How dare you blurt out demonstrably true words.
Child allegedly told Paterno of sex abuse in 1976, decades before official action
- Thread starter TarpitCarnivore
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How dare you blurt out demonstrably true words.
And never will, which is the mind boggling part. I absolutely loathe the religious cult-like personality of sports in America. There really should be no cover-up for things like this, but folks try to rationalize it away because "well, we won a lot of games under them. So they can't be all bad!"
Ugh. He should've totally done it and threw a spotlight on Sandusky.
Lol no.
What? Sandusky was consider so much the heir apparent that people would immediately assume something fucked up if Paterno fired him. Paterno chose to keep things quiet.
Brainfreeze
Member
Am currently attending Penn State and can see the football stadium (and hear the games) from my apartment AMA.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
I went to Penn State. Never understood the hype. Attended more women's basketball games (they were a better team!) than men's football games.
I think it's wrong to penalize student-athletes who chose to attend Penn State to play, along with anyone who wasn't associated with the Paterno regime. There's also the point that levying further penalties and fines against the institution might actually harm the university as a whole.
Paterno, by the way, can rot in hell, and make no mistakes about it. Erase everything regarding his tenure: rename the library, tear down statues and artwork, whatever. I've got no problem with that, and the university should do everything it can to distance itself from this criminal.
As much as I have mixed feeling about many college athletics as a whole, I'd rather not see PSU singled out because of Paterno's deeds. Purge his "victories," enshrine his crimes, but I don't see the point in taking away scholarships or killing the football program itself.
I think it's wrong to penalize student-athletes who chose to attend Penn State to play, along with anyone who wasn't associated with the Paterno regime. There's also the point that levying further penalties and fines against the institution might actually harm the university as a whole.
Paterno, by the way, can rot in hell, and make no mistakes about it. Erase everything regarding his tenure: rename the library, tear down statues and artwork, whatever. I've got no problem with that, and the university should do everything it can to distance itself from this criminal.
As much as I have mixed feeling about many college athletics as a whole, I'd rather not see PSU singled out because of Paterno's deeds. Purge his "victories," enshrine his crimes, but I don't see the point in taking away scholarships or killing the football program itself.
They won't get punished. The NCAA previously gave athletes free transfers to any school they wanted to in similar situations, and if they don't want to go elsewhere Penn State can be forced to give them the full ride scholarship without having to take another play of football again.
The point is that the entire reason for covering up child rape was to protect the football program. The only way to destroy the Penn state football cult is to destroy its object.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because that's what the NCAA does for far lesser offenses. It's really the only leverage they have. Coaches that commit infractions or players that take money can just leave, so if what consequence is there? I'd be fine with them releasing players form their scholarships so they can go play elsewhere (which is something the NCAA should do anyway whenever coaches leave or are fired IMO) And coaches/assistants who had nothing to do with it are also free to find new jobs.
Don't worry, nothing will happen.
This thread is out of control . Penn state student here. Some background I came here 2010 started grad school so I give two fucks about the football team I like the chant but prefer nfl. We as grad students who had nothing to do with it go thru mandatory training where we get the legal implications . It's mandated by Penn state ever since it happened
So
One as a person in authority ( complicated definition but as a ta I am one ) we have to report things and it's drilled as a Penn state student in any sort of authority .
Two
We have now a clear definition on what is legally your fault if you're in a position of authority if you don't report you can be prosecuted . And this is what a lot of need to realize Paterno was in a position of authority and if he isn't being prosecuted that's the law .not enough evidence .
Also ppl saying the program was based on some pedophile enterprise how about you quit subway forever ? That promotion was based on it too . There was a bad element he got prosecuted and I hope everyone involved does but don't broad stroke this . The school had a Dean resign we have a new person etc . Everyone responsible is prosecuted let the legal system do it's thing ... as an international grad student who gives two fucks about psu football
Any valid counter arguments I will address
So
One as a person in authority ( complicated definition but as a ta I am one ) we have to report things and it's drilled as a Penn state student in any sort of authority .
Two
We have now a clear definition on what is legally your fault if you're in a position of authority if you don't report you can be prosecuted . And this is what a lot of need to realize Paterno was in a position of authority and if he isn't being prosecuted that's the law .not enough evidence .
Also ppl saying the program was based on some pedophile enterprise how about you quit subway forever ? That promotion was based on it too . There was a bad element he got prosecuted and I hope everyone involved does but don't broad stroke this . The school had a Dean resign we have a new person etc . Everyone responsible is prosecuted let the legal system do it's thing ... as an international grad student who gives two fucks about psu football
Any valid counter arguments I will address
Ninja Scooter
Member
Did Subway cover up for Jared for 30 years after finding out he raped kids?
So subway found out and addressed it . Did Penn state do it ? It's a legal question ?and Pennsylvania laws on child molestation are strong so why don't we let the courts decide ? And this is coming from an international. And I'm sure from how Penn state has had to make even us grad students from completely different fields undertake mandatory training the school is taking the right steps .unless somehow you feel everything about Penn state is defined by Sandusky
Apparently not.
Unless you're asking if Penn State covered it up, in which case yes, they did.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because Joe Paterno is dead so the law isn't going to decide. I think people are upset about the fact that this happened because of some crazed, cult-like football culture, and the NCAA and some people with sense (which few apparently exist in Happy Valley) could have used this as an opportunity to send a message against this kind of mindset as, as evidenced by this and other incidents around the country (rapes and assaults being covered up by local police and colleges), it can be incredibly toxic and damaging. But of course, that's too much to ask for from people as corrupt as those that run college football, that doesn't mean we can't lament the fact that things are the way they are.
This I addressed in my reply Pennsylvania law requires if you're in a position of authority and did not intervene you get a felony . It's pretty straight so if Joe Paterson or any of Penn state covered it up they get felonies including the resigned Dean
Jesus Christ did you not even read my post I'm a grad student I don't give two shits about psu football I hadn't even heard about Joe Paterson till just flew in here and year later he was embroiled in that controversy and then dead. And wtf you're now bringing rapes and assaults and some cover up into this ?that is so not okay
HalfBakedProphet
Member
it's not my intention to add to the dogpile but you have to realize what an obvious smokescreen this is.
Anytime a PSU student or alum starts the discussion with "won't anyone think of the student athletes?!?" instead of the many victims of the child rapist your school and athletic department protected and enabled, it's difficult to take them seriously at that point.
This only works if you completely ignore how closely intertwined Paterno was with modern era PSU.
Now this is the more complicated thing when I flew in as an international and mentioned Penn state just heard oh Joe paterno ...then that happened I came in 2010 so I'm very neutral about it I have no loyalty or anything . Many ppl do and many ppl don't . But my honest belief is this .let the courts decide . The laws are strict on any child molestation so let the courts decide and respect the courts decisionit's not my intendion to add to the dogpile but you have to realize what an obvious smokescreen this is.
Anytime a PSU student or alum starts the discussion with "won't anyone think of the student athletes?!?" instead of the many victims of the child rapist your school and athletic department protected and enabled, it's difficult to take them seriously at that point.
I'll address this .the student athletes were given the option to transfer and some did
This only works if you completely ignore how closely intertwined Paterno was with modern era PSU.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Why was Sandusky worth protecting? What did he know?
TarpitCarnivore
Member
1. The mandatory training came after the fact, and to be honest I would not be shocked if this kind of insistence and training is just standard code of conduct stuff.
2. If this is a new thing it happened after the case and honestly should not have needed a case to be implemented.
3. You keep referring to it as you, a TA, but the people involved in this were not TA. They were coaches, coaches kids are supposed to trust. Coaches who are, by football standards, meant to help these kids grow, learn and become better individuals.
4. The cases were around Sandusky's second mile program. The program took place on PSU campus and when people brought stuff forward to appropriate channels it got squashed. Somewhere in the chain of command things would get pushed aside. This is/was a top down institutional issue and endemic of problems with NCAA sports (ignoring problems).
5. Unfortunately the NCAA needs to do something to send a message.
I defended the current crop of coaches and athletes before, but if the death penalty was enacted I would not be totally upset over it. The death penalty will only impact the football program, all other programs should be able to function. Paterno's legacy also needs to be wiped.
And lastly, fuck the B1G Conferences
He didn't know anything, but it's a thing of image. Penn State has, for as long as JOEPA been there, had this image of greatness and prestige school. Burying the allegations helps maintain PSU and JoePa's image. If the stuff got out it would make Paterno look bad (it really wouldn't, but cult) and thus could have hurt his recruiting, the school and his legacy.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
That's false.
...but this is all about children having been sexually abused in a process that may then have covered it up, isn't it? I don't think it's 'not okay' to talk about that in the context of other sexual crimes which leave a lasting impact on the victims.
Brainfreeze
Member
Just to add to this, I also worked part time for the school, and the amount of red tape now compared to before all of this, or even a year ago, is insane. Ton of rules and regulations you have to follow and checks you have pass to get a basic job here. For reference, I started at Penn State when I was still a minor, and I still had go through a class on recognizing and reporting child abuse, and I wasn't allowed to be alone with a minor at any time (not that I had a job that would really make me interact with minors, but it was still stressed).
So whether this is a geuine effort to address these issues or just them saving their own ass if anything happens again, there are absolutely shockwaves from this still developing. And they're very open about Sandusky being the cause. So, at the very least, they're clearly not trying to just swipe this under the rug and forget it happened.
Not that that addresses many of the complaints here, but just some perspective.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Bingo.
Also, this isn't about "trusting the law and letting it run its course". The main issue, post-scandal, is the NCAA and how they've gone about this entire ordeal.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Again, no one is saying the school needs to be shut down and abolished. They're saying the FOOTBALL program and ONLY the football program need to have a death penalty like sanction levied against it.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Put it back up, but make it look the other way.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Everyone I know on Facebook with ties to the school does.
Obviously not everyone, but it's a problem.
I don't know. I just went to a PSU alumni wedding...they had cardboard cutouts of him that they posed with.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Its fucking disgusting. I used to go to games with my dad when I was a little kid. This state is far too obsessed with PSU.
College sports as a whole need to be taken down a peg.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
This is a terrible but valuable look at the way sports culture can run completely out of control. The lack of perspective is frightening.
The Jackdog
Member
im from eastern pa, philly.
i went to temple.
i hate penn state and the penn state culture, i grew up hating it.
but shutting down the entire football program? cmon. Punish the people responsible. find them, jail them, sue them, whatever. tearing it all down is an overreaction. fuck joepa, fuck penn state, i agree. but people clamoring for the whole program to be shut down are just jerking their knees.
i went to temple.
i hate penn state and the penn state culture, i grew up hating it.
but shutting down the entire football program? cmon. Punish the people responsible. find them, jail them, sue them, whatever. tearing it all down is an overreaction. fuck joepa, fuck penn state, i agree. but people clamoring for the whole program to be shut down are just jerking their knees.
gutter_trash
Banned
the College sport cult mind is as infectious as religious fundamentalism running over reason and logic with cult fanaticism.
shut down Penn State
shut down Penn State
The school benefited for years, actually decades from the cover up. Not letting them have football isn't really that harsh considering what went down.
And it sends a strong message to other football programs.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I think my reasoning for wanting to shut down the football program is well thought and argued, as opposed to your reasoning to not shut it down, which as far as I can see is essentially "come on."
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I imagine they were paying insurance for years against civil liability claims or something of that nature. The insurance company is probably taking them to task on violating the terms of that agreement so they don't have to pay out, as insurance companies are wont to do.
The argument for shutting it down goes along with the argument that getting rid of the sanctions early was harmful; the people at the school didn't learn the lesson that these sort of things have consequences, and the fans didn't learn the lesson that hero worship is detrimental to justice.
If the idea behind a punishment is in fact rehabilitation, we are failing the entire nation by allowing Penn State to go on as if nothing ever happened. Especially if they get the money back that they paid out.
You don't doubt that other schools are harboring serial child rapists and covering up decades of abuse for football?
What a depressing world view you must have.
The Jackdog
Member
i dont necessarily disagree with you, and i agree, i think your points are well thought and well argued.
I just know how much that program means to people. People who, mind you, i do not like. I think shutting down the football program lets the people who are truly, really responsible, get away with too much.
A lot of students are getting an education at penn state (i wont get into the whole 'do athletes actually go to PLAY SKOOL or PLAY BALL debate, thats a whole different thing) because of the football program. A lot of other programs at the school which allow students to get scholarships are funded entirely because of the football program. That money, is, as you said, basically tainted. And i agree.
I think were just disconnecting on how to handle the situation. To you, shut it all down. I get that. To me, the only difference is i want to come down harder than a hammer on the people actually responsible. Sanction the team, maybe make it harder to recruit by taking away their ability to appear in championships, drag their name through the mud, idc. Because i dont give a damn if penn state is good at football, id rather they were terrible. I just dont think the whole program should be abolished. i want the people who knew about it to never see the outside of a jail cell instead
Does that make any sense?
TheOrangeKid007
Member
Ignoring the football for a second, State College is a cult. It is a secluded area where young people are fed this honor and integrity crap about how special they are. Anyone who lives in PA knows about Penn State and their annoying THON weekend where the University sends out it students to "raise money for cancer patients"..aka an endowment. And these kids go out in droves to do it. Every street corner is filled with these morons who tell themselves they are helping kids when they are just raising money for a State Penn.
If the truth came out in 1976 Joe Paterno would never have worked in college football again. He protected himself and his legacy.
The kids who choose to go and play football at Penn State know about the program and its history. I say too bad for them, there are plenty of other colleges they can go to (and lets not kid ourselves about the direction Penn State football is going in anyway). Oh and if you think the University turned a new leaf...they hired James Franklin.
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/08/james-franklin-vanderbilt-rape-case-penn-state-video
they only care about bringing their football program back to glory. That is why it should be shut down.
If the truth came out in 1976 Joe Paterno would never have worked in college football again. He protected himself and his legacy.
The kids who choose to go and play football at Penn State know about the program and its history. I say too bad for them, there are plenty of other colleges they can go to (and lets not kid ourselves about the direction Penn State football is going in anyway). Oh and if you think the University turned a new leaf...they hired James Franklin.
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/08/james-franklin-vanderbilt-rape-case-penn-state-video
they only care about bringing their football program back to glory. That is why it should be shut down.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I don't think the football program should be abolished, but it needs a death penalty like sanction. Something in the 5-10 year range can do enough to get the point across to the university, and the rest of the FBS, to be on top of their shit.
PSU can more easily rebuild post penalty than SMU did. SMU was a power school the years around it, but never had the lineage that PSU has built up now.
The thing is even if the NCAA tries this James Delaney will be campaigning to not have it happen. He's so god damn crooked and he wont let his precious conference lose out on money from the hit of PSU.
PSU can more easily rebuild post penalty than SMU did. SMU was a power school the years around it, but never had the lineage that PSU has built up now.
The thing is even if the NCAA tries this James Delaney will be campaigning to not have it happen. He's so god damn crooked and he wont let his precious conference lose out on money from the hit of PSU.
The Jackdog
Member
Hey man, a lot of my really good friends when to penn state. Really great people.
.....that as soon as they open their mouth about penn state become complete morons.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
To the people responsible, the football program is the only thing they hold dear.
Everything (and everyone) else is secondary.
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