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Charlottesville alt-right white nationalist torch rally

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Faustek

Member
FiggyCal said:
So much for the tolerant left
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Yn2Bgzk.jpg
 
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DontBeThatGuy

Member
Piggus said:
You can keep your Free Speech Lite. The First Amendment is clear, and chipping away at it sets a dangerous precedent.
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Our Constitution was ratified by white supremacists over 228 years ago, long before Nazi's (in name) existed.

The Constitution has also been Amended 27 times. We're about due for a couple more.
 
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excelsiorlef

Member
Kusagari said:
When I look at some of the stuff going on in Europe where people are getting jail and fines for tweets, I cannot support that.

I think anyone who has seen me post on here knows I'm as liberal as they come, but I cannot support anything that makes hate speech a crime or illegal because I refuse to go down the slippery slope.
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So you'd prefer to let Nazis march, assault and run over people instead...
 
fixedpoint

fixedpoint

Member
MagnaderAlpha said:
Should've had a special group of the US military that focuses specifically with home-grown white supremacist terror groups. Root 'em out and mow 'em down. Should've started as soon as the Civil War ended, send agents to infiltrate groups, then enforcer groups to round 'em up, take 'em into the forests and hang 'em all. So many hooded KKKs hangin' from trees that years after, these forests will be legendary to the nearby towns. Kids will be afraid of venturing into them, warning each other that those woods are haunted with the ghosts of hatred.

...
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Not quite what you're talking about, but Trump has specifically defunded groups and DHS programs dedicated to fighting white supremacist extremism. This is exactly what he wants - he *is* a white supremacist. As are some of the other retreads in his orbit like Bannon, Sessions and Gorka.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/23/playbook-dhs-extremism-life-after-hate-239889
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/01/politics/cve-funding-changes/index.html
http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/trumps-department-of-homeland-security-is-defunding-an-anti-nazi-program/
 
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antonz

Member
The United States of America actively banned Nazi Gatherings, Speech and Organizations in the late 30s and through WWII. There is no reason why they cannot be banned today. They call for the same things today that they called for during WWII.

The reality is the Nazi etc. have played the system to build itself defenses in society.
 
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Shoeless

Member
Kinsei said:
No one knows the exact cause yet. All we know is that it's somehow tied to the rally.
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I'm also a bit confused by this news item. If it was just pilot error, or something to that effect, then I don't know how it's connected. If someone was actually taking shots at the chopper, that would be something else entirely, though.
 
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III-V

Member
fixedpoint said:
Not quite what you're talking about, but Trump has specifically defunded groups and DHS programs dedicated to fighting white supremacist extremism. This is exactly what he wants - he *is* a white supremacist. As are some of the other retreads in his orbit like Bannon, Sessions and Gorka.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/23/playbook-dhs-extremism-life-after-hate-239889
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/01/politics/cve-funding-changes/index.html
http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/trumps-department-of-homeland-security-is-defunding-an-anti-nazi-program/
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that headline

‘Unite the Right’ Rally-Goer Tells Fox News ‘The F-cking Jew Lovers Are Gassing Us!’
 
T

TyrantGuardian

Member
Aaronrules380 said:
The moment Nazis start killing or hurting people is the moment this stops being protected. The fact that police stood idly by even as violence came to a head is indicative of other, deeper problems with the country imo
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You're right about that. But you must also realize that the constitution itself is what has allowed the US to reach this point unrestricted. It's pretty garbage, if y'all US citizens haven't yet noticed.
 
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Primethius

Banned
Do some posters realize there are already LIMITATIONS on free speech in the US?

Like, some posts read like it's this untouched beacon of freedom.
 
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NHarmonic.

Member
Kusagari said:
This most certainly should have been shut down from the get go. The intent was clear when they're out there in full on riot gear.

But there have been numerous peaceful Nazi and KKK rallies in the past and they should be allowed.
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What the fuck is that last sentence, please go away with that shit.

"Peaceful Nazi rally, peaceful KKK rally". I think this is top 3 on the most stupid shit i've ever read. If you think parading behind those ideals can be close to anything resembling peace then i don't know in which dimension you're living.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
Aaronrules380 said:
I personally do think revising the first amendment for that is dangerous though. It can be done, but the damage potential if it's abused is also very high. Just because it can be done right doesn't mean it always will be
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I'm not sure what the answer is then. It's not really a mystery what the goals are of these groups. They want to harm minorities and their dreams are to wipe them out completely. What's the line in the sand where we say "OK, maybe we let this movement go too far"?
 
I

III-V

Member
antonz said:
The United States of America actively banned Nazi Gatherings, Speech and Organizations in the late 30s and through WWII. There is no reason why they cannot be banned today. They call for the same things today that they called for during WWII.

The reality is the Nazi etc. have played the system to build itself defenses in society.
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Not sure if these free speech folks remember this, but for a time, shooting a Nazi was held in high regard in this country.

NHarmonic. said:
What the fuck is that last sentence, please go away with that shit.

"Peaceful Nazi rally, peaceful KKK rally". I think this is top 3 on the most stupid shit i've ever read. If you think parading behind those ideals can be close to anything resembling peace then i don't know in which dimension you're living.
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Plenty peaceful before the lynching.
 
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Aaronrules380

Member
TyrantGuardian said:
You're right about that. But you must also realize that the constitution itself is what has allowed the US to reach this point unrestricted. It's pretty garbage, if y'all US citizens haven't yet noticed.
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I think a lot of things have caused it to reach that point and acting like amending the constitution would automatically fix the problem is incredibly naive.
 
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King Tubby

Member
TyrantGuardian said:
You can spin this however you want mate, we both know your argument is pathetic. If you don't see the fundamental difference between BLM and calls for genocide I honestly don't know what to tell you.
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The argument isn't that BLM and Nazis are in any way equivalent, only that the government would use their power to silence groups like BLM if they were able. Hell, they already do. It's not as simple as some people make it out to be. You already have large, ignorant swathes of the public who think BLM are a terrorist organization.
 
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Aurongel

Member
The Kree said:
You know what's actually scary and not hypothetical? The American president refused to condemn today's domestic terrorist attack as committed by a white supremacist during a counter protest of a white supremacist rally while placing equal blame for the incident on the opponents of white supremacy.

Keep on with the abstractions about what might happen while state sanctioned horrible shit actually is already happening. I like knowing who to ignore.
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I think you need to take it down a notch, you're making really hysterical assumptions based on a few things I've said that you still have yet to provide a retort to.
 
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Aaronrules380

Member
King Tubby said:
The argument isn't that BLM and Nazis are in any way equivalent, only that the government would use their power to silence groups like BLM if they were able. Hell, they already do. It's not as simple as some people make it out to be. You already have large, ignorant swathes of the public who think BLM are a terrorist organization.
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exactly. Whether two groups are actually equivalent is irrelevant, what's relevant is whether the law as written could be spun in such a way as to act as if they are
 
P

Primethius

Banned
If the US just designated Neo-Nazis as a terrorist organization like they should, the free speech limitations as they exist would already prohibit these acts and rallies.

But something something slippery slope. What a bullshit nonsensical argument.
 
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KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
How ridiculous is the argument about "we must stick to our principles no matter how poorly they work in practice because those principles will defend us when the wrong people raise to power" in a world where Trump is POTUS and with everything that is happening these days in Charlottesville.

This is the same with that argument about the checks and balances.
 
R

RMI

Banned
King Tubby said:
The argument isn't that BLM and Nazis are in any way equivalent, only that the government would use their power to silence groups like BLM if they were able. Hell, they already do. It's not as simple as some people make it out to be. You already have large, ignorant swathes of the public who think BLM are a terrorist organization.
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So the government might do a thing they're already doing if we expect them to do a thing they ought to do? Not really a great argument.
 
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sechsterangriff

Member
I sometimes go to 4chan for /m/ and decided to take a look at /pol/ for the first time ever today.
I don't know what I was expecting but what a fucking cesspit.
 
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R10Neymarfan

Member
djplaeskool said:
Everyone has the right to peaceably assemble.
The ACLU is agnostic in defending basic rights like this.
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Not when they run over people. Terrorist groups shouldn't be given a platform in any way. Thus just proves as such. Muh freeze peach doesn't work not for these deplorable. And Clinton was right in calling them that. Everyone that has enabled and encouraged them should be called out
 
H

Hierophant

Banned
KingSnake said:
How ridiculous is the argument about "we must stick to our principles no matter how poorly they work in practice because those principles will defend us when the wrong people raise to power" in a world where Trump is POTUS and with everything that is happening these days in Charlottesville.

This is the same with that argument about the checks and balances.
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YEAH FUCKING THE EXACT REASON THEY ALWAYS GAVE WAS WE HAVE TO PREVENT THEM FROM RISING TO POWER BY ACTING CIVIL AND REASONABLE

LIKE FUCKING EVERYTHING BAD THAT COULD HAPPEN DID HAPPEN

There is no more cause for civility or rationality, the enemy hates you and wants to kill you.
 
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TyrantGuardian

Member
Aaronrules380 said:
I think a lot of things have caused it to reach that point and acting like amending the constitution would automatically fix the problem is incredibly naive.
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No one is saying it would. We're saying is the basic fucking first step that every civilized country enacts. The US isn't a special snowflake where it wouldn't work, you're just several decades behind in enacting proper hate speech laws.

King Tubby said:
The argument isn't that BLM and Nazis are in any way equivalent, only that the government would use their power to silence groups like BLM if they were able. Hell, they already do. It's not as simple as some people make it out to be. You already have large, ignorant swathes of the public who think BLM are a terrorist organization.
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BLM wouldn't fall under hate speech in any country that has hate speech laws. What are you even talking about? Its incredibly simple.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
NHarmonic. said:
What the fuck is that last sentence, please go away with that shit.

"Peaceful Nazi rally, peaceful KKK rally". I think this is top 3 on the most stupid shit i've ever read. If you think parading behind those ideals can be close to anything resembling peace then i don't know in which dimension you're living.
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This is what law enforcement is supposed to be there for.
Monitor the situation, and break it up if it gets out of hand. (And seeing some videos on Twitter, police definitely let shit rock that should've been ceased immediately)
We've had like, 5 or 6 of these KKK-ish gatherings in Georgia over the past decade, and either the police end up telling people to go home (usually in the face of counter-protest), or it just ends up as a BBQ with your really racist relatives where people sell poorly crafted confederate merchandise and that might get a short blurb on the local news.
It's a prickly conversation that we're going to have to have, but I think with our current administration, will be difficult to finish.
 
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Aaronrules380

Member
Primethius said:
If the US just designated Neo-Nazis as a terrorist organization like they should, the free speech limitations as they exist would already prohibit these acts and rallies.

But something something slippery slope. What a bullshit nonsensical argument.
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Designating neo nazis specifically as a terrorist organization is essentially useless because then they'd just find a way to rebrand under a different name and banner. Hate speech laws can't be effective unless they're vague enough to apply to a broad range of situations rather than just specific groups
 
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