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[maharg]

Much shock. Many surprise.

Less sarcastically, it's pretty obvious that Trudeau campaigning on this was a cynical ploy (whether his or his handlers) to pull in left-wing voters. I don't want to hear about how wonderful and uncynical a guy Trudeau is anymore.

 

[bremon]

I'm not surprised but I am disappointed and angered by the casual abandonment of a campaign promise. Vague reasons for it when they never stated a clear objective or goalpost; just vague bs. Meanwhile Rona Ambrose has stated that the CPC says that they can let it slide because they understand there are other priorities to focus on (despite the fact the CPC tears any other little thing to shreds and the fact that electoral reform hurts them, she expects us to believe she's extending an olive branch to the Liberals). What a joke.

 

[Kifimbo]

My sympathy for everyone who sincerely believed electoral reform would happen.

 

[maharg]

My sympathy for everyone who sincerely believed electoral reform would happen.

Hah. No one believed it would really happen the moment the Liberals won a majority. But realpolitik is bullshit that drives politics to the bottom every time. He promised it and he didn't follow through, and that's something people should say something about, whether they expected him to or not.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Much shock. Many surprise.

Less sarcastically, it's pretty obvious that Trudeau campaigning on this was a cynical ploy (whether his or his handlers) to pull in left-wing voters. I don't want to hear about how wonderful and uncynical a guy Trudeau is anymore.

Or:

Like Harper's Senate pledge it sounded good at the time then became a whole lot more complicated when you look at the details. Neither is a great look.

I'm not surprised but I am disappointed and angered by the casual abandonment of a campaign promise. Vague reasons for it when they never stated a clear objective or goalpost; just vague bs. Meanwhile Rona Ambrose has stated that the CPC says that they can let it slide because they understand there are other priorities to focus on (despite the fact the CPC tears any other little thing to shreds and the fact that electoral reform hurts them, she expects us to believe she's extending an olive branch to the Liberals). What a joke.

Just looking from the other side of the coin though, most Conservatives and some Liberals don't want ER in any form. The voters I mean, ER is only barely more popular than 'no ER', and in the ER camp there's barely a consensus on MMP. If MMP went though there's a way of looking at it to say only about 25% of the people got what they wanted, which isn't great either.

I think the MMP people have work to do in gaining support, personally.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Now get rid of fixed election dates!

 

[Killa Sasa]

That's trash. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Glad he's looking at buffing cyber security. Should get on media standards and social media harassment regulations as well while we're ahead of it.

 

[gabbo]

i had hoped for something more substantial than just nothing

 

[Heshinsi]

Wonder if they realized with all the Trump stuff going on it would be a perfect time to sweep it under the rug?

Is he fucking stupid? Right wing populism is raising across the western world, and he drops one of the things that can prevent them from getting a majority government?

 

[Pedrito]

More insulting then droping the promise is the way they handled the whole thing. They have the worse fucking strategists/advisors.

Monsef should walk out after being used and ridiculed like that. Then again, she got a nice pay raise out of it.

 

[jstripes]

Well apparently the Liberals are dropping election reform. We'll see what the statement says.

ffs.

That's gonna hurt them in the next election, and without reform, it has potential to hurt them doubly.

 

[bremon]

Or:

Like Harper's Senate pledge it sounded good at the time then became a whole lot more complicated when you look at the details. Neither is a great look.



Just looking from the other side of the coin though, most Conservatives and some Liberals don't want ER in any form. The voters I mean, ER is only barely more popular than 'no ER', and in the ER camp there's barely a consensus on MMP. If MMP went though there's a way of looking at it to say only about 25% of the people got what they wanted, which isn't great either.

I think the MMP people have work to do in gaining support, personally.

I understand the reasons for it, but he should never have opened his big mouth about it. He could have just inserted an "ah" or "um" between those "uh"s instead of a lie. When you're coming up with campaign promises a brief look at the details should be a prerequisite to spouting off about it.

 

[Zeeman]

I don't think they could have handled this issue worse.

 

[Simon Belmont]

I don't think they could have handled this issue worse.

Silver lining if you're an ER fan, they didn't send it to die in a referendum.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Trudeau abandons pledge on electoral reform


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is abandoning his long-held promise to change the way Canadians vote in federal elections.

In a mandate letter for newly appointed Democratic Institutions Minister Karina Gould, Trudeau makes it clear that electoral reform – once top of mind for the Liberal government – is no longer on the agenda.

“Changing the electoral system will not be in your mandate,” the prime minister writes in the letter, released Wednesday.

A variety of consultations across the country have shown that Canadians are not clamouring for a change in the way they choose their federal government, the letter continues. It also rules out the possibility of a national referendum.

“A clear preference for a new electoral system, let alone a consensus, has not emerged,” Trudeau writes. “Furthermore, without a clear preference or a clear question, a referendum would not be in Canada’s interest.”

Trudeau repeatedly promised – both as a campaigning Liberal leader and as prime minister in a speech from the throne – to get rid of the current first-past-the-post voting system in time for the 2019 federal election.

The Liberals have since given themselves some wiggle room, saying they would not go ahead without the widespread support of Canadians.

Canadians made their views known through the House of Commons special committee on electoral reform, town halls held by MPs from all parties, the travels of former minister Maryam Monsef and a much-maligned online survey called MyDemocracy.ca.

The mandate letter shows that Trudeau and do not believe those consultations have produced their desired – albeit undefined – level of support for electoral reform, let alone any clarity on a preferred replacement.

The about-face is sure to provoke a passionate response from their political rivals.

The New Democrats, who have long called for a system of proportional representation, went into a meeting with Gould on Tuesday hoping to hear the new minister repeat Trudeau’s original, unequivocal promise: that the 2015 vote would be Canada’s last under first-past-the-post.

“That is why that ministry exists,” MP Nathan Cullen, the NDP’s democratic reform critic, said Tuesday. “That’s why she sits in cabinet, in large part – it’s to fulfill that promise.”

The Conservatives, who had pushed for a referendum, are likely to be pleased with the status quo, but will no doubt excoriate the government for breaking such a prominent campaign commitment.

There are also some big new items in the mandate letter.

Trudeau wants Gould, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale to come up with ways to defend the Canadian political system against cyberthreats and hackers – a possible consequence of the “voter fraud” and hacked email controversies emanating from the raucous U.S. election.

“This should include asking the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) to analyze risks to Canada’s political and electoral activities from hackers, and to release this assessment publicly,” he writes.

Trudeau also wants the three ministers to ask the CSE to “offer advice” to Elections Canada and political parties – including opposition parties – on “best practices” regarding cybersecurity.

The letter also asks Gould to take the lead on developing legislation to bring stricter rules – and greater transparency – to political fundraising, a response to months of negative headlines about so-called cash-for-access Liberal fundraisers.

The promised legislation would require cabinet ministers, party leaders and leadership candidates to publicly advertise their fundraisers in advance, and release a report after the fact with details of the event.

The proposed new law, if passed, would also require events to take place in publicly available spaces, a move designed to address concerns about well-heeled donors bending the ears of cabinet ministers in private homes.

“Other measures may follow after discussion with the other political parties,” Trudeau writes.

The letter also repeats earlier commitments, such as repealing some elements of the previous Conservative government’s Fair Elections Act and exploring the idea of an independent commissioner to organize leaders’ debates during federal elections.

It also includes reviewing campaign spending limits and working with Treasury Board President Scott Brison and Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould to increase the openness of government, including reviewing the Access to Information Act.

lol

Sorry Liberal voters you were scammed and you fell for it.

 

[Simon Belmont]

lol

Sorry Liberal voters you were scammed and you fell for it.

Not every liberal voter voted for ER. That's a silly line to draw.

 

[KarmaCow]

I don't think they could have handled this issue worse.

Short of still being stuck with FPTP, this is the worst part. Should have expected that this would happen but fuck.

 

[mullet2000]

lol

Sorry Liberal voters you were scammed and you fell for it.

Very disappointing and I will remember that when the next election cycle comes around, Justin.

Especially since I think we need it now more than ever, looking at our southern neighbours.

 

[killer rin]

lolberals

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-system-before-2019-election/article33855925/

I'm going to enjoy watching as the Liberals lose their government in 2019 to the Conservatives as the NDPers and Cons jumps back to their own parties without the threat of Harper to unite them.

My sympathy for everyone who sincerely believed electoral reform would happen.

To be fair, we all knew this was going to happen the moment they got their majority government. Why abandon the system that gave you absolute power on the backs of 39% of voters?

How many of you contacted your MPs about electoral reform?

I contacted both my MPs from before and after I moved houses

 

[Simon Belmont]

How many of you contacted your MPs about electoral reform?

 

[imBask]

How many of you contacted your MPs about electoral reform?

I shouldn't have to call my MP to tell him I want them to do what they said they were going to do, and that doesn't justify them cancelling that same thing because "idk people didn't call lol"

at least give us a chance to vote on it

 

[Simon Belmont]

I shouldn't have to call my MP to tell him I want them to do what they said they were going to do, and that doesn't justify them cancelling that same thing because "idk people didn't call lol"

Actually you do, that is literally the way a reperestative democracy works. Because we don't vote directly on laws.

Fun fact: in the time it takes to post these messages, you can call your MP.

You can even still do this, posting on a message board doesn't help though. They're not reading GAF. They listen to the people who go out of their way to contact them.

 

[gutter_trash]

lol

Sorry Liberal voters you were scammed and you fell for it.

You mean sorry NDP voters.... Liberal voters voted Liberal because Liberals are the natural governing party of Canada

there are way more important issues to tackle right now than that right now,

the re-alignment of the World is changing and we must secure our place, our rightful place with the Good Side in the world.

Your single issue is currently disproportionaly not important in this 2017 climate .

I rather have our government secure our country with alliances with the EU and cover our asses at an eventual US collapse

 

[Apathy]

lol

Sorry Liberal voters you were scammed and you fell for it.

I voted for them and couldn't give a shit about it.

 

[imBask]

Actually you do, that is literally the way a reperestative democracy works. Because we don't vote directly on laws.

Fun fact: in the time it takes to post these messages, you can call your MP.

You can even still do this, posting on a message board doesn't help though. They're not reading GAF. They listen to the people who go out of their way to contact them.

That's just a lazy copout.

It's front and center on their website and their platform. I won't take that as a good justification for canceling it for no apparent reason

 

[Kifimbo]

You mean sorry NDP voters.... Liberal voters voted Liberal because Liberals are the natural governing party of Canada

there are way more important issues to tackle right now than that right now,

the re-alignment of the World is changing and we must secure our place, our rightful place with the Good Side in the world.

Your single issue is currently disproportionaly not important in this 2017 climate .

I rather have our government secure our country with alliances with the EU and cover our asses at an eventual US collapse

Same guy who said this not too long ago:

I want Liberals in power for life and the Electoral system that I want in place is the one that guarantees Liberal majorities

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220727704&postcount=3772

 

[Simon Belmont]

That's just a lazy copout.

It's front and center on their website and their platform. I won't take that as a good justification for canceling it for no apparent reason

Lack of consensus is the apparent reason.

And only only showing up to vote is a lazy cop out if this is that important to you.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Is he fucking stupid? Right wing populism is raising across the western world, and he drops one of the things that can prevent them from getting a majority government?

With proportional systems, right wing extremists can get SEATS. Any chance of a white power group winning a riding? No? Can a white power group get 2% of the vote across Canada and get a seat, a place from which they can speak in Parliament? Hell yes.

Look at UKIP. They've got one seat in the UK parliament and that's from a dude who was a former Tory who stepped down to join UKIP. How many seats do they have European Parliament which is a proportional system? Over a quarter of the UK's seats!

The fascists are scattered across Canada, they meet on message boards. They aren't consolidated geographically, but if we remove that consideration they'll come out of the woodwork.

 

[gutter_trash]

Same guy who said this not too long ago:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220727704&postcount=3772

I am partisan, and I only care about the system the benficts the Liberals most, yeah. I am like that.

Currently, we need stability. Not some minority goverment coalition crap.

With proportional systems, right wing extremists can get SEATS. Any chance of a white power group winning a riding? No? Can a white power group get 2% of the vote across Canada and get a seat, a place from which they can speak in Parliament? Hell yes.

Look at UKIP. They've got one seat in the UK parliament and that's from a dude who was a former Tory who stepped down to join UKIP. How many seats do they have European Parliament which is a proportional system? Over a quarter of the UK's seats!

The fascists are scattered across Canada, they meet on message boards. They aren't consolidated geographically, but if we remove that consideration they'll come out of the woodwork.

Excellent point.
Proportional Representation = Crazy Fringe Parties have a say... including the Fascist Party like in the Italian Parliament where Mussolini's Grand-daughter has a seat

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Unfortunately Trudeau is right when he says theres no consensus or not enough people care out ER. At the same time, a lot of people like FPTP ``because minority governments are bad``

Really wish he had the balls to do the right thing.

 

[Pedrito]

Lack of consensus is the apparent reason.

And only only showing up to vote is a lazy cop out if this is that important to you.

Lack of consensus was predictable from day zero. It's a bogus reason.

Anyway, I don't think it will have much impact on 2019. Outside of political nerds like us, pundits and hardcore NDPers, people will quickly get over it. Let's not forget more than half the population doesn't even know what system we have right now.

Blatantly breaking a major promise will do more damages in itself than dropping electoral reform. Now Conservatives can use that as a talking point even if they never wanted electoral reform in the first place.

 

[Silexx]

I'm going to enjoy watching as the Liberals lose their government in 2019 to the Conservatives as the NDPers and Cons jumps back to their own parties without the threat of Harper to unite them.

My guess is that the Liberals are banking on the threat of Trump to keep them in power in the next election. This includes the scenario where the CPC goes batshit and select a Leitch or O'Leary as their next leader.

 

[Kifimbo]

Currently, we need stability. Not some minority goverment coalition crap.

A Liberal, or Stephen Harper ?

 

[gutter_trash]

Conservatives want FPTP

Liberals want Preferential Ballot

NDP want Proportional Rep.

--------

Conservatives want a nationwide Referendum because they knew that FPTP would win anyway.

no consensus, waste of energy, waste of time.

A Liberal, or Stephen Harper ?

at least Harper was anti-Russia and anti-Putin.... unlike Trump.

so yeah, Harper is better than Trump (yuck, I said something nice about him... gross)

 

[Kinsei]

I'm going to enjoy being forced to vote for liberals due to the fear of a conservative government. Sigh.

 

[AuthenticM]

Looks like I'll vote Bloc again in three years

 

[imBask]

Lack of consensus is the apparent reason.

And only only showing up to vote is a lazy cop out if this is that important to you.

lack of consensus based on what? a shitty form they put on their website that you had to seek out, full of weird biased questions that made no sense?

it's a shitty copout and they never had any intention of going through with this

 

[gutter_trash]

Looks like I'll vote Bloc again in three years

traitor

 

[Simon Belmont]

lack of consensus based on what? a shitty form they put on their website that you had to seek out, full of weird biased questions that made no sense?

it's a shitty copout and they never had any intention of going through with this

Polling done by the Broadbent institute showed MMP had a slight edge in support among the people who supported ER in general.

Of course they wanted to spin it as "majority supports MMP", which is an ironically FPTP reading of the results.

 

[Zeeman]

lack of consensus based on what? a shitty form they put on their website that you had to seek out, full of weird biased questions that made no sense?

it's a shitty copout and they never had any intention of going through with this

Also there seems to have been a clear consensus about getting rid of FPTP, the lack of consensus was about what should replace it. So yeah, just washing their hands of it and leaving FPTP in place is bullshit.

 

[AuthenticM]

traitor

Tell that to Justin. Electoral reform is important. By taking it off the table and breaking his promise, especially in the hypocritical and scummy way he did, he's losing me.

I don't owe him or any liberal anything. They owe me.

 

[JasoNsider]

This is really fucked up and slimey. We're going to have to start making some noise on this and fast. If we get a vote split and end up in O'Leary town because of it, we're totally screwed.

 

[Heshinsi]

With proportional systems, right wing extremists can get SEATS. Any chance of a white power group winning a riding? No? Can a white power group get 2% of the vote across Canada and get a seat, a place from which they can speak in Parliament? Hell yes.

Look at UKIP. They've got one seat in the UK parliament and that's from a dude who was a former Tory who stepped down to join UKIP. How many seats do they have European Parliament which is a proportional system? Over a quarter of the UK's seats!

The fascists are scattered across Canada, they meet on message boards. They aren't consolidated geographically, but if we remove that consideration they'll come out of the woodwork.

I specifically said "majority" governments though lol. I know they'll get seats, but I doubt Conservatives can ever hold majorities ever again.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Also there seems to have been a clear consensus about getting rid of FPTP, the lack of consensus was about what should replace it. So yeah, just washing their hands of it and leaving FPTP in place is bullshit.

There's also people like me who are in favour of ER but not of PR. If PR couldn't win a referendum we shouldn't be putting it in place.

 

[gutter_trash]

Tell that to Justin. Electoral reform is important. By taking it off the table and breaking his promise, especially in the hypocritical and scummy way he did, he's losing me.

I don't owe him or any liberal anything. They owe me.

that is such a Susan Sarandon response

There goes my vote.

this one too

 

[Lexxism]

There goes my vote.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I shouldn't have to call my MP to tell him I want them to do what they said they were going to do, and that doesn't justify them cancelling that same thing because "idk people didn't call lol"

at least give us a chance to vote on it

Yeah the referendum in this case would be the way to go if you truly want opinion on electoral reform.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yeah the referendum in this case would be the way to go if you truly want opinion on electoral reform.

that is exactly what Conservatives want because they know it will fail

 

[Simon Belmont]

You PR people are putting the cart before the horse. If you can't get PR popular enough as an idea to pass a referendum.

Think of it this way: If you were the Government, would you pass a law requiring you to have 50% of the popular vote to govern (in a three party system) if that law didn't even have 50% of the populations support? I'd say no

 

[Zips]

Really stupid to drop the electoral reform with nothing to show for it.

Trudeau is risking the left fracturing again, which gives the Conservatives an opening to take back power. At a time when they are flirting with extremists, this is incredibly stupid.