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[teeny]

Yet it's been staring them right in the face.

A celebrity abusing children while raising money for charity, on television, in the papers, at the Palace, at Stoke Mandeville hospital, at Broadmoor, at care homes, anywhere he damn well wanted. For 40 years. Abusing HUNDREDS of children.

People knew, it was just us and his victims that didn't until it was too late. You can't get away with it for that long without protection from the top down. And then ask WHY he had that protection. All the public need to do is open their eyes, or be forced to open them.

Unfortunately the media seem to be doing their best to keep the public eye well and truly closed. Between McAlpine diverting attention and effectively smearing the victims, the right wing tabloids tripping over themselves to attack e BBC and the BBC doing their very best to appear completely incompetent, the public doesn't have much of a chance. Hell, even Twitter isn't sacred anymore. Everyone else is just keeping stum, which is fucking disgraceful. I hope that I am wrong, but I am genuinly worried that your hard work as well as others will be in vain, the whole thing will be swept under the carpet and come out all over again in another 20 years or so.

I wish there was a proper platform for this stuff that could be used without the threat of libel at every corner.

 

[leadbelly]

Yep, and that's why it gets me so angry and why this country will be forever broken until we are brave enough to fix it.

This is to do with money, power, and the abuse of it in all senses. Targeting the most vulnerable, and protected by silence.

Yeah. They start to believe that they truly are more important than everyone else. That the law doesn't apply to them. It is just for the 'profane' that need to be controlled.

I have gotten similar responses when I have shown people and brought it up. Most people simply refuse to believe that a scandal and coverup of this magnitude is even possible.

People are still under the illusion that those in charge are actually decent people. That they have our best interests at heart. The truth is some of these people have their own agenda. Their own ideas of how the world should work. They don't care what the masses think, they're just ignorant and stupid, and need to be told what is best for them.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Unfortunately the media seem to be doing their best to keep the public eye well and truly closed. Between McAlpine diverting attention and effectively smearing the victims, the right wing tabloids tripping over themselves to attack e BBC and the BBC doing their very best to appear completely incompetent, the public doesn't have much of a chance. Hell, even Twitter isn't sacred anymore. Everyone else is just keeping stum, which is fucking disgraceful. I hope that I am wrong, but I am genuinly worried that your hard work as well as others will be in vain, the whole thing will be swept under the carpet and come out all over again in another 20 years or so.

I wish there was a proper platform for this stuff that could be used without the threat of libel at every corner.

No reply from Channel 4 news yet.

They broke all the North Wales scandal again, they better not give up now.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I've emailed it to Tom Watson.

Here is the email if anyone wants to send something similar to anyone they think would want to know and be able to draw attention to it all:

Hi Tom,

Firstly congratulations on reopening questions about the North Wales child abuse scandal and everything else. You are to be commended and one of the few who is trying to get an overall picture of how this was allowed to happen and continue in plain sight, unchecked for decades. It didn't just involve Savile, and couldn't have.

I am struggling to understand how the wider media isn't presenting a full picture of the scale of the abuse and how it links together, so I compiled this summary of it all from the news articles that have come out since the Savile story broke and everything that was already out there.

A comprehensive summary of the child abuse that was happening throughout the country and how it links to Savile. Which a full overarching public inquiry would be allowed to look at and what we are currently being denied.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44387660&postcount=923

Short link:

http://bit.ly/U4rYbx

I hope you find it useful, as the public cannot get outraged until they know what to get outraged about.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[leadbelly]

Did anyone watch the episode of 'Have I Got News For You' where they talked about Jimmy Savile? It was so strange because they went on for like 6 minutes about it and it was pretty much totally serious. It changed the whole mood of the show. There was supposedly a hoax transcript that circulated on the internet of an earlier episode with Jimmy Savile on. Paul Merton and Ian Hislop were claimed to have ripped into Jimmy Savile at the time claiming he was a paedophile. This was untrue apparently and never happened on the episode.

They were staunchly defending the BBC though. They also attacked the Daily Mail. Looking back on it, Ian Hislop talked a lot about how the press didn't know anything about it, they just heard 'rumours' that Jimmy Savile might be a paedophile. Clearly we know now that Ian Hislop probably knew a lot more than simply Jimmy Savile being a paedophile. That scallywag article for instance shows that more was known about it at the time by the press, and interestingly, Private Eye was also mentioned in that article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIx_b41wzbs

 

[DECK'ARD]

Did anyone watch the episode of 'Have I Got News For You' where they talked about Jimmy Savile? It was so strange because they went on for like 6 minutes about it and it was pretty much totally serious. It changed the whole mood of the show. There was supposedly a hoax transcript that circulated on the internet of an earlier episode with Jimmy Savile on. Paul Merton and Ian Hislop were claimed to have ripped into Jimmy Savile at the time claiming he was a peadophile. This was untrue apparently and never happened on the episode.

They were staunchly defending the BBC though. They also attacked the Daily Mail. Looking back on it, Ian Hislop talked a lot about how the press didn't know anything about it, they just heard 'rumours' that Jimmy Savile might be a peadophile. Clearly we know now that Ian Hislop probably knew a lot more than simply Jimmy Savile being a peadophile. That scallywag article for instance shows that more was known about it at the time by the press, and interestingly, Private Eye was also mentioned in that article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIx_b41wzbs

A lot will be interesting to look back in hindsight, that's the next step.

We have a comprehensive summary of what we are looking for now, and like the case of Hollie Greig posted above a lot more will come to light now whether the media highlights it or not.

 

[timetokill]

Thanks again for the updates, DECK. Truly tragic stuff.

The scale of this all almost makes it seem like everyone in Britain is either a pedophile or knows one, or knows the victim of one. I know that's not the case but the scale of this is truly staggering.

 

[Novid]

Thanks again for the updates, DECK. Truly tragic stuff.

The scale of this all almost makes it seem like everyone in Britain is either a pedophile or knows one, or knows the victim of one. I know that's not the case but the scale of this is truly staggering.

If only i can find that link to the edict the MP's did in 2010 dealing with manga and the like... it will just highight the whole hypcrocy they been playing. and no not every one there is connected to this. there good blokes out there. its just this savilie dude irks me as the type to...ruin lives and promotions.

 

[Oxx]

Thanks again for the updates, DECK. Truly tragic stuff.

The scale of this all almost makes it seem like everyone in Britain is either a pedophile or knows one, or knows the victim of one. I know that's not the case but the scale of this is truly staggering.

Yeah, knowing someone who was abused as a child has made these events doubly distressing. And infuriating.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Just read all this. When its all collated together here and you're not just picking bits and pieces from various stories, its even worse. I got tears in my eyes reading it and I'm not sure exactly why; whether its out of sadness or anger. But its fucking horrifying and I can't believe that its happening.

... my tag is the absolute worst to have here

I've found it a combination of thoroughly mind blowing, depressing and unbelievable anger since I started trying to collect all the pieces together. Each day would just result in so much more, and so much worse. Summarising it just hammered home the scale of it and how it all tied up in a terrifying way.

I also had tears in my eyes today earlier actually, after my Facebook test to see how people would react to the summary seemed to be failing in 90% of the cases I was showing it to. Some seeming to be wilfully ignorant to it without realising, some I managed to get through to eventually.

The title change to the thread and the comments from GAF that followed got rid of those tears and gave me some hope again that as long as we keep pushing to get the information out there to the people who need it most - the public - that things can be changed and justice can finally be done. So thank you all.

The thought of the tears of so many victims over so many years makes me thoroughly sick, and I just cannot understand how anyone could be complicit in wanting them silenced in any way. Humanity HAS to be better than that, WE have to be better than that.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Fife:

Child abuse charity sees surge of referrals in wake of Savile scandal

Referrals to a Fife child abuse charity have rocketed by 50% in the wake of the Jimmy Savile scandal. Staff at Dunfermline-based Safe Space have been swamped by calls following the emergence of the sex abuse allegations against the former DJ and presenter.

To meet the extra demand, the charity has launched an appeal to raise £10,000, with the backing of author Iain Banks.

The dramatic rise reflects the national picture, with children's charity NSPCC reporting contacts made about sexual abuse had trebled in the last month, rising to 550.

Safe Space counselling coordinator Karen Shergold said there had been two new child referrals and fresh seven adult cases in the past few weeks.

She added: ''It is difficult to say exactly what degree relates to the Jimmy Savile case but we have had an unusually high level of calls from clients over the past few weeks.

''That is unusual for this time of year because it is normally January or February before we see a rise. Coverage in the media can often be the thing that triggers referrals and in the case of Jimmy Savile it is everywhere at the moment.''

Mrs Shergold confirmed that none of the children or adults who have come forward were levelling any abuse allegations directly at Savile.

The director of the NSPCC's helpline, Peter Watt, revealed the charity had taken 236 calls about Savile, an average of five calls a day, since claims began to surface.

He said: ''It's crucial that people continue to come forward, whether they have information about Savile or anyone else. Our prime focus has to be on protecting children, particularly those unable to speak out themselves, and bringing offenders to justice.

''Sometimes people wait months or years before reporting abuse but we would urge them to act quickly so they can get help as soon as possible. While the whole Savile episode has been distressing it has also led to more victims of abuse seeking support, which is positive.''

Danielle McLeod, Safe Space trustee, said it had been a ''bittersweet'' few weeks for the charity.

''The nature of the work we do means that raising public awareness and fundraising off the back of that can be really difficult,'' she said.

''So when high-profile news like the current Jimmy Savile case hits the public eye, we are desperately sad to learn of more people who have been impacted and yet we know it is cases like these that encourage people to come forward, tell their stories and seek assistance in discovering a positive future.''

The Safe Space Write-athon campaign asks people to write a book for sponsorship.

Mr Banks will be a member of the judging panel alongside literary editor and CEO of Winskill Editorial Gale Winskill and literary agent Diane Banks.

Mr Banks said: ''It's impossible to overestimate the importance of the work that Safe Space does and the difference that it can make to lives of survivors it helps.''

For more information visit safespacewrite-athon.co.uk.

From that bit of the country we get this from 2009:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8035680.stm

Eight members of a paedophile network have been found guilty of a catalogue of charges relating to child abuse and indecent images of children.

Neil Strachan, 41, was found guilty of the attempted rape of an 18-month-old boy and James Rennie, 38, guilty of sexually assaulting a three-month-old. The Edinburgh men, and three others, were also found guilty of conspiring to get access to children to abuse them. All eight men will be sentenced at a later date.

Colin Slaven, 23, also from Edinburgh, Neil Campbell, 46, John Milligan, 40, and John Murphy, 44 - all from Glasgow - Ross Webber, 27, from North Berwick in East Lothian, and Craig Boath, 24, from Dundee, were convicted of various charges.

All of those involved in the investigation and prosecution of the case have been profoundly affected by it Two of the men, Strachan - who was jailed for three years in 1997 for abusing a boy - and Rennie, the chief executive of advice centre LGBT Youth Scotland, were convicted of sex attacks on children.

Strachan and Rennie were also found guilty of conspiring to abuse youngsters, as were Webber, Boath and Milligan.
Campbell was also accused of conspiracy, but he was cleared on that charge after the jury found the case against him not proven.
All eight accused in the 10-week trial were convicted of possessing and making indecent images and seven of them were found to have distributed images. A charge of distribution against Slaven was withdrawn by the Crown.

The men were traced through their explicit internet chats about sexual fantasies involving children after the discovery of an indecent image of an 11-year-old boy on a work computer. Nearly 125,000 indecent images were seized during Operation Algebra, which uncovered what is believed to be Scotland's biggest paedophile network.

It has also emerged that Strachan was diagnosed HIV positive in June 2007. In statements issued on behalf of the families of the abused children, the mother of the child referred to in court as Child JL said: "The anguish I feel towards Mr Strachan is indescribable. "I will never be able to forgive him for the sick acts that he committed against my son. "I feel that no matter what punishment given to Mr Strachan it will never be able to compensate for the hurt, devastation and great deal of stress brought to me and my family. "To subsequently learn that he abused our son, and invited others to do the same, has been devastating".

The family of Child F said: "For a year and four months now we have had to live with the impact and haunting consequences this has had on our lives. "For over 15 years James Rennie seemed the closest of family friends, and it is hard to put into words the extent of the betrayal he has exacted upon us, as many of the details may identify our family and son. "To subsequently learn that he abused our son, and invited others to do the same, has been devastating."

Speaking after the verdict, Morag McLaughlin, area procurator fiscal for Lothian and Borders, said: "Tens of thousands of photographic and video images of children being sexually abused were recovered. "All of those involved in the investigation and prosecution of the case have been profoundly affected by it."

Det Supt Allan Jones, of Lothian and Borders Police, said: "It is every parent's nightmare that their children have been abused and they knew nothing about it.m"Despite that, the families have been a source of unwavering support throughout this investigation and it is our sincere hope the children will flourish and they will be able to enjoy the normal family lives they rightly deserve.
"What everyone must remember is that behind every image is a child who is being abused - it is definitely not the victimless crime some would like to portray it as."

The Operation Algebra police investigation to track down the men has uncovered dozens more suspects around the country and worldwide, many of whom have already been charged.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Hey Deckard, someone posted your update over at SomethingAwful.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Hey Deckard, someone posted your update over at SomethingAwful.

Cool, I'm only on here and Facebook so good to hear it is getting out there.

 

[User 100115]

I really have no words. I'm one of those that is wondering how far this is going to spread. I honestly doubt it's confined to the UK, and if it gets shipped over here (US), you know our media is going to go completely bonkers.

There are honestly no words I can think of to describe how horrible this is.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I really have no words. I'm one of those that is wondering how far this is going to spread. I honestly doubt it's confined to the UK, and if it gets shipped over here (US), you know our media is going to go completely bonkers.

There are honestly no words I can think of to describe how horrible this is.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, I'd be very surprised if it is confined to just the UK.

All it took was one of the dominoes to fall in Savile.

 

[Polari]

Perhaps you should post your summary on reddit, then post the link here so we can all upvote it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Perhaps you should post your summary on reddit, then post the link here so we can all upvote it.

Not on there either!

Anyone who is anywhere just post it and post back here, it's time to leverage the Internet for more than lolcats and images about cancer.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Thank you for your work. This is tragic...

 

[NinjaFridge]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, I'd be very surprised if it is confined to just the UK.

All it took was one of the dominoes to fall in Savile.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection with the Marc Dutroux case.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection with the Marc Dutroux case.

The Scallywag article in 1994 alleged a direct link from Bryn Estyn to Copenhagen through the production of child pornography in the homes. If it was a 'business' it would extend wherever the demand was there and wherever the clients were richest. The Brighton arson attack article in 1997 alleged they were killed because they knew too much about the 'drugs and porn ring' in the children's homes.

Money, power, sex. You had all 3, at the expense and abuse of the most vulnerable in society. Combine all 3 and you begin to understand the extent and how long it was allowed to continue and probably still is. Rochdale, from 2007-2012, would certainly fit the template.

The wider public being abused as well by being lied to, and not protected from it, at every stage. Because everyone's hands are already far too dirty.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I wonder who the

I wonder who the 12% of people are that simultaneously think that the BBC is untrustworthy and a source of national pride?

Edit: I just went back and read the summary from a few pages back. Something about it seems... off. DECK'ARD, is there a reason you didn't actually mention that Steve Messham retracted his allegation and apologised to Lord McAlpine? You state simply that he was named as a perpetrator, he denied it, and that Steve Messham was attacked by the Mail.

 

[Psychotext]

Maybe it's a shady sort of pride?

"Good on you, you little scallywag."

/tussles hair

 

[DECK'ARD]

I wonder who the 12% of people are that simultaneously think that the BBC is untrustworthy and a source of national pride?

Edit: I just went back and read the summary from a few pages back. Something about it seems... off. DECK'ARD, is there a reason you didn't actually mention that Steve Messham retracted his allegation and apologised to Lord McAlpine? You state simply that he was named as a perpetrator, he denied it, and that Steve Messham was attacked by the Mail.

I find the whole Messham thing distinctly distasteful, and the identification and retraction is mired in so much confusion that summarising it is tricky. There are conflicting stories about how the whole thing came to happen in the first place, and going all the way back to the original investigations which we can't be sure of. Including that it was the police who led Messham to believe it was him, and also one when he appeared to identify Jimmie McAlpine. The whole thing, involving both McAlpines is very confusing by its nature.

I thought it better to focus on how close Lord McAlpine is to the whole story, rather than a million miles away like the media has been ramming down people's throats for a whole week.

And also highlighting how Lord McAlpine never sued in 1994 when the allegations were far worse, and far more graphic. No one sued then, at all. But the source of those allegations is now defunct, and the founders both dead.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I find the whole Messham thing distinctly distasteful, and the retraction is mired in so much confusion that summarising it is tricky. There are conflicting stories.

I thought it better to focus on how close Lord McAlpine is to the whole story, rather than a million miles away like the media has been ramming down people's throats for a whole week.

Right. I mean it does sort of give your summary a pretty large political bent, though. You didn't even mention that a retraction had been made, but you did not the somewhat ambiguous "- Media focus shifts completely to the 'crisis' at the BBC" and utterly weaslish "- Integrity and motives of Mail journalist are questioned" - you thought those two were a more important thing to note as a 'summary' to the McAlpine side-story than the fact that the sole witness implicating him withdrew it and apologised? You didn't mention, when linking to the Scallywag article, that the one witness that implicated McAlpine didn't actually know who he was.

It just seems like you posted news and "a complete summary" that leads to a very particular telling of the story, and as such is really not a "complete summary" in any way. I'd suggest that, for someone omitting key details on the grounds that they're "mired in so much confusion", actively trying to shop this around on FB etc as "a complete summary" is somewhat misleading.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Right. I mean it does sort of give your summary a pretty large political bent, though. You didn't even mention that a retraction had been made, but you did not the somewhat ambiguous "- Media focus shifts completely to the 'crisis' at the BBC" and utterly weaslish "- Integrity and motives of Mail journalist are questioned" - you thought those two were a more important thing to note as a 'summary' to the McAlpine side-story than the fact that the sole witness implicating him withdrew it and apologised? You didn't mention, when linking to the Scallywag article, that the one witness that implicated McAlpine didn't actually know who he was.

It just seems like you posted news and "a complete summary" that leads to a very particular telling of the story, and as such is really not a "complete summary" in any way. I'd suggest that, for someone omitting key details on the grounds that they're "mired in so much confusion", actively trying to shop this around on FB etc as "a complete summary" is somewhat misleading.

Calm down, I knew that was coming so I added a lot more.

Rather an odd part to get angry about amongst child abuse, suicides, unexplained deaths and unlawful killings as well. I'm trying to summarise and explain as much as possible, and as much of what people may have missed or not been told as possible. They can turn anywhere for what you are so concerned about, and seemingly the only thing you've been listening to or reading about. Even though there are a lot of questions about it.

Don't like it? Write your own.

Because I'm really not bothered it's upset you. In fact I may now add more to explain all this and get you more upset.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Calm down, I knew that was coming so I added a lot more.

Rather an odd part to get angry about amongst child abuse, suicides, unexplained deaths and unlawful killings as well. I'm trying to summarise and explain as much as possible, and as much of what people may have missed or not been told as possible. They can turn anywhere for what you are so concerned about, and seemingly the only thing you've been listening to or reading about. Even thought there are a lot of questions about it.

Don't like it? Write your own.

Because I'm really not bothered it's upset you. In fact I may now add more to explain all this and get you more upset.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about in most of this post. I was simply saying that you should stop trying to claim your summary to be "complete" when it misses out such key parts of the story (such as explicit retractions) and hovers over ambiguous and vague ones (like the motivations of Daily Mail writers). You're right, it's your summary and you can do what you want with it - I just wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly walk away from it thinking they had all the salient facts, which is rather how you're presenting it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about in most of this post. I was simply saying that you should stop trying to claim your summary to be "complete" when it misses out such key parts of the story (such as explicit retractions) and hovers over ambiguous and vague ones (like the motivations of Daily Mail writers). You're right, it's your summary and you can do what you want with it - I just wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly walk away from it thinking they had all the salient facts, which is rather how you're presenting it.

Try reading, comprehending and understanding.

Wilful ignorance and getting angry about the wrong things completely does have a tendency to make that difficult though. I did actually wonder which muppet would jump on it, congratulations.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Try reading, comprehending and understanding.

Wilful ignorance and getting angry about the wrong things completely does have a tendency to make that difficult though.

I'm not sure what about my posts makes you think I'm getting angry. The way you're responding to me, though. confirms my suspicions that the omissions and highlighting of certain things was entirely intentional so as to paint a particular view. Oh well.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm not sure what about my posts makes you think I'm getting angry. The way you're responding to me, though. confirms my suspicions that the omissions and highlighting of certain things was entirely intentional so as to paint a particular view. Oh well.

It's NOT easy to summarise because that is a summary of confirmed facts via news articles from proper sources.

The identification and retraction of Lord McAlpine has conflicting stories as to how the whole thing happened. And I repeat, you are a muppet. Way to miss the wood for the trees.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's NOT easy to summarise because that is a summary of confirmed facts via news articles from proper sources.

Confirmed facts? You have points that people have "claimed", your own personal take on the media stituation, and in the case of Thatcher you've offered two opposing views in the same sentence. These are "confirmed facts" via "proper sources"? And yet the fact the key witness has since retracted his allegation - which definitely has happened, by the way, and is therefore an actual fact - is omitted. You could explain why you're skeptical about it, or why you may think he was put under pressure etc. But just ignoring it entirely doesn't seem like the rational, sound judgement of someone trying to put forward a fair summary.

The identification and retraction of Lord McAlpine has conflicting stories as to how the whole thing happened. And I repeat, you are a muppet.

Brilliant.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Go play somewhere else.

I guess it is to be expected though, when someone doesn't like the message they start trying to discredit the messenger. Go for bits rather than address the whole, even when that whole is as extensive as this.

I will just further reinforce it the more you attempt it, so it is counterproductive as well. Don't underestimate how angry this makes me and how I will be firmly on the side of the victims no matter what you chuck at me. I bet your summary would have been hilarious, not that you would have gone to all the time and trouble to do this in the first place. Nor seen the point of doing so.

And besides this is all in the hands of a lot of people now with more reach than me to research as they see fit. You are wasting your breath.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Now back to what matters, although I'm not sure why it's requiring going to Australia to get it:

http://www.news.com.au/world/ten-mo...ld-abuse-scandal/story-fndir2ev-1226518556046

Ten more BBC staff acccused of sexual misconduct in wake of Jimmy Savile child abuse scandal

AT least 10 more BBC staff have been accused of sexual misconduct in the wake of the Jimmy Savile child abuse scandal that has rocked the celebrity-obsessed United Kingdom.

The 10 are in addition to 29 other employees of the national broadcaster confirmed as being under investigation for complaints ranging from harassment to assault.

The revelation came as Dave Lee Travis - former BBC radio star and host of the Top of the Pops TV show with Savile - who was arrested yesterday today denied any wrongdoing.

The high profile DJ Mr Travis said his arrest had nothing to do with child abuse.

"This is nothing to do with kids, all right?” he said today.

"That's the first thing. Because that to me is the most important thing in the world and I do not wish to have my name sullied around something that bloody evil, to be honest.

"The second thing I want is to say, yes, there's a complete denial there, but there's nothing else I can tell you because otherwise I might be stepping on the police's feet and I don't want to do that because it might affect their investigations."

It is understood two claims being looked at are an indecent assault of two female radio announcers in the 1970s.

His current employers Magic AM yesterday said he was off the air anyway with "immediate effect”.

Mr Travis was the fourth arrest in the Savile probe which has now seen 450 victims of abuse including sexual assault of boys and girls as young as nine years old by Savile who died last year aged 84 and others at the BBC over a 40 year period.

A team of detectives under Operation Yewtree looking at the Savile claims have already arrested former pop star Gary Glitter, 68, as well as 69-year-old TV comedian Freddie Starr. Former BBC producer Wilfred De'ath, 75, has also been arrested as has Savile’s former chauffeur 71-year-old Ray Teret.

The investigation is continuing with police saying more arrests were likely.

A BBC spokeswoman said today the numbers of those employees being looked at "fluctuate both up and down as new allegations are made and investigated".

 

[DECK'ARD]

I will say though I have a theory this whole BBC thing was set-up, but it will take a lot to pull it together and I'm not sure there's enough out there to do it if that's the case.

Bits don't quite add up yet, I'd prefer to summarise it all when it does. Rather than different explanations of how you get from one bit to the next. I will look into it more now all the chunks are in place with the summary to have an overall picture of what we are dealing with.

Cameron's witch hunt line was just too convenient, and without the Newsnight gaffe and resulting apology you'd never have had this massive distraction involving the BBC. Or the Politics Of Fear being employed via Twitter. Or victims of child abuse being discredited and discouraged from coming forward. It all links together, and all needed the other.

There were no gaffes on Channel 4 which broke all this again in the first place.

 

[East Lake]

I'm not sure what about my posts makes you think I'm getting angry. The way you're responding to me, though. confirms my suspicions that the omissions and highlighting of certain things was entirely intentional so as to paint a particular view. Oh well.

You've confirmed everyone's suspicions you care more about politics than rampant, covered up pedophilia. Time to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Glad someone posted it on SA. Was going to but was busy today.

 

[DECK'ARD]

You've confirmed everyone's suspicions you care more about politics than rampant, covered up pedophilia. Time to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Glad someone posted it on SA. Was going to but was busy today.

Thanks for that, it was winding me up immensely.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Calm down, I knew that was coming so I added a lot more.

Rather an odd part to get angry about amongst child abuse, suicides, unexplained deaths and unlawful killings as well.

It's odd to point out that you mentioned an accusation of child abuse while intentionally leaving out its retraction?

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's odd to point out that you mentioned an accusation of child abuse while intentionally leaving out its retraction?

Gah, because I'm suspicious of it all as I just explained above and the backstory with Messham doesn't fit. It's confused, and we'd have to start back then to end up at the retraction. When things fit, I will summarise it.

But please carry on focussing on one bit if it makes you feel better amongst the mountains of child abuse and everything else. I'm not really bothered, it just makes you look strange. It does wind me up after the amount of time it took to even get to this stage though, not to mention how thoroughly depressing it was to do. If a couple of forum members aren't happy by something not in there quite yet, so be it. You aren't victims either.

I'll put things in when I'm happy it's an accurate summary of how you got from one bit to the next. Don't like it? Tough.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Gah, because I'm suspicious of it all as I just explained above and the backstory with Messham doesn't fit. When things fit, I will summarise it.

But please carry on focussing on one bit if it makes you feel better amongst the mountains of child abuse and everything else. I'm not really bothered, it just makes you look strange.

see, I don't have any skin in UK politics seeing as how I'm not in the UK and don't identify with any party anyway. What I think is actually strange is that as a journalist, you are surprised that people would point this out. And more disturbingly, in fact more so than the omission itself, you seem to be insinuating: if someone focuses on the omission, that person must not really care about child abuse.

There may be mountains of chlid abuse, deserving all hatred and scorn, but that doesn't mean process no longer matters. Even if the guy pointing it out is a dude from the other party motivated by politics. There may be a strong editorial in here about how the retraction can't be taken at face value - but that seems to me to be a completely different concern from not mentioning that the retraction happened at all.

 

[DECK'ARD]

see, I don't have any skin in UK politics seeing as how I'm not in the UK and don't identify with any party anyway. What I think is actually strange is that as a journalist, you are surprised that people would point this out. And more disturbingly, in fact more so than the omission itself, you seem to be insinuating: if someone focuses on the omission, that person must not really care about child abuse.

There may be mountains of chlid abuse, deserving all hatred and scorn, but that doesn't mean process no longer matters. Even if the guy pointing it out is a dude from the other party motivated by politics. There may be a strong editorial in here about how the retraction can't be taken at face value - but that seems to me to be a completely different concern from not mentioning that the retraction happened at all.

More to read above! Because I knew what would be coming, again.

I'm tired, and can't be arsed with this. And I'm not a journalist, I'm just some bloke who made a game with worms in it, and would now rather try and help see justice done for victims of child abuse as best I can do than argue the toss with people like you.

In fact I don't know why I bothered at the moment. Expect I do, and it wasn't for you. And now I'm going to try and get some sleep because that has all been impossible after putting this out there and dealing with the reactions. I've had everything today from ruining people's Fridays on Facebook. Give me a break eh?

 

[Chinner]

Lo @l cyclopsrocks trying to politicise this thread

 

[Dead Man]

Now back to what matters, although I'm not sure why it's requiring going to Australia to get it:

http://www.news.com.au/world/ten-mo...ld-abuse-scandal/story-fndir2ev-1226518556046

Because it is a Murdoch rag that is free from UK libel laws, probably.

 

[Stinkles]

Anyone else find the naming and shaming in the UK, before trial or even charges are announced, to be kind of chilling? It seems to be a combination of press and judiciary that creates an appearance of guilt almost immediately. Been noticing it more and more over the years as I adjust to the far more private US system, I think.

 

[Vagabundo]

DECK'ARD try not to let the criticism get to you.

And everyone should realise that this is just one man's summary of the situation, of course there will be omissions etc. It is intended to be a tool to help people get a bit of an overall picture so they can do their own research. It certainly filled in gaps for me and it was easy to track down more information on the parts I was interested in.

Maybe you need a Disclaimer on it: Error and Omissions etc..

Anyone else find the naming and shaming in the UK, before trial or even charges are announced, to be kind of chilling? It seems to be a combination of press and judiciary that creates an appearance of guilt almost immediately. Been noticing it more and more over the years as I adjust to the far more private US system, I think.

It's a bit of a double edged sword. You do need the media attention to keep the public interest up, otherwise it will get buried by those with a strong interest in protecting themselves. On the other hand you don't want to pillory innocent people. On balance it is probably in the public interest that these stories continue even if there are some rights trampled in the process.

 

[DECK'ARD]

DECK'ARD try not to let the criticism get to you.

And everyone should realise that this is just one man's summary of the situation, of course there will be omissions etc. It is intended to be a tool to help people get a bit of an overall picture so they can do their own research. It certainly filled in gaps for me and it was easy to track down more information on the parts I was interested in.

Maybe you need a Disclaimer on it: Error and Omissions etc..



It's a bit of a double edged sword. You do need the media attention to keep the public interest up, otherwise it will get buried by those with a strong interest in protecting themselves. On the other hand you don't want to pillory innocent people. On balance it is probably in the public interest that these stories continue even if there are some rights trampled in the process.

Thanks, just woke up again :/

My head has been spinning from all this for days, it's been a mountain of stuff to not only find but digest, comprehend, link and then summarise.

I wanted to give Messham his own section, to counteract the Mail On Sunday attack piece and the impression that he has just popped up out of nowhere because it angers me. The same way it angered the original whistleblower in North Wales to see it all happening again, which I linked to in full and it's amazing how some people didn't read that before jumping in.

But I didn't have enough sources yet to clarify what happened the first time round, and until I have that I won't summarise how we get to the end with the apology either. Because one is linked to the other. We do know though that he was released at the age of 16, on Christmas Day, after 2 years of being raped in supposed care of the state, onto the streets to live rough for a few months, and when he did come forward and give statements and evidence that evidence wasn't used and he was beaten up twice. He appears to have got off lightly compared to another who was testifying who had chemicals thrown in his eyes.

Until I can put together a complete summary I am happy with I will be on his side like all the other victims. I won't put a disclaimer because I also see it as quite telling how people react to what that summary describes and the sheer scale of it. They should also just use common sense. Eventually we might have a fully referenced completed work with citations included, I personally am only on update #2. It's more important to start getting that information out there when the media isn't doing a good enough job of it yet by far. It says it gets us from Jimmy Savile to Lord McAlpine, and it does.

Anyone who disagrees my opinion again is that you are a muppet, and there is no need to distract from what we are doing by proving it to me. Help fill in the blanks, don't get upset because of what people have already been told repeatedly. And as for making it political I very deliberately made sure all 3 main parties were mentioned, what we are after is the truth.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Ok, this is all beginning to tie up now with Scallywag's original allegations of it being about a drug and porn ring at the care homes as well as the abuse of children and using them for prostitution. That was also the reason why former victims of the abuse in North Wales were alleged to have been killed in the arson attack in Brighton. It ties up again from linking current news stories to existing ones that were already out there. We have also now definitely gone international.

In the case of North Wales, Scallywag alleged the child pornography went through Copenhagen.

Now this from yesterday:

http://www.mix96.co.uk/news/national/817413/paedophile-warwick-spinks-traced-by-ceops/

Paedophile Warwick Spinks Traced By Ceops

A paedophile who had been on the run for 15 years has been found in the Czech Republic.

Warwick Spinks was arrested at Heathrow Airport on Thursday after he was tracked down by officers from the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (Ceop).

The 48-year-old was convicted in 1995 of a series of sexual offences against boys, including serious sexual assault at knifepoint, taking a child without lawful authority and taking indecent images of children.

He was jailed for seven years but this was reduced to a five-year term on appeal.

Spinks went missing in 1997 while released on licence and fled the UK.

He used various aliases while on the run, including Willem Van Wijk and William Spinks.

Ceop chief executive Peter Davies said: "Ceop officers, in conjunction with officers at the Metropolitan Police Service and Soca (Serious Organised Crime Agency), have worked tirelessly over a number of years to locate and trace a high-risk child sexual offender, who believed he could avoid being managed in the UK by travelling overseas.

"I hope this arrest sends a clear message to other missing child sexual offenders that however far you travel to avoid facing the consequences of your actions, we will track you down and bring you to justice."

Spinks now faces serving the remaining 18 months of his sentence.

To this from 2000.

Bristol:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/nov/27/childprotection.uk

When sex abuse can lead to murder

A year after Bristol detectives finally started to unravel the ring of paedophiles who had been abusing children there for up to 20 years, they found an informant with an alarming story. The man, whom we will call Terry, had a long history of sexually abusing boys. He did not come from Bristol but, by chance, he had come across some of the paedophiles the detectives were investigating - in Amsterdam, where he said they had become involved with a group of exiled British child abusers who had succeeded in commercialising their sexual obsession.

The exiled paedophiles were trafficking boys from other countries; running legitimate gay brothels and selling under-aged boys "under the counter"; they had branched out into the production of child pornography. And they had killed some of them. One boy had simply been shot through the head, Terry said: he had been causing trouble and had been executed in front of several pae dophiles. Another, he believed, had been thrown into one of the canals. But the one about whom he spoke the most was a boy who had been tortured and killed in the most painful fashion in the course of producing a pornographic video.

Terry said he had seen most of the video himself and had vomited before he could reach the end. The few detectives who specialise in the investigation of child abuse invariably say the same thing about "snuff" movies: they have often heard of them, sometimes pursued them but never found one. The videos remain one of the great unsolved mysteries of the burgeoning underworld of international sexual exploitation.

One of the first to do so was Alan Williams, the "Welsh Witch", who already had a vicious history of abusing boys in south Wales. Williams arrived in Amsterdam in 1988, aged 21, and soon set himself up as the manager of a gay brothel called Boys Club 21 at 21 Spuistraat, near the central station. Across the road at number 44, another British paedophile, a chubby Londoner named Warwick Spinks, then aged 25, was running a similar club called the Gay Palace. Both clubs had a legal business, running a bar and offering the services of adult male prostitutes.

Much more at the link.

This is all pretty damning to say the least.

 

[CyclopsRock]

This thread is genuinely baffling me. There is a summary with an absolutely clear, vital omission, and yet it's the person pointing out this omission that's politicising it? I'm not even saying his suspicions are wrong or ill-founded, just that it's evidence of a pre-determined outcome to omit it entirely from the summary, to not even mention it.

But more worrying than that is the idea that seems to be going on in this thread that you're either on DECK'ARD's side, or the paedophiles. There is no other way. I don't care about child abuse, molestation, rape, murder, depression and suicide because I think it's wrong to skip an important part of the story, to not even mention it? What is this, Question Time? Where, if you don't want to get booed, you have to profess your undying love for squaddies and the brave men and women of our military before suggesting that, maybe, funding could go down, or that you'd happily give up your first born in a sacrifice to the mighty NHS and it's gods-on-earth that work there, but hey, maybe it could with with a small bit of reform? This isn't a mutually exclusively dichotomy. It's precisely because I do care about the institutionalised child abuse that's clearly happened over the last 50 years that I wouldn't want people seeing this summary and actually thinking they have a summary of events, but rather a summary of one person's musings and suspicions on the events.

 

[DECK'ARD]

This thread is genuinely baffling me. There is a summary with an absolutely clear, vital omission, and yet it's the person pointing out this omission that's politicising it? I'm not even saying his suspicions are wrong or ill-founded, just that it's evidence of a pre-determined outcome to omit it entirely from the summary, to not even mention it.

But more worrying than that is the idea that seems to be going on in this thread that you're either on DECK'ARD's side, or the paedophiles. There is no other way. I don't care about child abuse, molestation, rape, murder, depression and suicide because I think it's wrong to skip an important part of the story, to not even mention it? What is this, Question Time? Where, if you don't want to get booed, you have to profess your undying love for squaddies and the brave men and women of our military before suggesting that, maybe, funding could go down, or that you'd happily give up your first born in a sacrifice to the mighty NHS and it's gods-on-earth that work there, but hey, maybe it could with with a small bit of reform? This isn't a mutually exclusively dichotomy. It's precisely because I do care about the institutionalised child abuse that's clearly happened over the last 50 years that I wouldn't want people seeing this summary and actually thinking they have a summary of events, but rather a summary of one person's musings and suspicions on the events.

Glad to see you are worried about the issues of the day again. Shouldn't you be more interested in the post in the thread just above you?

I find you baffling personally, luckily you aren't in power though and only on here complaining about an incomplete and still evolving summary of a massive chain of abuse spanning decades. And I've already explained why I want to summarise Messham in his own section, he is rather key and I can't do it until I have enough sources for the story from beginning to apology not to contradict yourself.

Or do you just enjoy winding me up when I'm trying to do something more important?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Glad to see you are worried about the issues of the day again.

I find you baffling personally, luckily you aren't in power though and only on here complaining about an incomplete and still evolving summary of a massive chain of abuse spanning decades.

Again, you can only care about one thing? It's either accept your summary entirely, or you don't care about paedophilia?

Fuck this.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Again, you can only care about one thing? It's either accept your summary entirely, or you don't care about paedophilia?

Fuck this.

Good, now piss off.

 

[DECK'ARD]

In case you hadn't noticed, this thing has just gone INTERNATIONAL.