Psychotext
Member
Thread is depressing the shit out of me, but thanks for all your hard work Deck'ard.
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Child Abuse Scandal in UK grows to implicate MPs, celebs - Update Posts #900/#1100
- Thread starter Clay Davis
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It's depressing me as well, but ignorance really isn't bliss here unfortunately.
I've also noticed a curious psychological thing going on where the bigger the story has got, the less some people want to know. When in theory the angrier they should be getting. When it was isolated and involved a celebrity in Savile it was much easier to comprehend and be outraged, mock or talk about it. Now? Not so much.
I'm putting it to the test on Facebook by sharing the link to the latest summary, let's see how far it spreads.
I'm putting it to the test on Facebook by sharing the link to the latest summary, let's see how far it spreads.
More Fun To Compute
Member
The old, "it will all end it tears," scenario.
Telegraph now seem to be playing up a feud between McAlpine and Patten. Sort of interesting with how apparently everyone in the press and comments after "the incident" hated Patten's guts.
Telegraph now seem to be playing up a feud between McAlpine and Patten. Sort of interesting with how apparently everyone in the press and comments after "the incident" hated Patten's guts.
Amazing how this Lord McAlpine / BBC story is just running and running.
It's beginning to make it's way round Facebook, although one person said immediately that it was hard to get their head round and how deep it goes. It made them feel sick though and they have shared it, urging people to read it and make up their own minds.
The direct link to the summary for anyone who wants to do the same:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44387660&postcount=923
The Internet is an amazing source of information, but if it is not brought together the bigger story can be hidden.
The direct link to the summary for anyone who wants to do the same:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44387660&postcount=923
The Internet is an amazing source of information, but if it is not brought together the bigger story can be hidden.
http://www.channel4.com/news/can-lord-mcalpines-twitter-pursuit-succeed
Personally I'd rather see the £185,000 of public money go to the victims instead. Lord McAlpine has enough money already, enough to spend on suing all these people for a start.
And again, why was no action taken when the same claims and worse were made in 1994?
Can Lord McAlpine's Twitter pursuit succeed?
As Sally Bercow is named as one of those expected to be the first to receive legal letters for allegedly defaming Lord McAlpine, Channel 4 News examines the chances for legal success over "Twibel".
Mrs Bercow (pictured, left) took to Twitter to say she would be seeking legal advice after it was reported that she would be among the first on a "very long list" of tweeters expected to receive a notice of legal action.
Lord McAlpine's legal team reached a settlement of £185,000 with the former Conservative politician was wrongly linked to a child sex abuse scandal as a result of a Newsnight investigation.
Solicitor Andrew Reid, who is representing Lord McAlpine, said the former Tory party treasurer would be sending a "letter before action" to the list of tweeters who mentioned his client on the micro-blogging website.
The action is being taken against those who allegedly tweeted his name in relation to the Newsnight programme.
Mr Reid said: "They will receive a letter before action, which I think is some 13 or 14 pages, and they will have 48 hours to respond, in the same way that we have dealt with the BBC, because the sooner this is dealt with the better for all parties," he said.
"It is a very long list. There are other broadcasters on it. We will be getting to them, but hopefully they will come to us, because it makes sense to do so. This is so vile, so disgusting, that it's easier to come and just get it over with. We want it over with as well."
The list includes Mrs Bercow as well as journalist George Monbiot, Mr Reid said. Also being pursued will be ITV's This Morning programme, Mr Reid said, after Phillip Schofield handed Prime Minister David Cameron a list of Conservative politicians that he had found on the internet. Ofcom said it would investigate the programme over the incident.
Mrs Bercow responded to to the news in two tweets on Twitter on Thursday afternoon:
Sally Bercow
✔
@SallyBercow
Thanks for phone calls/texts/tweets. I guess I'd better get some legal advice then. Still maintain was not a libellous tweet - just foolish
15 Nov 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
Sally Bercow
✔
@SallyBercow
Anyway, hey ho. Best not comment any more til seen a lawyer. Back to excitement of #pcc elections
15 Nov 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
Mr Monbiot has also used Twitter to emphasise his apology to the Conservative peer:
GeorgeMonbiot@GeorgeMonbiot
It was stupid of me to have mntnd Lord #McAlpine on Twitter. Tho I made no allegations, I apologise w/o reserve to him for doing so.
9 Nov 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
'Twibel'
Since 2011 Twitter and legal action have become entwined, with the first high profile court case being taken against singer Courtney Love. Ms Love paid £264,000 to settle the libel case over tweets she sent that accused a fashion designer of theft.
Libel cases on Twitter can be highly dependent on what information Twitter chooses to release. Twitter's policy on releasing private ionformation is that it requires "a subpoena, court order, or other valid legal process to disclose information about our users".
For requests for user information from law enforcement agencies outside the US, requests have to be issued via a US court by way of a mutual legal assistance treaty.
Despite the processes involved, Twitter has released private information in UK cases. In May 2011 Twitter released the details of an anonymous Twitter user to South Tyneside council. The council had gone through the Californian courts to force Twitter to release the details against a man accused of defamation.
However, this is only relevant when the Twitter user being pursued is anonymous. In cases of celebrities it is clearly easier to locate them.
Personally I'd rather see the £185,000 of public money go to the victims instead. Lord McAlpine has enough money already, enough to spend on suing all these people for a start.
And again, why was no action taken when the same claims and worse were made in 1994?
I think you should read post #923.
Clay Davis
Member
thank you for the summaries and thanks to iapetus for updating the thread title.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Tangentially related, but:
It seems Dacre is launching his "fightback" ahead of Leveson criticising him and the Mail... http://www.*****************/home/index.html
Ha! I'd forgotten the Mail is banned
It's splashed all over the front page of their website anyway, and by the sounds of it it's less a "hard-hitting investigation" and more "whatever shoddy muck and slurs we can dig up to muddy the waters"...
It seems Dacre is launching his "fightback" ahead of Leveson criticising him and the Mail... http://www.*****************/home/index.html
Ha! I'd forgotten the Mail is banned
It's splashed all over the front page of their website anyway, and by the sounds of it it's less a "hard-hitting investigation" and more "whatever shoddy muck and slurs we can dig up to muddy the waters"...I typically lurk on GAF, and don't comment on threads often. I've been reading this from the start, and still don't really know why I am commenting because I am literally rendered speechless.
I want to thank DECK'ARD for collating this information. I have shared this thread and his wonderful summary with some uninformed, but I feel like as much as possible needs to be gathered and hosted by someone on a site with a proper address, links to all sources and all of that kind of stuff like some terrible Wiki article. Then it needs to be printed, bound and sent... I don't know. Bombard councils, the media, official instituations what?
What can we do? Apart from simply spreading the information contained in this thread as far as possible, I want to demand something from someone, I want to try and make as big a difference as I can. I've been reading this thread and shaking my head, but it isn't enough and I feel helpless.
Rotten.
I want to thank DECK'ARD for collating this information. I have shared this thread and his wonderful summary with some uninformed, but I feel like as much as possible needs to be gathered and hosted by someone on a site with a proper address, links to all sources and all of that kind of stuff like some terrible Wiki article. Then it needs to be printed, bound and sent... I don't know. Bombard councils, the media, official instituations what?
What can we do? Apart from simply spreading the information contained in this thread as far as possible, I want to demand something from someone, I want to try and make as big a difference as I can. I've been reading this thread and shaking my head, but it isn't enough and I feel helpless.
Rotten.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Tangentially related, but:
It seems Dacre is launching his "fightback" ahead of Leveson criticising him and the Mail... http://www.*****************/home/index.html
Ha! I'd forgotten the Mail is banned
Fucking hell, the website looks like Drudge Report now
he's got another thing coming if he thinks people will trust him over the leveson inquiry... hope there's some good criticism of the mail
Indy, Grauniad, C4 etc -- DO NOT LET GO OF THIS STORY
Hmmm. Well, it'll be interesting to see if any of the people he's going after will fight in court and bring some of this out. McAlpine is running a big risk if an action failed because someone did fight it on the basis of these things...afterall, libel is only libel if it is untrue.
Cosmonaut X
Member
I believe there will be. Leveson has been sending out notice letters (there is a specific term, but it escapes me) giving the subjects notice of what he will be covering in his report. I'd say this is a fairly transparent response to whatever Dacre has been advised in that letter.
I doubt it. Didn't it allegedly turn out to be a cousin of his, who died in 1991? Or another relative who fled to Thailand a few years ago.
People are finally beginning to pay attention on Facebook and ask questions with that summary.
Thanks for everyone who is taking the trouble to keep up with all this, no matter how bewildering or depressing it is turning out to be. And those who have shared the summary as well.
The difference between now and 1994 when all these allegations were first made and victims came forward is the Internet. The most powerful tool there is, more powerful than Governments and the media.
And it's time for the Internet to show just how powerful it is merely by getting the information people need out there. Which is what it's designed to do.
Thanks for everyone who is taking the trouble to keep up with all this, no matter how bewildering or depressing it is turning out to be. And those who have shared the summary as well.
The difference between now and 1994 when all these allegations were first made and victims came forward is the Internet. The most powerful tool there is, more powerful than Governments and the media.
And it's time for the Internet to show just how powerful it is merely by getting the information people need out there. Which is what it's designed to do.
Devolution
Member
So these guys were allowed to ruin countless lives and abuse children for decades and it was all covered up by the BBC?
Apparently. Too many powerful people from too many f(r)actions involved = one big coverup.
Covered up by everyone, for decades, the BBC at the moment being served up on a plate to shift the focus of the media.
And by extension, the public.
Devolution
Member
By everyone what do you mean? People outside the BBC who could have blown the lid off and didn't?
Cosmonaut X
Member
Which "guys"? If you mean Savile and (possibly) Dave Lee Travis, then the BBC has to share some blame for its inability or unwillingness to protect the people who worked there, or appeared on their programmes, but - in the case of Savile at least - there are many institutions and individuals who have questions to answer about their inaction. It should also not go without mentioning that Savile appears to have been careful about making powerful friends and ingratiating himself with the "right" people - enough to scare people off and give him protection and cover, even if only through association.
captainnapalm
Member
Deck'ard, have you considered fleshing out your summary and writing an article and submitting it to some editors? It seems you're doing a fantastic job on this thread that could actually be of some wider journalistic value.
Devolution
Member
I wanted to create a summary of facts from news articles from proper sources to let people draw their own conclusion.
I'm hoping there's at least someone out there in the media or the House Of Commons who will then take this and run with it. If there isn't we then think of other ways.
First thing to do though is get it out to people we know, until the media starts doing a better job of it.
captainnapalm
Member
This thread has certainly been more informative than just about any other source on the web I can find. What you're doing, trying to tie it all together and create an overarching picture, isn't really being done anywhere in the mainstream media.
At the last count I've apparently made 50 million people happy with Worms.
I'd now like to use a platform to see justice done, and I will do so in any way I can. I was proud of my country over the summer, very proud. I want to be again.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Damn that update. Hadn't really been following too much other than knowing Savile had been covered up by a bunch of people, which in itself was crazy enough could happen, but that update is pretty mind blowing, how the fuck could that happen for so long. :/
and yeah, great job with the posts, haven't seen anything like that in the medias anywhere.
and yeah, great job with the posts, haven't seen anything like that in the medias anywhere.
Holy shit at that update.
I don't want to disparage the suffering all the pedo victims have gone through, but I'd almost say that this goes even beyond this scandal. This seems to be a rare view of how various powerful actors collude, and basically do whatever they please. If they do so with regard to raping children they will do so anywhere. Thus, stepping up to them here, and dragging them into the limelight also sends a sign with regard to general elite behaviour.
I don't want to disparage the suffering all the pedo victims have gone through, but I'd almost say that this goes even beyond this scandal. This seems to be a rare view of how various powerful actors collude, and basically do whatever they please. If they do so with regard to raping children they will do so anywhere. Thus, stepping up to them here, and dragging them into the limelight also sends a sign with regard to general elite behaviour.
Oh man, now you're too excellent.
I know it's horrifying to contemplate but this 'type of thing' is probably going on in multiple countries, establishments, principalities etc. across the world, especially ones with greater gulfs between the rich and poor. And there's almost piss-all we can do except getting the information out as carefully as possible.
Have you published that summary anywhere else? Reddit, Facebook, etc..
It might be worth setting up a blog if you are going to continue to update these summaries so they get more exposure.
The scale of the culture of silence is astounding. When it is put together in that format it drives the whole thing home hard.
Wait, you made Worms?
I've started it on Facebook, I'm not on the others.
Anyone who is, feel free to do so.
I second this. Your summary of events needs to be on a better platform than a forum post at this point. I know it is stupid, but linking a website across social media will appear more credible to non-forum posters. Also, the link people share wont be out of date the next time you have to add additional information to the summary.
captainnapalm
Member
Yes, I strongly suspect this isn't isolated to the UK.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Some guy said:
I'd think he'd have to make it stick in a US court given NeoGAF isn't based in the UK, right?
I love the way he's gone from playing victim to now actively attacking people who may have even mentioned his name on Twitter, backed by his considerable finances. He doesn't appear to give a shit that there are people who ARE guilty of this stuff... if they hadn't been involved and done the deeds in the first place, there wouldn't have been any possibility of his name being dragged through the mud.
Psychotext
Member
/has a new hero
Dont know if these are relevant (or old), saw it in link from a link in a random Twitter post.
McAlpine's advice on dealing with the media? Spread false defeat to gain public sympathy; or false accusation and then arrange for it to be exposed as such - so the accuser will forever be treated with suspicion.
Poor Messham, he never stood a chance.
Also, there is this:
Lord McAlpine formerly had a private collection of erotic images that included photographs of young girls in suggestive poses?
WOW.
Maybe we should do that with these current institutions.
Should I replace McAlpine with Mr X for the sake of GAF?
McAlpine's advice on dealing with the media? Spread false defeat to gain public sympathy; or false accusation and then arrange for it to be exposed as such - so the accuser will forever be treated with suspicion.
Poor Messham, he never stood a chance.
Also, there is this:
Lord McAlpine formerly had a private collection of erotic images that included photographs of young girls in suggestive poses?
WOW.
Maybe we should do that with these current institutions.
Should I replace McAlpine with Mr X for the sake of GAF?
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