BigJonsson
Member
Bigger gaffe is calling it a GAF 
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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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I agree with you. I'd much rather raise revenue via increases to income taxes on high earners than by increasing the corporate tax rate. I'm ok with this specific NDP raise due to its low amount, keeping us still competitive with other G7 countries but I wouldn't support further raises. To be honest the point of this small raise seems to me to be an appeasement to the NDP's own anti-corporate left contingent.
Interestingly the NDP's approach is counter to the model of "socialist paradises" like Finland and Sweden, which have low corporate taxes compared to other european countries. Worth noting though that they have incredibly high consumption taxes. The Swedish VAT is 25%. Given the drama around Vancouver rejecting a 0.5% increase to its PST, I have to imagine pitching a substantial sales tax increase to Canadians would be pretty controversial!
Having worked in the Vancouver game industry where we've seen big international corporations enter and exit on a whim I'm pretty skeptical about efforts to bend over backward to entice outside companies. I think the greater path to prosperity for Canada is to nurture a home grown ecosystem and raise up home grown talent and companies that are certain to stick around (eg. Lululemon, Hootsuite).
It's funny because it's actually the opposite. It's specifically targeted to humiliate Muslim women.
matthewwhatever
Member
Modern conservatism is largely built on voter myopia, so your question kind of answers itself.
I mean this:
shows that, rather than being behind by a double-digit margin, Trudeau is actually ahead (with a larger sample size, too), but sure, that NDP poll you were pushing was totally reasonable.
CitizenVectron
Member
I really wish we had more riding-level polls like this. Obviously the money isn't there to do all 338, but even 50 or 60 swing ridings in cities and whatnot would be really valuable. But it's usually papers that pay for local polls, and papers don't do that any more due to the cost and their lack of funds as the medium dwindles.
matthewwhatever
Member
I was trying to explain this to an American, and he just didn't get it -- he just kept saying things like, "If we can do it for congressional districts, you guys should be able to do it for ridings!"
gutter_trash
Banned
NDP on Papineau, my take
the NDP is sinking to a low on the level of the Conservatives with misleading polls and trying to jab Justin in his riding using Conservative playbook tactics.
Justin is going to win Papineau but the NDP is trying to sead INCEPTION into people's brains that Justin is under threat to create a weakness narrative
Harper has mastered this, now Mulcair is adopting that snyde snivillign tactic.
Slimey and ironic since the Lefties complain about Conservative tactics then end up resorting to using them themselves
the NDP is sinking to a low on the level of the Conservatives with misleading polls and trying to jab Justin in his riding using Conservative playbook tactics.
Justin is going to win Papineau but the NDP is trying to sead INCEPTION into people's brains that Justin is under threat to create a weakness narrative
Harper has mastered this, now Mulcair is adopting that snyde snivillign tactic.
Slimey and ironic since the Lefties complain about Conservative tactics then end up resorting to using them themselves
CitizenVectron
Member
If you look at the margins of error, the NDP and other poll are actually very close. And of course they released it as a jab to Trudeau. That's what parties do, try and convince people to change their vote. The NDP obviously figures that by letting people know it's so close that they can get more soft NDP and Bloc voters to double-down on NDP to defeat Trudeau.
matthewwhatever
Member
Kevin Page, the former Parliamentary Budget Officer, isn't very impressed by the NDP's costing document:
matthewwhatever
Member
From CBC: Vote Compass: Harper, Trudeau seen as winners in economy debate
I'm posting this because it's part of a bigger trend I've been noticing: the NDP is surprisingly weak when it comes to online activity, whether it's their own or from their supporters. After both debates, Mulcair was in last place when it came to Twitter traffic and Google searches, and now we see him getting trounced in CBC's coverage (admittedly, not the most accurate gauge of support). Is the stereotype that NDP support skews younger -- and, consequently, presumably more tech-savvy -- not actually true?
I'm posting this because it's part of a bigger trend I've been noticing: the NDP is surprisingly weak when it comes to online activity, whether it's their own or from their supporters. After both debates, Mulcair was in last place when it came to Twitter traffic and Google searches, and now we see him getting trounced in CBC's coverage (admittedly, not the most accurate gauge of support). Is the stereotype that NDP support skews younger -- and, consequently, presumably more tech-savvy -- not actually true?
I don't understand. Why can they do it and we can't?
I thought Mulcair wasn't a lefty.
Federal pharmacare program announced by NDP.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politi...support-for-universal-drug-coverage-1.2570128
With this and daycare the NDP is definitely the party actually making announcements about expanding social services.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politi...support-for-universal-drug-coverage-1.2570128
With this and daycare the NDP is definitely the party actually making announcements about expanding social services.
This is still a really shitty result for a national party leader who's occasionally in the lead of national polls. Please note too that doubling the sample only improves the MOE by 1.5%. Like, there are problems with the other poll but holy shit man it really got to you.
And it's not like CROP is gold standard, but Mainstreet is basically the new kid on the block.
There've been quite a few demographic breakdowns that show the NDP attracting older voters, so yes this is definitely true. The NDP are trying to do an end run around the Liberals and Mulcair's (stupid imo) joke about Trudeau smoking pot shows it. I think they're more trying to attract the baby boomers who voted NDP in the 80s than the current crop of younger NDP voters, who they may see as both somewhat of a shoe in and unreliable at the ballot box. Not what I'd have gone with, but it'll probably do well for them.
Terra Firma
Banned
About time.
Here's the breakdown I see for what demographics each is targeting hard:
Liberal Younger Generation = Liberals
Moderate Older Generation = NDP
Selfish and Racist People = Conservatives.
gutter_trash
Banned
Former card carrying member of the Bloc turned Conservative MP Denis Lebel has been going on a tour in rural ridings and right leaning Nationalist ridings re-igniting the debate surround burkas, niqabs and stuff like that to rile up support for Conservative.
Conservatives are sending secret signals across Canada with terms like ''Old Stock Canadians'' in Engish while making Lebel tour throughout Quebec with his Niqab-gate to pick up the remnants from the Charter of Values debate of 2013.
Conservatives are sending secret signals across Canada with terms like ''Old Stock Canadians'' in Engish while making Lebel tour throughout Quebec with his Niqab-gate to pick up the remnants from the Charter of Values debate of 2013.
I'm not debating what he did but he was in Trois-Rivières and Quebec City this week. Hardly "rural". And Quebec City is probably the least nationalist city in the province, after the West Island (Montreal) and maybe Gatineau (since it's close to Ottawa).
Overlaying the map of ridings the Ontario NDP hold vs the map the Federal NDP hold in Ontario and looking at the ridings the Ontario NDP hold that the feds don't gives an indication of what the Federal NDP's strategy is oriented towards. Essentially they're going after disaffected Conservative voters in working class rust belt, conservative leaning ridings. This is the explanation for the NDP promising a balanced budget as that plays well with these sort of conservative leaning the NDP is hoping to woo over.
This article about the NDP's approach this election is worth a read.
The NDP traditionally does very well with university students. This time around the NDP is giving them less attention and banking that they'll stay loyal.
The Liberal path to victory is to bring back urban and suburban ridings that were previously theirs but which moved over to the Conservatives over the years, and to try to snatch away a few urban ridings from the NDP. Consequently the Liberals are focusing a lot more on young people than the NDP.
The results of the Trinity Spadina fight between Chow and Vaughan and perhaps to a lesser extent Vancouver Centre will be indicative of whether the NDP have been able to hold onto student loyalty or whether it has slipped away to the Liberals.
Edit: At this time I'm betting that the Liberals will hold Vancouver Centre, so what I mean is it will be interesting to see if the level of NDP support remains about the same and the Libs win due to a conversion of Conservative support, or whether the NDP support collapses. It will be hard to say what the results mean because I feel that he riding has demographically become older and less student oriented over the years.
This article about the NDP's approach this election is worth a read.
The NDP traditionally does very well with university students. This time around the NDP is giving them less attention and banking that they'll stay loyal.
The Liberal path to victory is to bring back urban and suburban ridings that were previously theirs but which moved over to the Conservatives over the years, and to try to snatch away a few urban ridings from the NDP. Consequently the Liberals are focusing a lot more on young people than the NDP.
The results of the Trinity Spadina fight between Chow and Vaughan and perhaps to a lesser extent Vancouver Centre will be indicative of whether the NDP have been able to hold onto student loyalty or whether it has slipped away to the Liberals.
Edit: At this time I'm betting that the Liberals will hold Vancouver Centre, so what I mean is it will be interesting to see if the level of NDP support remains about the same and the Libs win due to a conversion of Conservative support, or whether the NDP support collapses. It will be hard to say what the results mean because I feel that he riding has demographically become older and less student oriented over the years.
gutter_trash
Banned
everything outside of Monteral is rural to me
I hate this attitude when it comes from Torontonians, and it's no less douche-y when applied to Montreal.
I don't know. Most of Canada outside the 4 major city centres - Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal is a completely different experience. In comparison, they are rural.
Wait, Hedy Fry is still around? heh, Who knew?
I grew up in a small farming town in southwestern Ontario of 5,000 people. My house backed on to a corn field.
That's rural.
I went to university in downtown Toronto. I have experienced both extremes.
I now live in a 905 suburb of 100,000 people and rapidly growing. That's not rural.
Ottawa is not rural. Quebec city is not rural. Halifax is not rural.
I won't convince you out of the above statement, but as someone who actually worked on a farm growing up, goddamn do I hate the quoted attitude.
Terra Firma
Banned
To many people, not having a subway system disqualifies you from being considered urban.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Calgary and Ottawa (and Edmonton) pretty much have the same population. They are not rural. Winnipeg and QC are not rural. Have you even been to any of those places?
At least you can acknowledge the bias, but there are more than two experiences in this country.
The fact that you qualify both rural and suburban experiences as "bad" in comparison to an urban experience is also fucked up imo.
I remember a couple years ago talking to my gf who called a friend living right next to Main street station on the Danforth as "living in the suburbs."
My response was that in my opinion anyone within walking distance of a TTC subway station can't be said to be in the suburbs.
Different perspectives.
I have been to Edmonton and Ottawa out of the budget Canadian cities. I don't know why anyone would ever need to go to Winnipeg except for unfortunately being born there. Calgary is on the edge of joining the major 3, and only reason they are there is due to the huge construction boom in the last 10 years. They may have the same population but they don't have the same money.
They are bad though in comparison. There is not a single experience they provide that I can't get better in the top 3 cities.
Boring suburban cul-da-sacs may as well be farms as far as I'm concerned.
Goldenroad
Member
I can drive 5 minutes in any direction and be surrounded by nature and away from the city lights/traffic/noise. I'm not saying that makes where I live any better, but it is an experience that the "top 3" cities can not provide. I know....I know...fuck nature, fuck the environment, all hail the concrete jungle....but man, that's really not for everyone.
Right, like I said. That attitude makes you a douche.
I'm OK with that. You can't argue the experience angle though. No matter how you look at it (unless you're a hermit who wants to live in a cabin in the woods), it's a sub-par experience.
I can do the same thing (well take public transit or walk because I'm not a burden on the environment and because my city allows me to do so) to one of the best urban parks in the entire world (stanley park).
Funny thing about this is you are fucking nature and the environment with your car and your sub-urban lifestyle that takes up way too much land and resources per capita.
As Goldenroad just proved above, the "experience angle" can be argued in one second by pointing to the "nature" argument.
I mean, this is fucking Canada. Our natural beauty is kind of our thing.
You are essentially saying that the vast majority of Canadians are either inferior, or have an inferior "Canadian experience."
The absurdity of that astounds me.
(But then, here I am caught in an argument with Tabris. Joke's on me
)LMAO, say you can match the environmental experience of anywhere in the country by taking a walk through a pretty urban park, brehs. Really?
Goldenroad
Member
Wow....just wow. So Stanley Park is 5 minutes (walking time) in any direction? Unless you actually sleep under a rock in Stanley Park that makes no sense.
Please see the above edit to my post. Nature is all around me living in Vancouver, easily accessible from public transit where I can go to the beach, to large parks / forests, to mountains for hiking or snowboarding, etc. And I'm doing a better job ensuring our nature is maintained with my city centre lifestyle.
They aren't inferior but their experience definitely is. They are missing out on the multi-culturism fabric that these city centres bring as one good example.
CitizenVectron
Member
And someone from Mexico City, Tokyo, or Beijing would say that Tabris and his Toronto friends are all country hicks, too.
There is no such thing as a defining line of what is urban/suburban/rural, and there is definitely more than 2 experiences in Canada.
There is no such thing as a defining line of what is urban/suburban/rural, and there is definitely more than 2 experiences in Canada.
I like how you ignored my statement re: nature and the environment as you know it's true.
But I can take a 5 minute bus ride to Stanley Park one way, a 5 minute walk another direction to another large park, a 5 minute walk in 2 other directions for a sea wall.
Nature is all around me.
CitizenVectron
Member
Multiculturalism is definitely a plus in most cases, but that's not what makes an urban centre. Tokyo is much bigger than Toronto and it is incredibly homogeneous in terms of ethnicity, yet is diverse in terms of internal culture.
It also depends what you like. If you like living in the mountains with a clear lake outside your front door, then a big city is definitely inferior. It all depends on what you like, man.
Goldenroad
Member
You're in a park surrounded by a city. That ain't nature. Every city, big and small has parks. You're comparing apples and oranges. I'm talking about driving 5 minutes and being outside of the city...whatever, like I say, it's not something that is appealing to everyone (myself included), but it is a different experience than being stuck in a metropolis.
Once again, bolded. You want nature but you don't respect nature.
But what's the difference being in a forrest inside or outside an urban area when the park is so large you can't hear the urban noises. Have you ever been to Stanley Park? Have you ever been to a city like Vancouver? I don't know how you can consider yourself stuck in a metropolis when nature is available all around you easily accessible by walking or public transit.
Anyways, this isn't the thread for this argument. If you want this argument, see my thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1037074
Goldenroad
Member
I really don't, but thanks for pointing out that thread I will be sure to avoid.
You have to give props to Harper on the Niqab controversy. He had planned this all along. if he had wanted to close the debate he would have passed the law banning it from citizenship ceremonies before the election instead of introducing the idea at the last minute before the campaign.
I doubt a lot of people would disagree on the fact that you should show your face when you want your citizenship but to make it an election issue is of poor taste.
I doubt a lot of people would disagree on the fact that you should show your face when you want your citizenship but to make it an election issue is of poor taste.
That's not a 5 minute drive away either. You can access that from downtown Vancouver the same way you would access it from a suburban city.
Here's an example of a view accessible from public transit in Vancouver. Not any different from your image except summer vs winter:
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