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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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killer rin
Member
The thing about Alcohol is that did you know it is technically illegal to bring Booze across provincial lines? Yeah, its being contested in the court system with the Atlantic provinces leading the charge, but its still technically illegal. Not to mention the bullshit laws across each province that serves to make it way more expensive for small businesses to operate, either from differing container size requirements or alcoholic content requirements.
Most of those seem like logical protections to keep American companies from totally overwhelming Canadian ones in all industries.
And yeah - letting the U.S., home of the NSA, host email servers for Canadian government offices is a matter of national security. No shit. Stupid to argue otherwise.
I'd also prefer Canadians not become overly dependent on American farmers for food, so what protects that sounds fine too.
I really hope the government doesn't bend over for this supposed renegotiation.
And yeah - letting the U.S., home of the NSA, host email servers for Canadian government offices is a matter of national security. No shit. Stupid to argue otherwise.
I'd also prefer Canadians not become overly dependent on American farmers for food, so what protects that sounds fine too.
I really hope the government doesn't bend over for this supposed renegotiation.
KernelPanic
Member
I don't want US gaining majority ownership in any telecom companies. That's the kind of law that keeps Fox News out
As if we are going to store federal government data on their cloud servers LOL they're on crack.
As if we are going to store federal government data on their cloud servers LOL they're on crack.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I don't know, I think provinces should be able to regulate alcohol sale and tax them as they see fit. Different provinces have different needs. No big deal, it's just alcohol, we get enough deaths or sickness as a result of it not to require deregulation or lower taxes/costs.
For food, the government should be investing massively in making Canada more independent. Iceland has so much energy, yet it imports nearly all its food. In the future they'll be able to grow everything indoor, even fricking bananas. It's just a matter of having cheap energy and advanced technology. But politicians are too short-sighted to kickstart this. We're only see the slow emergence of this at very local levels, such as urban farming, which is far from adequate.
Not if it means they start permitting the shit Americans put in their dairy.
4 bucks is not exactly bank-breaking for dairy - and i'll pay it to keep shitty american dairy out
killer rin
Member
Except, we are one single country, not 10+3 islands. It should not be harder to purchase something one province over than it is to buy something from the USA. In fact, there is no logical reason why the provinces have such strong control over the substances, the most they should be able to say is Age (beyond a federal minimum), additional taxes, and an overall yes/no veto to the item in the province. Other than that, harmonize it across provincial lines and make it easier for businesses to operate.
No differing bottling requirements, no restrictions for cross-province buying. And I say this as somebody who doesn't drink.
This, I want cheaper dairy products as much as anyone, but we can NOT allow the USA to just dump their products in Canada unless they fit Health Canada Guidelines, and when it comes to the USA; their meats and dairy products are loaded with substances we have either banned or greatly restricted
killer rin
Member
Yes, but knowing Republicans in the USA, they won't stop at the tariffs, they'll also go after our regulations because their businesses won't want to fit our regulations.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Those aren't reasonable demands, it's not even a starting point...if there was a level playing field. There's not though, and that's why this won't be fun.
Pray for CETA.
Pray for CETA.
I'd rather not have the piss the US calls milk, thanks very much.
Canada's not going to budge on the regulations. My memory may be failing me on the time and specific details but there was a substance that was used in America to clean people, namely children, that never crossed the borders because one of our ministers knew the largely negative effects said substance would cause if used in Canada, namely since said substance would cause several defects in the children it was used on. Tariffs are one thing, regulations in regards to health are another.
lol
you know those gaf members who are deciding to specifically join the conservatives in order to kick extremism to the curb?
They noticed http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/conservative-vote-1.3963530
you know those gaf members who are deciding to specifically join the conservatives in order to kick extremism to the curb?
They noticed http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/conservative-vote-1.3963530
killer rin
Member
I'd be surprised if they didn't notice the influx of party memberships from people that would otherwise never have gotten them.
That said, I doubt party leadership will do anything though. They are enjoying the extra money and I doubt they are too disappointed with a bunch of people who would otherwise not vote Conservative helping them pick a candidate they would be able to vote for when Trudeau inevitably overstays his welcome
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
The party leaders will pick their candidate and say the vote was just to hear the members' opinions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COfPiYl5aKI
CPC debate. On the topic of sexual assault only Lisa Raitt brought up the issue of women not being believed. (Well, Chris Alexander agreed with her on the issue, but he answered right after her and I don't think he would have brought it up otherwise). The lack of women up there is striking. (Leitch wanted to arm women with spray and stuff).
In general the Conservatives seem to feel that the left is overly worried with helping criminals, and not enough for the victims. I don't know how true that is, but that's the feeling there.
CPC debate. On the topic of sexual assault only Lisa Raitt brought up the issue of women not being believed. (Well, Chris Alexander agreed with her on the issue, but he answered right after her and I don't think he would have brought it up otherwise). The lack of women up there is striking. (Leitch wanted to arm women with spray and stuff).
In general the Conservatives seem to feel that the left is overly worried with helping criminals, and not enough for the victims. I don't know how true that is, but that's the feeling there.
O'Leary made a fool of himself with that question too. "We're not the worst, so stop complaining"
Look, Blaney really wants to join the navy and sail the seven seas, alright?
Chong called out the LPC for abandoning electoral reform, which is unusual since the CPC would be hurt by preferential voting or MMP systems.
UberTag
Member
If anything, we're doing our part to ensure they wind up with an electable candidate in the leadership role that will allow us to not have to defacto vote for Trudeau in the next election out of fear that someone that shares Trump's extreme views could wind up as prime minister. This is a win-win for them, IMO.
They put up someone that doesn't scare the living bajeezus out of us, the left splits out of frustration with Justin and the Tories get to take power again. That's a recipe for success.
lol holy hell Raitt just zingged O'Leary
LOL O'Leary thinks hes going to get the youth vote. WTF.
It was basically turned into a O'Leary roast for a bit there, everyone wanted to get their Fuck O'Leary statement in there.
Us young college-going kiddies don't spend our time watching Dragon's Den, not with all the economic anxiety Chris Alexander thinks we're suffering.
After watching the debate, what's everyone's rankings for the vote looking to be and their reasons for said ranking?
LOL, we want to be able to say shit and not be called out by the humans rights commission as having a phobia. really?
Love how the conservatives bring up the 2055 deficit to scare voters,
https://www.thestar.com/business/20...cades-of-deficits-federal-analysis-warns.html
Love how the conservatives bring up the 2055 deficit to scare voters,
https://www.thestar.com/business/20...cades-of-deficits-federal-analysis-warns.html
UberTag
Member
I didn't get to watch as much of the debate as I would like... but I can at least call out the following...
Most Impressed By: Lisa Raitt (love her wit and her conviction)
Most Disappointed With: Michael Chong (comes off tone-deaf and angry)
Scared to Hell By: Kevin O'Leary (monopolized this debate while seeming completely out of his depth)
Not Worried About Any More: Kellie Leitch (there's no way in hell she accumulates enough support to make a serious run)
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Bernier is completely insane, end of story.
It's not up for debate. O'Leary is scary and I wish his candidacy would go away too. They both have the kind of scary hardcore Reaganomics-esque neoliberal ideas that have long been ignored in Canada.
It's not up for debate. O'Leary is scary and I wish his candidacy would go away too. They both have the kind of scary hardcore Reaganomics-esque neoliberal ideas that have long been ignored in Canada.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Too bad you can't just say "no one" for the first 12. 
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
This O'Toole guy has an interesting idea with CANZUK, can definitely give him that. Free trade, free movement, and closer ties with those countries makes a tonne of sense.
Lisa Raitt is actually polling second highest among actual CPC members. And at this point Chong's chances are very slim to be honest.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/...bdd67FED_Conservative_Leadership_(012217).pdf
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/...bdd67FED_Conservative_Leadership_(012217).pdf
matthewwhatever
Member
I feel like The Beaverton captured Michael Chong perfectly: Michael Chong starting to think Tories arent very left-wing at all
He's gotten way more attention than he really merits, largely because he was one of the few Harper-era MPs willing to talk to the media. I know a fair number of CPC members, and they almost all dislike him on a personal level.
A month or two ago, I'd have said Raitt stood an excellent chance of winning, since she'd be the compromise candidate that everyone would go to as their second or third choice. Now, though...just go look at those fundraising numbers I posted a few pages ago. She's not where she needs to be. O'Toole looks like he's taking the spot that I'd have expected her to be in. I don't think she's out of it, and she's definitely not a longshot, but she'll need to improve quickly if she wants to win.
He's gotten way more attention than he really merits, largely because he was one of the few Harper-era MPs willing to talk to the media. I know a fair number of CPC members, and they almost all dislike him on a personal level.
A month or two ago, I'd have said Raitt stood an excellent chance of winning, since she'd be the compromise candidate that everyone would go to as their second or third choice. Now, though...just go look at those fundraising numbers I posted a few pages ago. She's not where she needs to be. O'Toole looks like he's taking the spot that I'd have expected her to be in. I don't think she's out of it, and she's definitely not a longshot, but she'll need to improve quickly if she wants to win.
I'll take her or O'Toole, he would be fine too. I hope she can turn things around.
Were Chong's chances ever not slim? He's basically the CPC leadership candidate for people who aren't members of the CPC.Lisa Raitt is actually polling second highest among actual CPC members. And at this point Chong's chances are very slim to be honest.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/...bdd67FED_Conservative_Leadership_(012217).pdf
The CPC leadership should be rather alarmed that approximately one third of polled members think turning leadership of the party over to a guy who won't even commit to quitting his reality show in the near future is a good idea.
I'm surprised at how well O'Toole seems to be doing. I'd never heard of him before the race started, and just perusing his resume it doesn't seem like there's anything particularly distinguishing about him. Is he just hitting the Generic White Dude sweet spot?
killer rin
Member
And the truth come out - Fears Of Alt-Right, Divisive Referendum Behind Liberal Electoral Reform Reversal: Insiders
You know, if the Alt-Right argument was the reason, they have already failed. One look across the aisle will tell you all you need to know about certains groups of deplorables trying to take over a weakened yet major party.
It gets more into the Alt-Right argument deeper in the article. There is also the usual argument of really not wanting to do a referendum, the insiders mentioning them not wanting to reopen the Clarity Act, an argument of if 50% would be enough to pass and the issue of what to do if every province but a couple special snowflakes supported it... and also the issue that Trudeau really wanted a Preferential Ballot
You know, if the Alt-Right argument was the reason, they have already failed. One look across the aisle will tell you all you need to know about certains groups of deplorables trying to take over a weakened yet major party.
It gets more into the Alt-Right argument deeper in the article. There is also the usual argument of really not wanting to do a referendum, the insiders mentioning them not wanting to reopen the Clarity Act, an argument of if 50% would be enough to pass and the issue of what to do if every province but a couple special snowflakes supported it... and also the issue that Trudeau really wanted a Preferential Ballot
Lisa Raitt is actually polling second highest among actual CPC members. And at this point Chong's chances are very slim to be honest.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/...bdd67FED_Conservative_Leadership_(012217).pdf
Is this poll from January 2016?
The pdf does say that. But I got it from here, which was posted 2017. http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/...ding-lead-in-conservative-leadership-contest/
Anything about this coming out now seems more like a small amount of damage control overall, even if on a micro-level it still looks like its bad for them
AuthenticM
Member
But would MMP really give a voice to white supremacists? MMP is not pure proportional.
In theory, yes (it also depends on what kind of MMP you're using; if the goal of the distributed seats is to make the Commons in line with the popular vote, for instance). In general, any sort of proportional system would encourage the creation of more political parties representing niche viewpoints, though what viewpoints those would be would be, we'd have to see.
AuthenticM
Member
The crazies being out in the open instead of inside each of the current parties is better in my opinion.
matthewwhatever
Member
Generic White Dude with not much baggage from the Harper years, and who apparently is fairly friendly. Think of him as the Gerard Kennedy option (with the same potential path to victory).
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
What a weak argument, agreed. FPTP encourages a united right which could easily be taken over by said group.
As for the Clarity Act, it shouldn't be relevant for matters affecting most provinces. There was already a special formula for constitutional changes, whereas the Clarity Act is really just about a Quebec referendum and is kind of...unclear and a bit undemocratic as it's talking about something that would only need to be approved in one province. I think, for the sake of democracy, 50 percent + 1 vote makes sense in that regard, not the implied supermajority.
Not that I'd ever want Quebec to leave, obviously. Just being realistic about what a majority vote is.
killer rin
Member
Any well designed MMP system has criteria around getting a Proportional Seat. All countries with MMP put a threshold of at least 3-7% of the vote, some also tacking on a mandatory or optional requirement that the party in question have a single FPTP/AV seat. This is specifically to keep out extremists with little to no support.
Fucking idiots. Weak as hell arguments there. Oh - there could end up being an alt-right person or two in parliament if we switch to a PR system. And? You have a major damn party flirting with the possibility of being led by such individuals now, and under the current system that means they could end up having control of the government. That's so much worse than a seat or two with those people - assuming there aren't safeguards in place to prevent such things to begin with.
Trudeau is being a goddamn idiot. Thanks to him and the Liberals wanting a system that would benefit them, instead of what would be best for the country, we're all going to get screwed.
The reason ranked ballots are good is because right wing would need to add parties and further dilute their vote to more accurate representation.
It would also allow for more regional representation.
People keep looking at the immediate future for ranked ballots, not long term.
We would go from 3 major parties to like 6-8, mixed with proportionality, you would get a more accurate government because people aren't perfect liberals or perfect NDP or perfect conservatives.
Over time you would see a balanced government as the amount of parties grow
It would also allow for more regional representation.
People keep looking at the immediate future for ranked ballots, not long term.
We would go from 3 major parties to like 6-8, mixed with proportionality, you would get a more accurate government because people aren't perfect liberals or perfect NDP or perfect conservatives.
Over time you would see a balanced government as the amount of parties grow
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