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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 |OT| Got 99 Problems, But Sales Ain't One.

It's a lot easier to not have problems when guns don't kill in a fraction of a second and stuff that could have otherwise led to problems is solved with a tie.

I'm sure halo has better servers, I'm just not sure it's the reason you don't see people rage in halo as much.
The guns do kill in a fraction of a second if you put the right settings. That's not something that contributes to good or bad netcode. Halo has hitscan weapons, which means that as soon as you pull the trigger, the bullet is where you aimed it. And it works, because the netcode is good.

And halo uses P2P, same as CoD, so that's not a factor either.
 
The Blackbird is the most overpowered killstreak in CoD history. In fact, was the main factor I got turned off of BO. No counters besides another killsteak? C'mon. It's a joke, just like the supposed gun 'balance' and PS3 porting team.

Like I said before, at least the MW games have variety to them. There is very little with Black Ops. Most skilled players ran an AR with Blackbird, CG, Dogs. Rinse and repeat, every. single. game.

Haha. Oh man. What world do you live is where Harriers didn't exist in MW2? And I find it hilarious that somehow Ghost and Blackbird are somehow both overpowered now. Not to mention it was just stated that only "good" players get Blackbirds. And let's all forget that Ghost Pro didn't counter motion sensors like Assassin does.

While I'm at it, I'll pretend "skilled" players don't mainly stick with Type95, Strikers, Dual FMG9s, and MP7. And if they did exist, their killstreaks are definitely not Predator Missile->Reaper->AC130.
 
The thing with MW3, though, is that "feeling like you're host" is a bad thing. When you get host in this game, it's like everyone is 2 full seconds ahead of you. You can never kill anyone you're not approaching from the back and everything instakills you.

It's true that the net has latched on to the term "lag compensation" too much, but that doesn't change the fact that this game has serious lag issues that it inherited from Black Ops, with whatever this new netcode is (which was probably introduced to facilitate theater mode). It's extremely disappointing to me, as I was hoping it would re-use the glorious netcode from MW2. :(

The thing is that those of us with good connections have the same experience as those with bad connections. This down averaging is messed up. I have no problem everyone having good network experience. I have a BIG problem if they bring those problems to everyone including those who never had the problem.


I'm not having the same experience. I find that the better my connection (I'm assuming that I'm hosting at least a portion of these) the better the game feels in terms of lag.

As far as MW2 having amazing netcode I think you guys are remembering the game with rose tinted glasses. I can't say for sure whether IW changed the netcode in MW3, but the number of bullshit moments I've had in one game doesn't seem to outweigh the number of those moments in the other. It's a real shame that IW doesn't actually comment on stuff like this because right now we're just left to debate this stuff based on our own experiences and there's a bunch of different factors in play that could vary those said experiences.
 

Madtown_

Member
Haha. Oh man. What world do you live is where Harriers didn't exist in MW2? And I find it hilarious that somehow Ghost and Blackbird are somehow both overpowered now. Not to mention it was just stated that only "good" players get Blackbirds. And let's all forget that Ghost Pro didn't counter motion sensors like Assassin does.

While I'm at it, I'll pretend "skilled" players don't mainly stick with Type95, Strikers, Dual FMG9s, and MP7. And if they did exist, their killstreaks are definitely not Predator Missile->Reaper->AC130.

The harrier can take the second spot. It's overpowered as well, but nothing like the blackbird. Harriers can be taken out very easily by a launcher, a predator, or with a perk. ONLY a killstreak counters a blackbird; very few people run CUAV. 3 good players on a team running blackbird-CG-Dogs, and there will be a BB in the air and dogs on the ground all game after the first one..Why? Because the first one is so OP everyone's game becomes 10X easier. The most effective way of succeeding when the enemies have a BB is to get one yourself, and I'd say that's a signal of an OP killstreak. The same can't be said for a Harrier. Get real.

Just because 'good' players were the ones getting blackbirds doesn't make them any less OP.
And what are you getting at there at the end? That there is one common killstreak set-up and a small selection of guns for "skilled" players in Mw3? If that's the case, you're flat wrong. There's a much greater variety in terms of weapons and streaks - that's clear. No one should compare BO and MW3 when it comes to variety for "skilled" players, and even non-skilled as well. It's simply not a comparison.
 
The harrier can take the second spot. It's overpowered as well, but nothing like the blackbird. Harriers can be taken out very easily by a launcher, a predator, or with a perk. ONLY a killstreak counters a blackbird; very few people run CUAV. 3 good players on a team running blackbird-CG-Dogs, and there will be a BB in the air and dogs on the ground all game after the first one..Why? Because the first one is so OP everyone's game becomes 10X easier. The most effective way of succeeding when the enemies have a BB is to get one yourself, and I'd say that's a signal of an OP killstreak. The same can't be said for a Harrier. Get real.

Just because 'good' players were the ones getting blackbirds doesn't make them any less OP.
And what are you getting at there at the end? That there is one common killstreak set-up and a small selection of guns for "skilled" players in Mw3? If that's the case, you're flat wrong. There's a much greater variety in terms of weapons and streaks - that's clear. No one should compare BO and MW3 when it comes to variety for "skilled" players, and even non-skilled as well. It's simply not a comparison.

Absolutely agree with you, but you forgot to mention the annoying glitch in MW2 where the harrier becomes impossible to shoot down making it even more similar to the blackbird.
 

Stantron

Member
In addition to counter spy plane, decoy grenades showed up as red arrows on an enemy blackbird radar in Black Ops. You ever play a full team with ScavengerPro/WarlordPro/Decoys? lol
 
The guns do kill in a fraction of a second if you put the right settings. That's not something that contributes to good or bad netcode. Halo has hitscan weapons, which means that as soon as you pull the trigger, the bullet is where you aimed it. And it works, because the netcode is good.

And halo uses P2P, same as CoD, so that's not a factor either.

Netcode, my bad.

Still:
- CoD uses hitscan too. It doesn't render bullet speed it just checks where you fired with where it has everyone else at the time you fired.
- CoD has sights that are pinpoint accurate, whereas Halo has an area represented by a reticle on the screen.
- I don't care about custom health modifiers in Halo, because I'm talking about the modes most people play, where everyone gets a fairly large amount of health (compared to CoD) that takes a lot more than 3-5 Assault Rifle bullets to kill, can't get OHK'd by a sniper unless hit with a hitshot, and just overall can't be killed by most weapons in less than 3 seconds of constant firing unless you get lucky or use melee, which made sure couldn't kill someone until they lost their shield. That allows things to be more even regardless of who's host.

Haha. Oh man. What world do you live is where Harriers didn't exist in MW2? And I find it hilarious that somehow Ghost and Blackbird are somehow both overpowered now. Not to mention it was just stated that only "good" players get Blackbirds. And let's all forget that Ghost Pro didn't counter motion sensors like Assassin does.

Yeah, ghost pro doesn't counter motion sensors, it just counters every other way being detected and makes you undetectable by killstreaks. It was only made worse by the fact silenced ARs were overpowered compared it everything else. But don't worry, thanks to the shittiness of ninja pro, nearly everyone was running with ghost pro, hacker pro, either either a silenced galil or a silenced famas. They sometimes even switch that silencer out for dual mags just so they don't have to give up that ghost pro for scavenger pro.

And the blackbird was overpowered. It's only counter was another killstreak because it was constant, effective on all enemies, and couldn't even be shot down. And to make matters worse, the only "counter" to the blackbird could be shot down easily with a single rocket.

Meanwhile Recon COULD be countered by Dead Silence, but people don't want to give up their marksman perk.
 

Madtown_

Member
Absolutely agree with you, but you forgot to mention the annoying glitch in MW2 where the harrier becomes impossible to shoot down making it even more similar to the blackbird.

Sometimes happened to the regular helicopter, too! I think I've seen it happen once or twice on Mw3, even.

And the blackbird was overpowered. It's only counter was another killstreak because it was constant, effective on all enemies, and couldn't even be shot down. And to make matters worse, the only "counter" to the blackbird could be shot down easily with a single rocket.

Didn't even think of this, either. Another good point.
 

Sushen

Member
I've tried AK47, G36c, and FAD today. I don't think I like G36c or FAD because they both have the characteristics of guns in MW3 like PP90 or MP7. They seem all very nice guns but I prefer guns with slower shooting speed. Actually, I'm liking AK47 for the opposite reason. It's going to be my second favorite next to ACR.
 

maomaoIYP

Member
Meanwhile Recon COULD be countered by Dead Silence, but people don't want to give up their marksman perk.

Recon can be countered by CUAV, or by simply not getting shot. Recon isn't unbalanced anyway, it only lasts for a few seconds. Dead Silence is an excellent counter to Sitrep Pro.
 
Sometimes happened to the regular helicopter, too! I think I've seen it happen once or twice on Mw3, even.

I run with LMG, blind eye and launchers all the time, and I can safely say that there are no "invincible air support" glitches. A few things I have noticed though that are great about MW3 (except for the second thing):

- Shooting the rudder of a helicopter counts as a hit, making it very easily to not waste any bullets when firing at a hind or AH6
- The helicopters only take one rocket but on rare occasions the rocket can miss if the helicopter starts quickly moving immediately after the rocket was fired
- It takes around half an LMG clip to take out a helicopter, and around two clips to take out an Osprey (without Blind Eye)
- AC-130 are still invincible to bullets, but reapers are not.
- You can use the flares of opposing escort airdrops to kill the people below it with a javelin.
 
The harrier can take the second spot. It's overpowered as well, but nothing like the blackbird. Harriers can be taken out very easily by a launcher, a predator, or with a perk. ONLY a killstreak counters a blackbird; very few people run CUAV. 3 good players on a team running blackbird-CG-Dogs, and there will be a BB in the air and dogs on the ground all game after the first one..Why? Because the first one is so OP everyone's game becomes 10X easier. The most effective way of succeeding when the enemies have a BB is to get one yourself, and I'd say that's a signal of an OP killstreak. The same can't be said for a Harrier. Get real.

Just because 'good' players were the ones getting blackbirds doesn't make them any less OP.
And what are you getting at there at the end? That there is one common killstreak set-up and a small selection of guns for "skilled" players in Mw3? If that's the case, you're flat wrong. There's a much greater variety in terms of weapons and streaks - that's clear. No one should compare BO and MW3 when it comes to variety for "skilled" players, and even non-skilled as well. It's simply not a comparison.

So if Blackbird is so OP, how is Ghost OP? You MW3 enthusiasts need to make up your mind. I like how you guys couldn't deny that Assassin Pro was worse than Ghost Pro so you switched it up to arguing about Blackbirds. But anyway, PLENTY of people used CUAVs in BO, much more so than in MW3. And as the other poster said, decoys also appear on the Blackbird. Plus the fact that getting a Harrier was literally 10 times easier to get than a Blackbird, I think the Blackbird should be a better killstreak anyway.

And yes, only guns skilled players use are ACR, Type95, FMGs, Striker, PP90, P90, and MP7. In Black Ops, there was Famas, Aug, AK47, Galil, Commando, 74u, MP5k, and L96. But I'm sure you guys still pretend 90% of Black Ops players used Famas. Yep.

And people wonder why MW3 is such a half-assed game. People eat it up despite its numerous flaws and deny they exist. Of course Black Ops had unsteady fps and worse-than-MW2 graphics, but you don't see any (sane) people denying that. I want to like MW3 more, but until it's PLAYABLE, I just can't. I didn't waste $100 just to point out the flaws of MW3, but people pretending the flaws don't exist are just baffling.
 
So if Blackbird is so OP, how is Ghost OP? You MW3 enthusiasts need to make up your mind. I like how you guys couldn't deny that Assassin Pro was worse than Ghost Pro so you switched it up to arguing about Blackbirds.

Actually we did fairly well by bringing up that Assassin Pro ---> Recon Pro is much fairer than Ghost Pro ---> Blackbird. One is a perk that you can choose as early as level 4 and is in itself fair for numerous reasons. The other is an 8 killstreak.


But anyway, PLENTY of people used CUAVs in BO, much more so than in MW3. And as the other poster said, decoys also appear on the Blackbird. Plus the fact that getting a Harrier was literally 10 times easier to get than a Blackbird, I think the Blackbird should be a better killstreak anyway.

THis isn't about MW2, this is about Black Ops and MW3. Yes, decoys appear on the blackbird, they appear as a "person" that for no reason is appearing and disappearing in synch with a random gunshot noise. So actually, blackbirds make decoys even easier to differentiate than they already were.

But even if you find people get at least a couple of counter spy planes in a match, you can just shoot them down easily because unlike in MW3, it only takes a few seconds to find a spy plane, especially when it's a counter spy plane that is closer to the ground than a regular one.

And yes, only guns skilled players use are ACR, Type95, FMGs, Striker, PP90, P90, and MP7. In Black Ops, there was Famas, Aug, AK47, Galil, Commando, 74u, MP5k, and L96. But I'm sure you guys still pretend 90% of Black Ops players used Famas. Yep.

How about you first show us your most used weapons in both black ops and MW3. I mean, surely with your claim about Black Ops having better weapon balance, you wouldn't be YET ANOTHER guy with their favorite weapon being either an assault rifle or the 74u, right?

You can find my CoD playercard by checking the GAF clan and clicking on the guy with the highest accuracy. You'll notice that my most used guns are shotguns and LMGs in both MW3 and Black Ops.
 
Netcode, my bad.

Still:
- CoD uses hitscan too. It doesn't render bullet speed it just checks where you fired with where it has everyone else at the time you fired.
- CoD has sights that are pinpoint accurate, whereas Halo has an area represented by a reticle on the screen.
- I don't care about custom health modifiers in Halo, because I'm talking about the modes most people play, where everyone gets a fairly large amount of health (compared to CoD) that takes a lot more than 3-5 Assault Rifle bullets to kill, can't get OHK'd by a sniper unless hit with a hitshot, and just overall can't be killed by most weapons in less than 3 seconds of constant firing unless you get lucky or use melee, which made sure couldn't kill someone until they lost their shield. That allows things to be more even regardless of who's host.
Even still, there isn't anything like people teleporting from behind corners, or getting shot behind corners, or your bullets just plain not registering as badly as CoD. I don't know what MW3 is doing wrong, but they're doing something.
 

Madtown_

Member
So if Blackbird is so OP, how is Ghost OP? You MW3 enthusiasts need to make up your mind. I like how you guys couldn't deny that Assassin Pro was worse than Ghost Pro so you switched it up to arguing about Blackbirds. But anyway, PLENTY of people used CUAVs in BO, much more so than in MW3. And as the other poster said, decoys also appear on the Blackbird. Plus the fact that getting a Harrier was literally 10 times easier to get than a Blackbird, I think the Blackbird should be a better killstreak anyway.

And yes, only guns skilled players use are ACR, Type95, FMGs, Striker, PP90, P90, and MP7. In Black Ops, there was Famas, Aug, AK47, Galil, Commando, 74u, MP5k, and L96. But I'm sure you guys still pretend 90% of Black Ops players used Famas. Yep.

And people wonder why MW3 is such a half-assed game. People eat it up despite its numerous flaws and deny they exist. Of course Black Ops had unsteady fps and worse-than-MW2 graphics, but you don't see any (sane) people denying that. I want to like MW3 more, but until it's PLAYABLE, I just can't. I didn't waste $100 just to point out the flaws of MW3, but people pretending the flaws don't exist are just baffling.
Who is 'you guys'? I haven't spoken a word about Ghost being OP. Try again.

And try not putting everyone who is arguing with you in the same boat, calling someone who disagrees with you a MW3 enthusiast because he's explaining to you why a Black Ops killstreak is OP, is absurb.

I didn't "switch" the topic, I mentioned the blackbird because the thought crossed my mind. that's all, stop reading more into it than you ought to.
Have a good one.
 
Actually we did fairly well by bringing up that Assassin Pro ---> Recon Pro is much fairer than Ghost Pro ---> Blackbird. One is a perk that you can choose as early as level 4 and is in itself fair for numerous reasons. The other is an 8 killstreak.




THis isn't about MW2, this is about Black Ops and MW3. Yes, decoys appear on the blackbird, they appear as a "person" that for no reason is appearing and disappearing in synch with a random gunshot noise. So actually, blackbirds make decoys even easier to differentiate than they already were.

But even if you find people get at least a couple of counter spy planes in a match, you can just shoot them down easily because unlike in MW3, it only takes a few seconds to find a spy plane, especially when it's a counter spy plane that is closer to the ground than a regular one.



How about you first show us your most used weapons in both black ops and MW3. I mean, surely with your claim about Black Ops having better weapon balance, you wouldn't be YET ANOTHER guy with their favorite weapon being either an assault rifle or the 74u, right?

You can find my CoD playercard by checking the GAF clan and clicking on the guy with the highest accuracy. You'll notice that my most used guns are shotguns and LMGs in both MW3 and Black Ops.

Ghost Pro is countered by motion sensors. Assassin Pro counters more, including motion sensors.

Most used weapon of mines in Black Ops:
1) Commando-8,213 kills
2) Ak47-7,685 kills
3) Galil-4,468 kills
4) Famas-3,230 kills
5) PM63-2,612 kills

74u is at 1529 kills. Which is lower than my 1,593 M60 kills. Famas is 4th most used simply because it's unlocked much faster than my two favorite weapons, the Commando and Ak47.

MW3
1)FAD-1,379 kills
2)SCAR-1,221
3)P90-1,208 kills
4)PP90-1,104 kills
5)ACR- 1,093 kills

I'm more of an Assault Rifle guy, so using the fact that I used them in BO is irrelevant. The maps in BO suited them more as well since there were a lot of areas you could aim down, unlike in MW3 where SMGs are the kings. Even in MW3 I use an AR the most. Type95 is at 588 kills, Striker at 21 kills, and FMGs at 71 kills.
 
Ghost Pro is countered by motion sensors. Assassin Pro counters more, including motion sensors.

Most used weapon of mines in Black Ops:
1) Commando-8,213 kills
2) Ak47-7,685 kills
3) Galil-4,468 kills
4) Famas-3,230 kills
5) PM63-2,612 kills

74u is at 1529 kills. Which is lower than my 1,593 M60 kills. Famas is 4th most used simply because it's unlocked much faster than my two favorite weapons, the Commando and Ak47.

MW3
1)FAD-1,379 kills
2)SCAR-1,221
3)P90-1,208 kills
4)PP90-1,104 kills
5)ACR- 1,093 kills

I'm more of an Assault Rifle guy, so using the fact that I used them in BO is irrelevant. The maps in BO suited them more as well since there were a lot of areas you could aim down, unlike in MW3 where SMGs are the kings. Even in MW3 I use an AR the most. Type95 is at 588 kills, Striker at 21 kills, and FMGs at 71 kills.

A better way to prove which game has better weapon diversity would be to show which weapon you've been most killed by in each game. Though I'm not sure MW 3 records that stat :(
 

Madtown_

Member
So if Blackbird is so OP, how is Ghost OP? You MW3 enthusiasts need to make up your mind. I like how you guys couldn't deny that Assassin Pro was worse than Ghost Pro so you switched it up to arguing about Blackbirds.
This discussion on blackbirds started when you mentioned that Black Ops had killstreak balance, which is completely absurd due to the blackbird, which I mentioned. If you don't believe me, check it out.

I haven't spoken a word about Ghost.

But anyway, PLENTY of people used CUAVs in BO, much more so than in MW3. And as the other poster said, decoys also appear on the Blackbird. Plus the fact that getting a Harrier was literally 10 times easier to get than a Blackbird, I think the Blackbird should be a better killstreak anyway.
CUAVs can be taken down with a killstreak at 5? kills, and a launcher and as TestOfTide mentioned, it's not exactly difficult.
And also, now you agree that blackbirds are more OP than harriers? Because that's what I was saying before, when you seemed to disagree.
And because they're harder to get, they should be remarkably OP? So the chopper gunner in black ops ought to be invincible, right? Because it's 100X harder to get than the CG in Mw2? (Answer: no, it's not hard to get when you have a blackbird)

And yes, only guns skilled players use are ACR, Type95, FMGs, Striker, PP90, P90, and MP7. In Black Ops, there was Famas, Aug, AK47, Galil, Commando, 74u, MP5k, and L96. But I'm sure you guys still pretend 90% of Black Ops players used Famas. Yep.
I don't know what you consider a skilled player, but my buddy and I use a variety. Heck, I am on a 45 FFA win streak using the UMP and PP90 right now.

The thing about those guns mentioned in Black Ops is that they are all nearly the same. Famas and Aug have the same firerate and damage, same with the ak47 and commando. They are different skins over the same gun. In my short time with Black Ops, I died most by the 74u, then famas, then galil. I'd bet >50% of people have the same top 3, if not 75%.

As someone else mentioned, two SMGs were commonly used, both of which happen to be 40-20 damage. The others are left in the dust at 30-20 or something.
In Mw3, I could make a case for any of the SMGs in one scenario or another. My second most used gun after 12,000 kills is the Mp5.


And people wonder why MW3 is such a half-assed game. People eat it up despite its numerous flaws and deny they exist. Of course Black Ops had unsteady fps and worse-than-MW2 graphics, but you don't see any (sane) people denying that. I want to like MW3 more, but until it's PLAYABLE, I just can't. I didn't waste $100 just to point out the flaws of MW3, but people pretending the flaws don't exist are just baffling.
Where have I "denied the numerous flaws' existence"? Because I don't see it. I haven't been host, so I can't comment on the host disadvantage that others say exists, and since upgrading my connection my games have been much less laggy. That's all I said, and if that's denying flaws.. oops.
 
Ghost Pro is countered by motion sensors. Assassin Pro counters more, including motion sensors.

No, Ghost Pro counters more, to the point that the lack of ghost in the express playlist led to people feeling unable to avoid death by air support. That's why blind eye being its own perk made assassin so much less cheap. And thanks to support and the points system, people don't even need to get a kill-streak to counter assassin, they just need to get 10 points total for a drone, or 12 for a remote turret.

Most used weapon of mines in Black Ops:
1) Commando-8,213 kills
2) Ak47-7,685 kills
3) Galil-4,468 kills
4) Famas-3,230 kills
5) PM63-2,612 kills

74u is at 1529 kills. Which is lower than my 1,593 M60 kills. Famas is 4th most used simply because it's unlocked much faster than my two favorite weapons, the Commando and Ak47.

I'm more of an Assault Rifle guy, so using the fact that I used them in BO is irrelevant.

Oh look, your top 4 weapons are ARs. Tell, me did you ever even use the RPK.

1) Olympia - 15636 kills
2) Stakeout - 7902 kills
3) SPAS-12 - 2111 kills
4) RPK - 1334 kills
5) M14 - 1117 kills

Oh course, the top 3 weapons I am killed by are the Famas, Galil, and 74u, which I have used for a combined total of 656 kills.

And don't give me the whole "I'm an AR user" shpeel. That just tells me that you only use ARs and sometimes SMGs in both games, which means that you claim to know how balanced the weapons in both games are even though you pretty much just use the 2 most commonly used classes.

MW3
1)FAD-1,379 kills
2)SCAR-1,221
3)P90-1,208 kills
4)PP90-1,104 kills
5)ACR- 1,093 kills

Further proves my point.

1) USAS12 - 14610 kills
2) L86 LSW - 3042 kills
3) MK46 - 2742 kills
4) PKP Pecheneg - 2637 kills
5) Model 1887 - 2058 kills

I'm more of an Assault Rifle guy, so using the fact that I used them in BO is irrelevant.

The maps in BO suited them more as well since there were a lot of areas you could aim down, unlike in MW3 where SMGs are the kings. Even in MW3 I use an AR the most. Type95 is at 588 kills, Striker at 21 kills, and FMGs at 71 kills.

Oh come on. If I can get lots of kills with LMGs on these maps, you can get kills with Assault Rifles. The maps suck, but that has more to do with the fact that the designers weren't thinking about spawns when they designed the maps.

Tell me, did you at least use all the different weapon classes in CoD4, where everything that wasn't a shotgun was perfectly viable (and shotguns were kinda usable if you knew how to avoid the riskier areas)?
 
When it comes to weapon and perk balance, MW3 isn't much better than the other CoD's ( not including MW2 of course ) MW3 does manage to make most of the weapons viable choices here, something Black ops didn't do, but for every weapon that was useless in Black ops there is one that is overpowered in MW3 ( including most of the secondaries ).

Perk balance between the MW3 and Black Ops is mostly equal to me. Black ops actually had a decent alternative to Ghost in Flak Jacket. In objective modes Flak Jacket was actually a better choice and tbh I saw more people roll with Flak Jacket rather than Ghost. Other than that I do think MW3 has a more competitive selection of perks, so in that regard its more " balanced", but I feel the perks in MW3 aren't balanced in the sense that they may be too effective. Perks like Recon, Assassin, Stalker, Marksman, Steady Aim, Sitrep, all just have to much of an effect on players. In some instances these perks have changed certain facets of the game completely( Stalker and Recon immediately come to mind ). Granted, Second chance had a similar effect in Black ops and so did Stopping Power and Juggernaut in CoD4, it's just that there is more of these type of perks in MW3. I just don't think perks shouldn't have the augmentative effect they presently have.

Maybe what I said sounds ridiculous to some of you, I dunno, really I'm just thinking out loud (erm, typing out loud) lol. To me, I just don't think you can champion one game in this series as more balanced than the other; each entry has it's own share of issues.

A better way to prove which game has better weapon diversity would be to show which weapon you've been most killed by in each game. Though I'm not sure MW 3 records that stat :(

I don't what weapons you're killed by are displayed, but you can check your k/d with each weapon, and I suppose that would be the next best thing if you've used most of the weapons for a while.

edit: Now that I've thought about it more, MW3 has the better weapon balance by a good margin .In Black ops most of the guns outside of the AR's were horrible.
 
Oh look, your top 4 weapons are ARs. Tell, me did you ever even use the RPK.

1) Olympia - 15636 kills
2) Stakeout - 7902 kills
3) SPAS-12 - 2111 kills
4) RPK - 1334 kills
5) M14 - 1117 kills

Oh course, the top 3 weapons I am killed by are the Famas, Galil, and 74u, which I have used for a combined total of 656 kills.

And don't give me the whole "I'm an AR user" shpeel. That just tells me that you only use ARs and sometimes SMGs in both games, which means that you claim to know how balanced the weapons in both games are even though you pretty much just use the 2 most commonly used classes.



Further proves my point.

1) USAS12 - 14610 kills
2) L86 LSW - 3042 kills
3) MK46 - 2742 kills
4) PKP Pecheneg - 2637 kills
5) Model 1887 - 2058 kills



For fucks sake, If I can get lots of kills with LMGs on these maps, you can get kills with Assault Rifles. The maps suck, but that has more to do with the fact that the designers weren't thinking about spawns when they designed the maps.

Tell me, did you at least use all the different weapon classes in CoD4, where everything that wasn't a shotgun was perfectly viable (and shotguns were kinda usable if you knew how to avoid the riskier areas)?


Tell me, have you ever used the PM63? I've used every class in every game. SPAS, M60, L96 in Black Ops. Models, Barrett, and PKP in MW3. Even said so it my last post. I never got a chance to enjoy COD4 since I did not have a 360/PS3 at that time. But by your wonderful logic, you only use shotguns and LMGs, which means you know nothing about the ARs and SMGs, right? I don't like shotguns and I don't like LMGs. I've tried and they just aren't my cup of tea. I'm not going to stop using ARs just because people like you complain because people use a gun you don't like. I don't like running slow, so I dislike LMGs. I don't like the play style of shotguns, so I don't usually use them. Not even when SPAS and Models were destructive in MW2. It has nothing to do with the fact that those two classes have been neglected in the last two Call of Duty games.
 

eek5

Member
I'm the only one that liked the spectre? lol

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and my mw3:

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Kentpaul

When keepin it real goes wrong. Very, very wrong.
ah shit, getting COD fever.

thinking of picking this up friday.

is it better than blops ? and will the PC players tear me a new one ? (i'm used to playing cod on consoles)
 

PaulSancheezzee

Neo Member
My buddy just gave me his Founder code since he signed up for elite day 1. Do I need to enter my Elite Premium membership first then the Founder code? And can I do this via the xbox live website?
 

Marco1

Member
I just started playing, what weapon should I start levelling up as my primary weapon?
Also what perks are the best to use?
Thanks.
 

Sushen

Member
In the same sense with Assassin Pro, all suppressed guns should be reconsidered too. Especially with MW3 and kill confirmed that tends to gather people in one area of the map, it's essential tool unless you want all enemies to come after you once you drop one. It's the opposite of Stopping Power having the same effect.
 
Why does the CM901 not get more credit? Stayed away from it through all ten prestiges. Just tried it and it's pretty damn good with kick and a silencer.
 
Tell me, have you ever used the PM63?

You think the idea of using an underused gun wasn't appealing to me, of course I tried out the PM63. Unfortunately, 30-20 damage and a 20 round clip is only usable in black ops if you are host, otherwise you find that half of your bullets will disappear thanks to netcode that is much worse than MW3 netcode (as shown in the kill-cams with the slower and less consistent rate of fire).

I mostly tried getting good kills with the Uzi, but for some reason Treyarch thought that a 30-20 SMG having 32 rounds would be overpowered unless it was combined with really bad sights and high recoil. The spectre was usable thanks to it's 30 round round clip, medium recoil, and good sights, but even that SMG couldn't do well against an AR because of the way the shitty netcode worked.

I've used every class in every game. SPAS, M60, L96 in Black Ops. Models, Barrett, and PKP in MW3. Even said so it my last post.

What you said in your last post was that you avoided the striker, type 95, and FMGs. My point was that you there are more than enough sections for taking a more long range role in almost all of the maps (exception being dome). The maps don't have to have as much wide open space as Hazard. The LMGs in MW3 are designed for overlooking a choke-point and the AR can somewhat do that role. Every single one of these maps (except dome) has blatant choke points that give longer range weapons an advantage.

I never got a chance to enjoy COD4 since I did not have a 360/PS3 at that time. But by your wonderful logic, you only use shotguns and LMGs, which means you know nothing about the ARs and SMGs, right?

Actually, I mostly use whatever I see no one else using. The PM9 has a better reload, has better range, and fires at a faster rate than the PP90M1. It makes the SMG BETTER at using hipfire than the PP90M1. But everyone ignores it because it's pretty much impossible to use in anything past its effective range.
The CM901 is a really high recoil gun that requires kick because unlike the LMGs you can't use crouch or prone to reduce the recoil significantly.
Ak47 is a lot like LMGs in the sense that most of the recoil is just a visual gunkick.
The G36 has really hard to use sights and the recoil is pretty high if you don't put kick on the gun.

But thing with ARs and SMGs is that there hundreds, if not thousands, of videos that show people how those guns are meant to be used, while the same quite true of LMGs and Shotguns. Those guns are all about twitch regardless of distance, where the ARs kill faster at medium-long range while the SMGs kill faster at short-medium range (short range when using a silencer). A shotgun style is about using the walls, corners, rooms, and cover to keep all your engagements within your shotgun's effective range. And as I said before, LMGs are about overlooking a choke point and being able to easily take out 5-6 guys in a row coming through a choke point without reloading. Snipers are the only class I'm not that apt on, mainly because I'm not a quickscoper and I don't like having to go even more defensive than I would with an LMG.

And in CoD4, I used pretty much everything. My favorite guns were the Mini-Uzi silenced, M14 w/Red Dot, RPD w/grip, and RPD w/ACOG. I found that in that game it was ridiculously easy to get headshot kills with a silenced M4 while the shotguns were not only at a disadvantage but a pain in the ass to complete the expert challenges for. The Skorpion was well balanced because while it had pretty much no recoil or sway and a high rate of fire it had only 20 rounds per mag and did 20 at all but really close range. In that game the only guns that were overpowered were the M16 and M40 w/ACOG.

The problem with black ops (and MW2) was the lack of sway. When you don't put sway on assault rifles, they become insanely overpowered. Black Ops made things even worse in that regard by making ARs and the 74u the only low recoil guns with decent damage.

MW3 solved that shit by putting sway on almost everything. It's not the perfect solution (and certain guns need some recoil added to them, such as the MP7 and silenced ARs), but it's still much better than the shit you had in Blops, because at the very least if you don't want to use an AR there are lots of options.

I don't like shotguns and I don't like LMGs. I've tried and they just aren't my cup of tea. I'm not going to stop using ARs just because people like you complain because people use a gun you don't like.

My complaint was more to do with the fact that out of the 5 (six if you count the riot shield), classes you could try, you mostly tried two and then asserted that because there is more cover to use the SMGs are at an unfair advantage (even though what is making the MP7 cheap is the fact that it is too good at long range) when the truth is that in Black Ops and MW2 the ARs were at an unfair advantage and you don't like that ARs aren't as easy to use as they were in those two games.


I don't like running slow, so I dislike LMGs. I don't like the play style of shotguns, so I don't usually use them. Not even when SPAS and Models were destructive in MW2. It has nothing to do with the fact that those two classes have been neglected in the last two Call of Duty games.

First off, if you couldn't do well with the spas in MW2, then you simply didn't know how to use shotguns. Second, the point of LMGs was always supposed to be that you move less and aim more, but that didn't work in MW2 and Black ops because ARs were better than LMGs at every range. At least in MW3 you can utilize stuff like rapid fire for mid-range superiority and go crouching or prone for long range superiority.
 
ARs aren't easy to use? The M4A1, CM901, Type 95, ACR and SCAR, not to mention the FAD are all very easy to use guns. I have never once had an issue with any of those guns. The only serviceable SMGs to me are the PP90A1 and the MP7. The P90 isn't bad, but it's horrid before you get kick. MP5, I see a lot of users, but I haven't tried it yet. I will later.

LMGs are also not my forte. I don't like moving that slow. Period. Shotguns are alright. the USAS and Striker are both good. Striker is pretty overpowered at any set-up though, and the USAS only is when you use range+extended mags or damage.
 

DRE Fei

Member
Weapon balance in this game is no different from the previous 4 CODs.

1. Assault rifles rule the game, but not as much this time because of the maps

2. One SMG (MP7) clearly stands above everything else in the class. COD4 had the MP5, Waw had the MP40, MW2 had the UMP and Blops had the AK74u.

3. They still can't figure out what the fuck to do with the LMGs

4. Snipers get dominated by all of the above

5. As for the Shotguns, well what can I say? You might as well get rid of everything but the Striker in this game. Spas12/1887/KSG requires a good connection, which this game does not have. FMG9 is practically the best shotgun anyway, without even being a shotgun. And it's a secondary! What a joke.


When you have this ridiculously long list of weapons in a game, you're gonna have winners and losers. That's just the sad fact. The only way to reduce the disparity would be to shorten the weapon list, but this game is about gun porn, so it won't happen. They've done a decent job with the ARs and SMGs, which I think is why most people use them. At least there's nothing that's particularly bad except maybe the PM9.

As for the perks, I like them for the most part. They're all really good except for overkill and blast shield, with assassin standing out. They insist on bringing back these stupid heartbeat sensors and now they've added the most overpowered motion sensor ever, so they had to create a strong perk to counter it. If you want to rush around the map, you have to use assassin to protect from all the support uav spam. At least it doesn't protect from lethal killstreaks, otherwise it would be just as dumb as ghost. In blops 2, they need to split that shit up like assassin.
 

Madtown_

Member
2. One SMG (MP7) clearly stands above everything else in the class. COD4 had the MP5, Waw had the MP40, MW2 had the UMP and Blops had the AK74u.

Agree with some of your points, but not this one. The Ak74u in CoD4 was even with the MP5.
Even in Mw2, the vector and Mp5k had niches. Absolute close range combat, UMP was the worst of the bunch. Medium-long range or non-SP, and the UMP was king, but when you're running a SMG you shouldn't care nearly as much about the longer ranges.
 
As for the perks, I like them for the most part. They're all really good except for overkill and blast shield, with assassin standing out.

Blast shield is plenty nice in game modes like demo. Overkill depends on preference. I wouldn't say either is particularly bad.
 
Weapon balance in this game is no different from the previous 4 CODs.

1. Assault rifles rule the game, but not as much this time because of the maps

But they didn't rule that much in CoD4. There were numerous ways that ARs didn't have the upper hand in that game once your got past their effective range the LMGs and Snipers had the upper hand. The M16 was overpowered though. They should have put sway on the M16 in CoD4.

2. One SMG (MP7) clearly stands above everything else in the class. COD4 had the MP5, Waw had the MP40, MW2 had the UMP and Blops had the AK74u.

MP5 had high recoil in CoD4 making it suck at long range compared to almost everything else. In-fact the 74u was better than the MP5 in every way except for the hipfire penalty for using a RDS or silencer (which it didn't have in black ops) and idle sway (also not in black ops).

3. They still can't figure out what the fuck to do with the LMGs

No, they knew what to do in CoD4. There the LMGs did more damage per second than ARs at all ranges and had no sway. In MW3 the LMG advantages include:

- silencers don't affect damage as much
- less sway and recoil than ARs if you are lying prone (comparable to the MP7's accuracy)
- ability to use rapid fire to deal more damage per second than ARs
- ammo for killing a wave of enemies, killing someone behind a wall (like that one in village) and taking out air support without a launcher
- can use any attachment other than the variable scope, hybrid sight (which sucks so who cares), and grenade launcher.
- better penetration (not sure how much but at the very least you can get better shots through enemies)

In-fact the only buff that the LMGs really need is more ranged damage (24, 33, 33, 33, 35 with 1.1 body shot multiplier instead of 20, 25, 25, 25, 30 with no multiplier) to solidify their dominance at long range.

5. As for the Shotguns, well what can I say? You might as well get rid of everything but the Striker in this game.

Nah, they need to nerf the striker (by reducing ranged damage to 5)and change the way the damage is on other shotguns without damage or range and/or increase the pellet count without mags. The USAS with range and mags can get 2-4 hit long-shots across the map right now. The model 1887 can get a OHK at any range it can get a hitmarker, so the slow RoF makes sense. I'd even go as far as to say that once you get any shotgun to level 26, it's not bad at all (except for the AA-12 without the specialist package), the problem is when range isn't even unlocked yet.


Blast shield is plenty nice in game modes like demo. Overkill depends on preference. I wouldn't say either is particularly bad.

Blast Shield Pro needs to be completely immune to all special grenades or resistant to CUAVs and EMPs. Overkill doesn't work because snipers can just choose an OP secondary. Seriously, they need to nerf the secondaries in this game. Secondaries are supposed to suck. You can give them variety but in nearly every situation they should be inferior to primary weapons (except that the M320 GL should be better than the under-barrel GL since you can't replenish either of them).
 

Radec

Member
I feel really bad on enemies calling out Advance UAVs. I shoot it down in like 5secs. Much earlier on Cobras and Strafe Run(my favorite KS to shoot down). And sometimes Care Package heli (before or after it drops the package)

AUAVs should be a 2-hits kill, it is bigger than a UAV/CUAV so it is much easier to see in the air and destroy.
 

PaulSancheezzee

Neo Member
I followed those steps but receive a message saying
"WE'RE SORRY. Your code is good to go, but we're not. Please come back again later."
I read in a forum that I may need to wait a day or two for confirmation of 'elite premium status' before trying again.

Thanks for the link though. Appreciate the response.
 

VALKYRAY

Banned
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