MrAngryFace
Banned
Go Capcom! Minish Cap rox.
Capcom makes the good Zelda games.
- Thread starter MrAngryFace
- Start date
MrAngryFace
Banned
Capcom makes Zelda games with solid GAMEPLAY, which is what matters. FU.
Mike Works
Member
CAPCOM MAKES 2D ZELDAS ON THE GAME BOY WHICH ARE BETTER TO PARAPHRASE JANE'S ADDICTION JUST BECAUSE SO WHY DON'T YOU EAT SOME RAISIN'S AND STFU
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I think Capcom's ability to take this stellar franchise and uphold the tradition goes to the fans of the series since Zelda games are expected to have high quality values. Nintendo probably keeps extremely close tabs on Capcom doing this, considering nothing outside of RE4 is reaching this sort of quality in recent years from them.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Oracles and Minish Cap spank every other 2D Zelda made, and I prefer 'em to the 3D ones as well. Nintendo's just kinda, y'know, LOST IT.
The best thing about Minish Cap, is that it doesn't have Navi spolier/hints at every step. Boss fights need to be figured out by yourself for the most part. The boss fight in the fifth dungeon (for the last element piece), the Gyorgs, is one of the best Zelda bosses ever, just because of the action and the setting, and the fact that you actually need to hit the boss WHILE dodging stuff.
Capcom topped Wind Waker in challenge, but copied a little too much of the collection-happy nature of WW. There are 100 kinstone encounters!!! All of this extra scripting was the source of the unobtainable 99 bombs bug in the Europe version -- one of the kinstone encounters was broken.
Capcom topped Wind Waker in challenge, but copied a little too much of the collection-happy nature of WW. There are 100 kinstone encounters!!! All of this extra scripting was the source of the unobtainable 99 bombs bug in the Europe version -- one of the kinstone encounters was broken.
Drinky Crow said:
2D works very different from 3d - I don't see how the 3d engine can allow something like
ROC ATTACK
GUST JAR
Roc Jump
I think one reason you feel the way you do is cause the lack of poly count (2d) means things can be drawn nicely.. it'd be bit more work to get all the models working with lush forests + plains + waterfalls...etc all. I can only see the 3D zeldas improving. The next zelda should have stacks of polys (so the system engine is churning out detail+polys as opposed to sustaining a complex algorithm for Cel Shading)
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Socreges said:
I'm going to side with Drinky on this. The Oracle games had the puzzles, level design and challenge the recent Nintendo-developed Zeldas lack, although OoT was quite good in this regard, if not a bit easy. Minish Cap seems a bit on the easy side, but the scenario design is ace so far.
Gaia Theory
Member
Capcom does indeed create quite stellar Zelda offerings, especially when you consider that Nintendo/Miyamoto/Anouma simply do not have time at the moment to concentrate on a new 2D Zelda for a handheld. Capcom/Flagship/Okamoto do a very good job of satisfying my Zelda cravings, offering up something new, and fresh with all the nostalgia and gameply I've come to love from the series.
Y'know, reading about all of the hate that Capcom receives (in general, excluding all the recent high praise for RE 4) makes me ponder about something.
Perhaps those that think that Capcom is incapable of creating good games doesn't own a Gamecube. In all seriousness, their PS2 efforts, while good, are often mediocre. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like from Capcom on the PS2, but their lineup on PS2 is perhaps a little more stale than that on Gamecube.
Capcom has released amazing titles on the Cube, most of them falling under the 'underrated' category, simply because of perceptions of the Gamecube.
REmake - simply astounding. It really did make the whole experience fresh and new again and control type C makes the clunky controls MUCH better.
RE Zero - a little uninspired boss creature wise, but the 2 character swap gameplay, story and production values still blow my mind.
PNO 3 - say what you will about your perceptions of what this game was supposed to be in your mind - but Mikami delivered an absolute blast of a shooter to shooter fans! The aesthetic of the game, character design, animation and gameplay and controls are all well tuned with an amazing score to boot. This game is very underrated, in my opinion, soley because some game website editors decided to tell their readership to expect a 'Devil May Cry' like experience from the game long before they knew what the genre actually was. Perceptions ruled with this one and difficulty kept many people that were willing to give it a chance away from it as well. Great game.
Viewtiful Joe 1/2 - The games are hard, their crazy stylish and simply a blast to play. This series, despite having releases on PS2, truly found their audience on Gamecube. Compare sales data if you wish. Inafune reinvented the sidescroller for the new generation, or at the very least, gave people a reason to play them again. While VJ 2 lacks the co-op option many of us hoped for, it's still an incredible game and a great sequel.
Killer 7 - looks stylish as hell, the story sounds very cool - but the gameplay is still such a mystery that this game could go either way.
Megaman Collection/Network Transmission/Command Mission - The Blue Bomber has been very well represented on the Gamecube, offering old and new with some amazing success and some not so good success. If you're a Blue Bomber fan, hard to complain.
I find that Capcom has done a really good job on the Gamecube of offering old with new. From my own experience, it seems as though Capcom games on Gamecube offer higher production values and more polish while offering originality AND nostalgia. I just wonder if those that think Capcom is in a rut, are simply ignoring their Gamecube efforts.
/rant over.
Y'know, reading about all of the hate that Capcom receives (in general, excluding all the recent high praise for RE 4) makes me ponder about something.
Perhaps those that think that Capcom is incapable of creating good games doesn't own a Gamecube. In all seriousness, their PS2 efforts, while good, are often mediocre. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like from Capcom on the PS2, but their lineup on PS2 is perhaps a little more stale than that on Gamecube.
Capcom has released amazing titles on the Cube, most of them falling under the 'underrated' category, simply because of perceptions of the Gamecube.
REmake - simply astounding. It really did make the whole experience fresh and new again and control type C makes the clunky controls MUCH better.
RE Zero - a little uninspired boss creature wise, but the 2 character swap gameplay, story and production values still blow my mind.
PNO 3 - say what you will about your perceptions of what this game was supposed to be in your mind - but Mikami delivered an absolute blast of a shooter to shooter fans! The aesthetic of the game, character design, animation and gameplay and controls are all well tuned with an amazing score to boot. This game is very underrated, in my opinion, soley because some game website editors decided to tell their readership to expect a 'Devil May Cry' like experience from the game long before they knew what the genre actually was. Perceptions ruled with this one and difficulty kept many people that were willing to give it a chance away from it as well. Great game.
Viewtiful Joe 1/2 - The games are hard, their crazy stylish and simply a blast to play. This series, despite having releases on PS2, truly found their audience on Gamecube. Compare sales data if you wish. Inafune reinvented the sidescroller for the new generation, or at the very least, gave people a reason to play them again. While VJ 2 lacks the co-op option many of us hoped for, it's still an incredible game and a great sequel.
Killer 7 - looks stylish as hell, the story sounds very cool - but the gameplay is still such a mystery that this game could go either way.
Megaman Collection/Network Transmission/Command Mission - The Blue Bomber has been very well represented on the Gamecube, offering old and new with some amazing success and some not so good success. If you're a Blue Bomber fan, hard to complain.
I find that Capcom has done a really good job on the Gamecube of offering old with new. From my own experience, it seems as though Capcom games on Gamecube offer higher production values and more polish while offering originality AND nostalgia. I just wonder if those that think Capcom is in a rut, are simply ignoring their Gamecube efforts.
/rant over.
AtomicShroom
Member
I didn't enjoy Minish Cap very much. I thought the Kinstone Fusion was a majorly tedious pain in the ass. Everytime I progressed somewhat through the game, it meant that I had to go through the entire world again, to see each and every NPC in the game, to see if they wanted to fuse Kinstones. Because you know, that NPC in that distant village, for some reason, now decided he wanted to fuse Kinstones. There was absolutely no logic behind it. I didn't enjoy that.
I also didn't enjoy that, fusing a Kinstone meant I'd had to go to some distant place in the overworld to get the treasure... only to find out it was ANOTHER KINSTONE. Gah! I can't see how someone could have fun doing this over and over and over again.
I also didn't enjoy the dungeons, as I thought they were too simple and too linear.
I also didn't enjoy that, fusing a Kinstone meant I'd had to go to some distant place in the overworld to get the treasure... only to find out it was ANOTHER KINSTONE. Gah! I can't see how someone could have fun doing this over and over and over again.
I also didn't enjoy the dungeons, as I thought they were too simple and too linear.
As much as I enjoy Minish Cap and think of it as an AAA title, something about it is still a little bit too "off" for me to think of it as a real Zelda title like LttP or OoT. For one, Minish Cap is heavy on the puzzles, light on the action, and I kinda miss the action. Also, I sometimes feel like I need to solve a puzzle for every other step I make, and it kinda breaks the flow I expect from a true Zelda game. A few times I also felt like the puzzle I just finished was a quality puzzle, but not a Zelda puzzle. At least not quite in the same vein as those. Another thing that feels off is the graphics in the parts where you are small. They are nice, but they just don't seem solid and thought out enough to be in a Zelda game.
To sum up: Great, great game, but not quite a Zelda game as I see Zelda games.
To sum up: Great, great game, but not quite a Zelda game as I see Zelda games.
AtomicShroom
Member
LowTecky said:Fusing kinstones is completely optional. Why subject yourself to something you hateI only fused the ones I came accross while playing the game, I didn't go looking for them at all.
Because I'm a completionist. I try to beat games 100% and to find everything I can find most of the time. In other Zelda games, never was something so tedious required to find all of the items/hearts/etc. in the game. I used to love beating A Link to the Past over and over again, collecting everything in the game. The idea of going through Minish Cap a second time and having to do this Kinstone crap all over again makes me shiver. This isn't a proper Zelda game.
The only thing I really did enjoy about the game was the music. It is brilliant.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
AssMan said:
haha.
Drinky Crow said:
I'd still have to go with Link's Awakening and A Link To The Past over the Capcom-developed games (Oracle games; I have yet to start Minish Cap), but I can already tell that Minish Cap is going to be so much better than all three 3D Zelda games.
I definitely prefer Zelda in 2D, just like with Castlevania. I would say Metroid as well, but we haven't gotten a 3D Metroid game yet to compare. All we got was a first-person shooter with a crappy control set-up using the Metroid name.
BRING ON TEH FLAME!!!
The difference between the Capcom Zeldas and Nintendo's 2D Zeldas is their relative place in the canon.
Lttp is still probably the best Zelda game ever, and also the best 2D Zelda game. It had the production, the gameplay refinement of a Miyamoto title and it also had the weight of a true sequel to the line of EAD Zeldas.
Minish Cap doesn't quite have that and doesn't try to be the 'next' Zelda but rather a fun romp that borrows heavily from the established Zelda canon. A gaiden title basically.
Lttp is still probably the best Zelda game ever, and also the best 2D Zelda game. It had the production, the gameplay refinement of a Miyamoto title and it also had the weight of a true sequel to the line of EAD Zeldas.
Minish Cap doesn't quite have that and doesn't try to be the 'next' Zelda but rather a fun romp that borrows heavily from the established Zelda canon. A gaiden title basically.
i haven't played any of capcom's zeldae, but i don't doubt for a moment that they improve on nintendo's formula. that old, deep arcade competence is still in capcom's games. and konami's, and namco's, and some of sega's. nintendo lost it years ago. they should let itagaki do the console zeldae. there's a ridiculously great adventure game implicit in ninja gaiden.
drohne said:
Actually I find this whole Capcom vs. Big N argument entirely disingenous and somewhat vapid, though Capcom's games successfully blend new tools(air jar/weird cane that fills holes) and gameplay paradigms(shrinking) into the fold, there is very little that is actually altered at all in the formula. The puzzles differ, but the core mechanics are the same grind.
Two dungeons down and about 40 kinstone fusions completed, and I'd argue about 80% of this game has already been distilled from LttP and the Oracles titles(very happy Capcom sped up the mining cart puzzles this time around).
It is a brilliant game, charming and tricky...in a headscratching "how do I reach that cave up there" kind of way; but likely the easiest Zelda ever(endboss is supposedly brutal though), and Majora's Mask did the whole 'Kinstone thing' with greater panache. The artwork, music, and linear pacing is extremely well produced as per norm for this series.
re4 should bring the gospel to the gentiles. i.e., it should show nintendo fans that other developers have far outstripped nintendo. there are bigger, better things going on than nintendo's stagnant franchising and derisory minigames. ninja gaiden happens to be one of those bigger, better things. shame there isn't a gamecube port. itagaki zelda would genuinely deserve all the attention lavished on realda. you should be pulling for it.
I'm with you there actually drohne. A more hectic, dizzying approach to Zelda could be exactly the sort of thing this franchise could use. The puzzles are still top of its class, but the action and swordplay has lost its luster. Just don't look to the Capcom Zeldae right now for that sort of inspiration.
Duck of Death
Member
I agree that Zelda needs an RE4 style makeover. The game still needs the puzzles, but Wind Waker was dreadfully dull at times. A more kinetic experience may be in order.
yeah, brandon. so much has happened in 3d action gaming since ocarina of time. shame the new zelda doesn't seem to reflect it. zelda spatial puzzles are still fun, but they're not enough to put a game in the same class as mgs3, re4, ninja gaiden, etc. zelda needs new blood.
i doubt i'll play minish cap. psp has kind of killed my interest in gba.
i doubt i'll play minish cap. psp has kind of killed my interest in gba.
Hmmm... but has Zelda ever been about pure kinetic energy?
What has endeared the best games of the franchise to me has always been the puzzle solving and the atmosphere and mood more than anything.
WW failed in part because it was so uneven when it came to setting the mood for the player. Lttp and Oot were very good at this and both games had emotional crecendos in each of their dungeons and 'game segments'. When I look back to those games, I remember the emotions more than the specific puzzles.
What has endeared the best games of the franchise to me has always been the puzzle solving and the atmosphere and mood more than anything.
WW failed in part because it was so uneven when it came to setting the mood for the player. Lttp and Oot were very good at this and both games had emotional crecendos in each of their dungeons and 'game segments'. When I look back to those games, I remember the emotions more than the specific puzzles.
Duck of Death
Member
Deku said:
No. But the formula has grown stale, and the Zelda franchise needs something new.
Deku said:
Zelda 1 did a brilliant job pitting the gamer in dire combat situations at pace with the puzzles. Dungeon 8 alone was practically a gauntlet of tense arena battles. Granted a bit dated, but that sensation of quaffing your red potion in the midst of fireball statues and 7 Ironknucles has been lost on the series. Plus the more freeform approach to world design is something I personnally miss.