That sounds like defamation to me, Andy.
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CFB Offseason 2014: The Spartans End a B1G Case of Wiscy Dick, Cold Pizza for Victims
- Thread starter timetokill
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The ironing for me is that running plays quickly is the opposite of coaching someone up. It's catching the defense before they're prepared, that's nothing to do with coaching. Putting your best 11 out there vs their best 11 and kicking their ass is coaching them up, IMO.
The reality is that hurry up offenses are here and you have to have the right athletes that can play multiple positions if you're unable to sub.
Stanford seems to do alright. Florida State did alright against Auburn. Are they just getting lucky?
I would say they've figured out how to attack hurry up offenses due to facing it so much. A sound, experienced, and well coached defense can usually win out against any offense, IMO. I don't see how a 10 second runoff really hurts hurry up teams though. That's still only 10 seconds for a defense to sub.
The whole point of the HUNH is to prevent subs and tire the defense out. This rule would kill it off entirely, including the non-hurry-up version.
College football is supposed to be the source of innovation in the game...might as well just force everyone to run pro-style offenses with strict run/pass ratios.
I don't see the fun in this. How is 10 seconds going to affect anything with HUNH offenses?
It's not the 10 seconds. It's allowing subs no matter what.
Fair enough, so then it'll be up to the coaches running the HUNH to coach up their offenses to actually beat the opposing defenses with their abilities and execution.
How do you define good coaching? For an offense to be up-tempo, they have to be able to run their stuff really fast and really effectively. Wouldn't they have be well coached to do that?
^^^
The thing that really gets me is that the teams complaining are usually power running teams... Don't hear any complaints about tiring out a defense with that.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Just cause Norm Chow is the only Asian man on that list doesn't mean anything!
I consider Chip Kelly a pretty good offensive coach and one of the things he always talks about is how few plays his team has and how their success isn't because the defense is tired or confused but because they execute their plays so well.
Putting in a rule like this just seems like coaches admitting they can't stop simple offenses that execute really well.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Not sure how I feel about that proposed rule. Going back and forth on it now.
If their execution is the reason it works so well why would the proposed rule hurt such a team?
I think there could be a fair middle ground somewhere. Allowing defensive subs on any play might be a bit much, but maybe having an allowance for defensive subs on some sort of interval. I'd say on first downs, but that could be seen as "punishing" the offense for getting a first down. Or one defensive sub allowance per set of downs rather than after every first down, but that works out basically the same way but gives the defense more freedom to choose when.
Huntsville begs to differ. Couldn't get to work, roads sucked and my car couldn't maintain traction for anything.
If their execution is the reason it works so well why would the proposed rule hurt such a team?
I think there could be a fair middle ground somewhere. Allowing defensive subs on any play might be a bit much, but maybe having an allowance for defensive subs on some sort of interval. I'd say on first downs, but that could be seen as "punishing" the offense for getting a first down. Or one defensive sub allowance per set of downs rather than after every first down, but that works out basically the same way but gives the defense more freedom to choose when.
Huntsville begs to differ. Couldn't get to work, roads sucked and my car couldn't maintain traction for anything.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I don't agree with this. Your 11 on the field are the 11 you thought best to stop the 11 the other coach put out there. That's your best 11. Offense isn't putting anybody new in, it's still the same 11 on that side of the ball. If you have the wrong 11 in, that's on you. Stop them.
Another thing that kills me: A HUNH offense won't tire you out very much if they go three-and-out. But why try to stop them when I can just change the rules to do it for me?
We all know this isn't about safety, it's about not being lined up on defense. Much easier fix: when the umpire sets the ball, he keeps his hand up for a second or two until all the refs are set. When the hand goes down, the ball can be hiked. This would also get rid of the stupid exceptions, as the refs already move faster at the end of close games.
The one thing they do need to do is require that the offense be set in place for a slightly longer amount of time. There was a post on a Bama board some time ago detailing how Auburn "got away with" using illegal formations throughout the year because (presumably) the refs lacked sufficient time to observe how their players were lined up. I'm sure other HUNH schools have similarly benefited from their fast pace.
And that's a fair point to address, probably best from the booth.
I just don't know if "Law of Unintended Consequences" applies here, considering how easily all the issues created have been pointed out for this proposal. I would laugh at RichRod's idea, but I'd enjoy the irony of three down play which would hurt the slow power run teams even more.
I just don't know if "Law of Unintended Consequences" applies here, considering how easily all the issues created have been pointed out for this proposal. I would laugh at RichRod's idea, but I'd enjoy the irony of three down play which would hurt the slow power run teams even more.
I don't think good coaching is mutually exclusive between power running teams, defenses that can handle the HUNH, or pro-style offenses. You have good coaching in all areas. To run an up-tempo offense and succeed against all levels of competition, you have to be well coached. You can have an up tempo offense and crumble at the first sign of a good defense, which rules out good coaching, IMO.
Because it's more established. Power running has been the norm for years and years. HUNH is a relatively new thing at the college level. Coaches hate change.
I think the difference between this and a power running/pro-style atttack is that the latter does not restrict the other team from substituting. A pro-style attack that is working is just grinding the other team out and is generally effective because of play-action. The HUNH is generally effective because the other team isn't properly lined up or didn't have time to substitute.
HUNH is here to stay no matter what I feel about it, so it's important that defensive coaches know how to coach their players up in how to defend it.
Pro-style attacks also leverage motion quite a bit to confuse defenses. Why not make that illegal too? HUNU does this by snapping the ball before the defense has time to figure out they play.
If a good defense knows exactly what you are doing, there is very little chance for even the best of offenses to be effective.
If a good defense knows exactly what you are doing, there is very little chance for even the best of offenses to be effective.
I don't think the issue is confusion, it's lack of being ready before the ball is snapped. I'm surprised I'm coming down on Saban's side with this when my own team doesn't quite run a no huddle, but do get a ton of plays in. Only average 5 less per game than Ole Miss.
Even though I prefer defenses to have a chance to substitute, I doubt this rule change will go through and think that defenses have to learn to adapt to no huddle. It's been in the game now for years, no excuse at this point. It's not like the NFL where they're just now getting a sampling of it.
Purple Cheeto
Member
At its core Chip Kelly's running game is a power run game. The formations and tempos have changed but the plays haven't.
Same thing with Malzahns. They use formations to disguise it but the schemes are very traditional in how they run the ball.
True, it's a spread option attack which is closely related to the Wing-T, the Triple Option, Flexbone, etc.
Really what all these new guys are doing is just bringing back old fashioned offenses that are even older than "pro-style" I-formation football. And I barely see anyone strictly running I-formation these days.
Well one of the reason Saban hates HUNU is that his defenses communicate a lot and audible. Going fast kills that.
Right, the only reason this rule change is being proposed is because opposing defenses want more time. It's hilarious that they're trying to blame it on player safety. I mean, yeah, someone could be so exhausted that they're going to pass out or get a bad injury, but I'd imagine that to be the exception and not the rule.
It is also funny because Richt came from FSU where they were running tons of plays but has had to dial that back in years past because SEC officials already give a 12-14 second walkoff time to reset the chains and so they can get ready. He was pretty upset about that in 2004, but nobody seemed to care then.
Apparently, none of you realize that this isn't a year they can add new rules for new rules sake. Only rules involving player safety can be introduced this year.
http://btn.com/2014/02/12/new-rules-could-be-coming-in-college-football/
So yeah, the only way to even get this proposed change, is to latch it onto the "safety" issue.
http://btn.com/2014/02/12/new-rules-could-be-coming-in-college-football/
So yeah, the only way to even get this proposed change, is to latch it onto the "safety" issue.
Makes sense now. I didn't realize that they can't just propose new rules every year.
They are proposing a rule that if a targeting call is overturned, the 15 yard penalty can be overturned as well. That one is needed, badly.
Agreed.
What will they think of next? And when?
So we know when to not waste time trying to get in here.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
that first gaming crush thread tho
bucknuticus
Member
I swear, some of the shit on here is so weird....
"I swear, some of the shit on here is so weird." Said bucknuticus, gazing lovingly at his My Little Pony collection while firing up the latest version of his favorite gaming series, "LoliLoli Dating Sim 7: Just Because There Were Tentacles, Doesn't Mean It Wasn't Consensual."
Just realizing what crashed the site yesterday. People actually care about this crap? Goodness you'd think Nintendo had gone and done something original for once.
Not sure how I missed this, but if this new proposal goes into effect, the 10 second substitution rule wouldn't apply in the last 2 minutes of the game.
The Dawgcast does something called a Reverse Recruiting show, but I think it's a good idea to bring perspective to the recruiting nonsense. Basically they look at the class 4 years ago and see where they ended up. While stars are important and obviously impact how a team does, they're not necessarily an indicator of success.
This year was also the year that Jarvis Jones transferred, but had a great deal of question marks due to his injury at USC. Obviously, he panned out very well. Also, UGA's recruiting strategy changed some in 2011, but much more so in 2012. They took a lot of risks in 2010 with guys who may or may not qualify or guys who had character questions. Crowell and his class in 2011 (revisit this in a year!) really made them consider character issues a lot more.
Demetre Baker LB Orange Park, FLOrange Park 6'0" 200 4.45 3 stars - I have no clue who this even is. Apparently he transferred from UGA at some point and ended up at South Alabama and then Faulkner?
Brent Benedict OL Jacksonville, FLBolles 6'5" 278 5.07 4 stars - We really needed this guy to pan out. Was a great lineman out of Florida who had injury issues in college. Ended up transferring to Va Tech in 2011 after not seeing eye to eye with Georgia's strength and conditioning coach concerning rehab of his injury.
Michael Bennett WR Alpharetta, GAAlpharetta 6'3" 186 4.55 3 stars - Has so far vastly exceeded his recruiting rankings. Rated the #55 receiver in the country, and coming back this season, I'd say he has to be top 5-10 in the conference. Very dependable receiver who is not afraid to catch anything and can make some guys miss after the catch.
Brandon Burrows DE Marietta, GAWalton 6'3" 240 4.70 3 stars - Redshirted in 2010, missed 2011 to have chronic shoulder instability problems fixed with surgery. Quit the team in 2012 (lack of playing time) and then came back a week later. Hasn't really done anything since then.
Marc Deas DB Kissimmee, FLOsceola 6'0" 185 0.00 3 stars - Transferred in 2012, came back 11 days later. Hasn't done anything.
Jalen Fields DE Dalton, GADalton 6'5" 250 4.65 4 stars - Didn't qualify and ended up at Georgia Military College in 2010 and 2011. Went to ULL.
Kenarious Gates OL Greenville, GAGreenville 6'5" 300 4.90 3 stars - Has been a solid tackle for us. I'd say he exceeded his ranking, but was not dominant.
Jakar Hamilton DB Milledgeville, GAGeorgia Military College 6'2" 196 4.40 4 stars - JUCO transfer, did a few things when he came in. Found out after his junior season he had a stress fracture in his leg and had to sit out the next season. Ended up transferring to South Carolina State via a medical redshirt. Now with the Dallas Cowboys?
Kolton Houston OL Buford, GABuford 6'5" 270 0.00 3 stars - Kolton is the kid that was unable to play until this last year due to the dispute with the NCAA regarding some treatments he got in highschool to treat a shoulder injury. The treatments by his HS coach included some banned substances which remained in his body for years, despite hundreds of tests and many different types of treatment. Played last season, but looked like a kid that hadn't played in a few years. Has one more year and I think he could see some improvement this year.
Ken Malcome RB Decatur, GASouthwest Dekalb 6'0" 213 4.54 4 stars - Pretty good running back, but just got buried on the depth chart after only getting around 450 yards at UGA in 2 years. Transferred to Southern Illinois.
Hutson Mason QB Marietta, GALassiter 6'3" 190 4.89 3 stars - Got beaten out by Aaron Murray (same class as Zach Mettenberger). Almost transferred several times and said many times to the media how frustrated he was with not getting his chance. He's now a 5th year senior and this will be his season to prove what he's got. He's very smart, average arm but not as strong as Murray's, more capable of running the HUNH.
Dexter Morant DE Manning, SCManning 6'7" 240 4.90 4 stars - Never really played. Transferred out after 3 years due to "academic considerations."
Alec Ogletree DB Newnan, GANewnan 6'3" 210 4.55 4 stars - Lived up to his ranking and then some. Just a monster on the field, and is now starting for the Rams.
Alexander Ogletree RB Newnan, GANewnan 5'9" 205 4.55 3 stars - Was converted to fullback in college and was thought to have gotten the scholarship offer from UGA so they could get Alec. May have been the case, but "Zander" was a good fullback, but had problems staying out of trouble (like his brother). Ended up leaving the team for "medical" reasons in 2013. Could have been a rare case of Richt emulating Saban's roster management practices.
Lonnie Outlaw WR Rochelle, GAWilcox County 6'6" 200 0.00 2 stars - Did not qualify. Had an awesome name.
Derek Owens DB Jacksonville, FLAndrew Jackson 5'11" 180 4.45 3 stars - Transferred same time as Ken Malcome. Funny anecdote in this story, Richt mentions that Pollack came to his office and was frustrated thinking he couldn't cut it against college competition and was thinking of transferring. Obviously he stuck it out.
Garrison Smith DT Atlanta, GADouglass 6'4" 250 0.00 4 stars - He is what UGA fans call a Damn Good Dawg. Never caused any problems in college, solid player, team player, etc. Wasn't dominant, but he played hard and started a lot of games. Hopefully he gets a shot in the NFL. I'd say he met his rating.
T.J. Stripling DE Decatur, GASouthwest Dekalb 6'6" 215 4.64 4 stars - Has struggled with injuries his whole college career. Raw but had a good frame coming out of highschool. Injured in 5th game of his freshman year and had to have surgery so couldn't redshirt. Was offered a redshirt in 2011 and says he should have taken it, but said he was 100% but was actually probably less than 50%. Was underdeveloped in lower body due to his injury problems and that he should have taken that year off. Left as a senior this last year. Shame because he had all the tools but got off track early in his career.
Mike Thornton DT Stone Mountain, GAStephenson 6'2" 280 4.80 4 stars - He was okay, but was undersized to play DT in a 3-4. Was really 6'1" and under 300 lbs. Good kid, but just ill suited for DT. Ended up being replaced by Garrison Smith (above) for much of the season, and Smith isn't an ideal DT either.
bucknuticus
Member
You also missed Lonestar pointing out that it wouldn't apply in the last two minutes of the game.
Lifespan of QBs in Arizona just got halved.
Sure they are, buddy. And the ponies aren't dolls, they're action figures.
Is he really that bad?
Even if pass pro was an issue when he was at Bama, that tends to get minimized in a HUNH scheme.
He checks the major boxes for me. Lots of D1 experience, ties in Texas, and seems to be a good recruiter. Obviously a downgrade from Wickline, but who wouldn't be?
Even if pass pro was an issue when he was at Bama, that tends to get minimized in a HUNH scheme.
He checks the major boxes for me. Lots of D1 experience, ties in Texas, and seems to be a good recruiter. Obviously a downgrade from Wickline, but who wouldn't be?
fucking reading comprehension.
Ol' Bucketstep Bob will turn your o-line into a turnstile. He was our o-line coach for the infamous "honk if you sacked Brodie [Croyle]" game where Auburn sacked poor Brodie something like a dozen times.
fucking reading comprehension.
Ol' Bucketstep Bob will turn your o-line into a turnstile. He was our o-line coach for the infamous "honk if you sacked Brodie [Croyle]" game where Auburn sacked poor Brodie something like a dozen times.
OSU doesn't run a pro-style offense though. The spread and HUNH can mask a lot of o-line deficiencies.
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