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[bremon]

You mean sorry NDP voters.... Liberal voters voted Liberal because Liberals are the natural governing party of Canada

there are way more important issues to tackle right now than that right now,

the re-alignment of the World is changing and we must secure our place, our rightful place with the Good Side in the world.

Your single issue is currently disproportionaly not important in this 2017 climate .

I rather have our government secure our country with alliances with the EU and cover our asses at an eventual US collapse

You sound like a Republican.

 

[GSG Flash]

I'm really displeased about this. It seems that the Liberals are getting arrogant already, which is not a good sign. I sent a strongly worded email to my Liberal MP.

 

[AuthenticM]

that is such a Susan Sarandon response

Not everyone is fanatically toeing the Liberal Party like you are. Nor should they be.

If there is a threat that a crazy might end up PM, I'll certainly consider voting otherwise. We'll see in three years. I'm not a single-issue voter.

Right now though, I'm doing my part. I'll get my CPC membership so I can vote for their leader.

 

[mdubs]

More insulting then droping the promise is the way they handled the whole thing. They have the worse fucking strategists/advisors.

Monsef should walk out after being used and ridiculed like that. Then again, she got a nice pay raise out of it.

Monsef probably did as much damage just from "lol math is hard"

 

[gutter_trash]

You PR people are putting the cart before the horse. If you can't get PR popular enough as an idea to pass a referendum.

Think of it this way: If you were the Government, would you pass a law requiring you to have 50% of the popular vote to govern (in a three party system) if that law didn't even have 50% of the populations support? I'd say no

don't worry about them Simon, these are the same people who laughed my off these boards when I predicted a Trudeau majority.

they were all wearing Mulcair beards with a bad standing posture when laughing at me

 

[Simon Belmont]

I'm really displeased about this. It seems that the Liberals are getting arrogant already, which is not a good sign. I sent a strongly worded email to my Liberal MP.

Arrogant would be pushing through ranked ballots. Kicking it down the line is actually practical if your ultimate goal is getting some form of PR.

 

[killer rin]

I specifically said "majority" governments though lol. I know they'll get seats, but I doubt Conservatives can ever hold majorities ever again.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015

~39% got Harper and Trudeau their Majorities, and a 7.6 difference isn't much, especially since the 2015 election had the ABC, Anti-Harper movements on top of the Conservatives overstaying their welcome leading and scandals going into the election which caused Conservatives to either stay home or temporarily park their vote elsewhere

 

[drawkcaB]

Lost my vote for the next election.

 

[gutter_trash]

You sound like a Republican.

Russia wants a weak Europe, wants a distabilized USA and they are getting it done.

Make no mistake about it, Russia is not our friend.

FDR, JFK, LBJ and Obama never trusted Russia and they are not Republicans

 

[Killa Sasa]

Really stupid to drop the electoral reform with nothing to show for it.

Trudeau is risking the left fracturing again, which gives the Conservatives an opening to take back power. At a time when they are flirting with extremists, this is incredibly stupid.

This is what those who are like "eh no big deal" are missing. Can't do too many of these widely and easily seen gaffes and yes, you get fewer chances on the left than the right. This is a double whammy. Easy punish for the Conservatives and disgust from the NDP voters that switched.

Right now they're living on "we won't be as shit as Trump". They better build that back up or hope it crashes and burns (though that'll do its own damage to us and thus the majority party here).

Hope they shape the Fuck up.

 

[Razorskin]

don't worry about them Simon, these are the same people who laughed my off these boards when I predicted a Trudeau majority.

they were all wearing Mulcair beards with a bad standing posture when laughing at me

Don't talk about predictions, Gutter.

Good,

The world does not need another Bush

Thank You Trump



I already bet my neogaf account that Hillary Clinton will win the general election.

I am that confident that Trump won't ever be President

That Mulcair line got me good though :lol

 

[Mailbox]

i really hope the ndp make this a sticking point, because now more than ever we need some sort of proportional rep. especially with the rise of the radical right. this is especially true if the conservatives vote in someone like Leitch

that being said i don't know if this has "lost my vote" next election (mostly because only the ndp & conservatives are the only viable option my riding anyway) but i'd really need to see what the other parties have in store with their leaders and respective positions.

 

[Simon Belmont]

i really hope the ndp make this a sticking point, because now more than ever we need some sort of proportional rep. especially with the rise of the radical right. this is especially true if the conservatives vote in someone like Leitch

"I really hope the NDP makes this a wedge issue in time for the next election"

 

[bremon]

Russia wants a weak Europe, wants a distabilized USA and they are getting it done.

Make no mistake about it, Russia is not our friend.

FDR, JFK, LBJ and Obama never trusted Russia and they are not Republicans

That's not the point I was addressing. Touting JFK as some great man I should trust is laughable anyway. I agree that Russia is the enemy of freedom and democracy.

The point I was addressing is you're falling in line and voting for whoever runs for red in your riding, and happily tout how you don't give a shit about anything but Liberals succeeding. You're the type of voter who would praise your "team" winning by breaking the rules and tradition as long as you get what you want. The ends justifies the means with you as long as the end is Liberals in power indefinitely. A broken campaign promise to you is nothing as long as it's a promise you didn't care about. Sounds like the fervent devotees of another Red party.

Simon is articulating valid opinions with explanations for their rationale while you are contributing the equivalent of "libs won. Deal with it".

 

[Clov]

They're making a huge mistake. Now more than ever we need a system that doesn't split the left vote.

 

[firehawk12]

Please take the NDP outside and shoot it in the head. You can tell me that you took the NDP to the farm so that it could have a safe, happy life in its old age or something.

(Do the same to the Green Party too please)

 

[bremon]

They're making a huge mistake. Now more than ever we need a system that doesn't split the left vote.

This is what upsets me most. Their gaffes are slowly eroding the anti-conservative coalition they put together last time around. 39% isn't a ton. You can't lose that many votes before you're in minority government territory and painted as useless and unable to accomplish anything in the House.

Please take the NDP outside and shoot it in the head. You can tell me that you took the NDP to the farm so that it could have a safe, happy life in its old age or something.

(Do the same to the Green Party too please)

Flushing parties down the toilet flushes our democracy down the toilet. Look how the two party system down south is panning out.

 

[Mailbox]

"I really hope the NDP makes this a wedge issue in time for the next election"

not really what i meant. i meant right now, not in 3 years. considering how weirdly apathetic the libs were yesterday it makes sense for the ndp to ride their ass regarding broken campaign promises. i don't them to act like this means the world like cons did last night and change topics all the time to win political points, u just want them to bring it up t hold libs accountable for broken promises.

 

[Heshinsi]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015

~39% got Harper and Trudeau their Majorities, and a 7.6 difference isn't much, especially since the 2015 election had the ABC, Anti-Harper movements on top of the Conservatives overstaying their welcome leading and scandals going into the election which caused Conservatives to either stay home or temporarily park their vote elsewhere

I'm talking about majorities in a reformed electoral system. Go back to my original post.

 

[imBask]

Flushing parties down the toilet flushes our democracy down the toilet. Look how the two party system down south is panning out.

well I mean, the Bloc still pretends it's there, kinda

 

[Simon Belmont]

not really what i meant. i meant right now, not in 3 years. considering how weirdly apathetic the libs were yesterday it makes sense for the ndp to ride their ass regarding broken campaign promises. i don't them to act like this means the world like cons did last night and change topics all the time to win political points, u just want them to bring it up t hold libs accountable for broken promises.

Fair enough, I posted last page that if you're angry about this, now is exactly the time to call your MP.

 

[Apathy]

This is what upsets me most. Their gaffes are slowly eroding the anti-conservative coalition they put together last time around. 39% isn't a ton. You can't lose that many votes before you're in minority government territory and painted as useless and unable to accomplish anything in the House.


Flushing parties down the toilet flushes our democracy down the toilet. Look how the two party system down south is panning out.

It depends on how many people actually care about electoral reform in the real world. The NDP people here seem to take it as the only important thing to them, even if the libs had kept every other promise they ran on, they would still be asking for Justin's head. Vote whatever you want, we'll see how that goes and how many people stick around with the libs next time around.

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

Lost my vote for the next election.

This is the kind of thinking that just needs to go. You are not voting for the Liberal party because the only issue you care about is voter reform? So because this didn't go how you wanted, you will now allow for potential major social reforms if the conservatives get in (niqab issue of last election), potential stall of climate change work etc or you vote NDP which is essentially useless at this point as that entire party is in disarray and will be come election time.

If you are upset about this (which I'm not saying you shouldn't be cause it's shitty for this to die with no real conclusion or report) then contact your MP and start working to show how big an issue this is.

 

[bremon]

Don't talk about predictions, Gutter.




That Mulcair line got me good though :lol

Gutter breaking election promises too. Learning from the best.

well I mean, the Bloc still pretends it's there, kinda

lol true.

 

[Simon Belmont]

So Trudeau has been bleeding support, partially attributed to the ER file. It'll be interesting to see where that goes now. Is the damage already done, or is there still some bottom left on this.

 

[Mailbox]

Please take the NDP outside and shoot it in the head. You can tell me that you took the NDP to the farm so that it could have a safe, happy life in its old age or something.

(Do the same to the Green Party too please)

you really think a 2 party system is the best idea?

fucking really?

Fair enough, I posted last page that if you're angry about this, now is exactly the time to call your MP.

my MP is NDP, so i kinda doubt that would do all that much, but i'll do so when i get home

 

[gutter_trash]

Don't talk about predictions, Gutter.




That Mulcair line got me good though :lol

Russia interfered in the US election...

it was stollen

 

[Pedrito]

Rona starts QP with "Why are you making our children pay for your poor economic decisions?"
Justins reply by talking about the Canada child benefit

A year ago, the same freaking questions and answers. I guess they'll talk about using jets to fight ISIS next.

 

[Simon Belmont]

you really think a 2 party system is the best idea?

fucking really?



my MP is NDP, so i kinda doubt that would do all that much, but i'll do so when i get home

Hey, even if it helps that MP keep it up as an issue than it's worth your time.

 

[drawkcaB]

This is the kind of thinking that just needs to go. You are not voting for the Liberal party because the only issue you care about is voter reform? So because this didn't go how you wanted, you will now allow for potential major social reforms if the conservatives get in (niqab issue of last election), potential stall of climate change work etc or you vote NDP which is essentially useless at this point as that entire party is in disarray and will be come election time.

If you are upset about this (which I'm not saying you shouldn't be cause it's shitty for this to die with no real conclusion or report) then contact your MP and start working to show how big an issue this is.

I've lived in solidly Conservative ridings my entire life. My vote has never factored into in the formation of my country's government, and now it looks like it never will. I want a government that reflects its electorate instead of having a political party run roughshod over the other 60+% whenever it's in power, even when that particular party actually reflects my values.

 

[Alavard]

Hmm, not much I can do until my riding has our by-election. My riding's MP seat has been vacant since the summer. The by-election hasn't even been called yet, and Trudeau has until Feb 25th to do so.

 

[firehawk12]

you really think a 2 party system is the best idea?

fucking really?

Flushing parties down the toilet flushes our democracy down the toilet. Look how the two party system down south is panning out.

Are you suggesting we don't have a two party system now?

I'm tired of pretending that we have choices and as I've said before, as someone who voted for Layton in Toronto-Danforth in every election, I'm at a point in my life where I'd rather choose between the lesser of two evils rather than be distracted with the fantasy of an NDP government.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Hmm, not much I can do until my riding has our by-election. My riding's MP seat has been vacant since the summer.

Maybe contact the riding associations if there aren't any actual candidates in place yet? You're probably right about it being too early, but there's nothing wrong with early and often if it's very important to you! Call all of em.

 

[djkimothy]

Ugh. they least make election day a national holiday. :/. Do something.

 

[Alavard]

Maybe contact the riding associations if there aren't any actual candidates in place yet? You're probably right about it being too early, but there's nothing wrong with early and often if it's very important to you! Call all of em.

Looks like the Liberal candidate selection will be this coming up Sunday. I'll be speaking with them the following week, once the candidate is in place (I'm in Ottawa-Vanier, so the by-election is almost certainly going to remain Liberal). Thanks for the kick in the butt I needed to contact them about this.

 

[Kyuur]

I'm pissed, but unlikely to sway my vote unless NDP gets a real leader for the next election. I'll vote for the party on the left-center most likely to win and that will be most likely be the libs unless something changes.

 

[orochi91]

The existence of the NDP will probably end up negatively affecting the Liberals in the next election; vote splitting will happen again, thus increasing the likelihood of another Conservative government.

Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that a Conservative government in this current political climate will try to mimic or emulate some of the fuckery happening South of the border. I wouldn't put it past them to flirt with populist policies just so that they can stay in power.

Electoral reform was such a notable part of their election campaign, so why would people trust any of the inevitable promises the Liberals will make during the 2019 election campaign?

 

[Tiktaalik]

lol Real Change™ what a load of garbage.

 

[Mailbox]

Are you suggesting we don't have a two party system now?

I'm tired of pretending that we have choices and as I've said before, as someone who voted for Layton in Toronto-Danforth in every election, I'm at a point in my life where I'd rather choose between the lesser of two evils rather than be distracted with the fantasy of an NDP government.

we are very much in a 3 party system which allows a cooperative attitude towards minority governments than spitefilled shitfests that a 2-party gov would have (seriously look at the US). in fact in a 2 party system there would never even be minority governments at all (would you really want a majority gov all the time).

mind you, i'm pro minority gov't since i see them as being a proper execution of representative parliament and it offers more scrutiny and accountability to active government.

The existence of the NDP will probably end up negatively affecting the Liberals in the next election; vote splitting will happen again, thus increasing the likelihood of another Conservative government.

Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that a Conservative government in this current political climate will try to mimic or emulate some of the fuckery happening South of the border. I wouldn't put it past them to flirt with populist policies just so that they can stay in power.

Electoral reform was such a notable part of their election campaign, so why would people trust any of the inevitable promises the Liberals will make during the 2019 election campaign?

this is the bigger issue, yeah...
hopefully the tories elect someone sensible

lol Real Change™ what a load of garbage.

its probably important not to forget the actual positive changes relating to student debt and the reveral of harpers science silencing last year.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Leitch is prefereable to O'Leary.

That man would love to run Canada like a business. He'd be all about getting the more Conservative members of the Conservatives to gut universal health care and social programmes.

 

[Apathy]

Leitch is prefereable to O'Leary.

That man would love to run Canada like a business. He'd be all about getting the more Conservative members of the Conservatives to gut universal health care and social programmes.

They are equally horrible. It's not a contest between the two of them. Chong is like the most sane person that is currently running

 

[CazTGG]

I'm going to enjoy being forced to vote for liberals due to the fear of a conservative government. Sigh.

This is something I have to echo. I'm infuriated by them abandoning reform, to say nothing of their reason for doing so, but if it prevents a Leitch/O'Leary/CPC-led government from happening, i'll do it. My growing list of disappointment with this government does not preclude me from knowing how much worse the alternative would be and the unlikelihood of the NDP getting their act together (Angus would be my first choice but Kwan made a strong case if she ever decided to join the run).

 

[Mr. F]

Are there any political podcasts folks in here would recommend? I keep up with the US through a couple of their NPR shows but I've found CBC's shows to be kind of dry. Granted I haven't given them a shot in a while.

 

[Mailbox]

Leitch is prefereable to O'Leary.

That man would love to run Canada like a business. He'd be all about getting the more Conservative members of the Conservatives to gut universal health care and social programmes.

O'Leary isn't nearly as radical as Leitch, so no.
they would both be bad though.

They are equally horrible. It's not a contest between the two of them. Chong is like the most sane person that is currently running

Yeah, i don't agree with his polices, but Chong is far and away the most sane and sensible

 

[Pancake Mix]

O'Leary isn't nearly as radical as Leitch, so no.
they would both be bad though.

Radical on only one issue. O'Leary is an arch-capitalist with no record, however, he's scarier. Most Canadians are not single-issue voters on identity.

They would both be bad, I agree.

 

[gutter_trash]

Leitch is prefereable to O'Leary.

That man would love to run Canada like a business. He'd be all about getting the more Conservative members of the Conservatives to gut universal health care and social programmes.

uh no, Leitch is still worse. Social-Conservative worse and Identity-Politics worse

Radical on only one issue. Most Canadians are not single-issue voters on identity.

They would both be bad, I agree.

but lots of Lefty voters here are Single Issue voters on Electoral Reform, LOL

 

[Pancake Mix]

uh no, Leitch is still worse. Social-Conservative worse and Identity-Politics worse

but lots of Lefty voters here are Single Issue voters on Electoral Reform, LOL

I'm not a single issue voter. If I voted Tory I'd have to pick Leitch over O'Leary, no question.

 

[Mailbox]

Radical on only one issue. Most Canadians are not single-issue voters on identity.

regardless i'd rather not have someone who believes in purity tests and whose campaign manager says "cuck" unironically being in charge of the Conservative party of canda

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm not a single issue voter. If I voted Tory I'd have to pick Leitch over O'Leary, no question.

why not Chong? why not Raitt?

LOL Bernier, hahahaha pfff I had to laugh at Max at least once today

seriously bro, Leitch is evil .

Even Mulroney was unable to reverse the abortion laws in the 1980s and Harper didn't even dare touch it. Harper gagged his MPs to shut up about Abortion.

But Leitch??? seriously dude, she would open up that Abortion can again and it would send women back to the 1950s

 

[firehawk12]

we are very much in a 3 party system which allows a cooperative attitude towards minority governments than spitefilled shitfests that a 2-party gov would have (seriously look at the US). in fact in a 2 party system there would never even be minority governments at all (would you really want a majority gov all the time).

mind you, i'm pro minority gov't since i see them as being a proper execution of representative parliament and it offers more scrutiny and accountability to active government.

Minority governments under FPTP only happen because of regionalism though and a fractured opposition. The last time it almost happened in the UK, for example, was because Labour was considered shit and Scottish Nationalism was on the rise. Then Nick Clegg sold his soul and we all know how that turned out.

For it to happen here again, we would either need the Bloc to surge and capture most of Quebec's seats, or for some other province to feel slighted and vote for their own party that has no affiliation to one of the three national brands. So unless Ontario decides to start separation movement and creates the Ontario Party, I'm not sure what's supposed to happen.

The American political institutions realized long ago that being the third party in a FPTP system means irrelevance and division, which is why they have either disappeared or have turned into funky party organizations like the Minnesota Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party, which represents the Democrats of course, but as the name suggests, is a coalition.

Even in Australia, which has AV for the House, they've basically found themselves in a defacto 2-party system because everyone realised that they would be better off working with other parties through mergers. I mean the centre-right government is literally called the Coalition after all.

Now would I prefer a Liberal government propped up by the NDP? Sure. But right now the only way that will happen is if Trudeau offends Quebec enough for the Bloc to steal their votes again, and I don't know if having yet another resurgent era of sovereignty is worth it.

(Of course, you just have to look at the Knesset to see that minority governments governed by coalitions can turn into a shit show as well)