Clearly the liberal elite can't see the brilliance of...getting rid of the penny I guess?
I honestly can't think of a less accomplished long-term Prime Minister than Harper.
Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
- Start date
- Status
Clearly the liberal elite can't see the brilliance of...getting rid of the penny I guess?
I honestly can't think of a less accomplished long-term Prime Minister than Harper.
AuthenticM
Member
Can I tear up my CPC card and mail its remains to the party now?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Getting rid of the penny was an excellent, forward-thinking idea, including for cash users. It was also not something there was any inkling that Liberals were of a mind to do or their idea, so we can credit the Conservatives there.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Expansion Pack
Member
Damn forgot Angus doesn't speak French, he was my personal choice for NDP leader. Guess it really is Jagmeet Singh or bust then. Anyone know if he would be open to removing his turban when campaigning in Quebec? Or is that a terrible idea/offensive to Sikhism?
AuthenticM
Member
That's literally the only thing I can think of when this question is brought up, lol.
By dead I mean 5-10 seats dead. They likely aren't going to gain seats in the next election and they may even lose some seats.Polling around 20% means nothing right now for the bloc if the NDP is nipping at their tail and the Liberals are polling like 25-30 percent higher then them.
Really?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So you guys are saying we suffered through ten years of bullshit like destroying the census, being anti-science/climate change, defunding women's reproductive health programs in third world countries, introducing child predators and money wasters into the senate , and etc etc etc just so we could get rid of the penny?????
Bastards didn't even have the decency to send me a card that I could burn and post on youtube. lol
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The NDP does best in Quebec and British Columbia. If they falter there then they're irrelevant.
At the moment they're still a viable third party but if those seat totals drop then they are not in good shape.
Remember, they won a lot of marginals in 2015, quite a bit of light orange here.
At the moment they're still a viable third party but if those seat totals drop then they are not in good shape.
Remember, they won a lot of marginals in 2015, quite a bit of light orange here.
They aren't going to lose many seats in BC at this point. The question is how many seats will they lose in Quebec at this point. Singh if he becomes the next NDP leader may help them win seats in Ontario and keep their sole alberta seat.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
What Quebec base? They all went back to the Liberals or Tories. lol
matthewwhatever
Member
I know what you mean. Like, even Mike Harris, for all the bad stuff he did, still deserves credit for reforming the Ontario school system so that schools were given money on a per-student basis, rather than having rich school boards and poor school boards based on property taxes for the area. He also did all kinds of awful stuff, but there are positives if you look.
The Harper Conservatives? Even their supposed achievement of balancing the budget was built on accounting tricks like selling off buildings and playing around with how they paid public servants. If I were a Conservative, I'd be taking solace in all the lower-court judges that Harper appointed and hoping those paid off down the road, because otherwise, it's pretty thin pickings for actual achievements.
Er, no, they're still the second-largest party in Quebec.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think to be a big deal and a viable third party, even losing those Quebec seats that they kept in 2015 would be really, really bad.
The Alberta seat is irrelevant. Federally, the NDP is in no shape to get more than a seat or two in Alberta, possibly in our lifetimes, so the only benefit to Singh would really be Ontario and British Columbia, assuming he is beneficial, which frankly I don't know. I'm sure he's a great guy but I don't see how he's a particularly amazing candidate (for any party) myself.
16 out of 78 seats is better than nothing.
The key is 16, that's over a third of the NDP's total seats.
The NDP is still polling around the 15-20 percent range in Quebec. The tories are polling even worse then the NDP in Quebec.
I think if they gain some seats in Ontario it would be fine, but they can't lose like 10+ seats in the next election in Quebec.
Reading the comments on CBC was a mistake. Sure there are some Liberal comments, but there are a lot of Conseratives saying some pretty dumb things. And the odd crazy talking about the "alt-left" and WikiLeaks.
Here's one (removed name to respect the commenter's privacy):
"I am delighted. Andrew Scheer will be an excellent leader and I hope we win the next election. If there was some way to impeach Trudeau between now and then it would benefit all Canadians. And, yes, I really mean that. He is the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country. He is damaging this country day-by-day. We need to be vigilant that the next election is valid. Hand counted paper ballots avoid conflict. Any of you criticizing me, check WikiLeaks for Trudeau's communication with Podesta and Clinton to write a speech for him - just before he won the election. That behaviour is far too suspect."
Here's one (removed name to respect the commenter's privacy):
"I am delighted. Andrew Scheer will be an excellent leader and I hope we win the next election. If there was some way to impeach Trudeau between now and then it would benefit all Canadians. And, yes, I really mean that. He is the worst Prime Minister in the history of this country. He is damaging this country day-by-day. We need to be vigilant that the next election is valid. Hand counted paper ballots avoid conflict. Any of you criticizing me, check WikiLeaks for Trudeau's communication with Podesta and Clinton to write a speech for him - just before he won the election. That behaviour is far too suspect."
matthewwhatever
Member
That's a whole lot of stupid for one paragraph. Just...wow.
I know that Harper was all about small change, but this is taking that idea far too literally.
Latest Abacus poll has them at 8% in the province. The Greens have 6%. The Liberals are at 49%. If the NDP want to save their seats in Quebec, they desperately need the LPC to come down to earth significantly, and having no viable Conservative Party and a Bloc whose leader isn't even doing the job full-time won't help with that.
Not going to lie: I only know that Martine Ouellet exists because I was updating this thread's OP, and I discovered the BQ had a new leader. Who'd won by acclaim. And wasn't going to run in a by-election. All signs of a thriving party with a dynamic leader!
I know that Harper was all about small change, but this is taking that idea far too literally.
Latest Abacus poll has them at 8% in the province. The Greens have 6%. The Liberals are at 49%. If the NDP want to save their seats in Quebec, they desperately need the LPC to come down to earth significantly, and having no viable Conservative Party and a Bloc whose leader isn't even doing the job full-time won't help with that.
Not going to lie: I only know that Martine Ouellet exists because I was updating this thread's OP, and I discovered the BQ had a new leader. Who'd won by acclaim. And wasn't going to run in a by-election. All signs of a thriving party with a dynamic leader!
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
What's the problem with Scheer's social conservatism that turns people off here more than Bernier wanting to gut Health Canada, exactly?
A social conservative seeking to change anything drastic would run into the Charter. Starving universal health care and social programmes on the other hand....
A social conservative seeking to change anything drastic would run into the Charter. Starving universal health care and social programmes on the other hand....
Latest Nanos poll shows the opposite from what I seen. It shows them polling around 17 percent in Quebec while the CPC is polling barely above 10 percent.And Ouellet is irrelevant. The bloc has an issue attracting people to support them now and Quellet won't help them with that. The fact she won by acclimation shows us that not many people want to support or run for that party right now.
Edit: Looked at the recent Abacus poll and they showed the NDP at 20% in Quebec. Interesting.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
Are you kidding me?! Bernier wanted to transfer health care to provinces, where it belongs. And you're comparing that to a christian homophobe?!
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Health care to provinces? Provinces would not be able to fucking fund health care remotely equally after he ended transfer payments.
That Christian homophobe you speak of would run into opposition from his own party in 2017 and total opposition from the Supreme Court.
Hours Left
Member
The CPC will always be the party of bigotry and climate denial. This giant, tedious, farcical race to end up exactly where they started. Ridiculous.
AuthenticM
Member
Oh, I know. Bernier and O'Leary were the two most dangerous candidates.
gutter_trash
Banned
Bernier was an idiot peddling libertarian stances that miffed Conservatives.
He could have won this.
Now they have a pudgy uncharismstic potato head as leader in Scheer.
I don't even know what Scheer stands for, he is so soporific sounding
Expansion Pack
Member
Yeah, really. I'm looking at some of the people over at r/quebec and a lot of them are saying they wouldn't vote for him because he displays his religion so openly (not for xenophobic or racist reasons but because secularism at the governmental level is important to them). So removing the turban when he's in Quebec could be an option is what I'm thinking unless that's offensive to Sikhism of course.
But then again r/quebec is full of diehard PQ and QS supporters so maybe it's not representative of the general population and maybe an NDP led by Singh is viable after all.
But it's serious gamble given Quebec's history with religion.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Indeed, the Conservatives aren't going to touch same-sex marriage anymore.
As far as many are concerned, this ended it.
Bernier would have gutted health care as you know it and ended transfer payments for the poorer provinces to cope.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
That's why Bernier wanted to transfer tax points?! Provinces hike taxes while the feds decreases them. Sorry but I can't see a religious guy who is socially conservative to have seats in QC. The province hates anything that is religious.
Yeah I'm surprised. /r/metacanada (a shithole that no one should visit) is so salty right now.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I'm loathe to admit it because I think Harris policies were not just forgettable but completely destructive, but his government actually implemented a concrete set of policies. Meanwhile, we get "less government" from Harper, whatever that means. lol
I mean, 16 to 12... I guess 4 more is still better than 0?
Well, the Tories have always had that reliable Quebec City/rural vote that I assume they can count on. They're going to gun for Ontario for sure.
I just don't see how they swing hard enough to take a considerable amount of Liberal seats, which is actually what it would take for them to make Quebec viable now that their position in Ontario, or at least the "GTHA" (I hate that we just keep creating new areas lol) is incredibly weak.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Do you think PEI or Nunavut will be able to provide adequate healthcare without transfers?
How does the Federal Government enforce the health act if they're not holding the purse strings?
If the CPC starts polling below 10% in Quebec they can't really rely on that reliable Quebec City/rural vote anymore. The Bloc and the Liberals will start stealing votes from them in those areas.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
There's not a lot Bernier said that would have worked in practice. It really is as simple as transferring health care to provinces and subsequently cutting transfer payments. That's a disaster right there.
I didn't say anything about a religious person getting seats in Quebec, but frankly, the Conservatives weren't going to do well outside of Quebec with Bernier as he doesn't speak impeccable English for starters (yes, voters can be like that), and his polices are a little out there even for his party.
I can't speak for Quebec, but religion is still relevant in many ridings in English-speaking Canada. It will not hurt a Conservative at the ballot box to be a devout Christian.
That fucks over the poorer provinces.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
Nunavut is under Federal funding anyways (and they do an horrible job with natives and education). PEI will need to better manage itself. If a province the size of a medium city is not sustainable, revert it to a territory.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Not an option given PEI has been a province since 1867.
You can't just take away the provinces rights and only give some of them back via devolution just because a province is poor, rural, and largely agricultural. That's foolish.
Simon Belmont
Banned
How hard can it be to open up the constitution?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Provinces have set powers, guaranteed in a federal system.
Territorial powers (and there are less of them) all derive from the federal government via devolution. It's a much lower status. Not to mention all three territories have a lower combined population than P.E.I.
It'd be quite an affront to the local population to gut one of Canada's original provinces because they have less wealth.
Simon Belmont
Banned
I was referring to a constitutional amendment being the only way to even "revert" a province to a territory, and that's a political dead end (especially to strip a province of it's powers, why would the other provinces agree to that?)
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Exactly, it was a bad plan that would have caused huge consequences.
And there'd be no solution like "returning to federal control" like we're talking about here.
But he lost the leadership vote, that's a good thing. We don't have to worry about this hypothetical.
Simon Belmont
Banned
The amazing thing is that the healthcare thing wasn't even his worst plan. How can one guy have so many horrible ideas?
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
Boo ooh. Provinces can change statutes and limits on their own territories. Nunavut was created in a same way.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Provinces don't have territories...
Territories don't have the same rights provinces do, and Nunavut was created by the federal government, not by the Northwest Territories.
There's no boo-hoo here, Bernier had a stupid plan and he lost partially because that plan (and many, many more as Simon Belmont touched on above) were too fiscally conservative even for many conservatives. It's over now.
matthewwhatever
Member
Sorry, I was wrong about the Abacus poll -- the CPC is at 14, not 8. I was sure I saw them at 8 in Quebec in some poll, but now I can't remember where. In any case, the point still stands: if the NDP are just under 20% in the province, and the Liberals are at 50%, that sets the stage for a 2011-style wave for the Liberals.
Maharg's point is that it's *wildly* offensive to suggest a Sikh remove their turban just because it makes a few
bigots
Don't get me wrong, both are terrible. But here's why, in a nutshell, being socially conservative is a death knell for the CPC:
(Source)
And there's just something more viscerally repugnant about social conservatism than there is to wanting to guy healthcare. Sure, the latter is morally terrible when you think about it, but at least you can try to defend it on policy grounds. The same can't be said for abortion and same-sex marriage.
Because libertarianism!
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Nope, not for me and I'm far from alone...except maybe in this thread.
???
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked