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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 |OT| Got 99 Problems, But Sales Ain't One.

H

Heppell

Banned
what has happened to dedicated servers, i thought itsbeing supported?

Oh is 360 controller gamepad supported for the PC?
 
J

jedimike

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Nuketown is what it is. Small, hectic maps have always been in CoD and Nuketown is probably the best of them anyway.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Nuketown is just simple fun. I'm not even sure why someone would bring it up as an example of a poorly designed map. Its design is to be hectic. With that, Treyarch did a great job and there is a reason it always gets a 2nd play whenever it comes up in rotation.

I didn't think there were any bad maps in BLOPS. I liked them all. With MW2, I tended to have more of a love/hate relationship with the maps. I think a lot of it is more mental than anything else. If you have a map that you do poorly on and you get it stuck in your head that you don't do well on that map, you'll probably not like that map. Vice versa, if you get a map in your head and you believe you kick ass on that map, you'll do quite well.
 
J

jgminto

Member
I feel MW2 had more of a good/bad divide going on while BO had more average maps. BO didn't really have any stand outs for me. But I will say that BO has one of my most hated maps, Kowloon. What a fucking piece of shit.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Madtown_ said:
I'm not sure I'll take that guy's word for it at this point. With the damage other guns have, no one is going to use the M16 (all that's listed in that thread) if it doesn't kill with 3 hits/one burst. (I assume this means at close range)
Click to expand...

If it's not a one-burst kill:
1) either all guns will have reduced damage unlike we had previously thought, OR
2) it will be under-powered.[/quote]
It doesn't take long to fire two bursts. And if you get all the bullets from shot 1 one them, then you just need to either get a headshot, or land 1 more bullet from the next burst.

krameriffic said:
What? The 1887s had ridiculous range, and that's why they reduced it. Most of the time you didn't even need both barrels especially with stopping power.
Click to expand...
http://denkirson.xanga.com/715966769/modern-warfare-2/
They only reduced the range on dual 1887s. It was done because when firing both at once you just had to get 10 - 3 of the 16 pellets on them depending on how far away they were.

People had no issue with the spas-12's range because the tightness of the spread meant that you still had to be aiming competently to get them.

jedimike said:
My most used gun in BLOPS was the M16. I carried it all the way through and didn't mind prestiging because it was waiting for me right away on the other side. In BLOPS it wasn't a one-burst kill either. The advantage the M-16 had was range and accuracy.
Click to expand...

It was a one burst kill within the effective range and past that was a one burst kill for a headshot. It was basically like having a no sway sniper rifle.


I can't imagine IW putting more sway in it than Treyarch. IW's AR's felt like they were mounted on tripods compared to Treyarchs.
Click to expand...

FACT: In MW2, the only things that had sway were snipers, infrared scopes, and acogs. Assault Rifles had no sway and even with the acogs, IW balanced it a bit by making the really high recoil weapons (like the the F2000 and LSW) have no sway with acog sights.

FACT: In Black Ops, the only things that had sway were sniper rifles and infrared scopes. Seriously, treyarch was too dumb to remember the importance of putting sway on acog sights for low recoil weapons

FACT: In CoD4, the following had sway:
• All full-auto Assault Rifles besides the MP44 (which was fine because of its DPS and shitty iron sights)
• AK74u (they did this because the predictable recoil would have otherwise been TOO manageable)
• EVERYTHING THAT HAD AN ACOG SIGHT (this was evened out by the added aim-assist)
• All sniper rifles (unfortunately they should have switched the sway values between the R700 and M40A1)

_Alkaline_ said:
Nuketown is what it is. Small, hectic maps have always been in CoD and Nuketown is probably the best of them anyway.
Click to expand...
Nuketown is probably the best of them anyway.
Click to expand...
Name me one objectively good thing about nuketown.
 
L

LeMaximilian

Alligator F*ck House
I'll put my vote in that Afghan was easily my most favored map in MW2. Skidrow wasn't so bad either for the spas rage.
 
J

jedimike

Member
RJNavarrete said:
Crisis sucked ass.
Click to expand...

I'll give you that... and it's really a shame too because it has so much potential. The problem is that they created these really great gun areas with the house and the beach and then put a big ass rock in the middle. I wish they would have opened up the middle and made it more of a wasteland type map.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
rance said:
The concept and aesthetic were interesting. Would have been nice if it were bigger and not mindless.
Click to expand...
I should rephrase that then.

Gameplay wise, name one objectively good thing about it.

Hotel does the "two opposing houses" concept much more competently and I rarely, if ever, have to deal with random frags on small maps like Summit or Firing Range.
 
J

jedimike

Member
TestOfTide said:
FACT: In MW2, the only things that had sway were snipers, infrared scopes, and acogs. Assault Rifles had no sway and even with the acogs, IW balanced it a bit by making the really high recoil weapons (like the the F2000 and LSW) have no sway with acog sights.

FACT: In Black Ops, the only things that had sway were sniper rifles and infrared scopes. Seriously, treyarch was too dumb to remember the importance of putting sway on acog sights for low recoil weapons

FACT: In CoD4, the following had sway:
• All full-auto Assault Rifles besides the MP44 (which was fine because of its DPS and shitty iron sights)
• AK74u (they did this because the predictable recoil would have otherwise been TOO manageable)
• EVERYTHING THAT HAD AN ACOG SIGHT (this was evened out by the added aim-assist)
• All sniper rifles (unfortunately they should have switched the sway values between the R700 and M40A1)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're right so I'll chalk it up to recoil or faulty recollection. I just know that the AR's in MW2 were far more steady than BLOPS.

TestOfTide said:
Name me one objectively good thing about nuketown.
Click to expand...

It's small and hectic. That's about as objective as you can get. Subjectively I can tell you that it was a helluva lot of fun and offered a nice break from the redundancy of the other maps.
 
M

Madtown_

Member
TestOfTide said:
It doesn't take long to fire two bursts. And if you get all the bullets from shot 1 one them, then you just need to either get a headshot, or land 1 more bullet from the next burst.
Click to expand...
It takes far longer for the pause between bursts than it takes to fire an automatic weapon. Like I said, I'll be surprised if the game does 'have SP built-in' and the M16 is not 40-30 or 35-30. It simply wont be used.

For most people, the M16 in Black Ops feels like a two-burst kill even though it's 40-30, so reducing the damage further seems extreme to me. Doubt it.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
jedimike said:
It's small and hectic. That's about as objective as you can get.
Click to expand...
Small and hectic isn't objectively good when it means:

1) camping is more encouraged
2) random frags are more encouraged
3) there are certain killstreaks that are literally unavoidable & unstoppable if obtained by opponents.

Objectively good would be the interesting dynamic of the elevators on Hotel.
Objectively good would be the numerous forms of cover in the middle of the map on Bloc that keep it from being a sniper-fest.
Objectively good would be added paths created by the underground section of pipeline.


Madtown_ said:
It takes far longer for the pause between bursts than it takes to fire an automatic weapon. Like I said, I'll be surprised if the game does 'have SP built-in' and the M16 is not 40-30 or 35-30. It simply wont be used.

For most people, the M16 in Black Ops feels like a two-burst kill even though it's 40-30, so reducing the damage further seems extreme to me. Doubt it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but when I think of a gun that is "barely good", the M16 doesn't come to mind. I'm sure it probably feels not as overpowered in Black Ops when you have other assault rifles with no sway that deal high DPS even when silenced (there is a reason that in CoD4 the AK47 dropped to 20 damage at distance when using Red Dot or Silencer.
 
V

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
jgminto said:
I feel MW2 had more of a good/bad divide going on while BO had more average maps. BO didn't really have any stand outs for me. But I will say that BO has one of my most hated maps, Kowloon. What a fucking piece of shit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is probably my most-hated map in the series. I liked all the rest in that pack, though.
 
J

jgminto

Member
vatstep said:
Yeah, this is probably my most-hated map in the series. I liked all the rest in that pack, though.
Click to expand...
Stadium was great. Reminded me a lot of Sub Base.

Personally, my top MW2 map would be Scrapyard. I'd love to see that return in MW3 with the nerfed noobtoob. Then it would be perfect.
 
K

kuYuri

Member
TestOfTide said:
Sorry, but when I think of a gun that is "barely good", the M16 doesn't come to mind. I'm sure it probably feels not as overpowered in Black Ops when you have other assault rifles with no sway that deal high DPS even when silenced (there is a reason that in CoD4 the AK47 dropped to 20 damage at distance when using Red Dot or Silencer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, IW fucked up as usual. See: MW2 M9 silenced still making you show up as red dot on minimap.
 
K

Kronotech

Member
Amazing OP. So excited for this game but how the hell did the hardened edition sell out everywhere? Is it THAT much of a good deal? I actually wanted it for the DLC bonuses but alas...
 
M

Madtown_

Member
TestOfTide said:
Sorry, but when I think of a gun that is "barely good", the M16 doesn't come to mind. I'm sure it probably feels not as overpowered in Black Ops when you have other assault rifles with no sway that deal high DPS even when silenced (there is a reason that in CoD4 the AK47 dropped to 20 damage at distance when using Red Dot or Silencer.
Click to expand...
I understand this. But not even accounting for lag, which arguably affects burst weapons more, a 30-30 burst gun or something similar (30-25?) in a game where guns supposedly have SP built-in wont be used by many, even without sway. You're saying the gun will be worse in MW3 and still be used by many? I just can't imagine.

The M16 was great in CoD4 and MW2 because it dealt 40-30 AND people threw SP on top, making it a 2-hit kill. How many times did you die by people using M16's without SP? Not nearly as much as the automatics (at least in my case).
 
M

Madtown_

Member
Strider2K99 said:
Yeah, IW fucked up as usual. See: MW2 M9 silenced still making you show up as red dot on minimap.
Click to expand...
Or the silenced G3 knifing glitch.

Actually there's quite a few little things in CoD4 they missed. That and the M9 are most glaring though.
 
D

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
NukeTown was a great map when both teams played without spamming explosives. Seriously.

HardCore S&D will never be the same.
 
D

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
computers putin' said:
unless burst weapons get a substantial increase in rate of fire, they're gonna be useless.
Click to expand...
Hopefully it's a 1 headshot kill weapon, like the FAL. Isn't there also a weapon proficiency that gives bullets more power... kinda like stopping power?
 
J

jgminto

Member
dmg04 said:
Hopefully it's a 1 headshot kill weapon, like the FAL. Isn't there also a weapon proficiency that gives bullets more power... kinda like stopping power?
Click to expand...
That's shotguns only. You can get rapid fire for burst weapons though.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Strider2K99 said:
Yeah, IW fucked up as usual. See: MW2 M9 silenced still making you show up as red dot on minimap.
Click to expand...

Wait, are you calling it a fuck-up that IW didn't do this to the AK and TAR in MW2, or are you really not able to understand how important that decision was in keeping the AK47 from being cheap in CoD4.

The M9 silencer issue was the result of programming oversight just like the RDS being off center for the FAL and the MG4's iron sights being off-center. the AK47 RDS/silencer nerf in CoD4 was a deliberate way of making sure that the AK47 wasn't overpowered at range compared to other assault rifles. the fact that many people still liked using thos weapons with those attachments shows that it wasn't a bad move either.

And like I said, I bet that the M16 will still kill with one burst to the head, it's just that now it won't be a cheap one burst kill up close and you won't be able to easily snipe an easy head shot at a distance like you could in previous games.
 
M

Madtown_

Member
TestOfTide said:
Wait, are you calling it a fuck-up that IW didn't do this to the AK and TAR in MW2, or are you really not able to understand how important that decision was in keeping the AK47 from being cheap in CoD4.

The M9 silencer issue was the result of programming oversight just like the RDS being off center for the FAL and the MG4's iron sights being off-center. the AK47 RDS/silencer nerf in CoD4 was a deliberate way of making sure that the AK47 wasn't overpowered at range compared to other assault rifles. the fact that many people still liked using thos weapons with those attachments shows that it wasn't a bad move either.

And like I said, I bet that the M16 will still kill with one burst to the head, it's just that now it won't be a cheap one burst kill up close and you won't be able to easily snipe an easy head shot at a distance like you could in previous games.
Click to expand...
Most people had no idea they were any different. Heck, a lot of people thought that silencers inherently reduced damage, so they didn't notice the affect.

The TAR (and especially the AK) didn't need any nerfing in MW2. They were fine as it was. Most couldn't stand the TAR's recoil (which wasn't much really, but compared to other guns in MW2 it was) and the AK was a level 70 unlock without a clear niche. Many used the SCAR for what the TAR/AK could also be used. It has less recoil and good iron sights.

Lastly, if the M16 is not a one burst kill, which I doubt, it will kill will a burst to the head ONLY if all three bullets connect. That's a HUGE if, especially with lag and other factors such as players not standing still. If they change headshot multipliers though, all bets are off.
 
K

Khalifa Jayy

Banned
Radec said:
Anyone here get to nuked all maps ?
Click to expand...
Yessir.

Last count I had over 60 nukes. I managed a double nuke three times. My best string of nukes was five in four games. Scrapyard was, by FAR, the easiest map to Nuke.
 
DR3AM

DR3AM

Dreams of a world where inflated review scores save studios
watching that mw2 retrospective video brings back memories on how much the game sucked but it was still fun to play.
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Do we know if the gold deagle is in? I haven't heard anything about it.

Jarmel said:
Ok wait so you can import your COD career into MW3 and get Prestige tokens?

Also Nuketown was a shit map for so many reasons.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the maximum number of tokens you can get from each game is one, so it's a total of 4 from Waw, COD4, MW2 and black ops. MW3 gives you one token each time you prestige though.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Ok wait so you can import your COD career into MW3 and get Prestige tokens?

Also Nuketown was a shit map for so many reasons.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Madtown_ said:
Most people had no idea they were any different. Heck, a lot of people thought that silencers inherently reduced damage, so they didn't notice the affect.
Click to expand...
It worked as intended, and as a result, you didn't have the bullshit like in Black Ops, where the silenced ARs did equal damage per bullet at range as high 30-20 SMGs did within range.

It was deliberate. And the fact that no one was having trouble getting good scores with the AK-47 even with the Red Dot shows that it was a good decision. Without that nerf, the gun's low recoil and small sway would have meant those easy headshots (because the whole point of ARs was that could players could get consistent headshots with them) would completely negate any damage drop-off at range.

The entire point of the AK47 was that the gun was devasting within its 40 damage range, and its low rate of fire made it's recoil more easily manageable.

The TAR (and especially the AK) didn't need any nerfing in MW2. They were fine as it was.
Click to expand...
Are you really trying to argue that the assault rifles in MW2 didn't need nerfing? Do you think that IW put idle sway on the ARs in CoD4 by accident? It was deliberate because they found that the guns were otherwise overpowered. For example, they made the M4 Carbine have a slow, but large sway becasue it was a high RoF, low recoil gun (so much so infact that even with sway it was the easiest gun to get consistent headshots with at a distance.

Most couldn't stand the TAR's recoil (which wasn't much really, but compared to other guns in MW2 it was)nd the AK was a level 70 unlock without a clear niche.
That's because the gun had sway with any attachments added (it was infact the only instance that an assault rifle in MW2 had sway without an ACOG). Making it inferior to all the no sway ARs.Many used the SCAR for what the TAR/AK could also be used. It has less recoil and good iron sights.
Click to expand...

But all those guns still were more popular than all the LMGs and non-UMP SMGs because they all had low recoil and no sway, leading to more headshots, especially if you used the reduced flash of the silencers.

All you have to do is look at what they did in CoD4 to see, for the most part, how to balance the ARs.

Lastly, if the M16 is not a one burst kill, which I doubt, it will kill will a burst to the head ONLY if all three bullets connect. That's a HUGE if, especially with lag and other factors such as players not standing still. If they change headshot multipliers though, all bets are off.
Click to expand...
I'm saying that it probably was changed to a 30-20 (meaning you have to get the head for a one burst kill). The point of the gun is that it becomes exponentially better against players that aren't moving as much (such as campers) and even with the nerf that will hold true.


Sources for gun stats:
http://denkirson.xanga.com/632800688/call-of-duty-4/
http://denkirson.xanga.com/715966769/modern-warfare-2/
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Hail to the King baby.

If I'm looking for a linear super-scripted shooting gallery cranked up to 11 with perk based multiplayer there is only one place I look where that's a very, very good thing: Modern Warfare.

(QTEs still suck in any shooter though. Hopefully there are few if any in MW3.)

Been burned on blockbusters and pre-orders so I'll give it a week or two after release and check on impressions. With the brain drain to Infinity Ward I'm hoping this still retains the IW magic that World at War and Black Ops lacks. But the upgrades to Spec Ops and the thought of continuing the campaign are drawing me in.

Excellent OP too.
 
A

ajf009

Member
Mihael Mello Keehl said:
yea..the real question is are any of them the same?
Click to expand...


the challenges were completely useless in Black Ops, I enjoyed MW2's because of the titles and stuff I could keep..
 
DR3AM

DR3AM

Dreams of a world where inflated review scores save studios
does only one person need to buy cod elite for the clan rank up? if not, sign me up for the GAF clan
 
M

mickcenary

Member
Is there a reason why the logo in the main banners says: "WW3 (Warfare Warfare 3)"? Is this some in-gag that I'm just totally not in on?

EDIT: OOH! World War 3? Can I have a medal?
 
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