Support NeoGAF

[GreatnessRD]

But, for me, console AAA exclusives is still has to stay exclusive to the console to give more importance, attractiveness and relevance to the console.

Please don't make me cuss you out like I did that Dev talking this goofy shit. Exclusives are dead. Bring that smoke to PC and on Steam so I can get my Playstation games and play them how they are meant to be played! With all the frames and all the graphics! Console players gonna buy the game regardless of exclusivity. Only meatballs champion this gatekeeping bullshit. Don't be a meatball.

 

[ecosse_011172]

This thread:

 

[PeteBull]

Consoles (mainline) are still best value/for money black box that takes 5 minutes to setup without any technical knowledge and play games that doesn't tell you "fuck off" every now and then, especially on budget hardware.
It's optimal point of price, value for money, easy of use, comfort of play and actual quality of the games. PC can be better in some of them being significantly worse in others, but sweet spot is unreachable for it.


Ps5pro is enthusiast level hardware. It's not mass market product base PS5 targets.


Digital only when you own nothing.


Paying for online is not mandatory. Majority of console players doesn't pay - Fortnite is free to play online and SP games doesn't need any.


And PC doesn't have any of its own. All PC players can do is sit, wait and hope. And occasionally beg for port of Bloodborne

It's funny how PC players call themselves Master race, but in reality treated as 2nd class citizen by almost everyone - Jensen "please pay x2", publishers "please wait in this special line for an year and maybe, ~maybe~ you'll be allowed to get in", devs "game works like crap? Buy better PC"

U can look at price of the console hardware in a vacum, ps5/xsx are outdated af in 2025 already and they are barely cheaper from entry lvl pc, or are they?
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/xsvtfd 550€ including shipping, obviously those parts are low end but work fine/up to specs, are dirt cheap too

meanwhile best value in gaming:

https://www.coolblue.de/en/product/941835/playstation-5-slim-disc-edition.html?srsltid=AfmBOorrK5aXiL1PeoLtYNfEuCYnp6hac3SkZkHdiTiAfxtk37oP_WXw

ps5 slim, with discdrive is sitting at 21€ less so 529€ to the dot.
So we know that already, value proposition is already out of the window...

Only thing playstation still has is ease of play(not crazy difference but gotta give advantage to consoles here) and very rare high quality exclusives, will it have even those exclusives come holidays 2027/2028 when ps6 launches tho?

 

[Gaiff]

It's funny how PC players call themselves Master race, but in reality treated as 2nd class citizen by almost everyone - Jensen "please pay x2", publishers "please wait in this special line for an year and maybe, ~maybe~ you'll be allowed to get in", devs "game works like crap? Buy better PC"

A console user made this thread and PCMR is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to have some form of inferiority complex going. Those are just gaming systems. It's not that serious.

 

[Sentenza]

Fuck pc slave race, here I said it.

You surely did, and I bet it's not even your most stupid post of the day.

 

[willothedog]

Jensen alone pushed console sales more than anyone else with his stupid pricing

A win-win for him, all the Switch sales and 90% of the dGPU PC market.

 

[Wildebeest]

Not as terrible a question as it might seem. The release of Black Myth Wukong just might have kickstarted the adoption of consoles in China, the largest global market and the largest potential growth market for console gaming. I can't see the Chinese devs risking the development of that game without the large established PC gaming market in China.

 

[Kacho]

Can PCMR indirectly strengthen the Console industry?

For me yes , 1st on the technical side in games development with very good tools and processes in PC game development that can be use for console game development.
And 2nd, those with PC will be attracted to buy console due to its cheaper alternative, well optimize game, flexibility, comfort on a sofa and playing in front of a very big TV, and ease of use.

But, for me, console AAA exclusives is still has to stay exclusive to the console to give more importance, attractiveness and relevance to the console.

So if I understand his thesis correctly, PC gaming has great tools and processes, therefore consoles still need exclusives and a comfy couch?

 

[reinking]

Typical pcmr
First PC is 1971, first console is 1972, Pong is 1972. So no - PC gaming wasn't "a thing" before existence of consoles

My bad. I meant to put since not sure why I put before. You win an internet cookie. The point is, PC gaming is not a new invention. BTW, I am a console gamer for the most part. No PCMR here. Just an old dude that sometimes types faster than his brain thinks.

 

[drganon]

 

[rodrigolfp]

flexibility, comfort on a sofa and playing in front of a very big TV

PC directly strengthen console gaming. Where do you think CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, OSs, render tech, etc comes from???

 

[ecosse_011172]

Not that I have any idea what most of the posts in this thread are but I'd like to point out that you can have PC gaming on a sofa with a big TV and controller.
I built my gaming PC in an HTPC case and it's connected the same way as the consoles are.
It still has the downside of PC gaming but it is possible.

 

[Felessan]

A console user made this thread and PCMR is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to have some form of inferiority complex going. Those are just gaming systems. It's not that serious.

It's not serious, it's funny
I have a strong analytical mind and it's very... Interesting to see typical PC fans blablabla about PC superiority only to be abused by almost everyone.
I have my own PC with 7900XTX in it, that I play PC centric games (shooters, MMO etc) but I feel zero empathy to PCMR crowd.

My bad. I meant to put since not sure why I put before. You win an internet cookie. The point is, PC gaming is not a new invention. BTW, I am a console gamer for the most part. No PCMR here. Just an old dude that sometimes types faster than his brain thinks.

Of course it's not new, it started around the same time and thrived all the way. Even in "dark times" of mid-00' to mid-10' when SP games on PC was really down, PC gaming as a whole thrived (on back on live services that came there much earlier than consoles - MMO and WoW in particular, LoL, CS/Dota etc)

 

[Gaiff]

It's not serious, it's funny
I have a strong analytical mind and it's very... Interesting to see typical PC fans blablabla about PC superiority only to be abused by almost everyone.

You're the one crashing out in this thread.

I have my own PC with 7900XTX in it, that I play PC centric games (shooters, MMO etc) but I feel zero empathy to PCMR crowd.

No one cares for your empathy. You're just actin' a fool.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I have a strong analytical mind

 

[rodrigolfp]

PS4pro brought upscaling tech

Nope. upscaling predates PS4 Pro.

Consoles (mainline) are still best value/for money

Nope. I don't value only "performance" in gaming.

Ps5pro is enthusiast level hardware.

Nope. RTX 5090 is.

Digital only when you own nothing.

We own as we can backup our games on PC.

Paying for online is not mandatory.

Is it for games not F2P.

And PC doesn't have any of its own.

PC have gazillions of exclusives. Or are you getting games like WH Dawn of War or Total Hammer on consoles too?

PC superiority

It is at almost every aspect.

 

[Felessan]

You're the one crashing out in this thread.
No one cares for your empathy. You're just actin' a fool.

I act in rational matter with arguments in hands.
And typical PC fanboys here are just in denial. You clearly don't like what I am saying but all you can do is going for childish offense "you are fool"

Nope. upscaling predates PS4 Pro.

It was first mass market implementation that spurs further development. Same as RT was here since long time ago, but it was NVidia who drove adoption it in mainstream.

Nope. I don't value only "performance" in gaming.

Yes. I don't care what you value - record revenue shows where market preferences is

Nope. RTX 5090 is.

Both are. Enthusiasts are not about money and enthusiasts layer are much wider than 0.1%

We own as we can backup our games on PC.

We are talking about mass market, not some nerds. And backups prone to death as disk drives has much less reliability than physical media.

Is it for games not F2P.

F2p are games too and actually majority of games playerbase wise. As I wrote - paid online games that require subs are minority now compared to majority of gaas+sp.
And we are talking about majority, for minority niche tastes PC was always a shelter - see wargames and 4X fans

PC have gazillions of exclusives. Or are you getting games like WH Dawn of War or Total Hammer on consoles too?

We are talking about big games and not some trash forgotten in the bin.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It was first mass market implementation that spurs further development. Same as RT was here since long time ago, but it was NVidia who drove adoption it in mainstream.


Yes. I don't care what you value - record revenue shows where market preferences is


Both are. Enthusiasts are not about money and enthusiasts layer are much wider than 0.1%


We are talking about mass market, not some nerds. And backups prone to death as disk drives has much less reliability than physical media.


F2p are games too and actually majority of games playerbase wise. As I wrote - paid online games that require subs are minority now compared to majority of gaas+sp.
And we are talking about majority, for minority niche tastes PC was always a shelter - see wargames and 4X fans


We are talking about big games and not some trash forgotten in the bin.

Mass market implementation is irrelevant for who create the tech used.

What I care is relevant when I am buying a product. A cheaper but more limited gaming machine is not necessarily a better value.

Nope. Enthusiasts likes the minimum limitations possible.

Mass market is irrelevant for what I can do or not with my games. We can also save them in optical disks and cloud.

The vastly amount of games that have multiplayer is not GAAS. The number of players and their tastes don't change that fact.

Sure, Jam. Exclusives games only exist if they are AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Guess Switch doesn't have any exclusive as they are AA at very best.

 

[Celcius]

saying "master race" is cringe and yikes

 

[ecosse_011172]

I'm an enthusiast console gamer so I have a PS5 Pro
If I were an enthusiast PC gamer, I'd have a 5090 MEGARIG.

If performance AT ALL COSTS is what you desire, you get a MEGARIG.

 

[Kacho]

If I were an enthusiast PC gamer, I'd have a 5090 MEGARIG.

No you wouldn't, or rather it's not needed. You can have a badass rig without dropping a fortune on the latest GPU.

 

[Felessan]

Mass market implementation is irrelevant for who create the tech used.

And it was some math guys on mainframes those have nothing to do with PC or consoles or gaming at all.
We are talking about gaming, not some stuff that happened in another galaxy

What I care is relevant when I am buying a product. A cheaper but more limited gaming machine is not necessarily a better value.

Who care about you and what you care.
We are talking explicitly about whether PC can invade "sweet spot" that consoles occupy or not. And sweet spot defined by mass market preferences, not yours. You can be a geek who very fond of 2kw heater. It's completely fine, but it a niche geek space, it doesn't matter much to mass market or even subset of wide enthusiast market (which again is not limited to 5090).

 

[ecosse_011172]

No you wouldn't, or rather it's not needed. You can have a badass rig without dropping a fortune on the latest GPU.

"badass" is relative, in this context "enthusiast" wants the best.
If I don't get a 5090, I'd be as well sticking with my Ps5 Pro.

 

[Gaiff]

I act in rational matter with arguments in hands.
And typical PC fanboys here are just in denial. You clearly don't like what I am saying but all you can do is going for childish offense "you are fool"

No, you act like a childish fanboy fighting against no one.

 

[rodrigolfp]

And it was some math guys on mainframes those have nothing to do with PC or consoles or gaming at all.
We are talking about gaming, not some stuff that happened in another galaxy

Main frames are PCs.

Who care about you and what you care.
We are talking explicitly about whether PC can invade "sweet spot" that consoles occupy or not. And sweet spot defined by mass market preferences, not yours. You can be a geek who very fond of 2kw heater. It's completely fine, but it a niche geek space, it doesn't matter much to mass market or even subset of wide enthusiast market (which again is not limited to 5090).

Again, what others/mass market cares or not are irrelevant to what I care and consume.

 

[Bojji]

"badass" is relative, in this context "enthusiast" wants the best.
If I don't get a 5090, I'd be as well sticking with my Ps5 Pro.

You can get 5080 that already is more powerful than PS6.

 

[Kacho]

"badass" is relative, in this context "enthusiast" wants the best.
If I don't get a 5090, I'd be as well sticking with my Ps5 Pro.

An enthusiast could spend much less on a 'badass' GPU that runs circles around the Pro. An enthusiast of fast cars likely won't drive a Civic, but that doesn't mean they spend a fortune on a Lamborghini because it's faster than a the more modestly priced Supra.

 

[mèx]

:steamsalty:

 

[IFireflyl]

Typical pcmr
First PC is 1971, first console is 1972, Pong is 1972. So no - PC gaming wasn't "a thing" before existence of consoles

You're technically correct in that "PCs" weren't around before 1971, but "computer gaming" was around long before console gaming. The game you referenced, Pong, was essentially a tweaked version of Tennis for Two, a game that came out in 1958. The only difference is that these older computer games were on either mainframes or minicomputers that were normally owned by institutions, not generally found in someone's house. But really, how is that any different than going to an internet cafe?

 

[SScorpio]

I act in rational matter with arguments in hands.
And typical PC fanboys here are just in denial. You clearly don't like what I am saying but all you can do is going for childish offense "you are fool"


It was first mass market implementation that spurs further development. Same as RT was here since long time ago, but it was NVidia who drove adoption it in mainstream.

The Xbox 360 was upscaling tons of games well before the PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering. Or were the 360 Call of Duty games not mass market enough for you?

We are talking about mass market, not some nerds. And backups prone to death as disk drives has much less reliability than physical media.

Yes the disk drive in your console is much more likely to fail. I have many 20-30 year old HDDs that are still work. However, CD and DVD drives from that era that are still working are getting harder and harder to find.

Hopefully a way to use the 1,000 year rated 100GB disks that cost $10 will be available in the future. 10-15 year old pressed BluRays are starting to die from disc rot.

We are talking about big games and not some trash forgotten in the bin.

Good to know games like World of Warcraft, original Call of Dutys, original Battlefields, Deus Ex, Half-Life, etc are all forgotten trash.

 

[Laptop1991]

I don't see how, different platforms, some may buy both but not in big numbers mostly, it's one or another generally, or switching back.

 

[Gaiff]

It was first mass market implementation that spurs further development. Same as RT was here since long time ago, but it was NVidia who drove adoption it in mainstream.

The fuck it was. Checkerboard rendering on the PS4 Pro has hardware acceleration. That's the difference and what was novel about it. Upscaling has been a thing long before that.

And lol at "spurred development". It was barely used. DLSS was the real revolution when it comes to upscalers.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I don't get the poll percentages..

88% + 44% doesn't add up to 100%

It's 120% ..

The poll allows both votes at the same time, that's why the percentages look weird.

 

[Felessan]

Main frames are PCs.

Lol, but that some really ignorant uneducated shit
PC stands for Personal, FYI. Mainframes, servers, supercomputers etc ain't ~~personal~~ computers - they are separate class of computing devices.

The fuck it was. Checkerboard rendering on the PS4 Pro has hardware acceleration. That's the difference and what was novel about it. Upscaling has been a thing long before that.
And lol at "spurred development". It was barely used. DLSS was the real revolution when it comes to upscalers.

And we are talking about hardware advancements.
Like I said - every "novelty" PC fans claims for advancement existed in white paper for decades so PC "did nothing" (lol). It just another platform that gets scraps late. It's normal because consumers are at the far end of technology implementation curve, they require low cost, and early stage of any technology are high cost solutions (and 5090 is very cheap in this regard).
But in reality nobody care about what was in theoretical papers or ultra-niche/non-gaming uses where devices for millions $$ required. It's not a consumer space. It's only interesting for consumers when they can use it themselves.

Good to know games like World of Warcraft, original Call of Dutys, original Battlefields, Deus Ex, Half-Life, etc are all forgotten trash.

Yes, it's forgotten trash.
We are talking about now, not reminiscence of golden youth. SP PC gaming was good, sometimes even very good in 70's to early-mid 00's, where piracy killed it, 95+% gaming was converted to live service and it crawled this way for a decade until console-first games started port games to PC for extra revenue,

 

[Gaiff]

And we are talking about hardware advancements.
Like I said - every "novelty" PC fans claims for advancement existed in white paper for decades so PC "did nothing" (lol). It just another platform that gets scraps late. It's normal because consumers are at the far end of technology implementation curve, they require low cost, and early stage of any technology are high cost solutions (and 5090 is very cheap in this regard).
But in reality nobody care about what was in theoretical papers or ultra-niche/non-gaming uses where devices for millions $$ required. It's not a consumer space. It's only interesting for consumers when they can use it themselves.

No, we fucking aren't. "PS4 Pro brought upscaling tech", no, it did not. Upscaling predates the Pro and you just added the hardware stipulation later on. Furthermore, checkerboard rendering was only employed in a handful of games and fucking sucked. The revolutionary technology was DLSS. That's the one that put upscaling on the map and brought a new standard the industry was forced to follow. No one gave a shit about checkerboard rendering on the Pro that was used in like 10 games.

 

[ecosse_011172]

No, we fucking aren't. "PS4 Pro brought upscaling tech", no, it did not. Upscaling predates the Pro and you just added the hardware stipulation later on. Furthermore, checkerboard rendering was only employed in a handful of games and fucking sucked. The revolutionary technology was DLSS. That's the one that put upscaling on the map and brought a new standard the industry was forced to follow. No one gave a shit about checkerboard rendering on the Pro that was used in like 10 games.

Yeah but if DLSS wasn't used first in a Playstation then it doesn't count as PCs are stinkypants and Playstation is the best.

 

[Felessan]

No, we fucking aren't. "PS4 Pro brought upscaling tech", no, it did not. Upscaling predates the Pro and you just added the hardware stipulation later on. Furthermore, checkerboard rendering was only employed in a handful of games and fucking sucked. The revolutionary technology was DLSS. That's the one that put upscaling on the map and brought a new standard the industry was forced to follow. No one gave a shit about checkerboard rendering on the Pro that was used in like 10 games.

Than what did exactly PC brought? Nothingburger, lol? Double standards are hilarious here
And if we are not talking about hardware, what exactly we are talking, proof of concept papers? They have nothing to do with PC, consoles or any device. They are math papers, you know.

And there quite a few checkerbox games and youre opinion on quality is irrelevant. PCMR guys always find an excuse why all other shiny things are worse than their own.

 

[ecosse_011172]

And there quite a few checkerbox games and youre opinion on quality is irrelevant. PCMR guys always find an excuse why all other shiny things are worse than their own.

 

[Gaiff]

Than what did exactly PC brought? Nothingburger, lol? Double standards are hilarious here
And if we are not talking about hardware, what exactly we are talking, proof of concept papers? They have nothing to do with PC, consoles or any device. They are math papers, you know.

And there quite a few checkerbox games and youre opinion on quality is irrelevant. PCMR guys always find an excuse why all other shiny things are worse than their own.

"Quite a few", there are like 10 and I'm not even joking. No one gave a shit about checkerboard rendering. It didn't blaze trails or was adopted by anyone else. AI upscaling was. The Pro did nothing for upscaling besides bringing a mediocre solution with low adoption that no one remembers.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Lol, but that some really ignorant uneducated shit
PC stands for Personal, FYI. Mainframes, servers, supercomputers etc ain't ~~personal~~ computers - they are separate class of computing devices.

Any mainframe, server or supercomputer can be personal.

Yes, it's forgotten trash.
We are talking about now, not reminiscence of golden youth. SP PC gaming was good, sometimes even very good in 70's to early-mid 00's, where piracy killed it, 95+% gaming was converted to live service and it crawled this way for a decade until console-first games started port games to PC for extra revenue,

By that logic consoles have only a handful of exclusives as every older games are forgotten trash.

 

[SScorpio]

By that logic consoles have only a handful of exclusives as every older games are forgotten trash.

PlayStation has what two exclusives on the PS5? Nintendo has two games with the Switch 2?

 

[Parazels]

"pcmr" is a little animal getting in the way of the console juggernauts. It can't "strengthen" anything, lol!

 

[metareferential]

Is this damage control?

Because it looks like damage control.

 

[Idleyes]

Consoles (mainline) are still best value/for money black box that takes 5 minutes to setup without any technical knowledge and play games that doesn't tell you "fuck off" every now and then, especially on budget hardware.
It's optimal point of price, value for money, easy of use, comfort of play and actual quality of the games. PC can be better in some of them being significantly worse in others, but sweet spot is unreachable for it.


Ps5pro is enthusiast level hardware. It's not mass market product base PS5 targets.


Digital only when you own nothing.


Paying for online is not mandatory. Majority of console players doesn't pay - Fortnite is free to play online and SP games doesn't need any.


And PC doesn't have any of its own. All PC players can do is sit, wait and hope. And occasionally beg for port of Bloodborne

It's funny how PC players call themselves Master race, but in reality treated as 2nd class citizen by almost everyone - Jensen "please pay x2", publishers "please wait in this special line for an year and maybe, ~maybe~ you'll be allowed to get in", devs "game works like crap? Buy better PC"

You're mixing some truths with a lot of personal tastes.

Yeah, consoles are easier to set up and cheaper upfront, ain't nobody's denying that. On PC, you can mod, upgrade, and keep your library for decades without worrying about backwards compatibility being "a service" you have to re-buy. Do you deny that?

The "PC has no exclusives" line just ignores genres that don't even exist on consoles. Grand strategy, high-end sims, certain MMOs, mod-heavy sandboxes, VR titles. If you're only counting Sony-style cinematic action games, that's your preference, not proof of "no exclusives." I personably enjoy sandbox games with Hella features than linear ones that prompt me to push the Square, Circle, Triangle or X at the right time to continue a cutscene.

And no, PC players aren't "2nd class citizens" unless you cherry-pick bad ports and ignore the fact that the majority of esports, competitive shooters, and indie innovation live on PC. Publishers milk everyone these days just ask a console owner about cross-gen remasters and deluxe editions.

I'm not even going to mention how great 4k gaming at 144fps feels. You'd have to try it yourself one day.

If anything, PC and console both have their pros and cons pretending one is all upside and the other is all downside just tells me you've never seriously lived outside a single platform.

 

[Radical_3d]

Weekend GAF starts early, I see…

 

[Durin]

Part of OP's post feels like it belongs in the 360/PS3 era...PC has been directly strengthening console platforms because they are built off AMD x86/Nvidia ARM chips derived from PC components, with light customization. Other hardware features like cores for ray-tracing and AI upscaling are built off tech popularized by PC hardware, along with Discord integration. All the money pushing advancement in AI cloud servers will trickle down to individual box benefits as well.

We're long past the days of bespoke hardware like the Cell processor, and the platforms all cross-pollinate features...which is why IconERA is a joke because they're fanboys fighting a war less and less people each year give a fuck about, and will stupidly pretend their chosen box is the only one with good games...even though you can find good shit everywhere now.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I sort of miss the exotic tech console days, it's obviously much less efficient and unrealistic with budgets these days but having different consoles with different architecture and approaches was fun.
E.g the PS2 , GameCube and XBox generation.

 

[lh032]

did you see the PC gaming space declining in Japan? it will soon follows in other countries, give it sometime.

 

[Silentium]

Part of OP's post feels like it belongs in the 360/PS3 era...PC has been directly strengthening console platforms because they are built off AMD x86/Nvidia ARM chips derived from PC components, with light customization. Other hardware features like cores for ray-tracing and AI upscaling are built off tech popularized by PC hardware, along with Discord integration. All the money pushing advancement in AI cloud servers will trickle down to individual box benefits as well.

We're long past the days of bespoke hardware like the Cell processor, and the platforms all cross-pollinate features...which is why IconERA is a joke because they're fanboys fighting a war less and less people each year give a fuck about, and will stupidly pretend their chosen box is the only one with good games...even though you can find good shit everywhere now.

100%. I thought this was some necro from like 2011 or something.