Cellular games... better than DS & PSP!

Cell phones games could be great if there was a proper distribution system. At the moment, the system is so horrible that it is just not worth it.
 
Ironclad_Ninja said:
Cell phones games could be great if there was a proper distribution system. At the moment, the system is so horrible that it is just not worth it.
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Are you in Japan? I dont see how the system is horrible, at least in the Japanese implementation. I have subscriptions to Capcom Party and Konami DX. For 300 or 500 yen a month, I get as many minigames as I can download, plus one platinum game a month (So far I have street fighter 2 and Makaimura 2). Konami DX is also a tsukaihoudai (all you can use) service for a monthly fee.

They attach my monthly fee to my phone bill. The game validates itself once a month online and then you can play even in the subway when you dont have connection.

If I go looking for games, it is a simple trip into iMenu. Furthermore, some of the 900 and 901i series DoCoMo phones come preloaded with Squenix RPGs.

Ironclad - what kind of distribution system do you propose that is better?
 
Ironclad_Ninja said:
Cell phones games could be great if there was a proper distribution system. At the moment, the system is so horrible that it is just not worth it.
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I take it you don't mean on Japanese cell phones, cause getting games on my vodafone v601sh couldnt be any easier.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Ironclad - what kind of distribution system do you propose that is better?
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For one thing, a system where you can actually own the game, and maybe transfer it to any new phone you get it in the future. I'm not entirely sure how "portable" software is in phones outside of the U.S., but here, things are locked down pretty tightly.

For example, on my phone, if I wanted to buy, say, Bejeweled, that's no problem. $7, and I have it forever...on this phone. If I want it on my new phone, I need to cough up another $7.

As long as companies keep playing these games (har!), cell phone gaming will never, ever be as popular as their counterparts from Nintendo and Sony.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Are you in Japan? I dont see how the system is horrible, at least in the Japanese implementation. I have subscriptions to Capcom Party and Konami DX. For 300 or 500 yen a month, I get as many minigames as I can download, plus one platinum game a month (So far I have street fighter 2 and Makaimura 2). Konami DX is also a tsukaihoudai (all you can use) service for a monthly fee.

They attach my monthly fee to my phone bill. The game validates itself once a month online and then you can play even in the subway when you dont have connection.

If I go looking for games, it is a simple trip into iMenu. Furthermore, some of the 900 and 901i series DoCoMo phones come preloaded with Squenix RPGs.

Ironclad - what kind of distribution system do you propose that is better?
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With that and considering how neither DS or PSP arent portable, mobile phone games have a good chance of getting ahead.
 
xsarien said:
For one thing, a system where you can actually own the game, and maybe transfer it to any new phone you get it in the future. I'm not entirely sure how "portable" software is in phones outside of the U.S., but here, things are locked down pretty tightly.

For example, on my phone, if I wanted to buy, say, Bejeweled, that's no problem. $7, and I have it forever...on this phone. If I want it on my new phone, I need to cough up another $7.

As long as companies keep playing these games (har!), cell phone gaming will never, ever be as popular as their counterparts from Nintendo and Sony.
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Do you want some tissues... Ill take over 50 games (Capcom Party) a month on a subscription basis over paying 7 bucks to own one. A cheap puzzle game at that.

If I buy a new phone, all they do is transfer my subscriptions. Downloading games on a true 3g network takes at most 60 seconds anyways.
 
I think he means here in America, where every cell phone and every cell phone manufacturer and every plan has a different set of available titles, and among those available titles there are different versions of many titles, most of which are shittier versions of games already available on any number of game systems, and then even shitter versions of those already shitty cell phone versions made for cell phones that aren't powerful enough to play the original shitty cell phone versions, and nearly all of these available shitty libraries themselves are nowhere near Japan's selections, let alone our cell phone's technological prowess in comparison.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Are you in Japan? I dont see how the system is horrible, at least in the Japanese implementation. I have subscriptions to Capcom Party and Konami DX. For 300 or 500 yen a month, I get as many minigames as I can download, plus one platinum game a month (So far I have street fighter 2 and Makaimura 2). Konami DX is also a tsukaihoudai (all you can use) service for a monthly fee.

They attach my monthly fee to my phone bill. The game validates itself once a month online and then you can play even in the subway when you dont have connection.

If I go looking for games, it is a simple trip into iMenu. Furthermore, some of the 900 and 901i series DoCoMo phones come preloaded with Squenix RPGs.

Ironclad - what kind of distribution system do you propose that is better?
Click to expand...
This system seems great. There really isn't a system in the United States. Various providers offer various games. IMO, there needs to be one central unit that could provide any game necessary. Quite frankly, if they were make the acquiring of games easier, I am almost sure that more people would be over it.
 
IMO, there needs to be one central unit that could provide any game necessary. Quite frankly, if they were make the acquiring of games easier, I am almost sure that more people would be over it.
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+1 buyers for the Phantom :D
 
CO_Andy said:
+1 buyers for the Phantom :D
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No, no, no, no, no. I am sorry, but no. No. Just no. Yeah, no!

You see, there are different cell-phone service providers. Certain providers get rights to certain games. If I want a certain game, I have to cater to that certain provider regardless of my cellphone. This system needs to be rectified.

Oh, and if you ever mention the Phantom again, I don't know what I am going to do.
 
tetsuoxb said:
Do you want some tissues...
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Something tells me that you're a big ignorant to the rather unique - and completely muddled - U.S. cellular market. We can't even get our carrier signals straight. GSM vs. CDMA vs. a fading TDMA vs. AMPS. And that's before you start getting into phones that are locked down, crippled, and company policies that kindly (and I'm being oh-so-sarcastic here) tell you to go fuck yourself if you buy a new phone and just want to transfer your pictures over.

You get to move your purchases over to a new phone for free? Hey, you're awesome. I have to deal with companies that disable Bluetooth on phones because they're afraid I'd load stuff on the phone for free that I'd otherwise have to pay for through them.

And $7 was at the high end of the spectrum, there are subscriptions as well, but the cost of them is often more expensive than just buying the game outright. Doing the math between paying $3 a month vs. paying $7 isn't too hard. But in the end you get boned anyway, which is just sleazy.

Shit, man, Apple - hardly what one would call a price-friendly company - lets you take iTunes purchases across 3 computers before they call you on it.

Monk said:
With that and considering how neither DS or PSP arent portable
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Say what?

They're not handheld, like the iPod or SP, but they're definitely portable.
 
Actually, no I am not a "big ignorant" to the US Cellular market. It sucks all the way around.... with sprint vision being the only service I like because alot of the sanyos they offer are actually old model Japanese cell phones.

the CDMA/GSM thing will straighten itself out because Cingular/ATT has a legally binding contract with DoCoMo to deploy WCDMA 3g networks in the US within a certain time frame or have to fork over billions.

I feel for the fact that Tmobile/Verizon or whatever dopey service jacked up your bluetooth.... but when I asked you what system was better you launched into a misinformed tirade (with the caveat that you might be misinformed duly noted by yourself) about ownership as a better method.

For one thing, a system where you can actually own the game, and maybe transfer it to any new phone you get it in the future. I'm not entirely sure how "portable" software is in phones outside of the U.S., but here, things are locked down pretty tightly.

For example, on my phone, if I wanted to buy, say, Bejeweled, that's no problem. $7, and I have it forever...on this phone. If I want it on my new phone, I need to cough up another $7.
Click to expand...

But then here you say:

You get to move your purchases over to a new phone for free? Hey, you're awesome. I have to deal with companies that disable Bluetooth on phones because they're afraid I'd load stuff on the phone for free that I'd otherwise have to pay for through them.
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Sarcasm aside, the thread is about Japanese cell phone games, the Japanese distribution system is awesome, you said the subscription model sucks by using the US market as a comparison and when it turns out that the Japanese market isnt fucked like the US market, you vent about other ways you are getting screwed.

Stick to the topic at hand please. Mobile distribution of games.
 
I love looking at the games on that page. So damn cool. :) What's that "Chaos Breaker" fighting game from taito? Isn't that a pretty recent title?

I'd be all over some of those cell phone games in Japan, but here in the States, I'll stick with my NES, Master System/Game Gear, Atari ST, GB/GBC, and PC-Engine (just got this...so awesome being able to play Raiden and Military Madness on my phone) emulators for my Treo 650. Hundreds of games...FREE.
 
tetsuoxb said:
the CDMA/GSM thing will straighten itself out because Cingular/ATT has a legally binding contract with DoCoMo to deploy WCDMA 3g networks in the US within a certain time frame or have to fork over billions.

I feel for the fact that Tmobile/Verizon or whatever dopey service jacked up your bluetooth.... but when I asked you what system was better you launched into a misinformed tirade (with the caveat that you might be misinformed duly noted by yourself) about ownership as a better method.
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It was (and is) Verizon, the second-largest (edged out by Cingular by, like, 2-3 million customers or so, statistically they're both ginormous) carrier in the country. They're on CDMA, Cingular's on GSM. It's annoying, to say the least.



Sarcasm aside, the thread is about Japanese cell phone games, the Japanese distribution system is awesome, you said the subscription model sucks by using the US market as a comparison and when it turns out that the Japanese market isnt fucked like the US market, you vent about other ways you are getting screwed.

Stick to the topic at hand please. Mobile distribution of games.
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I guess I'm not seeing the super-secret, invisible "Japanese" up there in the subject header. But anyway, I am on topic. I don't see how bringing the problems with cell gaming distribution in the U.S. into this is some kind of threadjack, especially since I'm not denying anything about how Japan has their head on straight regarding this (seemingly) simple system. It's a mangled mess in the U.S., and until that's cleared up, it won't really gain anything more than token support from developers over here, let alone people to actually buy it in either subscription or full-purchase form.
 
I just buy my cell phone stuff on the Web and download it to my phone. No restrictions on use, I can keep a permanent copy on my PC, and its probably faster than trying to download stuff from the carrier.
 
tetsuoxb said:
The jphonegames in the link kinda gives it away.
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No, really, it doesn't. You assumed it was about Japanese games, I assumed it was about games that just happened to be Japanese, but didn't exclude others from discussion.

Rhindle said:
I just buy my cell phone stuff on the Web and download it to my phone. No restrictions on use, I can keep a permanent copy on my PC, and its probably faster than trying to download stuff from the carrier.
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Which phone, if you don't mind my asking (and what OS is it running)? Doing that on anything but a Treo or similar PDA style phone in the U.S. is, like, a complete pipe dream. (Well, short of hacking the firmware, anyway.)
 
Getting back on topic, I just want to say that I hate and love Konami more than I ever did. I would buy Metal Gear 1 + 2 and Castlevania in a heartbeat, and it would be godly if I could get a subscription. Also, Ys and Arc the Lad look awesome as well. Some of the other games on that list like Chaos Breaker look great.

:lol @ Ape Escape Kart Racing
 
xsarien said:
Which phone, if you don't mind my asking (and what OS is it running)? Doing that on anything but a Treo or similar PDA style phone in the U.S. is, like, a complete pipe dream. (Well, short of hacking the firmware, anyway.)
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Motorola MPX200, running Windows Smartphone OS.

You can transfer software (and MP3s, videos etc.) either directly via USB cable or by saving it on an SD card and running it off the card.
 
xsarien said:
Which phone, if you don't mind my asking (and what OS is it running)? Doing that on anything but a Treo or similar PDA style phone in the U.S. is, like, a complete pipe dream. (Well, short of hacking the firmware, anyway.)
Click to expand...
Well, Series 60 Symbian phones are becoming more and more popular and their prices are dropping so these smart phones arent that uncommon anymore. IIRC Nokia said they have sold over 20 million S60 smartphones phones and during this year they expect to sell 50 million more of them. U.S is little bit behind from the rest of world but I have heard Nokia 6620 is quite popular there.
Kiriku said:
Prince of Persia: WW is a really cool and deep cellphone game, you should all try it. :)
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Yeah, it has some really nice 2D graphics. And considering its "just" a little java game, even better.
 
cybamerc said:
Phones suck for games. You have to be crazy to want to play games on those things.
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And your black&white opinions suck too. I dont see any problem playing some good games on my cell phone if I have 5 minutes to spare or boring meeting/lecture to attend.
 
Apart from Ngage (which is a separate joke), gaming on a phone is a complete joke in Europe. At least last time I checked. Shoot 'em ups and platform games with 4-way control (why do they bother?) and what have we. I wish we weren't so many lightyears behind Japan in this respect. I don't mind bringing a real portable with me, not at all, but more choice is always fun.
 
kpop100 said:
I take it you don't mean on Japanese cell phones, cause getting games on my vodafone v601sh couldnt be any easier.
Click to expand...

Plug me with a site. I have a vodafone V601t
 
Nintendo DS actually seems to be getting a lot of mobile crossover development. Firms like Gameloft, Interactive Brains and Tasuke are developing on a dedicated game platform for the first time with DS, I think the machine was probably designed with this sort of crossover in mind. As much of a threat as Sony's PSP is, I'd say mobiles are far more threatening to the Game Boy line.
 
Trying to play MG1 on my vodaphone 601T...not so good. They need to start building little d-pads onto cell phones, escaping from enemy soldiers is a difficult task with a cellphone.
 
Blackace said:
come on Kpop hook it up!
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hehe sorry I've been on here more like every couple days lately.

I just connect to Vodafone web. go under keitai games, they are all listed there by genre. you have to use the japanese version of vodafone web, the english version brings you to a dummed down website with 3 versions of pong :lol

Anyway, you can download the games as well, and play even if your phone is out of range of a connection. mine is right now is since im in a whole different country atm :D
 
So, how far have these games come in terms of performance? From what I've seen, most keitai games tend to perform pretty poorly, even on high end units. The best performance I've seen is 30 fps. Are there ANY high-spec 60 fps 3D games available? Are there any devices available that can play these games in a less than akward fashion?

It just seems like we have good games limited by small screens, poor performance, and less than ideal control schemes...
 
dark10x said:
So, how far have these games come in terms of performance? From what I've seen, most keitai games tend to perform pretty poorly, even on high end units. The best performance I've seen is 30 fps. Are there ANY high-spec 60 fps 3D games available? Are there any devices available that can play these games in a less than akward fashion?

It just seems like we have good games limited by small screens, poor performance, and less than ideal control schemes...
Click to expand...

you can pretty much expect lower performance. ridge racer runs at more like 15fps at best. simple games like mr driller run smoothly though.
 
kpop100 said:
hehe sorry I've been on here more like every couple days lately.

I just connect to Vodafone web. go under keitai games, they are all listed there by genre. you have to use the japanese version of vodafone web, the english version brings you to a dummed down website with 3 versions of pong :lol

Anyway, you can download the games as well, and play even if your phone is out of range of a connection. mine is right now is since im in a whole different country atm :D
Click to expand...

awesome! about to download me wizardry 2 or 3 :lol
 
jarrod said:
Nintendo DS actually seems to be getting a lot of mobile crossover development. Firms like Gameloft, Interactive Brains and Tasuke are developing on a dedicated game platform for the first time with DS, I think the machine was probably designed with this sort of crossover in mind. As much of a threat as Sony's PSP is, I'd say mobiles are far more threatening to the Game Boy line.
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That would be a good way to spin it - I'm more pessimistic and say that their tech laggard strategy backfired and put them technologically into same league as current mobile phones (although processing power can't buy ergonomics!).

Mobile gaming is what Clayton M. Christensen would call Disruptive Innovation. Something that starts as technologically far less advanced and not considered serious by existing players, then just sneaks by, eventually leaving industry incumbents wondering what hit them. We are now witnessing this transition point, in my opinion.

It's pretty safe to assume that a new GB isn't due until 2006 end earliest. Yet by the end of this year, mobile phones have went so much past DS tech that it has to really pull some neat stuff with the dual screens and touch, maybe the alleged redesign to keep up. PSP is on the safe longer so it will manage to get a sustainable share - or so I think.
 
The biggest problem for cellphone games is the variation in hardware.

I am sure the market will continue to improve. Here in the UK there are quite afew mobile phone developers now.

The US phone market is lacking phone wise let alone game wise. Thats a seperate issue.
 
kpop100 said:
you can pretty much expect lower performance. ridge racer runs at more like 15fps at best. simple games like mr driller run smoothly though.
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No, even simple games like Mr. Driller run like shit. I've been playing the Vodaphone Mr. Driller for months and I thought it was normal. Then I tried the DS one and suddenly the game was super smooth and the blocks didn't stutter and pause as they fall :P

Also I've noticed that at least with Mr. Driller, as I play for a bit and the phone starts to heat up the game gets choppier and starts skipping :(

Dark10x, all the cellphone games I've played run at 15fps or below (many run at about 2-4fps...YsVI...). Thus for most stuff outside of turn-based or puzzle games they suck. Though MG1 seems like it's running at 100% MSX quality.
 
Bebpo said:
No, even simple games like Mr. Driller run like shit. I've been playing the Vodaphone Mr. Driller for months and I thought it was normal. Then I tried the DS one and suddenly the game was super smooth and the blocks didn't stutter and pause as they fall :P

Also I've noticed that at least with Mr. Driller, as I play for a bit and the phone starts to heat up the game gets choppier and starts skipping :(

Dark10x, all the cellphone games I've played run at 15fps or below (many run at about 2-4fps...YsVI...). Thus for most stuff outside of turn-based or puzzle games they suck. Though MG1 seems like it's running at 100% MSX quality.
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to be honest i havent played a version of driller recently besides the vodaphone version, so im not surprised
 
gaming on cell phones in america is shit. jamdat has a couple decent games that never seem to be out for the phone you own, gameloft actually has some great games (the exception to be sure), otherwise the handful of decent games besides those publishers are almost ALWAYS linked directly to either SprintPCS (sucks ass) or Verizon (sucks ass). Gaming on a GSM phone besides a few jamdat and gameloft games is pathetic.. sigh....

wish I could download some japanese jars :(
 
Chittagong said:
That would be a good way to spin it - I'm more pessimistic and say that their tech laggard strategy backfired and put them technologically into same league as current mobile phones (although processing power can't buy ergonomics!).

Mobile gaming is what Clayton M. Christensen would call Disruptive Innovation. Something that starts as technologically far less advanced and not considered serious by existing players, then just sneaks by, eventually leaving industry incumbents wondering what hit them. We are now witnessing this transition point, in my opinion.

It's pretty safe to assume that a new GB isn't due until 2006 end earliest. Yet by the end of this year, mobile phones have went so much past DS tech that it has to really pull some neat stuff with the dual screens and touch, maybe the alleged redesign to keep up. PSP is on the safe longer so it will manage to get a sustainable share - or so I think.
Click to expand...
Sure, in terms of raw output phones will have well eclipsed DS by year's end. They already have actually, PSP will probably be in the same boat by year's end actually. Fortunately for Nintendo the handheld games market has never had much to do with high end, high price solutions dominating the market. Yes the potential is there, especially with phones I'd agree, but application is key and right now mobiles are having trouble matching the experiences available on a GBA much less a DS or PSP. This is why dedicated game platforms almost always win out against other solutions, even when they come in much lower spec.

It's also worth pointing out that DS manages to hold it's own pretty well performance wise, despite having a rather slow ARM9 CPU. The custom 3D instuction set seems to go along way really... despite having a slower clocked ARM9 than N-Gage, DS seems to have about triple the 3D performance with tons of extra hardwires effects. Unless we start seeing phones shipping with dedicated GPUs en mass, I think DS will stay comfortably ahead of the curve overall for the next year or so. It obviously won't match high end solutions, but it seems more than competitive with any mass market solutions.
 
cel30b.gif


PLEASE TELL ME that's not a port of Bokosuka Wars (the WORST game ever, probably)
 
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