You received discount if you own both previous two games there.Its 42.29 on gog and 53.99 on steam. Gog is the cheapest.
You received discount if you own both previous two games there.Its 42.29 on gog and 53.99 on steam. Gog is the cheapest.
GMG: "they didn't authorize us so we decided to sell their product anyway at a discounted rate that will harm their sales"
This gets my strong disapproval. It's probably legal, but it's the worst kind of grey market practice I can think of. CDPR is free to sell their product however they see fit. It's their product after all. This is literally no different than cdkeys.com and a dozen other sites that do this. I used to treat GMG differently, but not anymore.
From what I understand GMG still paid for those keys so CDPR did receive money even if it's not directly from GMG. I don't see how it's hurting them.
I don't own the previous two games.
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And setting price floors is grounds for a price fixing investigation. In the US, and moreso in Europe.
It's not de facto illegal as it was before 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/business/28cnd-bizcourt.html
However, it opens the door for an extremely complicated and still unresolved issue in competition litigation.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/com...ws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed
The answer is that it depends, and the situation is further complicated by CDPR being vertically integrated with GOG. If CDPR was asking for most favored nation clauses to be signed by GMG, it adds yet another layer of complication, both in the US and abroad.
While we are talking about price floors: The UK, for example, still consider resale price maintenance to be illegal, and has investigated cases involving it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resale_price_maintenance#United_Kingdom_law
By all accounts of what I'm seeing, I would find it extremely (extreeeemely) unlikely that this could ever be considered price fixing.
But price fixing is not a necessary condition for something to be considered anti-competitive, as you said.
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It isn't, not at first brush. There's no reason to believe that a GOG key sold by a third party has the same margin for CDPR as a GOG key sold directly. They still have to negotiate the retailer's share, which by all reasonable accounts should be greater than zero.
Yes. Where is the situation similar though? I don't think they can't control who sell it or not. If that would be the case Ebay, play-asia and Kingpin would have been sued into oblivion. The Lik Sang case never was contested anyway since they got sued in many different jurisdiction and they had no money to fight back. Not convinced it can be use as a proof of anything.
GMG is not GOG
What on earth are you rambling about?
Comparing GMG to CDkeys? wtf
Yes. Where is the situation similar though? I don't think they can't control who sell it or not. If that would be the case Ebay, play-asia and Kingpin would have been sued into oblivion. The Lik Sang case never was contested anyway since they got sued in many different jurisdiction and they had no money to fight back. Not convinced it can be use as a proof of anything.
Enlighten me on the difference? I'm not comparing the 2 corporations as a whole but specifically in context of this particular sale. It's legal yet unauthorized, which is the very definition of a grey market sale.
From what I understand GMG still paid for those keys so CDPR did receive money even if it's not directly from GMG. I don't see how it's hurting them.
Well, there is a difference between reselling keys purchased using stolen credit card information and reselling keys purchased from an authorized vendor.
Well, there is a difference between reselling keys purchased using stolen credit card information and reselling keys purchased from an authorized vendor.
GMG: "they didn't authorize us so we decided to sell their product anyway at a discounted rate that will harm their sales"
This gets my strong disapproval. It's probably legal, but it's the worst kind of grey market practice I can think of. CDPR is free to sell their product however they see fit. It's their product after all. This is literally no different than cdkeys.com and a dozen other sites that do this. I used to treat GMG differently, but not anymore.
From what I understand GMG still paid for those keys so CDPR did receive money even if it's not directly from GMG. I don't see how it's hurting them.
Thing is, they might be buying from someplace like Russia or whatever where they have discounted rates because the buyers there aren't wealthy and they can easily turn to piracy. By selling those keys to the west they're effectively doing shady gray market business and a using the system. Alternatively, they might be buying from non legit sellers like g2a who allegedly sell stuff like stolen keys. Them not saying where they got their keys is very fishy.
How much to you want to bet that the next response will be "Not my problem"?
Thing is, they might be buying from someplace like Russia or whatever where they have discounted rates because the buyers there aren't wealthy and they can easily turn to piracy. By selling those keys to the west they're effectively doing shady gray market business and a using the system. Alternatively, they might be buying from non legit sellers like g2a who allegedly sell stuff like stolen keys. Them not saying where they got their keys is very fishy.
If you take GMG at their word, they specifically said they purchased the keys from "third parties and retailers that were approved by CD Projekt RED" it's not too difficult to see why they won't specify where, considering that cdpr might cut them off then as well
I don't think it's intentionally malicious either. But the kind of discount being offered even before the game is out when the sale was not authorized... does that not strike you as questionable at the very least?
Unless you can prove otherwise, the discount is not malicious. GMG usually has a 20% discount on every new release they sell on their site anyways.
It's hurting GOG's sales. CDPR does not necessarily make the same margins through every channel.
If you take GMG at their word, they specifically said they purchased the keys from "third parties and retailers that were approved by CD Projekt RED" it's not too difficult to see why they won't specify where, considering that cdpr might cut them off then as well
GMG: "they didn't authorize us so we decided to sell their product anyway at a discounted rate that will harm their sales"
This gets my strong disapproval. It's probably legal, but it's the worst kind of grey market practice I can think of. CDPR is free to sell their product however they see fit. It's their product after all. This is literally no different than cdkeys.com and a dozen other sites that do this. I used to treat GMG differently, but not anymore.
I don't think it's intentionally malicious either. But the kind of discount being offered even before the game is out when the sale was not authorized... does that not strike you as questionable at the very least?
You have to look at the bigger picture. Giving such low price might devalue the product across all market and it'll hurt them in long term.If GMG is buying keys and reselling at a loss then I don't know what we're supposed to be complaining about. As long as what they are doing is legal and it is giving me the consumer a better value then they are doing the lord's work as far as I'm concerned.
If CDPR wants to complain because they lose some margin from potential GOG sales, I understand, but they are still getting paid.
On another note, I was always and still am planning to buy through GOG since I own the first two there so no hard feelings any direction.
No, it doesn't because they offer the same type of discount on other new releases. They are taking a hit on their own margins to give a cheaper price to their customers.I don't think it's intentionally malicious either. But the kind of discount being offered even before the game is out when the sale was not authorized... does that not strike you as questionable at the very least?
You have to look at the bigger picture. Giving such low price might devalue the product across all market and it'll hurt them in long term.
No, it doesn't because they offer the same type of discount on other new releases. They are taking a hit on their own margins to give a cheaper price to their customers.
That doesn't even make a lot of sense. How would a business make money by buying games at full price and resell them at half?
I feel like OP should be updated with giant bold letters stating that CDPR has only warned against buying keys due to not knowing where they are coming from. That's the entire basis for this discussion but people have gone into tangents of price fixing and pushing GoG over anything else.
Such a cluster fuck and all goes back to Gamespot and their shoddy reporting.
If you take GMG at their word, they specifically said they purchased the keys from "third parties and retailers that were approved by CD Projekt RED" it's not too difficult to see why they won't specify where, considering that cdpr might cut them off then as well
Who said they bought them at full price?
Maybe they are getting bulk discount from their suppliers? Who knows?That doesn't even make a lot of sense. How would a business make money by buying games at full price and resell them at half?
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Assuming GMG did not get those keys illegally (cutting out CDPR of their profit), it's shittier to cut out an online retailer to push your platform. It's business, but shitty business.
I'm guessing GMG has a legitimate source they don't want to namedrop, to avoid burning bridges.
CDPR is not the one getting pushed around here...
They bought them from a middleman so at the very least has to be higher than the price CDPR set.
Okay, but accusing them of buying keys purchased through stolen credit card information is a bit much.If we are to take them at their word, they don't buy keys from third parties according to their blurb:
"We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence."
So that's a lie to begin with and when the chain of trust breaks down who knows what else they could be lying about.
Even if the entire market decides to loss lead the game, they are still buying their bulk keys directly from CDPR at the same price. Again, it hurts the GOG margins but it otherwise doesn't affect them. This is not something customers should be worrying over.You have to look at the bigger picture. Giving such low price might devalue the product across all market and it'll hurt them in long term.
other guy fails to mention it gets discounts depending if you own witcher 1 or/and 2. you you own neither its 60
Okay, but accusing them of buying keys purchased through stolen credit card information is a bit much.
Gamestop does the same thing, no? Sure it's used copies, but even during launch you can find one or two open copies for 6-7 bucks cheaper than the new price.
It's business as usual. Yes, it's underhanded to buy it from a retailer that's approved by CDPR, but in this digital world you have to skirt the lines of morality in order to keep your business afloat. GMG realizes W3 is a hot commodity.
Let's try a thought exercise on the mechanics of what may have happened here.
The Witcher 3 is currently being sold on Steam, GOG, and other secondary platforms. From the information we know so far, it appears that, after an unsuccessful round of negotiations, CDPR has decided to not supply keys directly to GMG.
From the perspective of the business, we have the following scenarios:
- A sale from Steam, through which CDPR obtains approximately 70% of the price of sale
- A sale from GOG, through which CDPR obtains an undisclosed percentage of the price of sale. Presumably, being vertically integrated with CDPR, that amount is above 70%.
- A sale from other retailers and key sellers, who buy keys wholesales from CDPR at an undisclosed price.
Conditional on selling outside of Steam, it stands to reason that customers are more likely to be price-sensitive after leaving the predominant PC platform. GMG, in turn, has built a reputation for having the lowest prices in the market.
This, I assume, comes through by employing a razor-thin margins approach. They do not sell console games, do not ship anything, and work their business by cutting their own margins to the bone for most major new releases. Assuming very thin margins, then, we may expect their share of profits to sit anywhere between 25 and 33%, depending on the game -- roughly in line with Steam.
The margins from selling on Steam are fixed at 70% after Valve's cut, but is a function of the price, which encourages CDPR to avoid a price war. Furthermore, a faster speed of price decreases also decreases the competitiveness of the platform that's likely to have the largest margin for them -- GOG.
By attempting to block out GMG, then, CDPR can cut off the head of price competition in the PC gaming market: Prices are set at $53.99, with additional price differentiation for owners of the previous games, and in turn also obtains a proportionally larger share of the customer base on their own platform with higher margins.
In short: GMG's pricing practices can lead to lower prices from everyone else in general. But this particularly affects CDPR, since the competition with their platform directly affects the margin that they get by selling on GOG. Selling GOG keys on other retailers should be somewhat in line with selling a key in Steam -- the retailers get a cut, or Valve gets a cut. What GMG did was give nearly all of the "cut" back to the consumer. But in this case, moreso than with developers and publishers that do NOT hold platforms, CDPR's margins are more impacted than they otherwise would have been.
Restricting GMG from selling keys was a shrewd business move. But GMG didn't choose to just not sell the game, and so here we are.
Strictly based on the information we know -- It's ridiculous to excuse either CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG, or GMG's decision to resort to another seller. There are two separate, if connected, issues to be analyzed: The negotiation with GMG and their subsequent move. One doesn't excuse the other, and we need more information to actually analyze either without making quite a few assumptions like I did above.
Okay but I wouldn't put that company on the same level as "a lot of gaffers"To be fair they might not be aware of the nature of the sites they're buying from. A lot of gaffers don't know some of those sites aren't legit either.
You say that like it only applies to CDPR. If GMG gets cut out by their competitor, then they're more than welcome to buy keys from reputable sources and sell them at a loss. If that hurts GOG, well, GMG is not obligated to care about their competition.I beg to differ. I strongly believe that the creator of a product has every right to dictate how their product is sold. Is that selfish? Sure. But there's nothing shitty about it. CDPR is not obliged to care about their competition for their own product.
Presumably, if GMG is buying from authorized sellers, then CDPR is getting their cut. It's just currently unknown if they're buying the keys from out of region.So GMG will stoop to reselling keys if they can't get them directly. I don't think legitimate sources are enough to really make it okay as it's circumventing the developer's cut, which should be the whole point of selling their product.
So GMG will stoop to reselling keys if they can't get them directly. I don't think legitimate sources are enough to really make it okay as it's circumventing the developer's cut, which should be the whole point of selling their product. Although, given hawk's post, this is an unusual scenario stemming from GOG, GMG's actions have still managed to shake my faith in their service. Now, every time I buy something from them, I'll have to wonder, "is this money going to the developer?" That isn't a question I want to ponder.
How a product is sold? Sure.I beg to differ. I strongly believe that the creator of a product has every right to dictate how their product is sold. Is that selfish? Sure. But there's nothing shitty about it. CDPR is not obliged to care about their competition for their own product.
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I'm really glad I'm getting Witcher 3 for free now. Them throwing GMG under the bus like that is a really poor move.
How a product is sold? Sure.
What people do after they buy your product?
You should have no power on that.
If I want to buy a million copies of the witcher 3 and sell them for 5$ For whatever reasons I have, nothing can stop me. Its not shady, its not illegal. I can do whatever the fck i want to keys I buy