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[Azih]

maybe in big European countries with big parliaments they may work

but Canada's parliament is too small for it too work.

the only time it ever worked was wth Liberal-NDP coalitions from the 60s

Nah tiny ass countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway et all have been working with stable non single party majorites for decades.

New Freaking Zealand is doing just fine after it moved from our kind of system to PR in the last twenty years. New Zealand for pete's sake!

And Bill Davis PCs in Ontario had a long running stable agreement with the NDP.

 

[hypostatic]

Ignatieff LOL.

Grade-A douchebag. Same Liberal party shit.

 

[SRG01]

So I'm reading that the NDP may try to prop up the Conservatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/01/ignatieff-liberals090109.html

This is turning into a soap opera. :lol

 

[Bisnic]

Canada & politic. FUCK YEAH.

 

[gutter_trash]

So I'm reading that the NDP may try to prop up the Conservatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/01/ignatieff-liberals090109.html

This is turning into a soap opera. :lol

NDP successes and failures are 100% dependent on how well or bad the Liberals do

Rembember Jean Chretien?

He was so successful that both the NDP and the Progresive Conservatives lost their Official Party Status in 1993.

Jean Chretien awesome rule
1993: PLC (177 seats), NDP (9 seats) (lost Official Party stats requires 12 at least)
1997: PLC (152 seats), NDP (21 seats)
2000: PLC (172 seats), NDP (13 seats)

Stephane Dion's stagger into the biggest Liberal low count in 50 years
2008: PLC (77 seats), NDP (37 sseats)

*the NDP knows this and they know they will lose seats to Iggy

 

[Pachinko]

I only skimmed this thread, I'm not gonna lie but the fact that the flying douche known as jack layton actually has any supporters kind of baffles me. Sure , harper ain't exactly the greatest guy or the best PM(or the worst for that matter) but layton is an example of the type of party leader who just comes across as so unlikable that no matter how much I agree with his parties policies I hate the guy in charge. Putting the liberals back in would mean a return to higher taxes and a lower dollar but the fundamental policies that a liberal gov't is supposed to stand for are more in line with my ideoligical values. Again though I don't think the current liberal party is in any sort of state to run this country. The conservatives on the other hand seem to be very public about doing things, wether you agree with them or not is up for debate I guess but atleast I know my tax dollars are getting spent on something. It's just a shame that I disagree with 90% of what the conservative party stands for.


If only there was a socialist party with enough power to be worth throwing a vote at...

 

[gutter_trash]

Putting the liberals back in would mean a return to higher taxes and a lower dollar

Liberals have reduced the income tax way more than the Conservatives ever had.
Brian Mulroney created the GST

just a couple of facts you should know

Mulroney and Harper ran deficits.... Chretien and Martin ran surpluses.

the Canadian Dollar is tied to Oil Prices. When gas went sky high not too long ago, so did the Dollar

 

[Ether_Snake]

Here's my case:

In theory I would love having a good government, but in Canada's case the only governments we have had are governments that are bent on screwing everyone over again and again.

So constantly toppling them appears to actually be a GOOD thing, because none of them manage to fuck us for very long. We're basically left to our own selves to make our own future, and we don't allow our government to become strong enough to screw us.

Think of it as a Libertarian government, without Libertarian politics.

I think Canadians have a good deal here.

I call it, the Free Government (it's like the Free Market, but with governments!).

 

[CygnusXS]

Here's my case:

In theory I would love having a good government, but in Canada's case the only governments we have had are governments that are bent on screwing everyone over again and again.

So constantly toppling them appears to actually be a GOOD thing, because none of them manage to fuck us for very long. We're basically left to our own selves to make our own future, and we don't allow our government to become strong enough to screw us.

Think of it as a Libertarian government, without Libertarian politics.

I think Canadians have a good deal here.

I call it, the Free Government (it's like the Free Market, but with governments!).

Too bad valuable public services like health care, EI, welfare, child care, and infrastructure maintenance depend on a functional federal government to preserve them.

 

[SickBoy]

Personally, I think the three opposition parties should suck it up, deal with the misplaced public scorn it will draw, and actually try their hand at the coalition they pitched at the end of last year.

Should the government fall, the blame shouldn't fall on any one party, although it will be spun to be the Liberals' fault... it's a failure of everyone in the House.

To be honest, the idea of a majority is kind of scary to me at this stage. The sort of bland, centrist government that we have is far more comforting than a potentially hard conservative rule (or a soft nanny state as the NDP might bring).

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I only skimmed this thread, I'm not gonna lie but the fact that the flying douche known as jack layton actually has any supporters kind of baffles me. Sure , harper ain't exactly the greatest guy or the best PM(or the worst for that matter) but layton is an example of the type of party leader who just comes across as so unlikable that no matter how much I agree with his parties policies I hate the guy in charge. Putting the liberals back in would mean a return to higher taxes and a lower dollar but the fundamental policies that a liberal gov't is supposed to stand for are more in line with my ideoligical values. Again though I don't think the current liberal party is in any sort of state to run this country. The conservatives on the other hand seem to be very public about doing things, wether you agree with them or not is up for debate I guess but atleast I know my tax dollars are getting spent on something. It's just a shame that I disagree with 90% of what the conservative party stands for.


If only there was a socialist party with enough power to be worth throwing a vote at...

I'd be really happy to see the Green Party replace NDP or even Bloc in the political arena. I've had enough of both of those sorry excuses for a party. Green Party really are a better option for the 'I hate Conservatives but can't support the LIberals this election' crowd.

 

[Azih]

*Shrug* Layton is willing to work with anybody to get his policies through when he finds himself with leverage, which is kinda exactly what the leader of a small party should be doing in Parliament. I'm not sure what he's doing that's wrong really.

It worked with Paul Martin and the last budget of the Martin government that was a Lib-NDP compromise was pretty great.

 

[gutter_trash]

when the Liberals have a weak leader such as Turner or Dion, the NDP is quick to go into elections to gain more seats from Liberals in trouble

when the Liberals find strength with strong leader, the NDP are quick to avoid going into an election, fearing that they will see their seat count drop into the hands of Liberals

1988, the NDP had a record count of seats (Mulroney part 2, Turner failed again)
1993, the NDP lost official party status because they were reduced to 9 seats (Chretien landslide)
2008, the NDP gained mondo seats because it was Stephane Dion

NDP support has dropped ever since Iggy became leader, Layton knows this

 

[Azih]

That completely ignores the fact that Layton's NDP has always said the exact same thing and always offered the possibility of some kind of deal when a non-confidence vote has loomed and they have had the ability to save the government. The common thread is that Layton rarely gets leverage but he always tries to use it when he does get it to get some of his priorities worked on. Harper isn't the co-operative sort though so this isn't likely to come to anything. I mean hell, you're also not taking into account that the NDP has been the only party to consistently oppose the Conservatives on every issue of confidence and that their base is the most stridently opposed to Harper.


The Bloc hasn't chimed in yet and that should be interesting as the Bloc isn't exactly doing well lately.

 

[Firestorm]

So I'm reading that the NDP may try to prop up the Conservatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/01/ignatieff-liberals090109.html

This is turning into a soap opera. :lol

This is why I vote NDP while hoping they don't actually win. I don't trust them to run a country, and I think Layton is completely unlikeable, but I agree with enough of their policies that situations like this are very beneficial to me.

While they're at it, it'd be nice if they pushed through net neutrality. Maybe I should mail my MP.

 

[LakeEarth]

I'm not sure whether to just not vote, or vote Conservative not because I want them to run the country, but because I want a fricken majority government so this shit doesn't happen every year.

 

[The Elite]

Well you can do that and the person you don't want to win stands a better chance of doing so... or you can vote and even if you don't support either candidate you're almost certain to prefer one over the other, and so would still be serving your self interest.

Not voting just makes you an arse considering how many people would and have died for that right.

This spiel may work the first or second time... but after the fourth fucking time your vote starts to feel kind of pointless. What's the point of voting someone into office if they are possibly going to get voted out again in a year.

 

[maharg]

This spiel may work the first or second time... but after the fourth fucking time your vote starts to feel kind of pointless. What's the point of voting someone into office if they are possibly going to get voted out again in a year.

Considering voter apathy is likely one of the causes of our current minority situation, that's a bit cyclical.

I think the NDP have to weigh the fact that they will lose seats to the Libs against the possibility that they could become the actual balance of the house again. Technically they are now, but Harper doesn't play ball nicely and is ideologically opposed to most of their viewpoints. If the house can end up with Lib+NDP being half the house, they'll get a lot more of their policies through due to being ideologically closer (even without an official alliance).

Looking at the numbers, though, I'm not sure that's possible. Still, it might be worth the risk. Even Lib minority + NDP+Bloc for half would probably be better for all three of those parties and their supporters than Cons minority.

 

[Azih]

I'm not going to get into the game of guessing at the motivations of political leaders but considering the NDP base of support the only way the party can support the Conservatives without completely losing their core supporters is if Harper gave major major concessions.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Too bad valuable public services like health care, EI, welfare, child care, and infrastructure maintenance depend on a functional federal government to preserve them.

Yeah but if they get their shit together people will support them. Don't be a shitty party and you'll get a majority. It's not even because of cult-like fanatacism like in the US, it's just because the parties suck. Canadians will vote for a majority government when a proper one is presented.

 

[The Power Of Snap]

Bloc again for me.

 

[Agent Ghost]

I've decided my life will be more pleasant if I ignore politics completely.

Have fun with your circle jerk guys.

 

[SRG01]

Considering voter apathy is likely one of the causes of our current minority situation, that's a bit cyclical.

I think the NDP have to weigh the fact that they will lose seats to the Libs against the possibility that they could become the actual balance of the house again. Technically they are now, but Harper doesn't play ball nicely and is ideologically opposed to most of their viewpoints. If the house can end up with Lib+NDP being half the house, they'll get a lot more of their policies through due to being ideologically closer (even without an official alliance).

Looking at the numbers, though, I'm not sure that's possible. Still, it might be worth the risk. Even Lib minority + NDP+Bloc for half would probably be better for all three of those parties and their supporters than Cons minority.

Have the Conservatives ever truly played ball with the NDP, aside from the first minority government? Honestly, there's a reason why everyone says the minority Conservatives govern like a majority. It's because they know the opposition won't vote them down.

 

[gutter_trash]

Bloc again for me.

you are the reason why we have minority governments

 

[Azih]

Canadians will vote for a majority government when a proper one is presented.

A majority of Canadians haven't supported any one political party for decades. Whether we get majorities or not is pretty damn random and doesn't reflect popular support at all.

And yeah, it's playing out like I called it. Both the NDP and the Bloc are willing to cut a deal (with the NDP deal seeming pretty reasonable and the Bloc just wanting more Quebec pandering which would severly piss off Harper's base) but as usual the Cons don't seem interested at all in dealing with other parties just as they never have been in government.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/690303

I don't see any way to avoid an election at this point.