Honestly, the first thing I think of was the episode with the Motorcyclists and the word "Fag", were people began to cite it as why they should be able to use the word, but they don't actually mean it directed towards gay people. It seems to be the most common defense when some tries to funny, but gets called out on it.
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Chappelle criticizes Clinton and LGBT activists, defends Trump's sexual assault
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Honestly, the first thing I think of was the episode with the Motorcyclists and the word "Fag", were people began to cite it as why they should be able to use the word, but they don't actually mean it directed towards gay people. It seems to be the most common defense when some tries to funny, but gets called out on it.
LordKasual
Banned
It isn't any different from racist jokes, and Chappelle makes his fair share of those. My only criteria for comedians who make jokes on sensitive material is that they do it fairly. I don't believe it renders him immune to criticism, that's silly. He's a comedian, they pretty much live off criticism.
But I also don't believe that living a magical world where nobody makes jokes about sensitive things is very helpful either. Dave Chappelle could never make a trans joke and transphobic people would still be just as vicious. But you don't have to be transphobic to laugh, either. Some people can take those jokes, some cant.
I personally think it can make you stronger to be able to laugh at such a thing -- if you can't face the criticism in the form of a completely impersonal comedy show, then how do you expect to face it in real life? There won't be an internet mob to defend every victim of a sensitive joke, nor will there ever be some free speech rule that prevents people from making them.
Trying to censor comedians is pointless to me.
Munkyspace
Member
GAF scares me sometimes.
Tranqueris
Banned
Hmmm...
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Who's censoring anyone? This is just about Dave needing to be much cooler and understanding about things out of his lane.
I'm concerned that all these comedians and celebrities we know and love, when faced with the conversation about transgender people (a conversation that admittedly didn't exist when they were in their prime, except perhaps as 'chicks with dicks' type jokes) will, as time goes on, show their age and close-mindedness and disappoint us all.
Gnome Scat
Member
Not like this, Dave.
The point I'm trying to make here is that in it's proper context, the jokes may not be "hateful leaning jokes" at all, once you are able to see things like Dave's mannerisms, his tone, the delivery, things that you can't get from text about the joke, or even the words being used that the article writer might be adding to the descriptions of the jokes that weren't there in the actual set, or slang the author isn't aware of, etc...
Example, out of context, this article writer could very easily write a story that sounds hateful about a bit from Dave's former television show, Black Bush, where Dave discusses gay people and Mars and how disgusted he is at the thought of two gay men or two gay women loving each other is. Now if you never saw this bit in full and didn't understand that he was pretending to be George Bush, it would be very easy to believe that Dave Chapelle hates the LGBT community.
IF we get a video of the jokes and the article writer is proven right and they were hateful, criticize away. But I think people saying cancel the SNL stand up should wait until they hear the jokes from Dave first.
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean I fully believe he said some shit about LGBT rights and activism, he's been on that lane for 25 years now.
The Trump stuff though is definitely a joke being misread.
Here's one thing that I thought was funnier than Chappelle's jokes... I went to Google to see if I could find out if a more reputable source than the one in the OP originally broke this story... Maybe one outside of the Trump family. The Observer.com article was posted 6 hours ago. The only article I could find on this that was posted earlier was 9 hours ago from...
Wait for it...
Breitbart.
Ha!
Additional reminder that people can, in fact, criticize said criticism and we can go round and round in this same circle every time a comedian crosses a line.
Wait for it...
Breitbart.
Ha!
Additional reminder that people can, in fact, criticize said criticism and we can go round and round in this same circle every time a comedian crosses a line.
CharminUltra
Member
Et tu, Dave?
I still think it's weird how these articles are written like comedians are making actual political statements and not as entertainment/comedy workshopping.
This is the reason why Chapelle and other comedians ask people not to take pictures/video etc when they are working on jokes. Some media guy/girl comes in and does a write-up as if Chapelle is talking like a pundit or politician.
"Rodney Dangerfield is very depressed lately. He doesn't get any respect. Get better soon Rod!"
I guess it sucks if you expected Dave Chapelle to be with you on everything or fit into a certain category. Some jokes just don't work broadly. Some don't work at all.
This is the reason why Chapelle and other comedians ask people not to take pictures/video etc when they are working on jokes. Some media guy/girl comes in and does a write-up as if Chapelle is talking like a pundit or politician.
"Rodney Dangerfield is very depressed lately. He doesn't get any respect. Get better soon Rod!"
I guess it sucks if you expected Dave Chapelle to be with you on everything or fit into a certain category. Some jokes just don't work broadly. Some don't work at all.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Oh shit, yeah, I totally remember. And I think people were defending it too as just a joke, and now he is talking about this shit lol
It's seriously embarrassing to see someone like him come in and talking about how annoyed he is by people seeking equal rights, as if there's a zero-sum game going on between black rights and trans rights.
His "jokes" about trans people haven't been funny any time he has done them.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Never meet your heroes.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
just don't have heroes, or realize your heroes have flaws like every other human being
both work imo
One should also never just read a transript of a comedian's set. If you must read something comedic, read their books.
That's very interesting.
tomato shrub
Member
Equal rights and emancipation inherit that every group on this planet ,,has the right" to be made fun of, including crass jokes. The latter doesn't automatically include hate speech and it doesn't even automatically have to be in bad taste. I wouldn't know how Chappelle's current show feels like though.
Almost feels like trolling.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Seriously, he was the most political person a lot of people I know watched as a kid who wasn't also a politician.
it's fine to disagree with criticism but plenty of people here and elsewhere try to completely invalidate its existence every time something like this happens, which is shitty
Seems like the best way too approach.
You don't box out of your league. A straight dude continually laying into the sexist and homophobic jokes for well over a decade is going to get called out on it. Best choice is to apologize, change up your routine, and move on. Not double down on the dumbassary and say it's a joke. You're going to say the joke, you're going have to take responsibility for it too rather than hiding behind, "It's a joke"
Frozenprince
Banned
That's the thing. You can love a guy and think he's hilarious and love his stand-up while also recognizing that outside of the area in which he is a master, he's ignorant and occasionally (unintentionally I'll give him that benefit of the doubt) hateful.
They are not exclusive things.
People also need to code his attitude towards the LGBT community in with him being black and from an era where black attitudes towards the spectrum were more ignorant and harmful than they are today, and they still need a ton of work today.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
nope
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Just now remembering Bill Burr, Chappelle, and a couple other guys fucking a trans prostitute in one episode of his show. The joke was that it was gross but they were horny. Burr went back again and then the whole crew joined in was the punchline.
(It was a different time, but it's frustrating to see Dave is still childish about this topic.)
(It was a different time, but it's frustrating to see Dave is still childish about this topic.)
and the thing is i could see him succeeding with that joke so long as it's clear the point of the joke is that he's aware his own attitude is regressive and hurtful
making fun of transphobia is fine, making fun of transpeople isn't
This is not an isolated incident, he has been pretty blunt on this front. I am very safe in my assumption that he is not a friend of the LGBT community and bigoted towards them. Comedians tend to be rough with jokes, yes I understand that but they also tend to skew some truth to what they believe. See Colbert and his persona. A person who cares about LGBT rights does not casually say "Woman with a dick". What would the context even be for a joke about LGBT rights needing to take a back seat and being in front of black rights? What kind of joke is that? My point for asking for examples is just like everything else people are going to show bias for celebs they like. Hell i'm still in denial about Michael Jackson because I don't want to stop listening to his songs. There reaches a point though where this is just stupid to keep shaking your head and going "nope, nope I demand proof I wouldn't otherwise demand for someone I dont like" when it keeps happening.
double jump
you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
First he took y'all phones next he gonna make y'all sign nda's on the ticket Master website. Lol.
Man I hope he films another special.
Man I hope he films another special.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This is the best joke so far out of this whole situation.The One and Done;223120667 said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Perhaps, but it doesn't really go in a circle unless the criticism of the criticism has some actual standing. A lot of it seems to be along the lines of "Dave Chappelle (noted political comedian) is not a politician."
I get what you're saying. People look to Dave Chapelle for politics and stuff. It sucks that he's still making these kinds of jokes. I guess we'll see what he does on SNL, if he continues on the same line. I wish I could see the actual set.
old manatee
Banned
People keep defending him because he is a comedian, but that's not even a joke. That is just someone clearly articulating how little of a shit they give about women and lgbtq people.
Intheflorsh
Banned
And who are you to judge what's funny? The god emperor of comedy? If jokes should be judged based only on their effectiveness at making other people laugh and I found that joke funny, then that joke was an objective success and you really have no business judging it based on its political message. You are the one being obtuse here if anything.
A Link to the Past
Banned
"It's a joke" is not a free pass to talk about a marginalized group in a hateful way. That's called an "excuse."
PatThePassive
Member
Sounds like hes addressing the racism black people still face and doesn't believe the strife the LGBT community is the same. its his opinion.
Hes a comedian and also a person allowed to have his own beliefs so I hope people are defending his right to an opinion and not the opinion itself.
Yeah if this is accurate it's time to go back home.
"Clearly I'm joking, loosen up"
I think it's ridiculous to be taking this second-hand telling of a comedy performance seriously when it removes so much of the context (and possibly details).
"Hateful" might be a bit of hyperbole, especially when you consider...
"Hateful" might be a bit of hyperbole, especially when you consider...
Sarcastic Poster
Member
It's unfortunate but go on most majority black forums or survey a random selection of black people across the US and you'll find they believe the exact same as him. These jokes resonate with that target audience.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Zero people in this thread have sought to force him to not have that opinion, and indeed no one has the ability to do that.
Glass Shark
Banned
put Dave Chappelle in the garbage where he belongs
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
But that makes no sense because it's not competition and black people like myself are also in the LGBT community.
Have you heard or seen the joke?
I'm not going to post a link to Breitbart, but they should get proper credit for actually breaking this "story." I'll just post the title of their article so we have a bit more context on what's got us all riled up:
Dave Chappelle Slams Clinton, Defends Most Gangsta Candidate Ever Donald Trump
Dave Chappelle Slams Clinton, Defends Most Gangsta Candidate Ever Donald Trump
Frozenprince
Banned
Him making fun of everything doesn't negate his attitude on LGBT people being toxic.
You can separate the two while recognizing that one is a problem.
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