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[Rhazer Fusion]

Am I reading this correctly or does it seem like CDPR are playing the victim? Didn't they deliberately lie and hide console footage and pics from millions of people and told reviewers to use PC footage only? The other broken games did at least show how the games truly look on the platforms to my knowledge. I haven't played CP2077 yet even though I own it, but how is it Sony's fault for releasing a broken, glitchy game when CDPR KNEW it wasn't in a satisfactory state? They should of delayed the console versions at least imo.

Yeah, Sony approved it, but maybe they didn't know how deep the game's issues really were without extensive testing? I'm not exactly sure how their game approval process works. Then did CDPR tell consumers to call Sony for a refund knowing about their return policy putting all that pressure on Sony?

Also, if you don't like Sony's strict digital store return policy, why not just buy physical where you at least have a few options for returns and you even can sell or trade the game for money?

 

[Komatsu]

Have you guys noticed that the only argument used by the CDPR defense force is based on whataboutism?
What about Anthem
What about NMS
What about Fallout 76


I mean, if your game needs to be compared to these to look a little better then your game sucks.
We've come a long way from "Dude, Witcher 3 was awesome, Cyberpunk will be as good as Witcher 3 was" to "Cyberpunk is better than Fallout 76, they don't deserve it"

Ah, whataboutism! The standard "I can't possibly justify it logically, hence here's my buzzword" defense. Love it.

Funny you bring FO76 and NMS into the discussion. They had one thing in common with CP2077: They did not brick consoles, unlike Anthem, which Sony persisted in selling even after a flurry of reports came in.

While CDPR should certainly be taken to task for releasing a game in such a horrible state. It's blown up into an even bigger story than that since then.

While releasing broken games isn't common. It's not like this hasn't happened before. Every so often a game gets released that's an absolute shit show, and that should've been delayed. It happens.

If you remove CDPR from this equation, and replace them with a blank dev and game. The results would be different, but not by much. Most differences being in social media statements post release.

However, if you remove Sony from the equation. The difference is night and day. This is evident because while the game was just as broken on Xbox... MS's return policies made the whole thing a problem that could be easily worked through. It's only Sony's anti consumer return policy that makes this whole thing become the huge ordeal it has become.

That being said. Sony's crap return policy has been well known by the vast amount of it's users for quite awhile now. It's not as if Sony suddenly made it up. There's been plenty of fans who've attempted to defend it for years now.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Wow, comparing Sony's inane return policy with other companies in a way that makes perfect sense and goes right to the crux of the matter? Be careful, you'll soon be accused of whataboutism.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Ah, whataboutism! The standard "I can't possibly justify it logically, hence here's my buzzword" defense. Love it.

Funny you bring FO76 and NMS into the discussion. They had one thing in common with CP2077: They did not brick consoles, unlike Anthem, which Sony persisted in selling even after a flurry of reports came in.



Wow, comparing Sony's inane return policy with other companies in a way that makes perfect sense and goes right to the crux of the matter? Be careful, you'll soon be accused of whataboutism.

Horseshit.
Nice try though.

BioWare confirms Anthem is crashing PS4s, will fix in next week's patch

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Funny you bring FO76 and NMS into the discussion. They had one thing in common with CP2077: They did not brick consoles, unlike Anthem, which Sony persisted in selling even after a flurry of reports came

Nothing amazes me more than games that brick consoles and continue to be sold. That should be a lawsuit in the making.

I remember Witch and the Hundred Knight for PS3 notoriously doing this and no patches or anything were ever released.

Fortunately they released an updated version with extra content in the form of Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival for PS4.

 

[Sir Vilhelm]

Nothing amazes me more than games that brick consoles and continue to be sold. That should be a lawsuit in the making.

I remember Witch and the Hundred Knight for PS3 notoriously doing this and no patches or anything were ever released.

Fortunately they released an updated version with extra content in the form of Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival for PS4.

I've never bricked a system playing a game, is this a PS issue? How would anything a game so brick the console? That seems extremely weird to me.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I've never bricked a system playing a game, is this a PS issue? How would anything a game so brick the console? That seems extremely weird to me.

Dunno but it was a widely known issue.

Doing some Googling, one old user here possibly explains it.

The Witch and the Hundred Knight had a bug that caused a memory leak which made the CPU go faster and faster and faster until the CPU melted. Luckily, the PS3 will most likely shut down after detecting the overheating before it gets TOO bad, but if that doesn't work, then God help you.

 

[Komatsu]

Horseshit.
Nice try though.

BioWare confirms Anthem is crashing PS4s, will fix in next week's patch

Yawn. Quoting the company's official communication? Pathetic. Do a little better.

Dozens of reports of bricked consoles, Media coverage confirming it (funny how you only believe the media when it comes to Cyberpunk bug reports). A cursory google search will take you to Reddit threads with images posted.

EDIT: I will be nice and do your homework for you. Some 5 mins of googling:

"HoRsEsHiT"

"HoRsEsHiT"

" HoRsEsHiT"

 

[MarkMe2525]

IN ALL CAPS!!!

 

[THEAP99]

People need to stop the narrative flip.

Prior to release, everyone and their mother claimed and hyped this game being developed for 8 years. But now that it released and is a disappointment, they want to claim it didn't start development till 2016.

That is a lie.
As you can see right here, CD Projekt Red had a second team with "seasoned veteran witcher developers" working on Cyberpunk since 2012. Was it all hands on deck yet, obviously not. But has it been in development for 8 years, yep, it has. Anyone saying otherwise is in damage control mode.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Yawn. Quoting the company's official communication? Pathetic. Do a little better.

Dozens of reports of bricked consoles, Media coverage confirming it (funny how you only believe the media when it comes to Cyberpunk bug reports). A cursory google search will take you to Reddit threads with images posted.

EDIT: I will be nice and do your homework for you. Some 5 mins of googling:

"HoRsEsHiT"

"HoRsEsHiT"

" HoRsEsHiT"

Reddit...

Yeah nah i'm out lol

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Reddit...

Yeah nah i'm out lol

Blinding you, your hate boner is.

 

[Redlancet]

it's how apologists cope.
I also love the hypocrisy of Steam's fanbase, game sits at almost 80% positive because CDPR. quite opposite if it was released by EA or Ubisoft or Bethesda...

they ripped apart assasins unity and that game got less bugs than cp by a mile

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

I know to take a thread seriously when the title is all caps. This is a real steel, balls to the wall, hold on to your assholes, extinction level event.

 

[THEAP99]

they ripped apart assasins unity and that game got less bugs than cp by a mile

It's because cd Projekt red are one of the only big AAA devs that cater to the master race. Therefore they'll lay the shield up for them. Let's be real

 

[Komatsu]

Blinding you, your hate boner is.

Embarrassing, isn't it? Still fun to watch though.

 

[Edgelord79]

This thread is full of Christmas cheer!

 

[Azurro]

...They had one thing in common with CP2077: They did not brick consoles, unlike Anthem, which Sony persisted in selling even after a flurry of reports came in.

I'm curious, since you seem so adamant about this, Anthem did sell millions, right? Can you find a significant percentage of the people that bought Anthem to have bricked PS4s? Say, 10%? 20%? Because the issue with CP2077 is that literally every user is having a terrible experience with game breaking bugs and poor performance, it's not isolated to a few cases.

You posted a couple of reddit posts, but that's not significant.

Disclaimer: I am not defending anyone here and this store delisting thing is just drama from nothing. Cyberpunk2077 is a defective piece of software and needs multiple patches before even being able to be sold to people and defective games get unlisted and refunds can be done, as according to the policy. It's just high profile because CDPR is selling a broken game.

 

[Banjo64]

Bought Cyberpunk today, got to wait until Christmas to play though. Can't wait.

I love the Witcher.

Whilst I know this is rather pathetic, the fact that this game has triggered both Reee and the Sony Defence Force™ quite unlike any other game, has quite frankly made me wet for it. And I'm a man. (A white CIS male to be precise).

I'll be playing it on the Xbox Series S as well, just throwing that in there to piss off the hardware enthusiast crowd. LOL.

 

[Business]

Broken game + broken refund policy = Clown show

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

This thread is full of Christmas cheer!

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I'm curious, since you seem so adamant about this, Anthem did sell millions, right? Can you find a significant percentage of the people that bought Anthem to have bricked PS4s? Say, 10%? 20%? Because the issue with CP2077 is that literally every user is having a terrible experience with game breaking bugs and poor performance, it's not isolated to a few cases.

You posted a couple of reddit posts, but that's not significant.

Disclaimer: I am not defending anyone here and this store delisting thing is just drama from nothing. Cyberpunk2077 is a defective piece of software and needs multiple patches before even being able to be sold to people and defective games get unlisted and refunds can be done, as according to the policy. It's just high profile because CDPR is selling a broken game.

Aaaand....that's where I checked out.
I could go on reddit now and claim this or that and some forum members will pick that up as gospel truth and post it here.
Let that sink in.
You're a complete and utter joke when your argument rests on a fucking Reddit post of all things. LMFAO

That synchronized dip

 

[ArtHands]

Are you saying Sony DOES allow refunds on digital if it's been played 2hrs or less? If so, how is their refund policy any different than Xbox or Steam? And why is everyone bitching about Sony's refund policies?

The only experience I've ever had with PS Store was buying TLOU-R with $10 off coupon I got as a new PS4 owner. Great deal, went smoothly no complaints. All the bad things I've heard about Sony's refund policies are 2nd hand and possibly fanboy fueled. I was under the impression they don't give refunds EVER, not even if you cancel a preorder before it's released. If this is a bunch of BS I'd like to know the truth.

Can someone please tell me without any fanboying exactly what the refund policy is on PlayStation and why it is considered so terrible if it's essentially the same as other platforms.

Of course not. Head straight to the official sources so you don't get confused by misinformation

Here's how they works:

PlayStation Store cancellation policy

www.playstation.com

You can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of purchase and receive a refund, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming it.

Digital content that you have started downloading or streaming, and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.

You can cancel your purchase of a season pass within 14 days from the date of purchase and receive a refund, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming any digital content (e.g. game add-ons) included in the season pass.

There is never a 2 hours limitation, because you can't refund right after you boot the game (unless the content is faulty).



Here's how Steam works:

Steam Support :: How To Request A Refund

support.steampowered.com

Steam Support :: Common Refund Questions

support.steampowered.com

What can I request a refund for?
Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any title that is requested within 14 days of purchase and has been played for less than 2 hours - this includes online, offline and shared library playtime. Even if you fall outside of the refund rules we've described, you can submit a request and we'll take a look at it.

So essentially, even if you fall outside of the 14 days/2 hours restriction, you can still submit and have them take a look. And there's more:

What can I do?
Purchases made significantly outside of the 14 day refund window are not eligible for a refund request.

My refund request was denied. Can I contest this decision?
If you feel that there has been an error in the handling of your refund inquiry, please submit another request at help.steampowered.com. The request will be reviewed by another Valve employee.

I bought a game right before it went on sale. Can I get a refund and repurchase it at the sale price?
Yes.

If you have not already requested a refund, make sure the purchase is eligible and submit a request here.

Please note that approved refunds may take up to 7 days to process.

Is there a limit to how many purchases I can request a refund for?
You can submit any number of refund requests for eligible purchases.

If it appears that you are abusing the refund system, we reserve the right to revoke access to this feature.

The only caveats is that games made significantly beyond purchase date isn't eligible, and not to abuse it.

 

[ArtHands]

Sony shouldn't have removed the game. In a way they're violating the free market - them showing their muscle on this move actually kind of shows game devs/publishers why maybe all reliance on a Sony/Xbox digital store future isn't such a good idea.

I echo what many people have already said, broken games get released all the time. And to be honest, I really believe there's a loud vocal minority complaining about this and ruining it for everyone. Is it hard to believe that your average person doesn't really care about these issues? I doubt most will even go through the story, they just wanna drive around gta style.

The news regarding the issues plaguing this game are everywhere at this point. Yet it still tops the chart on Amazon and is the hottest game to get for Christmas. So clearly it's still very popular.

FWIW Gears of War was a very broken game when it came out, don't think the online lag ever got fixed. Yet playing that broken game online with friends back in the day is among the fondest memories I have related to gaming. We had a blast, there was actually a point where the brokenness made it a bit more interesting

True, buying on consoles ain't a good idea what's with the broken refund system

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

way smaller studio.

Point still stands.

 

[plasmawave]

I like how CDPR fanboy are desperately trying to shift blame towards Sony on this matter.
Like, who are you guys trying to fool here?

 

[Klayzer]

I like how CDPR fanboy are desperately trying to shift blame towards Sony on this matter.
Like, who are you guys trying to fool here?

Also, a literall who's who of Xbox fans lining up to, you guess it ....to drop their customary Sony too narrative.

I have my problems with Sony's customer service with regards to refunds, but that is a totally different topic from launching a completely botched and deceptive title for last gen consoles.

The focus should be on CDPR, for putting console makers in a spot to have to act from their own negligence.

 

[ArtHands]

True. Its high time Sony should be held responsible to implement a proper refund system.

 

[lucius]

Sony and Nintendo should offer refunds with safeguards of course. But there is no way someone at CDPR didn't know Sonys current refund policy when they just all sudden announce full refunds. They have a system where they offer it on their own system. They also know most won't take advantage of it they should have just said they were working hard to
fix it, then keep fixing it and shut up. Part of their problem is they want like this good guy corporation image . They are too big at this point for that just produce good products people will be there.

 

[TheGejsza]

The main reason Sony delisted CP77 from PSN is because people and Youtubers started talking about their (very not consumer friendly) refund policy. And Sony do not want to change their refund policy. CDPR just put a stick right in the Sony ass by mentioning refund. IMHO CDPR did not expected this, they wanted to play on time 'till after new year.

Sony did the the best move they could do. They "white-knighted" themselves by allowing the refund and got rid of waves of angry customers. I also think in case on any lawsuit Sony would easly lost because CDPR addmited the lied and that the product is faulty.

So this whole CP77 delisting case is rather curious. Sony decision is a sum of three things - CDPR mentioning refunds, CDPR addmiting they hid the PS4/X1 versions and the most important (that basically give a free-win for customer-side in most of EU countries in case of lawsuit) CDPR addmited that the game is faulty/broken. I don't see how you can loose in court whith that statement as evidence and that's what tilted Sony mostly.

We never saw an situation where producer publicly ADDMITED that the game is broken.

 

[vkbest]

Its pretty stupid to sell something you are considering is not in the state to sell, so you are giving refunds. People says MS solution is better, but is not sense. If the game is so bad state you are changing your refunds system, mean the game is not in the state to sell.

Sony here making sense. But people prefers to be scammed.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Sony did them a favour . Otherwise many would rush to buy it and play it for 2 days and refund it and never buy it again.

This way once the game is ready many will buy it

 

[SF Kosmo]

This guy needs to step down as CEO.

What they did destroyed the company.

6 months of more polish to deliver a quality product on all platforms and all of this could have been avoided.

These companies need to stop promising delivery dates and just release when it's ready.

For sure, when the best answer the can offer anyone of the groups they hurt -- investors, employees, or customers -- is "we take full responsibility" then yeah, someone needs to take responsibility and step down, I agree.

I do think the state of the problem is being overstated a bit, especially on PC where it's just perfectly normal/expected launch jank for this kind of game. Even on console, it's not as bad as a some other high profile botched launches. Certainly some people are playing it and enjoying it and the underlying game is good, which is more than can be said for Anthem.

That's not to say it's in any way acceptable to release a game with major stability and performance issues on console, but I feel like a little perspective is needed too.

 

[Self High Five]

So why did they not do this with.. um... Anthem?

They would have If Bioware made a public statement telling consumers to request a refund from PSN.

 

[Lanrutcon]

This is a super interesting situation here. Not with the game or the devs or Sony, but here on the forum.

We have two major factions aligned against each other: the Sony fandom vs the Witcher 3 fans. Each side is a juggernaut, used to getting their way in any argument through sheer force of numbers. The followers of the Best Consoles Evar vs the followers of the Best Game Evar, blaming each other's golden calf for the situation.

It's like a Godzilla movie. CDPR, what have you wrought?

Spoiler

Oh, the humanity. Cheer up, it's Christmas.

 

[Allandor]

Nothing amazes me more than games that brick consoles and continue to be sold. That should be a lawsuit in the making.

I remember Witch and the Hundred Knight for PS3 notoriously doing this and no patches or anything were ever released.

Fortunately they released an updated version with extra content in the form of Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival for PS4.

A game can never brick a system. If it does, the console has a serious design flaw or OS bug. If a game bricks a console, it could have happend with any other game it is not the games fault if the cooling solution or whatever did it is not enough in any situation.

This is like on a PC. The worst thing that should happen is, that the game crashes. If the OS also crashes the OS has a bug.


And to the topic:
Yes, it wasn't the quality of the game that lead to this. It was CDPR encouraging players to refund the game. No game on the PS5 got removed because of bad quality. So no one should pretend sony did this because of the quality. But at least console creators should add big warnings to a heavily bugged game if you want to buy it on their platforms until the major issues are solved.

The other thing is, never preorder. Just wait for the reviews. And if the company enforced some shady NDAs, just wait a bit longer.

 

[CthulhuPL]

Oh the drama.... THis is simple: You have decent PC? Buy the game. You have XSX/PS5? Buy the game. You have old consoles because why switch to new ones instead let's bitch about why last gen was so long? Then don't buy it. Regardless of platform, if you are alergic to bugs and glitches (which are common in like 90% of games nowdays) then also don't buy and wait.

 

[El_Cinefilo]

Not defending the state of the game on base consoles but lets be honest the only reason Sony delisted the game is because they still don't have a functional refund policy or system to allow people to refund games they've played at all. They had to delist the game as faulty to allow refunds or change their policy to let people refund games that have been played which they didn't want to do. I think that's worth criticism.

 

[B-universe]

This guy needs to step down as CEO.

The CEOs are also the founders and, if I remember correctly, two of the biggest individual shareholders. It's their company. How much do you know about CD Projekt RED? Because Adam Badowski is not the CEO. He is game director , studio head and member of the board (source).

Gosh, could it be there's a lot of info the public doesn't know? Gosh, is it really true you can't even be bothered to check the publicly known info?

I'm sure the Board's hearts will weep as Mr. James Sawyer Ford decrees the CEOs must go.
I know mine would.

What they did destroyed the company.

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

6 months of more polish to deliver a quality product on all platforms and all of this could have been avoided.

How do you know it could have been avoided?
It's one thing to say there's good evidence for mismanagement, it's quite another to claim a specific decision was avoidable at a specific point in time.

Do you know anything about the financial situation of the company? Check.
Do you know anything about the possible contractual obligations?
Check.
Do you know anything about possible marketing deals?
Check.
Do you know of anything about other ongoing projects?
Check.

That wealth of knowledge of yours.

The armchair CEOs of billionaire companies should be sending out resumés. So much raw talent going to waste on a gaming forum.

Case in point, straight from the horse's mouth:

Adam Badowski, Game Director, on mandatory Crunch (my emphasis):

I know this is in direct opposition to what we've said about crunch. It's also in direct opposition to what I personally grew to believe a while back -- that crunch should never be the answer. But we've extended all other possible means of navigating the situation

(source)

These companies need to stop promising delivery dates and just release when it's ready.

Of course they Should.
And they should also send the check to you. Somebody has to pay for extended development time.

Thanks for volunteering!

For sure, when the best answer the can offer anyone of the groups they hurt -- investors, employees, or customers -- is "we take full responsibility" then yeah, someone needs to take responsibility and step down, I agree.

So you've decided to inflict your dumb takes not just on the politics section of the forum, where they've been and endless source of laughter and deserved derision, and visit that copyrighted combination of profound ignorance and arrogance upon the gaming section as well?

Ok.

First off, all of the groups they've "hurt" - the language is just oh so precious in its wokeness - can disinvest, quit or never buy another CDPR title again if they so want. Right? Investors can sell, developers can kiss goodbye to paid overtime and quit and gamers get a refund. Right?

Investors, specifically, might want to pause for a moment. The board you're so keen to dismiss took a stock worth less than USD 2 in 2012 to one which is currently trading at USD 78.89 (source). I'm sure you can figure out the math, but it's measured in the 100s of %.

Cough, cough.

Secondly, and most importantly, what gave you the impression all they're doing and going to do to reverse the situation can be found in a highly curated summary by Mr. Jason Schreier? Could it be plans are confidential? Gosh, could it be plans have to be thought though for some time and not disclosed during a Zoom call, not least because publicly traded companies have legal obligations to the shareholders?

Have you heard of legal obligations of publicly traded companies with regard to disclosing info? Have you heard of insider trading accusations?

Apparently, you have not. That pragmatism of yours must only apply to shopping lists.

Please, won't you and the other self-proclaimed centrist of the board form an alliance of sorts called "Pathetic Takes Unlimited"?

You'd make a great CEO of Pathetic Takes Unlimited.
That much I can safely say.

I do think the state of the problem is being overstated a bit,

You don't say.
Who could have thought that reading your introduction?
Who?

especially on PC where it's just perfectly normal/expected launch jank for this kind of game. Even on console, it's not as bad as a some other high profile botched launches. Certainly some people are playing it and enjoying it and the underlying game is good, which is more than can be said for Anthem.

And yet, surprise, surmise., you were agreeing with calls for the CEOs to step down. Personally, I've given up on you ever showing a vestige of consistency.

That's not to say it's in any way acceptable to release a game with major stability and performance issues on console, but I feel like a little perspective is needed too.

And I'd say you cannot give that which you ostensibly lack.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

B B-universe

Nah, I don't know a thing about the exact individuals who run CDPR, nor do I care to be blunt.

the company had lost what? 50% of its value over this fiasco that could have been entirely avoided?

yeah. CEO heads at other companies would roll for this, its an unbelievable fuckup by management. Doesn't matter if they founded the company. They are public, are they not?

I don't give a shit if they weep about me, they should be weeping about the company's value and how they've managed to screw over their hardworking employees by their bad decisions on what appears to be a solid game that just needed a little more time in the oven

continue licking their boots though, they obviously had too many people kissing their ass that they felt they could get away with this.

 

[B-universe]

(...)

Nah, I don't know a thing

(...)

Fully agreed.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Fully agreed.

another snarky response shitpoast by someone that clearly knows less than shit

 

[B-universe]

another snarky response shitpoast by someone that clearly knows less than shit

Yes, I agree! The above perfectly describes your previous two posts on the topic!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ah yes! Clearly CDPR management are saints! The CEO is a genius! By gosh! Extra development time takes money! Who is going to pay for that? Gee whiz, there isn't any possible way a 10B company can secure funding for another 6-12, whatever it takes months! Surely they can't do that! Losing over half the company's value and eroding investor confidence means nothing! Let's push out a horrifically buggy and unacceptable product for a huge portion of their consumers instead and put a huge question mark on the reputation of a studio that lives or dies by the success of games they release every half decade!

you've clearly got it all figured out, the CEO deserves a massive bonus for all the amazing decisions made as of late!

 

[B-universe]

Ah yes! Clearly CDPR management are saints!

Well, Poland is a very Catholic country.
Who knows.

The CEO is a genius!

There 's two of them.
The board screwed up.

By gosh! Extra development time takes money! Who is going to pay for that?

You are.
All about people putting their money where their mouth is.
And since it's their money, not yours, they get to manage it, no you.

When they succeed they reap the rewards, when they mismanage, they have to deal with the backlash.

But you don't get to manage other people's money, especially when you seem to know so little about the company you're trying to manage.

Hopefully you'll understand the key difference in saying there's evidence for mismanagement and saying they could have delayed the game for another 6-months. Because one of the possible consequences of mismanagement is that they had no leeway, which is precisely what Adam Badowski seems to be hinting at in the quote I provided.
Precisley.

But please keep referring to those who disagree with you as "bootlickers".
Buffoonery makes for a more lively thread.

Gee whiz, there isn't any possible way a 10B company can secure funding for another 6-12, whatever it takes months!

Send them your resumé.

It's so darn easy and the board missed it. If only the board would listen to your financial expertise. If only!

Alternatively, you could pay one additional year of development out of your own pocket. I know. It's so much easier to manage other people's money. And risk-free as well!

Surely they can't do that! Losing over half the company's value and eroding investor confidence means nothing!

Half? As in of today?
Yes, you are very precise with your figures.
Who would have thought.

Maybe one day you and whoever writes headlines for Jason Schreier will realize that until you actually sell stocks you haven't actually lost anything, for the simple reason the market is dynamic and can recover eventually.

The situation can also get worse, though. Today, for example, the stock's in the red again. But the point holds.

Let's push out a horrifically buggy and unacceptable product for a huge portion of their consumers instead and put a huge question mark on the reputation of a studio that lives or dies by the success of games they release every half decade!

It was an unfortunate outcome.
No question about it.

That's very different from claiming - with the usual lack of evidence - that they could have easily done different at this point in time.

you've clearly got it all figured out, the CEO deserves a massive bonus for all the amazing decisions made as of late!

If those with the mandate and legitimacy want to give the CEOs a bonus, what's it to me? It's their money. Not mine and certainly not yours for either of us to bitch and moan.

But some shareholders might have a different opinion as to who deserves a bonus in 2020, though.

Keep them coming.

 

[SF Kosmo]

The CEOs are also the founders and, if I remember correctly, two of the biggest individual shareholders. It's their company. How much do you know about CD Projekt RED? Because Adam Badowski is not the CEO. He is game director , studio head and member of the board (source).

Gosh, could it be there's a lot of info the public doesn't know? Gosh, is it really true you can't even be bothered to check the publicly known info?

I'm sure the Board's hearts will weep as Mr. James Sawyer Ford decrees the CEOs must go.
I know mine would.



"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"



How do you know it could have been avoided?
It's one thing to say there's good evidence for mismanagement, it's quite another to claim a specific decision was avoidable at a specific point in time.

Do you know anything about the financial situation of the company? Check.
Do you know anything about the possible contractual obligations?
Check.
Do you know anything about possible marketing deals?
Check.
Do you know of anything about other ongoing projects?
Check.

That wealth of knowledge of yours.

The armchair CEOs of billionaire companies should be sending out resumés. So much raw talent going to waste on a gaming forum.

Case in point, straight from the horse's mouth:

Adam Badowski, Game Director, on mandatory Crunch (my emphasis):

(source)



Of course they Should.
And they should also send the check to you. Somebody has to pay for extended development time.

Thanks for volunteering!



So you've decided to inflict your dumb takes not just on the politics section of the forum, where they've been and endless source of laughter and deserved derision, and visit that copyrighted combination of profound ignorance and arrogance upon the gaming section as well?

Ok.

First off, all of the groups they've "hurt" - the language is just oh so precious in its wokeness - can disinvest, quit or never buy another CDPR title again if they so want. Right? Investors can sell, developers can kiss goodbye to paid overtime and quit and gamers get a refund. Right?

Investors, specifically, might want to pause for a moment. The board you're so keen to dismiss took a stock worth less than USD 2 in 2012 to one which is currently trading at USD 78.89 (source). I'm sure you can figure out the math, but it's measured in the 100s of %.

Cough, cough.

Secondly, and most importantly, what gave you the impression all they're doing and going to do to reverse the situation can be found in a highly curated summary by Mr. Jason Schreier? Could it be plans are confidential? Gosh, could it be plans have to be thought though for some time and not disclosed during a Zoom call, not least because publicly traded companies have legal obligations to the shareholders?

Have you heard of legal obligations of publicly traded companies with regard to disclosing info? Have you heard of insider trading accusations?

Apparently, you have not. That pragmatism of yours must only apply to shopping lists.

Please, won't you and the other self-proclaimed centrist of the board form an alliance of sorts called "Pathetic Takes Unlimited"?

You'd make a great CEO of Pathetic Takes Unlimited.
That much I can safely say.



You don't say.
Who could have thought that reading your introduction?
Who?



And yet, surprise, surmise., you were agreeing with calls for the CEOs to step down. Personally, I've given up on you ever showing a vestige of consistency.



And I'd say you cannot give that which you ostensibly lack.

Jesus, dude, all this really misses the point, which is not that CDPR is a horrible dev or Cyberpunk is the most broken game ever -- I actually love the game a lot.

But what they need to do is rebuild trust. Based on results alone we have to say that the decision to launch, and the pretty "misleading" statements about the game's readiness has been catastrophic for the company. And the only answer they gave to that is "Oops, my bad," and I don't think that's enough to satisfy anyone, really.

I'm not saying everyone at the company needs to be gone, but I think they need to take a stand and say "This is unacceptable, and we've identified the person responsible and he will no longer be working here."

People really want accountability in order to be able to put their trust back in the company. When the fuck up is bad enough, sometimes putting a head on a spike is the only thing that will rebuild that trust.

 

[B-universe]

Jesus, dude, all this really misses the point, which is not that CDPR is a horrible dev or Cyberpunk is the most broken game ever -- I actually love the game a lot.

But what they need to do is rebuild trust. Based on results alone we have to say that the decision to launch, and the pretty "misleading" statements about the game's readiness has been catastrophic for the company. And the only answer they gave to that is "Oops, my bad," and I don't think that's enough to satisfy anyone, really.

I'm not saying everyone at the company needs to be gone, but I think they need to take a stand and say "This is unacceptable, and we've identified the person responsible and he will no longer be working here."

People really want accountability in order to be able to put their trust back in the company. When the fuck up is bad enough, sometimes putting a head on a spike is the only thing that will rebuild that trust.

Again, it's been explained to you why public companies cannot disclose plans willy-nilly. It's potentially illegal . Do you really need to be reminded that devs learned about the last delay shortly before CDPR went public with the announcement, probably because of legal considerations? What if devs own stocks and get wind of plans first-hand and start selling or make a discrete phone call to their auntie, who does own stocks?

As for the public, I'd lie to see evidence the "public" at large is asking for a head. Media and forum posts don't strike me as the right sample. Regardless, the "public" is not owed anything because the "public" doesn't own the company. if the "public" has lost trust in CDPR, the public can stop pre-ordering - which was the original and repeated advice from CDPR themselves - or stop buying CDPR games altogether. That's it. That's how the public, the real public, communicates with companies. Then it'll be up to CDPR to follow suit or not.

In the case of developers, the door is always open. Developers work for CDPR. They do not own CDPR and so they do not manage CDPR. This will remain true even if the board screws-up yet again. The board will still have the legitimacy and the mandate to manage the company. If developers hate it there so much - and Jason's sources just might - they should leave. It's not management who has to change in order to mould itself to the vision of this or that individual employee. It's exactly the other way around. If CDPR starts haemorrhaging top talent, they will have a problem and be forced to adapt.

Does this mean upper management never screws-up? No. Does this mean upper management hasn't screwed-up? No, definitely not. They did screw up. Who, why, when, and how they screwed-up remains to be cleared-up. So far all I've read are wild guesses and hot takes from people who sometimes don't even know the head of whom they're asking. Still nothing of that legitimizes an inversion of the proper roles: who manages and who is managed by.

About shareholders. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, you know? Formal mechanisms are in place. Publicly traded companies have formal mechanisms shareholders can appeal to if they want to change leadership. I would trust shareholders with expertise and access to confidential knowledge you and I don't have to be in a better position to assess whether the current leadership is the right one than me and you. You have zero knowledge about the inner workings of the company.

One last word. Just who the flying truck do you think is going to replace the founders, who are in it for the love of games and of the business, hey? Who do you think those International Funds would put in charge of CDPR if Iwinski (but maybe no Kiicinski), for example, weren't there? You really think those pension funds would put a passionate gamer in charge? Care to comment on the probability of them recruiting a high-profile exec from Ubisoft or EA with the chief mission of increasing profitability? Do you think those funds are in it for the love of videogames?

Be careful what you wish for.

Regrettably, you give me the impression you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[SF Kosmo]

As for the public, I'd lie to see evidence the "public" at large is asking for a head. Media and forum posts don't strike me as the right sample. Regardless, the "public" is not owed anything because the "public" doesn't own the company. if the "public" has lost trust in CDPR, the public can stop pre-ordering - which was the original and repeated advice from CDPR themselves - or stop buying CDPR games altogether. That's it. That's how the public, the real public, communicates with companies. Then it'll be up to CDPR to follow suit or not.

This is true, I think the pressure for a firing has to come more directly from the board, but the public optics are also part of that, in the sense that investors might see it as something that will restore some public trust and that it might be genuinely good for the long term health of the company to get someone who is better able to understand these logistical challenges.

It needs to be said, this wasn't a decision made out of greed, like many seem to think. CDPR didn't need to release by Christmas. Their fiscal year ends in April, and the game was originally scheduled for a spring release. No, this was a decision made out of incompetence, the result of maangement that tells its staff to get it done, and doesn't listen in return. And while they're surely learning a hard lesson right now, I think there's a strong argument that CDPR needs someone who is a little more experienced to make these kinds of calls.

About shareholders. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, you know? Formal mechanisms are in place. Publicly traded companies have formal mechanisms shareholders can appeal to if they want to change leadership. I would trust shareholders with expertise and access to confidential knowledge you and I don't have to be in a better position to assess whether the current leadership is the right one than me and you. You have zero knowledge about the inner workings of the company.

Again, yes, to be clear, I think the board of investors and upper management have to all have serious talks about getting someone who better understands the realities of shipping a game that meets the standards they're shooting for. CDPR has been punching above their weight class in this way for a while; much of the company's senior leadership has been there from the beginning and doesn't actually have any experience managing a project of this size.

One last word. Just who the flying truck do you think is going to replace the founders, who are in it for the love of games and of the business, hey? Who do you think those International Funds would put in charge of CDPR if Iwinski, for example, weren't there? You really think those pension funds would put a passionate gamer in charge? Care to comment on the probability of them recruiting a high-profile exec from Ubisoft or EA with the chief mission of increasing profitability? Do you think those funds are in it for the love of videogames?

I don't know if it's the CEO or someone else that needs to be fired, but it does have to be someone's responsibility to make honest assessments about the state of their project and make decisions accordingly and clearly there was some breakdown in that regard.

I doubt all of the senior leadership in the country was united in this decision. Surely there were internal arguments. Figure out who the problem was and find someone who can make those decisions better.

 

[Outlier]

Guess I'll have to jump on the anti-CDPR corpo wagon.

Since there are/were story missions you could get stuck on, was more than enough reason to NOT release the game, this year.

CDPR did this to themselves. The world is just responding accordingly.

 

[CobraAB]

Sony Ponies shifting blame on the developer for their shit store policies? Hilarious.

Go back to making out with your XBox.

 

[sendit]

If you're angry 60 dollars didn't live up to your hopes and dreams. You may want to find another hobby.