It keeps getting ignored by the people who have a problem with the treatment
California Funds First Prisoner Sex-Reassignment Surgery and Move to Women's Prison
- Thread starter Horse Armour
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It keeps getting ignored by the people who have a problem with the treatment
John Kowalski
Banned
Tell me, what does your hope for gaf threads tell you?
Tax idea that idea this surgery is show how preventing productive resources is laughable.
No, again I wouldn't take issue with this if the other prisoners were taken care of adequately but they routinely aren't. Hence the question, why?
You all just seem obtuse.
I'n not stretching anything. I'm pointing out how psychotic you are. That's not even getting into how highly transphobic you are when you constantly repeat that our health care isn't essential, when you mock the trans communities suicide rates, when you go out of your way to misgender us, when you etc. etc. etc. I'm not going to mince words with pig-headed transphobes like you. Sorry not sorry.
Your fucking cost argument has already been debunked way earlier in this topic. Fucking read the topic.
HazySaiyan
Banned
And again, the mistreatment of other prisoners is a separate issue that needs remedying, but I don't know why that should matter in this particular case. It has no affect on whether she needs the surgery or not.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
You clearly do have a problem. For starters, you're misgendering a trans person in this very post.
I didn't know making sure we upheld some sort of standard for incarcerated people like the morally-just country we always position ourselves to be instead of treating them like they're in concentration camps was unproductive.
It's only bait when it's making an implication about character and motive. However, you actually misgendered the prisoner, and people are calling you out on it.
Cuz of course.
Coffee Dog
Banned
It's pretty amusing that you're like "yeah so some innocent people will get tortured in jail no big deal"
It's not acceptable as per the constitution, and it's not an efficient way for jails to run. Jails don't want their inmates killing themselves for a multitude of reasons.
GhostTrick
Banned
Well, I tried to bring that point. Then again, the treatment isn't the problem imo. The problem I think is the first person to benefit it is a convicted murderer. Not prisoners are the same, you don't serve time in prison for the same reason. That's the reason why there's a distinction between unlawful act into categories.
It's a good thing that sex-reassignement surgery is recognized as important and life saving for prisoners. But I feel like it's important to understand that some people might get hurt by the fact the first person to get it is a convicted murder as it is important for some people to realize that it's also an important thing and that hold a lot of values for trans people rights.
Then again, things aren't as simple and I'm not sure they have many demands or choices to afford chosing who deserved it more.
This isn't even getting into how jail is all about rehabilitation. Not about torture.
At the end of the day this shows how this country is hemorrhaging money because you care for the well being of a sadistic killer.
A convicted of first-degree murder, kidnapping and robbery for ransom....
I don't think you're quite aware what "bait" is. You already showed your transphobic, there is nothing to bait. That you refuse to address what you did and assify people that point it out as "setting bait" tells quite clear what you actually think.
That's quite a fucking ridiculous statement that shows you have no idea about how the economy, human rights and basic common sense works.
TheNefariousGamer
Member
It's not a luxury no matter how you slice it and that's why this is important. It's kind of a shame that this is such an extreme case, but this case is specifically really important to establish SRS as part of basic healthcare. It would be more convenient if this person wasn't a murderer, but it's important to set a precedent that these are the rules, and emotion and personal feelings don't impact how those rules are followed.
This situation comes down to two things: SRS is part of basic healthcare (in California), and all prisoners get basic healthcare. Arguing that this shouldn't have happened almost always boils down to arguing that one of these things shouldn't be the case.
...And then I noticed you called her "he" in the same paragraph that you said you have no problem with trans people. Be more careful about that, and if you're doing it out of spite of the murderer, please don't.
haha how's this for emotional and reactionary
Why does that matter? She was arbitrarily chosen because she needs it, it's a medical treatment, and the timing is right, and there's nothing to be gained by creating a hierarchy of prisoners. Just give the damn treatment to people.
Which is telling because she's serving a life sentence. She's already being punished. Makes you wonder how people really want prisoners to be treated (now that last sentence is def. bait.)
metalslimer
Member
Yeah the money we spend on sadistically killing foreigners is why our budget is fucked
There is no rehabilitating cold blood murder.
The prison system is an issue by at large. If this same system that isn't allowing diabetics to be fed proper meals is footing the bill for expensive non-threatening surgeries like this then the whole system needs to be uprooted and started over. You keep trying to make this a Trans witch hunt but its not, there needs to be more oversight on what is being spent on what. You all seem to be offended that most don't consider this surgery on the same plain as alot of other medical complications.
GhostTrick
Banned
Earthstrike
Member
Well, the constitution isn't. If you want to eliminate the idea that you cannot dish out cruel and unusual punishment, you can run as a republican for office and try to change the constitution. Let me know how that goes for you.
Get this B's out of here
1. We barely spend any money on prisons.
2. Looking at her crime, drug fuel rampage part doesn't make her a sadistic killer.
I can't believe people actually defend a killer. WTF.
And yes, it would make a difference if this person hadn't killed anyone.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
We care about human rights.
It's about supporting the principle, not the person. But you already know this. You just don't care.
Here, I'll even run the numbers.
California estimated tax revenue for 2016: 113.4 billion
20,000$ spent on someone
Total revenue cost:
0.000017% of the total budget
31,697,882 - population of california above age 18, legally employable and paying a tax in some sort of way
cost of this surgery per person:
0.0006 cents
This is what you transphobes are fighting over and inducing torture on someone over.
THOSE INGRATES BETTER NOT BE TAKING MY 0.0006 CENTS
A good test of humanity is being able to keep your ideals even when someone can easily be discarded. Absolutely nobody in this thread is defending the actual act of murder, and you know that.
1) Your stupid fucking expense argument has already been debunked......Numerous. fucking. times. in. this. thread. It's insanely cheaper than a lot of other proposed means that the money should be spent on.
2) It is essential. It is threatening not to have it. That you constantly mock our healthcare shows just how damn transphobic you are. We have had to repeat this to you numerous fucking times and you actively ignore the facts that medical professionals support and the trans community in this topic.
That you constantly ignore both of these points just shows how you're doing nothing BUT shitposting at this point. You can either engage and realize how fucking wrong you are on literally every front (and how transphobic you're being) or not. You have the power to choose that. You quite literally have no fucking leg to stand on. You keep on repeating the same transphobic drivel even when people address it.
metalslimer
Member
You realize many killers at some point get out of prison.
There's a reason the founding fathers added the 8th, and that reason is because emotional reactions and vengeance has no place in law. Less we forget stuff like the Salem Witch trials and how England treated their prisoners like they were playthings. If we claim ourselves as a civilized society, then we need to accept that everyone is a human and deserves to be treated with a basic level of human decency, what we call human rights. By treating them less than human, we cannot say we are a civilized society.
Nobody is defending a killer. People are defending motherfucking basic human rights.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
The question I quoted was "how does this affect me at all?" That's how it affects people, taxes, because It's state funded.
Then they can get the surgery when that happens. I believe this person is serving a life sentence with no parole.
They had basic human rights before they killed someone in cold blood. They deserve 3 hot meals, a cot and a clean living environment and medical necessary care.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228009357&postcount=1276
this surgery cost you less money than the time spent to pick up a penny off the ground.
metalslimer
Member
And this is considered necessary so get over it.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Yeah, that whole .0006 cents per taxpayer.
Given this stupid argument is thoroughly destroyed, and also stupid, I think some people are using it and the fact that she's a killer as cover to shit on trans rights.
It's so fucking obvious.
As we've established, this is needed care, and this track of thought also requires you the assume that everyone in jail isn't innocent, which is known to be untrue. Even if we were to excuse torture of those that murdered, you would, without a doubt, be doing this to people who were 100% innocent of the crime they supposedly committed.
All over less than a penny in tax money.
HazySaiyan
Banned
I'm not trying to do anything of the sort, I just don't understand why you draw the line at this procedure. I want a system that treats every inmates medical needs properly, not just some.
And it's not matter of offence, it's a matter of fact. SRS is a vital medical procedure that is supported by science and medical consensus. It doesn't matter what your feelings are on it.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
So what amount of money is the government allowed to spend before you're allowed to have an opinion on what they're spending on?
Also, I think the surgery is fine. I just think the dismissal of opinion because of this .0006 cents argument is dumb.
... Unless I'm dumb, none of these are guaranteed human rights in the US.
Ok, so someone has a differed opinion against the grain and immediately it's because we hate trans people. Sure buddy. I have my own opinion and I simply don't agree that this individual deserves to get a free operation that could go to a person that is free living out in the general public.
Or you know, provide it to both segments, but we don't because we're back to square one of people being convinced that medical care is a reward rather than a baseline service that should exist for the entire population.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Being a murderer doesn't stop you being a human. That's the point of human rights, that they're inalienable.
You keep on belittling our essential care as a luxury/elective/cosmetic despite us constantly pointing out the facts to you. And you keep on purposefully misgenering despite being corrected. It couldn't be anymore obvious how transphobic you're being here.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
You're allowed any opinion you wish to have, no matter how stupid and misinformed. Thankfully, you don't have the concurrent power to deny medically-defined necessary care because of that opinion, because that's unconstitutional.
Nothing is free in this world. Yes I go believe that if you do bad shit, you don't deserve to be rewarded for that.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Yeah, or they'd have had the surgery.
You misinterpret my character. I just think the argument of .0006 cents per taxpayer you're using to dismiss opinions is dumb.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Basic medical care isn't a reward.
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