BigJonsson
Member
Doesn't take long to drop someone in if they want to
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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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Doesn't take long to drop someone in if they want to
That's not the whole story. Decentralization, or at least not interfering in provincial jurisdictions, also helped a lot. Harper avoided a lot of trouble because he didn't create any new conflict on that front.
gutter_trash
Banned
this is true, Harper's hands off approach and ignoring provinces is partially what lessened direct head-2-head confrontations between Federal vs Provinces
but Harper also benefited allot of having a Jean Charest rule as Premier during the majority of Harper's run.
even with the PQ's short term 18 month stint didn't last to affect anything because they were soon replaced by Philippe Couillard (majority) who is even more Federalist than Jean Charest was
Harper got lucky he didn't have to deal with Parizeau, Landry, Bouchard as Premiers
matthewwhatever
Member
What policy is that again?
Seriously, though, giving cities more power is a great idea, I just don't know that a federal leader is the person to be proposing it.In other news, here's why promising a balanced budget may be insane:
It goes both ways. Liberals were (easily) elected in Quebec for so long partly because there was no open conflict with the federal government. The PQ had less ammo. There was no crisis.
However I agree PQ leaders of the last decade were weaker than Parizeau and Bouchard.
gutter_trash
Banned
most conflicts stem from Constitutional debates and failure to reach consensus on accords like Meech Lake and Charlottetown that lit up the separatist fervor to re-ignite in the early 90s.
the calm has settled ever since people decided to not talk about the Constitution anymore.
Wow. This is one great ad haha
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
people may not have recallibrated to the fact that we now have 95 year long elections
firehawk12
Subete no aware
They should have gotten the actors from the Conservative ad and done the West Wing thing of purposefully duplicating the commercials point for point. lol
Laevateinn
Member
So, in Canada, there's no primary process? The party just selects the candidates? Do you guys just have committees of active party members and they vote for who they want to put up for the riding in case an election occurs?
This is probably the thing I understand least about countries who don't have a 2-year circle jerk.
This is probably the thing I understand least about countries who don't have a 2-year circle jerk.
It is up to each party as to how they go about to select their respective party leaders. Each has their own take on the process.
There's no guidelines on how a party selects their candidates for each riding. Usually there is some sort of riding association of party members who vote between candidates to decide who will represent them (just acclaiming someone if there's just one candidate). Sometimes party leaders step in and appoint somebody which occasionally causes a kerfuffle between the leadership and the riding association.
As party leaders have become more and more important (which is kinda inevitable in a media driven world) local candidates have become less so in most parts of the country. Vast majority of Canadians wouldn't be able to tell you who their federal MP (Member of Parliament) even is.
matthewwhatever
Member
There's a nomination process, it's just on a much, much smaller scale than in the United States, and has very strict financing rules. In general, paid members of riding associations elect their candidates, who then get approved by the central party, with the leader signing their nomination papers. Occasionally the central parties will just nominate a candidate, but that's becoming increasingly rare as parties realize that open nominations bring in money and voter names.
For the party leader, the process usually lasts a lot longer than it does at the riding level. The Liberals took a couple of years to replace their former leader with Trudeau; the NDP moved a little more quickly, since they needed to pick the person who'd become the Leader of the Official Opposition.
lolol "nice hair tho"
gutter_trash
Banned
yup, parties can do leadership conventions, they can even change the rules of their own leadership conventions, and they can even do coronations when nobody wants to challenge a sole strong contender who is next in line for the leadership.
Coronations happen more often in Provincial parties than they do in Federal parties.
LOL the Bloc who pretends to be democratic recently did a leadership switch with a snap of the fingers. They had a leadership convention over a year ago, then realized their new leader (Beaulieu) was a loser, snaps the fingers one year later then revert back to their old leader (Duceppe) who left in 2011
So there are two things involved: Getting on the ballot and getting a party put next to your name on the ballot. The first requires basically a petition process and a deposit to demonstrate you can even wage a campaign (which you get back if you achieve a certain % of the vote), which is easy enough if you've got a party machine behind you to get the signatures.
Getting the party name next to your ballot requires the party to be registered in some way with Elections Canada, and then what you need is the signature of the leader of the party on your nomination papers for the ballot. How you get that signature is completely outside any legal process and is entirely up to the party, and to a large extent, specifically the leader of that party.
Other people have described the usual processes for that, so I won't repeat them.
gutter_trash
Banned
Senate update and the impossibility of abolishing it.
Premier Wynne is meeting with Premier Couillard and both said ''Nope'' jointly to Mulcair's wishes of abolishing the Senate
so there you have it, Mulcair promising the impossible confirmed
** Wynne said she will start buying more electricity from Quebec. Couillard is the bestest federalist Premier ever
Premier Wynne is meeting with Premier Couillard and both said ''Nope'' jointly to Mulcair's wishes of abolishing the Senate
so there you have it, Mulcair promising the impossible confirmed
** Wynne said she will start buying more electricity from Quebec. Couillard is the bestest federalist Premier ever
dragonfart28
Banned
Mulcair should open up the constitution.
gutter_trash
Banned
dragonfart28
Banned
Look, we know this already about the provinces.
Mulcair addressed that problem in June.
He will just open up the constitution.
He's already opened the constitution before and made changes, so I don't see why he can't do it again.
There's wrong with a PM that actually wants to do the leg work to get the right results, so let him give it a shot.
http://youtu.be/OeIyTewukMY
Mulcair addressed that problem in June.
He will just open up the constitution.
He's already opened the constitution before and made changes, so I don't see why he can't do it again.
There's wrong with a PM that actually wants to do the leg work to get the right results, so let him give it a shot.
http://youtu.be/OeIyTewukMY
Some times there are, but they don't follow the same dog and pony show that the US parties have, or at least, they don't have to if they go with a primary-style selection process.
Good stuff
gutter_trash
Banned
Mulcair = Mulroney #2
history repeats itself again, added the failures and blowback that follow it afterwards
Absolutely the best. Got a damn good laugh, it's time for the Liberals next.
The senate, what a waste of money that is. I wish someone could get rid of it.
dragonfart28
Banned
I think we need to recognize that abolishing the senate is a long commitment. It won't be done in one term, but once the process is started it could be taken up by different PMs.
gutter_trash
Banned
you are short sighted and only seeing it from a Federal point of view. If you drag this past 2018, you may have to deal with a different Premier who's has his own motives that are completely different then the current Premier. And repeat history
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Another day, another poll with roughly more or less 30/30/30 split. Yawn.
Ewww no we really don't.
gutter_trash
Banned
exactly, why feed the bear when you can starve it?
TheRealTalker
Banned
We need more PKP pictures!
Bonus: Julie Snyder, Québec's Oprah.
the what now?
never heard of her
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So people have covered the process above, but one interesting thing unique to Westminster systems (or maybe other parliamentary systems as well) is that a leader can lose the confidence of his party. This can theoretically happen to a Prime Minister, although in recent memory, has only happened in Australia when Gillard lost her leadership.
Although I guess that's what happened in Alberta as well, come to think of it.
you are short sighted and only seeing it from a Federal point of view. If you drag this past 2018, you may have to deal with a different Premier who's has his own motives that are completely different then the current Premier. And repeat history
Yeaaah. The short sighted view is "this will take time and effort". Not, you know, "WE MUST NEVER CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION BECAUSE IT WILL BE BAD RIGHT NOW NO MATTER HOW STUPID IT IS IN THE LONG RUN TO KEEP THIS BROKEN INSTITUTION!!1!111"
gutter_trash
Banned
Okay, then poke the bear, feed the bear which has been asleep for over 10, 15 years.
Wanna start that cycle again of Provinces bickering, making demands then get mad not getting what they wanted then making threats, okay. For what? just because of the Senate?
seriously? Wanna poke the bear while it is totally asleep? that has been snoozing unprovked for quite some time?
okay, enjoy dealing with PKP during those Constitutional talks past 2018
On a light note - Nardwuar interviews Justin Trudeau!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUAFT_0vKII
He doesn't react that great to Nardwuar's interview style but it's a bad forum for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUAFT_0vKII
He doesn't react that great to Nardwuar's interview style but it's a bad forum for it.
It is not sustainable to keep the constitution under lock and key forever. It's absurd.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
A Constitutional debate is akin to the Charter messes we got into in the 80s/90s. I just don't know if we're ever going to be ready to go through that again.
killer rin
Member
At the same time, we should never be afraid to try to update or improve the Constitution to fit with the realities of the day. Not doing so is what brings you to a situation like the United States is perpetually in with theirs.
gutter_trash
Banned
IMO, Canada should concentrate its ressources at removing barriers that hinder inter-provincial business and trading.
It is rediculous that the RCMP waste its time arresting a man from New Brunswick who bought six cases of beer in Quebec then brought them back to New Brunswick
if it is like that just for beer, imagine it when it comes time to talk about energy, electirciy.
It is easier for Quebec to sell electricity to the state of New York than it is to sell it to Ontario or New Brunswick.
IMO, waste of energy of fluffy over righteous Constitutional debates is wasteful when we should concentrate on making things run smoother, trade more easily within our own borders, make things more efficient, invest in the future.
But nope, lets open the Constitution and spend then next 20 years bickering about Provincial powers and desire for extra powers instead of making things run smooth for all Canadians
I am for less Provincial powers, less Provincial restrictions. Provinces should not be acting like proxy countries.
Constitutional debates would just over fatten the already overly powerful Provinces.
Bring down the provincial walls and let business flow from 1 part of nation to other
Buba Big Guns
Banned
The US for whatever reason considers their constitution sacred. I think the majority of Canadians would be open to updating the constitution.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, but I do agree that we've finally seen the slow death of Quebec nationalism and I don't know if it's worth poking that bear again.
gutter_trash
Banned
firehawk gets it
the BQ is going to die, PKP is a clown and won't win in 2018
all this talk about Constitution would cause a fervor that would make it terrain fertile for PKP to win 2018 and for PKP to start stirring trouble and getting nationalism back up sky high again.
Let nationalism die, wait 10, 15 years, then go back an revisit the constitution.
PKP controls 40% of the media through newspapers, TV, cable news and internet in Quebec. He has the mouth piece to get his omessage out if he ever becomes Premier.
Reopening the Constitution under Mulroney is what gave birth to the Bloc need you forget
It's funny (and sad) how both solitudes don't know anything about the entertainment industry of the other. Although, there's not much to know about the anglo side right now. It's pretty much a wasteland. It's tough to compete with the americans on that turf.
Everything Mulclair has said about the Senate all sounds of political opportunism to try and score easy points with the electorate after a decade of Harper interference and the toxicity he has instilled by manipulating the Senate with all the skills of a Republican.
To me it would be folly to jump straight to the end game, which again "feels" like political mischief, to first use the option of last resort by opening up the constitution for abolition when there are plenty of other recommendations and suggestions to improve Senate functionality that we have not even tried.
I would say let's try those first which buys us some time and allows the Harper stench to dissipate. Given everything else the NDP and Liberals are campaigning on to repeal, put back and correct about the Harper legacy, it seems like their plates will be more than a little full to then also open up delicate constitutional talks given that some provinces have already declared they won't be supporting the effort anyway.
gutter_trash
Banned
the two most populous, most powerful Provinces with the most Senators at that. Giving them up doesn't come without demands
Mulcair has never been able to answer the direct question re:
How do you get around Quebec and Ontario premiers, and then the senate itself, to abolish it?
He keeps talking about mandate. But unless he can convince the Ontario and Quebec people to vote out their governments for a pro-abolishment government - nothing changes because he can't enact the change himself.
How do you get around Quebec and Ontario premiers, and then the senate itself, to abolish it?
He keeps talking about mandate. But unless he can convince the Ontario and Quebec people to vote out their governments for a pro-abolishment government - nothing changes because he can't enact the change himself.
It may sound like 'political opportunism' to you, but it's been a central plank of the NDP for decades. It has *always* been a major issue for them. They would actually be betraying their long time base by not pursuing it.
Because... that's how you do it... What magical answer are you expecting?
The answer I want is the plan to convince the Ontarian and Quebec governments to agree.
So you want him to predict the outcome of negotiations with people he isn't necessarily even sure who they will be, when he's not yet even empowered to begin those negotiations? I'd be far more worried if the NDP were like "Well, we'll give them funding for daycare and then they'll love us and do whatever we say."
It will be hard no matter what, I don't want someone offering to do it and then pretending they have the answers on how. But I think it's worth trying, so the point goes to the one willing to do the work. Because as far as I can tell the *only* way to end "the senate debate" is to get rid of the fucking thing.
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