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[shuyin_]

You don't see the results of your actions until the next frame, period. "How fast the machine responds" is almost completely irrelevant if you can't see the response onscreen.

Back in the days of 16 bit color there were people who said that the human eye could not distinguish any more colors than that and that anything above 16 bit color was a waste. Same with 24 bit color. Same with AV cables, and S-VHS cables. Same with 24 / 30 / 60 fps.

The fact is the human eye can very easily distinguish between 30 and 60 fps, and that 24 fps is only the standard for movies because animating things at 24 fps is cheaper than animating them at 30 while still looking passable.



If you see them side by side you can tell unless you have severe vision problems.

I think that was said about 24 bit color, and it is about right as it is believed the human eye can perceive ~10 million colors.

of COURSE it is excellent, kojima made it

Not sure if you're serious, but i'll post anyway. Aren't there interviews in which Kojima says that outside marketing he isn't really involved in the development of the game?

 

[Blimblim]

Second video added to the news:
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_castlevania_los_demo_video-10013_en.html

 

[S1kkZ]

thanks blim!

 

[codecow]

Guys, here is how you measure latency in a game:

Get a camera that can record 60Hz video.
Hold the controller up in front of the TV and in view of camera.
Hit a button.
Download video to computer.
Play it back frame by frame.
Count how many fields (60Hz frames) it takes before the screen/character starts to react to the button press.

Keep in mind that games often double or triple buffer, so you're immediately looking at 2-3fields of latency just from that. If the game is using vsync (and running at 30Hz) then you're doubling that time potentially. Then there is the effect of the way the game is actually programmed (in some cases very badly).

In short, yes, a bad frame rate does increase how long it takes for the game to react to your button presses.

Edit: Added note about 30Hz.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

can we not do this lol

Frisbee: say something like sotc, which does drop pretty far.

Well, in that case, that's the hardware not being able to handle whats going on. Everything is slowing down (including any code that's going on). They probably couldn't have done the technique that I was talking about because of the limits of the hardware.

 

[Oneself]

I hope I will get my repaired, working, 60G before it comes out... =(

 

[Nemesis_]

Guys, here is how you measure latency in a game:

Get a camera that can record 60Hz video.
Hold the controller up in front of the TV and in view of camera.
Hit a button.
Download video to computer.
Play it back frame by frame.
Count how many fields (60Hz frames) it takes before the screen/character starts to react to the button press.

Keep in mind that games often double or triple buffer, so you're immediately looking at 2-3fields of latency just from that. If the game is using vsync then you're doubling that time potentially. Then there is the effect of the way the game is actually programmed (in some cases very badly).

In short, yes, a bad frame rate does increase how long it takes for the game to react to your button presses.

Does it really matter? It's not like the game is unplayable =/

 

[rollingstart]

I watched both parts of the demo and it still doesn't look very good to me. I want this game because it is Castlevania, but I can't really find something appealing about it other than that (except the voice actor casting and music). I hope the demo can change my mind. Nicest thing I can say is that even God of War games look boring in videos and it isn't until I play that I remember why I like them.

 

[endlessflood]

Guys, here is how you measure latency in a game:

Get a camera that can record 60Hz video.
Hold the controller up in front of the TV and in view of camera.
Hit a button.
Download video to computer.
Play it back frame by frame.
Count how many fields (60Hz frames) it takes before the screen/character starts to react to the button press.

Keep in mind that games often double or triple buffer, so you're immediately looking at 2-3fields of latency just from that. If the game is using vsync then you're doubling that time potentially. Then there is the effect of the way the game is actually programmed (in some cases very badly).

In short, yes, a bad frame rate does increase how long it takes for the game to react to your button presses.

Latency discussion aside, if you've tried the Castlevania demo I'd love to hear your thoughts codecow. Beyond DS I'm assuming you worked on DI as well? It's always nice to get an informed opinion.

 

[eshwaaz]

I just watched Blim's videos of the demo, and I think the game looks great. I'm dying for a big, sprawling action/adventure game, and I really hope this lives up to its potential.

I'm surprised by how nice some of the character animation is. There are many sequences shown that would have been impossible to mocap (such as the leap across the chasm at the end of the demo); it's reassuring to see that there are still some talented keyframe animators out there.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Does it really matter? It's not like the game is unplayable =/

It matters because someone claimed the opposite was true (which is counter to everything I've ever heard on the matter). It doesn't necessarily mean Castlevania has a playability problem.

 

[Dever]

The cutscenes and the promise of an epic 15+ hour adventure might force me to buy this. I don't really feel like playing God of War, but those two things might make up for the familiar basic gameplay.

 

[EternalGamer]

Does it really matter? It's not like the game is unplayable =/

It is a generation gap. To those of us who grew up playing tons of early 3D games, 30 even 20 fps barely seems noticeable let alone important. We played hundreds of games that way and enjoyed them nonetheless for "low frame rates." However, to people who are younger, anything under a solid 30 causes cries of angry. Pretty much anything Above constant single digit frame rares is fine by me.

 

[Nemesis_]

It is a generation gap. To those of us who grew up playing tons of early 3D games, 30 even 20 fps barely seems noticeable let alone important. We played hundreds of games that way and enjoyed them nonetheless for "low frame rates." However, to people who are younger, anything under a solid 30 causes cries of angry.

I remember enjoying all the "pioneering" 3D games. Now I go back and they hurt to play =(

 

[EternalGamer]

I remember enjoying all the "pioneering" 3D games. Now I go back and they hurt to play =(

I think the polygon art and tearing is annoying and ugly, but the frame rates are not the problem.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Non frame related question, any word if the soundtrack that comes with LE is complete or just some lame "sampler" that's often the case? Also, any better pictures of the LE?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It is a generation gap. To those of us who grew up playing tons of early 3D games, 30 even 20 fps barely seems noticeable let alone important. We played hundreds of games that way and enjoyed them nonetheless for "low frame rates." However, to people who are younger, anything under a solid 30 causes cries of angry. Pretty much anything Above constant single digit frame rares is fine by me.

Ah yes, that young pup Amir0x. I only wonder what he would have thought of the Playstation 1 generation, had he been born yet.

 

[QisTopTier]

This game would be so much better with day and night cycles from castlevania 2.... full game pause with the message and all! :lol

And I don't see how god of wars game play is super compelling, when you play on the harder settings you are pretty much limited at what you can do unless you wanna die in a few hits trying to be overly fancy. With that said, the speed of the combat in this looks faster than god of war and more fluid, honestly imo gow3 feels kinda stiff well all the games do.

 

[Chaplain]

I really do not care if this game is a God of War clone. I just want a single player game that can match the amazing single player campaign from U2 and I am hoping that Castlevania meets this criteria.

 

[Daante]

edit - someone already beat me with the OXM score

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

This game would be so much better with day and night cycles from castlevania 2.... full game pause with the message and all! :lol

And I don't see how god of wars game play is super compelling, when you play on the harder settings you are pretty much limited at what you can do unless you wanna die in a few hits trying to be overly fancy. With that said, the speed of the combat in this looks faster than god of war and more fluid, honestly imo gow3 feels kinda stiff well all the games do.

I've beaten all the GOWs on the hardest difficulties and I have never felt limited in my tactics, though you could certainly try to get by using a few choice moves. That would be boring, however.

I'm not sure what you mean by fluid, but to me GOW's combat is the definition of fluid (though not necessarily deep). Lots of cancelable moves, animation is well blended, and you can almost always roll dodge without waiting for an animation to finish. Castlevania looks fluid enough from what little I've seen, but I wouldn't call it more fluid than GOW. (And keep in mind that from my perspective more fluidity isn't necessarily better.)

 

[Apath]

It's a shame given all of the fantastic cut scenes we've seen that this game turns out to be a standard hack-n-slash God of War clone. I was hoping for a more "Zelda" style.

 

[abstract alien]

Second video added to the news:
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_castlevania_los_demo_video-10013_en.html

You are the greatest person in the entire world

 

[Simo]

According to CVG, OPM UK gave the game a 9/10 Gold Award:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=266653&skip=yes

So right now that would put all the current reviews as...

• OXM UK 9/10
• OPM UK 9/10
• GamesMaster 94%
• Xbox World 360 90%+
• Games Aktuell 83%

I guess the media and review embargo ends on Tuesday with a new gameplay video released narrated by Jason Isaacs.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

So this should be on PSN by late tuesday (wednesday)? Looking forward to it. This game and Vanquish will be mine in October.

According to CVG, OPM UK gave the game a 9/10 Gold Award:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=266653&skip=yes

That new gameplay video narrated by Jason Isaacs is supposed to be posted on Tuesday too.

So right now that would put the reviews at...

• OXM UK 9/10
• OPM UK 9/10
• GamesMaster 94%
• Xbox World 360 90%+
• Games Aktuell 83%

Hell yes!

 

[Aeana]

This game has a timed block/counter? Seemed that way from Blim's second video.

 

[codecow]

Latency discussion aside, if you've tried the Castlevania demo I'd love to hear your thoughts codecow. Beyond DS I'm assuming you worked on DI as well? It's always nice to get an informed opinion.

No I didn't work on Dante's, but I am pals with the programmers on it and I guarantee the lead programmer did this test on Dante's to make sure it was correct.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

This game has a timed block/counter? Seemed that way from Blim's second video.

Yup. It's kind of like God of War's in that it doesn't seem particularly powerful, but it's a short combo which is more like Ninja Gaiden (IIRC). Personally, I wish it was more like Onimusha, but hey, maybe there will be upgrades to the counter attack.

 

[codecow]

Latency discussion aside, if you've tried the Castlevania demo I'd love to hear your thoughts codecow.

I haven't tried the demo, I have been working 7d/week on Dead Space 2. My wife is a big Castlevania fan and I'm sure she'll play it.

A bit of trivia, I worked on the graphics engine for the ill-fated Castlevania (Cancelvania)which was originally being made for Sega Dreamcast out here in Redwood City way back in the day. Not killed because of graphics, that part was on point (lols).

 

[Aeana]

Yup. It's kind of like God of War's in that it doesn't seem particularly powerful, but it's a short combo which is more like Ninja Gaiden (IIRC). Personally, I wish it was more like Onimusha, but hey, maybe there will be upgrades to the counter attack.

Aw, that's disappointing. I actually forgot that God of War even had it since I didn't use the fleece very much, but that particular feature is something I really love in action games. And yes, Onimusha is my gold standard.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Aw, that's disappointing. I actually forgot that God of War even had it since I didn't use the fleece very much, but that particular feature is something I really love in action games. And yes, Onimusha is my gold standard.

Even the first GOW had counters.

 

[brandonh83]

It's a shame given all of the fantastic cut scenes we've seen that this game turns out to be a standard hack-n-slash God of War clone. I was hoping for a more "Zelda" style.

It's a "hack and slash" Castlevania in the same way that the older Castlevania games required you to run through the levels whilst hacking and slashing. When has this series ever been anything close to Zelda? You got a line of installments that borrowed from the Metroid formula but other than that, every single Castlevania game has been about smacking shit with a whip, or throwing daggers or holy water or axes or whatever with platforming elements mixed in-- which describes this game perfectly.

 

[QisTopTier]

It's a "hack and slash" Castlevania in the same way that the older Castlevania games required you to run through the levels whilst hacking and slashing. When has this series ever been anything close to Zelda? You got a line of installments that borrowed from the Metroid formula but other than that, every single Castlevania game has been about smacking shit with a whip, or throwing daggers or holy water or axes or whatever with platforming elements mixed in-- which describes this game perfectly.

I always viewed the sotn style castlevanias as not real ones. LoL was castlevania style sorta, curse of darkness was more like SotN, this game def looks castlevania style

 

[brandonh83]

I always viewed the sotn style castlevanias as not real ones. LoL was castlevania style sorta, curse of darkness was more like SotN, this game def looks castlevania style

I think my argument, when it comes down to it, is that... how else are they supposed to make a 3D Castlevania? Lament of Innocence hit us with repetitive hallways and atrocious camera placement (too close to Leon) and this game seems to fix these issues ten-fold. I don't think they could make it too far off the God of War angle even if they tried. Just because it has combat similar to it doesn't mean that it's going to be a God of War ripoff. That's like saying Symphony of the Night is too much like Metroid. What matters to me is the actual quality of the gameplay itself and what they do with the Castlevania atmosphere. Having combat reminiscent of another series isn't going to hurt it or make it anything less unless you just have some sort of ridiculous penchant out to hate it because it shares the combat style of another game-- it was either going to be a God of War ripoff, or a Devil May Cry ripoff, or well, insert whatever franchise here. In order to keep the essence of Castlevania intact, you have to have combat and platforming and I just don't see how else it could have really been done in the 3D perspective without it being compared to something else.

 

[JohngPR]

how else are they supposed to make a 3D Castlevania?

I agree with you, you can only deviate from the formula so much considering the type of series it is.

The more I think about it, the more I think I'll be pre-ordering this game. I didn't like Castlevania when I played it on the NES and didn't like Super Castlevania IV when I played it growing up. I have a feeling I will like this one though.

 

[Amir0x]

It is a generation gap. To those of us who grew up playing tons of early 3D games, 30 even 20 fps barely seems noticeable let alone important. We played hundreds of games that way and enjoyed them nonetheless for "low frame rates." However, to people who are younger, anything under a solid 30 causes cries of angry. Pretty much anything Above constant single digit frame rares is fine by me.

Yeah there's no such thing as evolving standards (or people who did suffer through those generations and hated it back then too).

Ah yes, that young pup Amir0x. I only wonder what he would have thought of the Playstation 1 generation, had he been born yet.

:lol

 

[Spike]

It's a shame given all of the fantastic cut scenes we've seen that this game turns out to be a standard hack-n-slash God of War clone. I was hoping for a more "Zelda" style.

Me too.

 

[~Kinggi~]

It's a shame given all of the fantastic cut scenes we've seen that this game turns out to be a standard hack-n-slash God of War clone. I was hoping for a more "Zelda" style.

Do we know this for certain? Devs have said there are areas within older areas that need new abilities to access. That sounds like you can travel back once you unlock stuff.

 

[brandonh83]

Do we know this for certain? Devs have said there are areas within older areas that need new abilities to access. That sounds like you can travel back once you unlock stuff.

Hell there are gameplay videos where Dave Cox is like "can't go through here yet, need more power!" :lol

 

[yurinka]

My impressions:
-TOO SHORT demo
-Decent God of War-like gameplay & game mechanics (techniques / upgrades shop, health recovery)
-Good visuals
-A bit low framerate. Ok during gameplay, but sometimes (in some cinematics) feels too low
-Only 2 types of enemies
-Horse section is a bit crappy
-Good character design, animation and models, but I hate the blue details in the horses and the face of the girl
-Only a few enemies at the same time
-Voice action feels poor / cold, needs more acting and more epic
-Lighting is strange, sometimes everything feels made of plastic.
-The book menu is crappy and it's too intrusive when acting as a pop-up, it breaks the pace of the demo
-Tons of amateurish Spanish artwork in the book, I only like the one in the main menu
-The demo almost doesn't show anything about the story
-I think the music needs more Vampire Killer / God of war like epic feel

 

[Mar]

Really happy to see those positive reviews. Can't wait to pick up my copy next week.

When's the official thread going up?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Do we know this for certain? Devs have said there are areas within older areas that need new abilities to access. That sounds like you can travel back once you unlock stuff.

All signs point to you traveling back via some kind of chapter select rather than traversing a continuous world.

 

[~Kinggi~]

All signs point to you traveling back via some kind of chapter select rather than traversing a continuous world.

Well hey, i figure having that is better than nothing, especially if the game is 20+ hours long with a ton of content and variety. Even if it was just a GoW clone having that much content is worth it.

Im super hyped for the game.

 

[brandonh83]

When's the official thread going up?

It's finished, will be posting it midnight tomorrow night (EST).

 

[Mar]

I should don my LoS avatar I made back when the game was first announced.

 

[NeoUltima]

Finally gave in to pre-order the LE.

 

[brandonh83]

I should don my LoS avatar I made back when the game was first announced.

:lol not that mine are anywhere as cool, but the OT is going to have an avatar section. not sure how many I'm putting up but I've made over 20 so far, which will be a number likely to grow as the thread is finished and now I'm adding more and more to it to kill time.

 

[Henchmen21]

:lol not that mine are anywhere as cool, but the OT is going to have an avatar section. not sure how many I'm putting up but I've made over 20 so far, which will be a number likely to grow as the thread is finished and now I'm adding more and more to it to kill time.

Personally, I like mine

 

[brandonh83]

Personally, I like mine

I saw it earlier so I didn't include it

 

[NeoUltima]

Here's my old avatar if anybody wants it(or if you want to add it to the OT):