Support NeoGAF

[Bitmap Frogs]

They could unilaterally adopt the Euro.

No, they couldn't.

Nevermind the fact they don't have a mint and it'd be impossible to acquire the Euro blanks. It'd be a situation like in souther america where the american dollar co-exists with the local currency. Usually with disastrous consequences.

 

[veryslowhand]

Looking at this demonstration for the unity of Spain... sheesh! Not even bringing people in buses from the rest of Spain they can reach one million.

Also it's always nice to see fascists punching fascists, credit where credit is due.

Stop watching tv3 please

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Also it's always nice to see fascists punching fascists, credit where credit is due.

A spanish flag makes you fascist? Such toxic thinking.

 

[Cruixant]

A million people apparently is nothing for Catalan nationalist.

They also want us believe that everyone came from other parts of Spain. We know a 100 buses came from other parts of Spain, i don't know how can you fit 1 million people there.

Catalan government controlled media have been insulting the demonstrators all day. Apparently there are 1 million fascist in this country that we didn't know about. Shameful.

Incredible speech by Josep Borrel (member of the catalan socialist (but now fascist according to TV3) party and former head of the EU parliament).

Where are you getting from that TV3 openly called Josep Borrell a fascist? Because I hardly believe this statement. And please, stop referring to TV3 (and other catalan media if you are including them) as government controlled. I find it insulting to equiparate our regional channels as a government tool to spread its propaganda in order to brainwash its citizens.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

No, they couldn't.

Nevermind the fact they don't have a mint and it'd be impossible to acquire the Euro blanks. It'd be a situation like in souther america where the american dollar co-exists with the local currency. Usually with disastrous consequences.

Kosovo and Montenegro use the Euro. It is possible, it's just not desirable, as undesirable as independence is really.
But if we want to be honest to the truth, of course they could adopt the euro.

 

[Xando]

Kosovo and Montenegro use the Euro. It is possible, it's just not desirable, as undesirable as independence is really.
But if we want to be honest to the truth, of course they could adopt the euro.

They could adopt the euro but unless Spain is gonna agree with it they won't get any reserves from the ECB.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Kosovo and Montenegro use the Euro. It is possible, it's just not desirable, as undesirable as independence is really.
But if we want to be honest to the truth, of course they could adopt the euro.

Catalonia is 11 times the gdp of both Kosovo and Montenegro together.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Kosovo and Montenegro use the Euro. It is possible, it's just not desirable, as undesirable as independence is really.
But if we want to be honest to the truth, of course they could adopt the euro.

They can use it. In theory any country can start using whatever currency they want. They can also use the dollar or rubble. But it is probably not that healthy for your economy, since you have zero control over it.

So yes, they can use it. But if it is about the truth, then the downsides of that should also be told.

 

[Clockwork5]

No, they couldn't.

Nevermind the fact they don't have a mint and it'd be impossible to acquire the Euro blanks. It'd be a situation like in souther america where the american dollar co-exists with the local currency. Usually with disastrous consequences.

Where in the US is there a second currency alongside the USD?

 

[veryslowhand]

Where in the US is there a second currency alongside the USD?

Other countries have dollar as currency.

 

[Tiamant]

Stop watching tv3 please

What makes you assume I've watched it on tv3? You'll have a hard time watching me post tv3 links here.

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917056647700336640

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917064129491492865

Ultras vs Mossos in Plaça Sant Jaume:

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917061874172223489

But of course, they can behave like shit people outside Catalonia too:

https://twitter.com/mirasanlucar/status/916993893186621440

I cannot wait until Spanish press tries to paint this as a pacifist protest.

 

[Mik2121]

They wouldn’t have control on the currency of their country, and a few large companies have already moved their HQs to the rest of Spain.
Catalonia doing this is already going to hurt the economy, and if they truly go any further with this (not going to happen since I believe they’re already postponing it), then that would hurt both Catalonia and the rest of Spain.
The independentists didn’t really think this throughly, and the people voting for it had as much knowledge on the matter as those who voted for brexit, it seems.


Regarding the Spanish flags, the right politics kind of appropriated it as part of their symbol so having a Spanish flag is seen as fascist, which is a shame since it’s supposed to represent the whole country :/ I believe there was another demonstration in Madrid where they asked for everybody to just go with white stuff and keep any flags and whatnot somewhere else.

 

[Tiamant]

A black guy follows the demonstration and films it. Of course since they are not fascists nothing bad will happen, right?

https://twitter.com/mohagerehou/status/917009127532089344

 

[forknknife]

What makes you assume I've watched it on tv3? You'll have a hard time watching me post tv3 links here.

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917056647700336640

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917064129491492865

Ultras vs Mossos in Plaça Sant Jaume:

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917061874172223489

But of course, they can behave like shit people outside Catalonia too:

https://twitter.com/mirasanlucar/status/916993893186621440

I cannot wait until Spanish press tries to paint this as a pacifist protest.

Disgusting.

 

[Jezbollah]

Where in the US is there a second currency alongside the USD?

I suspect he was referring to the South American continent.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

What makes you assume I've watched it on tv3? You'll have a hard time watching me post tv3 links here.

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917056647700336640

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917064129491492865

Ultras vs Mossos in Plaça Sant Jaume:

https://twitter.com/Berlustinho/status/917061874172223489

But of course, they can behave like shit people outside Catalonia too:

https://twitter.com/mirasanlucar/status/916993893186621440

I cannot wait until Spanish press tries to paint this as a pacifist protest.

By that same logic, every Barcelona FB fan is a member of the Boixos Nois.



Look, all Barça fans are dangerous hooligans!

 

[KingSnake]

I cannot wait until Spanish press tries to paint this as a pacifist protest.

Wait, so what are you saying is that some hundred of thousands of fascists marched in Barcelona today?

 

[tuxfool]

Images from the demostration today in Barcelona. There are some right wing extremist there, but most people are behaving fine.

What makes you assume I've watched it on tv3? You'll have a hard time watching me post tv3 links here.

I cannot wait until Spanish press tries to paint this as a pacifist protest.

I mean there is the right way to push this, and then there is spin. Unless one is trying to argue (and provide evidence) that a majority of the 350K+ demonstrators are extremists, this isn't the line to take. It might require a bit more nuance.

 

[Xando]

Wait, so what are you saying is that some hundred of thousands of fascists marched in Barcelona today?

He has repeatedly claimed anti independence protestors are fascists in this thread.

 

[Regiruler]

Images from the demostration today in Barcelona. There are some right wing extremist there, but most people are behaving fine.

I was walking in Barcelona just this morning and I didn't see any violence, or even aggression regardless of what flag.

I'm thankful they didn't hold me up though because my group was already on the bus.

 

[Johnny M]

What makes you assume I've watched it on tv3? You'll have a hard time watching me post tv3 links here.....

Yeah 30 retards= 350K persons You seems to be a really reasonable and objetive kind of person....

 

[deathkiller]

Wait, so what are you saying is that some hundred of thousands of fascists marched in Barcelona today?

Here is an article with an interview of his main source http://www.ara.cat/societat/BERNATCASTRO-Twitter-Puigdemont-rufianitzant-magrada_0_1871812803.html It describes him as a former anonymous troll that now works for the independence.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yeah 30 retards= 350K persons You seems to be a really reasonable and objetive kind of person....

It's just standard behaviour for a certain segment of the left in Spain... Raise any flag good for you, raise a Spanish flag you're a fascist.

They've been working on this scam for decades and up to a certain point it's been successful in shaming people into suppressing any external demonstrations of patriotism. Specially in Catalonia. Luckily it's no longer working.

 

[Ferr986]

It's just standard behaviour for a certain segment of the left in Spain... Raise any flag good for you, raise a Spanish flag you're a fascist.

To be fair there were some pre-constitutional flags there. But yeah, it was just a minority.

 

[deathkiller]

To be fair there were some pre-constitutional flags there. But yeah, it was just a minority.

In La 1 about another pro-Spain march they said "Most flags were constitutionals ones" to avoid mention that some were fascist flags. Again no-one will say that there aren't fascist in Spain. But, at least the ones that are open about being fascists, are an small but loud and violent minority.

 

[jufonuk]

Is this a trend now ? Should the EU be worried ?

Likely outcome of this ?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

To be fair there were some pre-constitutional flags there. But yeah, it was just a minority.

In any group of people there will be some asshats.

Again, by that logic, the Catalan independence movement produced a terrorist group... so, all catalan seccecionists are terrorists. See, I can do it too.

 

[Tiamant]

In any group of people there will be some asshats.

Again, by that logic, the Catalan independence movement produced a terrorist group... so, all catalan seccecionists are terrorists. See, I can do it too.

Of course there's idiots everywhere, like the ones who vandalized the Guardia Civil cars last week. But how many times have you seen nazi salutes on a pro-independence rally? How many times you see these kind of shit when there are Spanish flags waving around?

http://www.*****************/news/a...orters-fascist-salutes-independence-demo.html

This is unacceptable.

 

[KingSnake]

Of course there's idiots everywhere, like the ones who vandalized the Guardia Civil cars last week. But how many times have you seen nazi salutes on a pro-independence rally? How many times you see these kind of shit when there are Spanish flags waving around?

http://www.*****************/news/a...orters-fascist-salutes-independence-demo.html

This is unacceptable.

Nice source there. This whole narrative you try to build here says something about you.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Of course there's idiots everywhere, like the ones who vandalized the Guardia Civil cars last week. But how many times have you seen nazi salutes on a pro-independence rally? How many times you see these kind of shit when there are Spanish flags waving around?

http://www.*****************/news/a...orters-fascist-salutes-independence-demo.html

This is unacceptable.

It is unacceptable. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But your narrative with these posts are also clear. Did you have any source on those people being bused in in large numbers? Because... hate to break it to you, but these people can very well be Catalonian so you won't get rid of them when breaking off into your own country.

Daily Mail is blocked btw.

 

[erlim]

Of course there's idiots everywhere, like the ones who vandalized the Guardia Civil cars last week. But how many times have you seen nazi salutes on a pro-independence rally? How many times you see these kind of shit when there are Spanish flags waving around?

http://www.*****************/news/a...orters-fascist-salutes-independence-demo.html

This is unacceptable.

I was hearing pretty wide spread chatter of people getting free busses to Barcelona to protest independence. It's anecdotal---I'm an American, my girlfriend is on some huge pro-Catalan WhatsApp. I've just followed her around to pro referendum gatherings and events.

In any case, I dunno if it's true or just pro-Catalan propeganda, but the same kind of thing was offered to me via phone bank as a Los Angeles resident to have free room and travel to Arizona to picket for Hilary just before the election.

 

[deathkiller]

I have participated in massive marches against terrorism in which a few fascists joined asking for death penalty and other stupid shit, when they are a minority they shouldn't be used to invalidate the majority.

 

[tuxfool]

I was hearing pretty wide spread chatter of people getting free busses to Barcelona to protest independence. It's anecdotal---I'm an American, my girlfriend is on some huge pro-Catalan WhatsApp. I've just followed her around to pro referendum gatherings and events.

In any case, I dunno if it's true or just pro-Catalan propeganda, but the same kind of thing was offered to me via phone Ann as a Los Angeles resident to have free room and travel to Arizona to picket for Hilary just before the election.

Lets work through that logic. Your average coach seats around 50 people. The police have stated that there are at least 350K demonstrators.

350000/50 = 7000 bus trips.

Does that really seem feasible? Assuming they have (numbers out of my ass) 100 buses, that is still 70 trips for each bus.

 

[erlim]

Lets work through that logic. Your average coach seats around 50 people. The police have stated that there are at least 350K demonstrators.

350000/50 = 7000 bus trips.

Does that really seem feasible? Assuming they have (numbers out of my ass) 100 buses, that is still 70 trips for each bus.

Doesn't seem likely, no.

Seems like a bucket of water in the ocean.

 

[cebri.one]

As it happened during 1-O, there are some fake images circulating around the internet. Be advised.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/08/hechos/1507484964_888438.html?id_externo_rsoc=TW_CC

 

[SporeCrawler]

Is this a trend now ? Should the EU be worried ?

Likely outcome of this ?

could turn into a trend. who knows. its not easy to break away without a civil war happening unless there is a legal way to do it. in most of the cases there is no such way.

 

[ClosingADoor]

As it happened during 1-O, there are some fake images circulating around the internet. Be advised.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/08/hechos/1507484964_888438.html?id_externo_rsoc=TW_CC

And of course Assange for some reason needs to push some bullshit here. Probably got a call from Putin about it.

 

[RalchAC]

In La 1 about another pro-Spain march they said "Most flags were constitutionals ones" to avoid mention that some were fascist flags. Again no-one will say that there aren't fascist in Spain. But, at least the ones that are open about being fascists, are an small but loud and violent minority.

There definitely are. But they aren't strong enough as a political force to actually make an impact. Maybe in 20-30 years they'll get more popular, but Franco's dictatorship is relatively recent.

The parents of most people old enough to vote probably where part of the peaceful protests that became common in the late years of the regime, and have heard stories about police brutality and other shit.

And of course Assange for some reason needs to push some bullshit here. Probably got a call from Putin about it.

There have definitely been fake pictures out there. Let's not think that all the independentists are saints here. Nowadays, if you know what you are doing and the circumstances favour it you can easily make stuff blow up in social media.

Not saying the police did an impeccable job either. They probably didn't. I don't think they are all saints either. But the Catalonian government is definitely trying to erode the national one, and boosting the narrative that they are the poor harmless and repressed underdog that is being held hostage by a fascist central state works best for them.

The central government reacted in the worst way possible and definitely deserve all the criticism they can get.

PSOE is the party that will probably benefit the most from all this event. They seem to be the most reasonable party right now so they'll grab most moderates. Ciudadanos is shouting to all directions that the government should enact article 155 to cese the Catalonian government, which is as stupid as it can be and would only add more fuel to this whole mess, and Podemos sympathises a bit too much with the Catalonian government for a lot of people's tastes.

The Putin angle doesn't seem to be pushed that much in Spain though.

 

[valkyre]

EU is too crowded with flags and interests... I cant see how it can work without ever going the next step of true unity between all nations...

 

[marcbret87]

Right now Puigdemont is backed against the wall. He has two options:

1. Declare independence, knowing full well that it likely will be useless given they don't have any way to exercise it and no one will recognize them. As a result, he will likely end in prison and the conflict will escalate, given that the people will not take it lightly. More business will leave Catalonia. Who knows where it goes from here.
2. Not declare independence. In that case the most radical pro-independent sectors will likely want his head on a silver platter. The pro-independence coalition will be split between its most radical sectors and the more moderate ones, likely leading to new elections.

I definitely wouldn't want to be on his shoes, but he knew full well what the job entailed when he took it. Personally I think he'll go for 1, mainly because if he has gone this far I doubt he will not take one more step, even if that means prisons for him.

 

[Jezbollah]

EU is too crowded with flags and interests... I cant see how it can work without ever going the next step of true unity between all nations...

Separatist movements spawning all over the EU is by far their biggest fear.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Right now Puigdemont is backed against the wall. He has two options:

1. Declare independence, knowing full well that it likely will be useless given they don't have any way to exercise it and no one will recognize them. As a result, he will likely end in prison and the conflict will escalate, given that the people will not take it lightly. More business will leave Catalonia. Who knows where it goes from here.
2. Not declare independence. In that case the most radical pro-independent sectors will likely want his head on a silver platter. The pro-independence coalition will be split between its most radical sectors and the more moderate ones, likely leading to new elections.

I definitely wouldn't want to be on his shoes, but he knew full well what the job entailed when he took it. Personally I think he'll go for 1, mainly because if he has gone this far I doubt he will not take one more step, even if that means prisons for him.

IIRC Catalonia parliament passed legislation before the referendum saying that if the referendum should pass that there must be a declaration of independence. In other words the referendum is legally binding in Catalonia unless I've recalled incorrectly or misinterpreted the news over the course of time (German here).

 

[curi0usBystander]

IIRC Catalonia parliament passed legislation before the referendum saying that if the referendum should pass that there must be a declaration of independence. In other words the referendum is legally binding in Catalonia unless I've recalled incorrectly or misinterpreted the news over the course of time (German here).

Yes that's what the law (ignoring the fact that I has been suspended until the constitutional court can make a decision) said, 48 hours after the official results (that was last friday) they would declare Independence. But until tomorrow afternoon we can't know if they are gonna do it or not.

 

[deathkiller]

IIRC Catalonia parliament passed legislation before the referendum saying that if the referendum should pass that there must be a declaration of independence. In other words the referendum is legally binding in Catalonia unless I've recalled incorrectly or misinterpreted the news over the course of time (German here).

Well that law is suspended by the courts so is "legally binding" only in the sense that it is what they promised to do. Among other things, the law said that the declaration would be voted so they need a parliament vote, they dissolved the electoral committee so the results have not been validated except for the Catalonia govern itself and the suspension of the law was published by the Catalonia govern records.

The whole thing feels surreal, they are promising an open rebellion but they are doing quite a lot to follow the current laws until now. The suspended laws say that after the declaration they will take control of every Spanish state property and civil servant inside Catalonia.

They plan to nominate all by themselves a new supreme court to override the current one (since Catalonian judges are not loyal to them).

 

[Night Terror]

A million people apparently is nothing for Catalan nationalist.

They also want us believe that everyone came from other parts of Spain. We know a 100 buses came from other parts of Spain, i don't know how can you fit 1 million people there.

Catalan government controlled media have been insulting the demonstrators all day. Apparently there are 1 million fascist in this country that we didn't know about. Shameful.

Incredible speech by Josep Borrel (member of the catalan socialist (but now fascist according to TV3) party and former head of the EU parliament).

I want a link/source to the place where such a statement comes from.

 

[Tiamant]

Another day, another miserable story coming from PP.

I like how he threatens Puigdemont to end up as Companys and when the journalist asks "you mean in prison or executed?" he is all like:

Edit: before the "stop watching tv3 omg!" crew comes, here you have the justification straight from PP twitter:

https://twitter.com/PPopular/status/917388378471043072

Can we start calling them fascists already?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Uh. so is Catalonia still save to visit? Going to Barcelona from the 6th to the 13th

 

[KingSnake]

Uh. so is Catalonia still save to visit? Going to Barcelona from the 6th to the 13th

Depends on what's happening tomorrow. If they don't unilaterally declare independence it's safe. If they do, anything is possible and maybe it's better to avoid.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Another day, another miserable story coming from PP.

I like how he threatens Puigdemont to end up as Companys and when the journalist asks "you mean in prison or executed?" he is all like:

https://media.giphy.com/media/enZ3A3ihJiUgw/giphy.gif

Edit: before the "stop watching tv3 omg!" crew comes, here you have the justification straight from PP twitter:

https://twitter.com/PPopular/status/917388378471043072

Can we start calling them fascists already?

Might want to translate a bit for non-Spanish speakers. I got no clue if we can call people fascists if I don't know what the video says.

But with everything surrounding this thread, ask yourself again: will splitting up from Spain solve stuff like this and do you expect all Catalonians to have pure thoughts and political ideas?

Uh. so is Catalonia still save to visit? Going to Barcelona from the 6th to the 13th

No one has given any negative travel advise. It's not like the city is less save as far as I have heard in the news. Unless they do declare independence this week - probably won't happen -, you should be fine.

 

[turmoil]

Might want to translate a bit for non-Spanish speakers. I got no clue if we can call people fascists if I don't know what the video says.

But with everything surrounding this thread, ask yourself again: will splitting up from Spain solve stuff like this and do you expect all Catalonians to have pure thoughts and political ideas?


No one has given any negative travel advise. It's not like the city is less save as far as I have heard in the news. Unless they do declare independence this week - probably won't happen -, you should be fine.

A PP guy basically said that Puigdemont will see the same fate that an independentist executed in 1940