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[ProfessorMoran]

I don't think kids born in Canada will have much problem with integrating into Canadian society because they'll be spending all their time in school where the teachers will most likely be teaching Canadian culture anyway.

Although I still speak Chinese, I somehow feel that if I have kids in the future, they won't be unless I specifically send them to Chinese lessons and keep diligent in speaking Chinese with them at home. I already see that in some of my younger cousins whose parents both speak way more English than my parents because they immigrated here at a younger age.

With a much larger immigrant population than in the past, the parents themselves don't integrate well, school populations are becoming much more ethnic, teachers can only do so much, I think relying only on the kids going to school to learn to be Canadian is a bit of a mistake, because they're no longer going into school speaking only English among mostly white kids.

I think it's unfair to give a Canadian-born child the burden of perpetuating a culture that often he or she doesn't understand. It's novelty, it's just skin color and learning how to speak a foreign language to talk to grandpa and grandma, it's the whole discover my ancestral roots bullshit, there's no history behind it, even if my son can speak a few words of Chinese which I doubt, he'll never understand things like the cultural revolution and what that did to change people's moral values, he'll never share the same value system (definitely a good thing), there'll be no real connection.

There's plenty of stories about kids committing suicide because of not being able to handle the academic pressure being put on them by their parents. And there's the classic "Corporal punishment is good. My parents beat me and I turned out fine. Heck I needed it". Shitty parenting is shitty and is terrible no matter what cultural frill is applied to it.


The worry is dog whistling. Bans on head coverings are usually 'not targeting Muslims' either.

It's insane how much tutoring services are thriving these days even when some of the parents themselves are uneducated/borderline illiterate.

 

[diaspora]

1. That's not what I said. Learn as many languages as you want. Knock yourself out!
2. By 4 years old - and be clear, these are born and raised Canadian kids, not immigrants - by 4 years old there's something seriously wrong if your child doesn't even speak the basics either of the official languages of their own country. Most kids have a grasp on the basics by 2. There are actually expectations on what level children are expected to be at by the time they start kindergarten, and these are clearly communicated to parents beforehand. Which leads me to #3...
3. Believe it or not, it's not an elementary school teacher's job to teach your child English just because you chose not to. If anything that's hugely irresponsible because not only is your child way behind the curve on crucial early development (since they're unable to follow the curriculum), they're also detrimental to the whole class. It's not unusual to have like 30 kids in these classes, there just aren't that many hours in the day.

Of course none of this applies to new immigrants who are trying to integrate, and I surely hope the government is doing everything they possibly can to help people in that situation. This is about the families who have Canadian born children who just say "they'll learn English in school anyway lol" with no consideration for what that actually means.


Yeah, marriages go bad. I'm from a broken home myself. That in itself is obviously not a uniquely Muslim problem. But I've never seen an entire community turn against someone like this. I've never seen people completely ostracise their own flesh and blood grandchildren just because their mother didn't want their father beating them. She has been completely cut off from everything she's ever known for the sin of leaving her husband, regardless of the reason. If this doesn't have anything to do with her cultural background then I apologise, but this sort of patriarchal nonsense surely isn't from the play book of so-called "Canadian" values.

Like that town in the US where a couple of girls were raped by those highschool football players?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

marriages that go bad and spousal abuse are not uniquely Muslim problems.

Arranged marriages, age limit by which a girl should get married, the amount of control parents have over whom a girl can be married to are not necessarily "Muslim" problems but uniquely common to immigrants from many non-westernized nations.

 

[diaspora]

.

 

[diaspora]

Arranged marriages, age limit by which a girl should get married, the amount of control parents have over whom a girl can be married to are not necessarily "Muslim" problems but uniquely common to immigrants from many non-westernized nations.

Sure, but ultimately I think it's a problem that needs to be viewed as a type of social conservatism rather than pearl-clutching about minorities, faiths, etc. Like, social conservatives are a cancer to freedom and democracy, whether domestically or abroad and I think issues surrounding social conservatives like gay/trans rights, choice rights, marriage age limits, etc need to be tackled the same way we deal with any other social conservative issue.

 

[dluu13]

With a much larger immigrant population than in the past, the parents themselves don't integrate well, school populations are becoming much more ethnic, teachers can only do so much, I think relying only on the kids going to school to learn to be Canadian is a bit of a mistake, because they're no longer going into school speaking only English among mostly white kids.

I think it's unfair to give a Canadian-born child the burden of perpetuating a culture that often he or she doesn't understand. It's novelty, it's just skin color and learning how to speak a foreign language to talk to grandpa and grandma, it's the whole discover my ancestral roots bullshit, there's no history behind it, even if my son can speak a few words of Chinese which I doubt, he'll never understand things like the cultural revolution and what that did to change people's moral values, he'll never share the same value system (definitely a good thing), there'll be no real connection.


It's insane how much tutoring services are thriving these days even when some of the parents themselves are uneducated/borderline illiterate.

Yeah, I think I grew up in a different time. My parents had also been in Canada for many years before having me. My mom had gone through high school here and my dad worked. Also, being refugees they were close with their host family, who were Canadian and helped them integrate. Although I mostly spoke Chinese as a kid, I still did many things I considered to be Canadian (like skiing, skating lessons, stuff like that).

Regarding your comment about foreign-language media, I've noticed it a lot at work. The guys are constantly using Chinese websites. Sometimes I go to help them out at their computer and their keyboard is always in Chinese. There's nothing forcing them to learn English or to consume Canadian media. Back when I was a kid, the only Chinese media I consumed was the radio. Everything else would have been in English.

 

[SystemBug]

There is also a difference between immigrants and international students that isn't being addressed. Most immigrant children speak their native tongue amongst parents thats for sure but they also are learning English through out a lot of the media they are consuming at a young age. And they learn a lot from school. Learning a new language is hard. And you can't really fault the parents to teach their children their native language first to make communications easier.

I think the issue here is overblown because younger kids pick up English really quickly unless they have a mental disability, which my younger brother had and so had trouble learning how to read.

The whole concept of being Canadian isn't even being Canadian. People are assuming Canadian as being white.

I moved to Canada when I was 8. I knew a little bit of English before hand but I learned.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Sure, but ultimately I think it's a problem that needs to be viewed as a type of social conservatism rather than pearl-clutching about minorities, faiths, etc. Like, social conservatives are a cancer to freedom and democracy, whether domestically or abroad and I think issues surrounding social conservatives like gay/trans rights, choice rights, marriage age limits, etc need to be tackled the same way we deal with any other social conservative issue.

The only thing is that mainstream Christianity in general has moved quite a ways towards acceptance of things like gay/trans rights, abortion and other social issues. We're talking about Canada here, we're not THAT socially conservative outside of more conservative ethnic cultures which are still clinging onto things like arranged marriages and male-driven family dynamics.

 

[Vibranium]

Interesting poll. I do think we should encourage more unity, but I'm not sure what way other than time would be best. I meet a lot of people from around the world in school and they've been really cool to talk to, language barrier or not.

 

[Azih]

I had an arranged marriage. Our parents set us up and we kinda sorta dated for about four months before we decided that we'd go forward with the engagement. Had about a year of that before we got hitched.