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Can we stop pretending switch docked mode is of secondary importance to portable play?
- Thread starter StateofMajora
- Start date
- Opinion Drama
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StateofMajora
Banned
Because it improves one half of the switch experience.
If they made switch more powerful, but kept the same screen and form factor would you say it’s more of a home unit? I doubt it.
bender
What time is it?
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eastcoastkody
Member
i never use it as a portable
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
let's be honest here anything is better then the joycons hahah
today I was playing this weeby game on my brand new oled switch. (that tokyo mirage game) And suddenly my joystick input was stuck on down.
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Kilau
Member
But they didn’t do that did they? They also didn’t make a unit without a screen that has to stay plugged in all the time but they did make one that doesn’t dock.
Kokoloko85
Member
I play it 90% docked.
But I think the great appeal is thats its handheld for most people. I mean imagine if Nintendo released a console with those specs….
Ive had every Nintendo console and handheld since the Nes including the Wii U ( which I loved ) but most people wouldn’t buy the Switch if it wasn’t a handheld.
But I think the great appeal is thats its handheld for most people. I mean imagine if Nintendo released a console with those specs….
Ive had every Nintendo console and handheld since the Nes including the Wii U ( which I loved ) but most people wouldn’t buy the Switch if it wasn’t a handheld.
CamHostage
Member
It's for sure weird to be on the other side of this TV wormhole, but I'm one of those inverse guys... half the time when I'm watching a show or even a movie, I have it on my tablet rather than turning on my entertainment system.
Partly, it's because TVs are a pain to navigate these days (slow to heat up, and sometimes they don't handshake well to start the device I want to use, plus the sound system needs to go on and in my case I need to move some stuff around in the room, and then if somebody put the danged remote in the wrong place... I know, what torture to enjoy HD entertainment on a big screen!)
But also, I generally prefer the intimacy and immediacy of a portable. Not for a great big drama or epic, that I want to be fully immersed in, but a TV show or a comedy or a doc, I enjoy having it near me. I can pick it up and take it somewhere else in the house if I don't want to be where I started. I can pause it quick and put it down and come back to it. I can have it outside. It goes where I want my entertainment to go, and it's on almost immediately when I reach for it.
Been this way for a long time, especially once PSP/DS had the Instant Resume feature that put games at your fingertips instantaneously. (You would be horrified by the great PS3 games I have collected, still in shrinkwrap... like, what am I going to do with this copy of Warhawk?!) I'd now never buy a puzzle game or a 2D game or a really grindy RPG if I couldn't play it on a portable, because I just know that whenever I turn on my TV, those aren't the games I will ever reach for, even if I like the games a lot. On a portable, though, I might hot-swap 3 games in a lunch-break just because all of them caught my eye when I checked the menu.
My Switch dock still sits in the box it came in, and I don't know if that'll ever change...
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PuppetMaster
Member
Like others have said, Switch games just don't look great to me on a TV.
On a smaller screen they hold up better. As the flaws are far less pronounced even at 720p.
When I am on my couch in front of my TV I want to play full console games. The Switch I play 90% of the time from my bed!
On a smaller screen they hold up better. As the flaws are far less pronounced even at 720p.
When I am on my couch in front of my TV I want to play full console games. The Switch I play 90% of the time from my bed!
Skifi28
Member
Too underpowered to be a console, too cumbersome to be a handheld. Why excel at something when you can suck at two things instead, right? In the end I prefer docked with a pro controller which doesn't kill my hands. Portable can go fuck itself, the ergonomics are terrible, it's too large to carry in your pockets and you need to be careful of the screen getting scratched. If I need a special case just to carry it outside, it might as well be a laptop.
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
This.
I don't know why people have a hard time accepting that. This is a portable device, having some HDMI doesn't fucking magically make it no longer portable. Would be like me putting my phone on the TV and be like "its not portable doe", we literally just saw a home console by them fail with the Wii U despite having a great first party line up, the same fucking line up moved RECORD units on Switch, as in to say even the same fucking games moved MORE UNITS on Switch then Wii U as no one could just argue that Nintendo just made horrid games as to why that system failed.
It failed cause it was a home console and the majority of the market for Nintendo is simply no longer that, its portable. A lot of us older gamers might actually play more on the TV with that device based on eyesight or preferring traditional set up etc, but shit a lot of us also used PSP's TV out, I don't recall anyone fucking pretending that wasn't a fucking handheld folks, I don't recall anyone saying their phone is no longer a phone cause it can have an HDMI out
Stop...
PuppetMaster
Well I'm not really surprised. My guess would simply be majority play this way.Wii U moved 14 million
3DS moved 80 million
It makes more sense to put that priority on it playing well portable. I think the know it doesn't look that great on TV, but its an option and the smaller install base is in a situation where beggars can't be choosers. Its either Portable with HDMI out, or simply a portable as they had no fucking hopes of going back to home console after Wii U failed. I simply don't see any evidence that most really play docked as where the fuck where those same consumers to buy Wii U when it fucking had some of THE SAME GAMES?
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StateofMajora
Banned
This is not a why people buy a switch thread.
This is about the docked experience being no less of a focus, and that developers focus just as much (if not more depending on the title, as I mentioned) on the docked experience vs. portable.
We all know switch is more so successful because of the handheld aspect. It’s not the point. That’s personal preference.
Deputy Moonman
Member
I'm surprised almost 50% of people voted that the Switch is mostly a handheld. How the majority of people actually use the Switch should be irrelevant. Whether games look good on a tv or that the Switch is "underpowered," again, should be completely irrelevant... If there is no other way to play Switch games on a tv outside the Switch then it has to be as much a home console as a portable. And it's clear Nintendo intended for it to be used as both a home console and a portable. I get people have their preferences on how they use their Switch but arguing the Switch is mostly a portable doesn't really compute. Personally, I prefer games on a tv. If Nintendo had made a cheaper tv specific version with no portability I would have bought it years ago. Nintendo is making a fortune off the Switch, but they're also leaving money on the table as I know I'm not alone.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Ok...but in order to explain why many might not give a fuck about focusing on "docked", many might site the system being successful based on being portable.....
Its part of the point if someone is stating WHY its not the focus...
Wii U moved 14 million
3DS moved 80 million
We all know why that would lead to a developer focusing LESS on the whole docked thing. We don't have much evidence that the core install base even cares about that, as why the fuck didn't they care about that with Wii U when it literally had some of the same games?
StateofMajora
Banned
Sales are anecdotal and why someone bought a switch does not affect how the games are made for the docked or portable experience.
In terms of the experience, it’s usually the case where the docked mode has higher average fps, and in the case of Nintendo’s own games the docked experience is superior.
This is not a sales thread, again.
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Kilau
Member
Well I disagree that the portable mode isn’t more important, without it there would be zero reason to ever consider a multi platform game on Switch.
The Switch would not exist in its current hardware configuration at all if it weren’t a portable.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
The deep, deep lolz.
Sir....yes it fucking does. Its one of the biggest factors as that is how any company will determine what is worth their money to actually focus on. If they see the majority do not use a feature or the majority did not buy it for that feature, it means they have very little reason to care if its subpar. They will simply get the image on the screen and move on.
Yet it is the reason on why someone would focus less on that feature sir, its relevant to be brought up. They already know MOST bought it for portable, thus will focus on what MOST bought it for. Its no different then Square putting stuff like Tomb Raider or Deus Ex on XB, yet not some JRPGs, its cause sales bud, it very much will effect how the game is made, what system its on, what features are used based on that demographic etc. They need to fucking know that number so they know how much time, money, etc they should spend on that feature based on HOW MANY really care about it. I don't know what to tell you man, it makes sense why Nintendo didn't make 2 systems and just made a portable with a HDMI out.
The portable is the default is must be made, the HDMI is optional and the system would have still moved massive units WITHOUT an HDMI.
Again.
Wii U 14 million
3DS 80 million
Clearly they know what the majority wants and the lessor would have to deal with subHD as they have little choice, they are the smaller install base. We already know what a home console with BOTW, Smash Bros and Mario Kart would have sold bud. To really pretend that will have zero effect on how games are made is silly.
CapnAmaricrunch
Banned
I started off playing only docked on a big screen now I only play portable and the graphics are better that way.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
To be honest, thats probably never going to happen.
I've learned to just deal with it as clearly most didn't buy their last home console, so I see it as beggars can't be choosers and I'm just happy I get to play those games on my TV vs split the install base or something. Those Gamecube days are over.
What would even need to change to get you back? I'm 99% sure a Gamecube controller add on thing exist to get that feels
zokie
Member
for me personally
90% docked mode
10% handheld mode ( when there are times i cannot sleep at night and i have turned off my router when i sleep )
i am not investing on the OLED model and also i would rather wait for a successor to switch
$ is limited to me this days and i need to 'watch' how i spend
90% docked mode
10% handheld mode ( when there are times i cannot sleep at night and i have turned off my router when i sleep )
i am not investing on the OLED model and also i would rather wait for a successor to switch
$ is limited to me this days and i need to 'watch' how i spend
Nautilus
Banned
Yeah, I agree that its stupid that, even after all these years, people still can't accept that the Switch is a hybrid console.
The only reason they push this narrative is that they must somehow feel threatened that the Switch managed to be successful for a great many people not only just as a portable console, but also as a home console.
The only reason they push this narrative is that they must somehow feel threatened that the Switch managed to be successful for a great many people not only just as a portable console, but also as a home console.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Nintendo consoles haven't really looked great on modern TVs starting with Wii. It's kind of a thing I've just accepted. Lower resolution and Nintendo's apparent allergy to antialiasing are years old now. But Mario Kart is still fun on my 4K TV that I'm 3 meters away from. Add the pro controller and the world is an ok place.
Topher
Identifies as young
Nothing needs to change at all for me. I am perfectly happy being a PC/Xbox/PS gamer. It is Nintendo's job to make a product I like. Switch isn't that product. I don't think Nintendo cares though. They have customers that love their products and I'm not one of them. Such is life. I'm glad their customers are happy with their products. Nothing else to say.
I also prefer Cheetos puffs to crunchy
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StateofMajora
Banned
We are on 2 different planets here. If we can first agree on what we are even talking about, we can continue.
I am simply talking about how games are made relative to a developer making 2 different versions on switch.
They don’t just say “oh well people buy this for a portable, so let’s make the docked experience worse than it should be.”. That doesn’t happen. Equal amounts of effort are being put into both versions and indeed, sometimes more so into the docked version where they have more performance headroom.
The docked experience is superior, that’s the general rule. It’s not some secondary meaningless option.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Agreed.
Because of how their last home console turned out, I was just ok to deal with this as many positives exist.
1. We get all games vs some.
2.We actually get to play on the TV (even with shitty image) lol
Thats enough for me to accept what this is. The set up they had before wasn't going to matter if the image was better, if no one was buying it either. I think a lot of us that wanted that, are those 14 million that even bought Wii U lol Most really don't care about that, so I'm ok with this set up if it means we get real support vs some.
The lolz, Switch is no more a "hybrid" then a phone is, I don't consider an HDMI some how making something a "hybrid" lol Its a massive reach and exaggerates a bit too much.
I also don't know what you mean by "they" as some of us literally own all the past systems Nintendo put out and still don't consider this some "hybrid" its a portable with HDMI....
I never considered a fucking phone that or the PSP when it had the TV out man, just stop. I'd argue the only narrative here, is suddenly NOW trying to pretend HDMI out now = hybrid lol Using this logic, all devices that have HDMI outs are now all "hybrids" lol
Nah bud. I'm happy its successful and it makes sense coming off of how great 3DS sold =)
StateofMajora
"I am simply talking about how games are made " How much someone uses a feature or not is relevant to how they are made..."Equal amounts of effort are being put into both versions " lol very, very doubtful. I don't believe any major publisher is out here spending any energy getting the most the can out of a feature less use. That doesn't have shit to do with Switch, that has to do with game development in general, thats like me saying some shit like "Equal amounts of effort are being put into both versions" in terms of console ports and PC ports, as if I fucking suddenly KNOW all developer are honest and just want the best for everyone, yup no shady ports are made and they put equal money in ALL VERSIONS out of the kindness of their hearts /s
Where did you get this weird shit from man? Business is business, I see zero evidence that any of those publishers are putting out games where they put the budget on both concepts equally and then ignore all stats and past sales regarding that install base. I've NEVER heard that to be the case regardless of system.
We've see shitty ports like Arkham Knight on PC, you going to tell me they um put what was it..."Equal amounts of effort are being put into both versions " ??? Clearly they didn't. They didn't because they already knew the majorty sales would come from home console, thus put LESS money on that PC version.
I don't see anything that is arguing that they've now gained this heart and are soooooo honest and will put "Equal amounts of effort are being put into both versions" cause they are so nice now lol Nah man, business is business and how many really use that feature is relevant to how much they'll focus on it or not. Thats the way it is for the whole industry mind you, I don't know why you tried to make it sound like they have some special honor code for Switch or something.
Ask yourself this, where was this equal effort with KH collection coming on fucking cloud and streaming? If they are doing something like that, you don't believe they might play a numbers game and focus on a portable they know the vast majority use vs don't us the HDMI out?
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StateofMajora
Banned
Wii actually looks pretty decent on my tv via component. Sony’s sharpening on my bravia helps a lot.
Wii U looks great. I prefer Nintendo using no AA as opposed to fxaa or taa, as it keeps the image crisp and doesn’t ruin detail. Though some kind of aa could be beneficial obviously. The bigger issue I have is Nintendo still uses bilinear texture filtering a lot. :/
When Nintendo does use AA like in pikmin 3, it works well.
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Phunkydiabetic
Banned
I was wondering if anyone else felt this way. The tiny screen is doable but the ergonomics are horrific. I have no idea how to use it in handheld comfortably, I've tried everything. For now if I am going to use it in handheld (which is basically never) I end up holding the thing with my two pinkies underneath to support it, this gives me a bit of angle to be able to use both triggers if need be. You certainly can't hold the thing with four fingers over the four triggers like you would on a controller.
I'm like 6'9" so maybe my hands are too big for it or something I dunno.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Citation needed.
How many games have double or more the resolution on docked mode vs portable? A lot. The majority, if you’re keeping up with all these tech articles.
Cloud version is irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about native games, portable vs. docked.
There’s no doubt there are some low effort switch games out there, but my point is when they do bother the docked version doesn’t suffer for it. Any limitations it has are because they don’t re write the entire engine for switch and there are just some basic limitations there.
Look at Nintendo’s own games and you’ll consistently see docked mode getting better treatment. Xenoblade 360p with nasty sharpening on portable, 720p docked. 30fps bowsers fury portable, 480p or less on mario odyssey portable etc.
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Nah bud, all you have to do is look up shitty ports yourself. You clearly know publishers play this game. They will budget based on what is used by the majority, what is the hot trend, what is the most used etc. Google all the crappy ports yourself lol
Its 100% relevant, its showing you directly that a developer will ignore certain aspects of a system and won't just um put in "Equal amounts of effort" into a game.
Oh really? I thought they put in ""Equal amounts of effort"? OHHHH so you KNOW that some low effort shit exist, but to push your narrative, that NEVER happens else where though? Those same developers will be nice and honest with putting in effort in both portable and HDMI out equally?
Do you not hear how odd that might sound? Of all consumers, Nintendo fans should fucking know that not ALL DEVELOPER ARE CREATED EQUAL, you've fucking seen shitty ports yourself, to then pretend that such a concept like them not putting in effort into 1 concept vs the other can't exist, but they'll not put effort into a whole ass game? Come on now man lol That is just too naive and tries to make it sound like you know for sure they won't do this, but hey "no doubt there are some low effort switch games"
Stop man....
I get you might like 1 concept over the other, but I see no evidence that most in business really care, they care about how much really USE that feature and if its worth their money to make sure it works correctly without much issue. I'd say that about any damn platform, in any industry.
Its simply just how business is done and I can't blame them. Its a numbers game. It would be like if you had a system move 200 million units, but only 1 million played online, you really fucking think a publisher would be out here putting in ""Equal amounts of effort" in online on that platform, building servers etc when the find out very few play online at all? Everyone would understand WHY they would not focus their energy on that concept on said platform, its not that shocking and its not some out there conspiracy. How many use it is extremely relevant to support
StateofMajora
Banned
It’s apparently hard for you to carry out a coherent conversation. Jeez man, settle down a bit.
For the last time, I am not comparing switch ports to other versions, merely docked vs. portable, and you continue to ignore my examples of games from the company who made switch.
My “low effort ports” was referring to the switch ports in their entirety. Like ark survival.
When we talk about “2 versions” we really mean some relatively minor tweaking (compared to an actual port between different platforms) between portable and docked. The extra clock frequency is there for developers to easily hit higher performance on docked. So even if a developer wanted to get lazy with the docked performance, it’s still pretty easy to get more out of it than an actual port.
I’m just going to let you rant dude…
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Sir, you seem to only want to talk about this minus the reason WHY it might happen bud. That isn't a "coherent conversation".
Yet all of that is relevant. The same fucking reasons someone might be cheap with a port, is the same reason they might favor portable features vs docked. They put out a cheap port cause the numbers didn't support putting the majority budget on that version, they focused less on "docked" cause the numbers didn't support putting the majority budget on that feature.
The reasons why they'd do both are relevant to this.
Yea, crazy how little effort the put into it, but hey they will put alllll the effort into BOTH portable features and docked though right?
You seem like you want to cry about shit ports, yet argue those same shitty developers now magically give a shit about BOTH features 100% and are honest saints that would NEVER give less effort to save money. You can't have this one both ways man lol
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Weird poll results. It’s very much primarily a handheld.
Kacho
Gold Member
Yep it’s impossible to hold comfortably and that doesn’t just apply to 6 foot 9 behemoths. My fingers can’t even rest on the joycon shoulder buttons comfortably when they’re detached from the system. It’s why all my Switch gaming is done with the pro controller on my TV.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think Metroid looks great on my CX.
I've used the switch out of the dock a handful of times at most - I mainly own one for Nintendo exclusive titles and they all look and run worse in handheld mode, so for me it's absolutely a home console.
Though for a lot of people who own the switch lite it is only a handheld - if one owns a non-oled Switch with a dock and use it primarily as a handheld, I don't really know why you'd keep it when there's a cheaper mobile-only version available.
In general, it's really neither a home console nor a portable console - it's an all-in-one console and in being a jack of all trades is a master of none, but that's kind of the whole point of the system.
Though for a lot of people who own the switch lite it is only a handheld - if one owns a non-oled Switch with a dock and use it primarily as a handheld, I don't really know why you'd keep it when there's a cheaper mobile-only version available.
In general, it's really neither a home console nor a portable console - it's an all-in-one console and in being a jack of all trades is a master of none, but that's kind of the whole point of the system.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Agreed. I happy we have a choice as I don't care the way most handhelds feel, but with the majority install base being that, its hard argue against this setup as the alternative is them not making a HDMI out at all, keep in mind they'd still sell millions of units and break all sorts of records without it, so I'll take what I can get lol
I've heard good things about this and got one a few years ago for some friends of mine.
Anyone know just how many games actually support this? lol
Swift_Star
Banned
I only play it docked.
StateofMajora
Banned
I'm at least pleased gaf has enough sense that the docked poll choice is winning, but it should be winning by a lot more.
Burning Blade
Member
I’ve had a switch since 2017 and have never used the dock. Admittedly, I’m a sucker for handhelds, and I prefer the portability as I never seem to make time to sit in front of the tube to play. Still haven’t even removed the dock from its packaging.
ManaByte
Gold Member
InterMusketeer
Member
IMO the Switch is defined by its handheld mode. It's a portable device that can be slightly boosted when in docked mode. Both portable and docked performance leaves a lot to be desired. Certain games perform better in handheld mode, others while docked, but ultimately its hardware was designed with portability in mind.
I personally traded my launch Switch in for a Lite because I used mine in handheld more way more than docked. The Lite is a lot more comfortable and feels more solid due to the integrated controls. I sometimes miss the capability to connect to a screen, but I don't want to go back to the old form factor.
I personally traded my launch Switch in for a Lite because I used mine in handheld more way more than docked. The Lite is a lot more comfortable and feels more solid due to the integrated controls. I sometimes miss the capability to connect to a screen, but I don't want to go back to the old form factor.