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Child allegedly told Paterno of sex abuse in 1976, decades before official action

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H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Krejlooc said:
You don't doubt that other schools are harboring serial child rapists and covering up decades of abuse for football?

What a depressing world view you must have.
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Sadly my world view is reconfirmed every time some famous celebrity or person in power is revealed to be a child molester. Hell the Speaker of the House was one of the latest persons revealed and lets not forget guys like Jimmy Saville and so on. Obviously they aren't related to sports but still, I would not put it past a sports obsessed school hiding some real fucked up shit. We've already seen rapes and other things covered up for the sake of the sports programs at other schools, not even colleges but high schools. So yeah I could easily see this happening else where.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
The Jackdog said:
i dont necessarily disagree with you, and i agree, i think your points are well thought and well argued.

I just know how much that program means to people. People who, mind you, i do not like. I think shutting down the football program lets the people who are truly, really responsible, get away with too much.

A lot of students are getting an education at penn state (i wont get into the whole 'do athletes actually go to PLAY SKOOL or PLAY BALL debate, thats a whole different thing) because of the football program. A lot of other programs at the school which allow students to get scholarships are funded entirely because of the football program. That money, is, as you said, basically tainted. And i agree.

I think were just disconnecting on how to handle the situation. To you, shut it all down. I get that. To me, the only difference is i want to come down harder than a hammer on the people actually responsible. Sanction the team, maybe make it harder to recruit by taking away their ability to appear in championships, drag their name through the mud, idc. Because i dont give a damn if penn state is good at football, id rather they were terrible. I just dont think the whole program should be abolished. i want the people who knew about it to never see the outside of a jail cell instead

Does that make any sense?
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No, because the changes you propose would hurt the other programs just as much. If they are dependent on football to survive, then any harm to football revenue will hurt their bottom line.

No half measures, do the right thing.
 
T

The Jackdog

Member
Krejlooc said:
No, because the changes you propose would hurt the other programs just as much. If they are dependent on football to survive, then any harm to football revenue will hurt their bottom line.

No half measures, do the right thing.
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i honestly dont know what the right thing is. this went on so long, and it was fucking terrible the whole time, does shutting the program down actually do any "good"? For victims? Or would we just feel better?

Honestly asking. Regardless of what side your on, i really dont know how to make this "right" and am so thankful im not in charge of that decision.
 
T

TheOrangeKid007

Member
Krejlooc said:
No, because the changes you propose would hurt the other programs just as much. If they are dependent on football to survive, then any harm to football revenue will hurt their bottom line.

No half measures, do the right thing.
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Well I guess that means they just have to suffer. Then less students will attend the university and the university and its employees will suffer. That is the consequence of making Joe Paterno godlike. There are always consequences.
 
B

Bert409

Member
Again, I live and work at Penn State, and most people don't particularly give a shit about Paterno. I can go weeks without hearing anybody mention the football program. Having said that:

a) The school and town can absolutely survive without the football program.

b) Don't label entire community of thousands an insane cult.
 
Tal Shiar Agent

Tal Shiar Agent

Banned
Bert409 said:
Again, I live and work at Penn State, and most people don't particularly give a shit about Paterno. I can go weeks without hearing anybody mention the football program. Having said that:

a) The school and town can absolutely survive without the football program.

b) Don't label entire community of thousands an insane cult.
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I live in the heart of Penn State country and I would characterize that Paterno has a major cult of personality.
 
R

Ryuuroden

Member
Krejlooc said:
You don't doubt that other schools are harboring serial child rapists and covering up decades of abuse for football?

What a depressing world view you must have.
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There are currently over 250 colleges and universities under investigation for title xi violations of covering up rape, many involving athletes and athletic programs. His world view isn't wrong and schools that cover up rape of women get even lighter slaps on the hand than Penn state did because "the woman was obviously asking for it" victim blaming culture.
 
E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
Bert409 said:
Again, I live and work at Penn State, and most people don't particularly give a shit about Paterno. I can go weeks without hearing anybody mention the football program. Having said that:

a) The school and town can absolutely survive without the football program.

b)Don't label entire community of thousands an insane cult.
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They brought it on themselves.

And it's definitely still a problem.
 
T

The Jackdog

Member
Bert409 said:
Again, I live and work at Penn State, and most people don't particularly give a shit about Paterno. I can go weeks without hearing anybody mention the football program. Having said that:

a) The school and town can absolutely survive without the football program.

b) Don't label entire community of thousands an insane cult.
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i only need 10 fingers and 10 toes to count how many times ive been to penn state, but this is so not the vibe i got when im there
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Bert409 said:
Again, I live and work at Penn State, and most people don't particularly give a shit about Paterno. I can go weeks without hearing anybody mention the football program. Having said that:

a) The school and town can absolutely survive without the football program.

b) Don't label entire community of thousands an insane cult.
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First thing I would have done is transfer. It's lousy, but if I had a degree on display from the University that would be the first thing that would come to mind.

It's a label now.
 
E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
spookyfish said:
I can't ... there are no words. How do these people function in the real world?
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6a00d83451c45669e2015436c475b7970c-550wi.jpg


Not necessarily in that order.
 
spookyfish

spookyfish

Member
Krejlooc said:
In the end, it's not about their stupid defense force, though, it's about the institution that is Penn State Football. It's a $100 million dollar business. They are routinely one of the top 5 in revenue. They make so much fucking money it is insane. And the reason it exists as a juggernaut it is today is largely because of Jo Paterno's decision to keep silent.

Look at the dates being discussed - 1976: Penn State went 9-3 in 1975 and finished #10, then went 11-1 in 1977 and finished #5. They were in the National Title hunt those years.

1987: Penn State had finished 12-0 in 1986 and won their last national championship. They were in the national title hunt.

1988: This was Joe Paterno's worst year in a long time, people were asking if he should retire.

A sex abuse scandal in any of those years would have destroyed their football program and caused irreparable harm. By being able to weather those years, Penn State is what it is today. Don't forget, they were independents until 1991, their application into the Big Ten wasn't set in stone until 3 years after this last time a child told joe pa personally what happened. Do you think the Big Ten would have let Penn State into the conference in 1991 with a sex abuse scandal on their hands?

Every single time the Joe Paterno didn't act, it was directly for the betterment of himself and the football program and Penn State's pecking order in the college football world.

That is fucking disgusting. Their football program is built on ill gains, and it doesn't deserve to exist.
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This is really insightful. Thank you.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Fun little anecdote from when I was looking for colleges to go to over a decade ago I was thinking of going to Penn State and went to visit and take a tour and all that. While on the tour we saw most of the campus including the football stadium and a lot of the talk on the tour was about Football this and football that. Now I knew Penn State was huge on football before even applying but when I asked the question,"What happens if I'm not that interested or big into Football?"

The tour guide's, who was also a student there, response to that,"This is probably not a school you want to go to then. Football is life here." So while I'm sure some people aren't into the football program there, the feeling I got while visiting that all this school was about was their football program, they talked more about that
 
P

PopeReal

Member
I am guessing that all of the victims that have come forward have already been compensated? So there are no more legal avenues available against Penn State or the NCAA? Because I doubt anything more will happen if it is up to the NCAA.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
HStallion said:
Sadly my world view is reconfirmed every time some famous celebrity or person in power is revealed to be a child molester. Hell the Speaker of the House was one of the latest persons revealed and lets not forget guys like Jimmy Saville and so on. Obviously they aren't related to sports but still, I would not put it past a sports obsessed school hiding some real fucked up shit. We've already seen rapes and other things covered up for the sake of the sports programs at other schools, not even colleges but high schools. So yeah I could easily see this happening else where.
Click to expand...
The existence of child abusers is not always linked to those in power covering it up.
 
R

Ryuuroden

Member
Gurrry said:
The NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations on the planet. They arent gonna do shit.
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College football needs a commissioner position with power like the nfl does. That will solve all the problems....

in case you couldn't tell, /s
 
B

Brainfreeze

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
Again, no one is saying the school needs to be shut down and abolished. They're saying the FOOTBALL program and ONLY the football program need to have a death penalty like sanction levied against it.
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And I mentioned that this wouldn't address all complaints. The consequences the football program should deal with are something I am completely ignorant on, I don't know exactly how that works. My point was more about addressing the continued persistence in this thread about Penn state community and culture.

Faculty (at least, in my experience) down right hate Paterno for what he did to the legacy of the school and their own legitimacy. Students don't give a shit about him. And, it seems to me that some higher ups definitely take this seriously and have addressed it both structurally and culturally, and they're continuing to update both policy and discussion on the offenses. The only people fighting this fight are frat kids and the droves of drunk asshole alumni who flood our streets on football weekend, and people like the NCAA who profit off this.

I have no issue if you punish the football program, it's my least favorite part of this school. And Penn State absolutely has some brainwashing when it comes to fracking and THON. But to pretend that the whole culture is this kind of fucked up monstrosity representative of what Paterno did, all 40000 people... Well, that's just shitty. That's not what most people are like. Freshman attendance, by my understanding, is sharply declining at football games. The sense of pride isn't there anymore.
 
P

PopeReal

Member
Ryuuroden said:
College football needs a commissioner position with power like the nfl does. That will solve all the problems....

in case you couldn't tell, /s
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True. But it doesn't mean there couldn't be another way. Not that anything is going to change.
 
P

Pandora012

Member
HStallion said:
Fun little anecdote from when I was looking for colleges to go to over a decade ago I was thinking of going to Penn State and went to visit and take a tour and all that. While on the tour we saw most of the campus including the football stadium and a lot of the talk on the tour was about Football this and football that. Now I knew Penn State was huge on football before even applying but when I asked the question,"What happens if I'm not that interested or big into Football?"

The tour guide's, who was also a student there, response to that,"This is probably not a school you want to go to then. Football is life here." So while I'm sure some people aren't into the football program there, the feeling I got while visiting that all this school was about was their football program, they talked more about that
Click to expand...

I think things have changed now. Not everything revolves around football. Though when those game days do occur it's like the whole campus is there. Basically, as a person that has no interest in Football I didn't feel left out at all. It also helped that I had friends that weren't that into Football either.
 
I

Ishan

Junior Member
The Jackdog said:
i only need 10 fingers and 10 toes to count how many times ive been to penn state, but this is so not the vibe i got when im there
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Pandora012 said:
I think things have changed now. Not everything revolves around football. Though when those game days do occur it's like the whole campus is there. Basically, as a person that has no interest in Football I didn't feel left out at all. It also helped that I had friends that weren't that into Football either.
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Psu has a solid football focus but the Joe pa focus is among older alums not newer ones or current students also yeah no I'll happily keep my psu education . The company hiring me looks at my work and recommendation and am pretty sure doesn't group me in with child molesters
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
elrechazado said:
The existence of child abusers is not always linked to those in power covering it up.
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Well no shit, I realize that. My point was more that it seems there are far more people than I expected that have risen to positions of power and authority and use it to enable their darkest desires or those of others who are so "valuable" that they'd rather brush the abuse under the rug than confront it and all the things that go with that. Most child abuse happens from someone the child already knows, a lot of times family.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Brainfreeze said:
And I mentioned that this wouldn't address all complaints. The consequences the football program should deal with are something I am completely ignorant on, I don't know exactly how that works. My point was more about addressing the continued persistence in this thread about Penn state community and culture.
Click to expand...

For better or worse there is a guilty by association when it comes to the cult like nature of PSU/Paterno fans. So I would presume that by coming down with a death penalty (essentially remove all wins, championships and scholarships) it would do potential damage to that cult. Why? Football would be out of the spotlight at PSU and the rabidness of the lineage of fans would die down with it.

Again this is all extremely hard to pull off because the president of the B1G Conference is a huge huge presence in the BCS and would likely do whatever he could to not lose that revenue stream for himself.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
TarpitCarnivore said:
For better or worse there is a guilty by association when it comes to the cult like nature of PSU/Paterno fans. So I would presume that by coming down with a death penalty (essentially remove all wins, championships and scholarships) it would do potential damage to that cult. Why? Football would be out of the spotlight at PSU and the rabidness of the lineage of fans would die down with it.

Again this is all extremely hard to pull off because the president of the B1G Conference is a huge huge presence in the BCS and would likely do whatever he could to not lose that revenue stream for himself.
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the BCS doesnt exist anymore
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
The Jackdog said:
im from eastern pa, philly.

i went to temple.

i hate penn state and the penn state culture, i grew up hating it.

but shutting down the entire football program? cmon. Punish the people responsible. find them, jail them, sue them, whatever. tearing it all down is an overreaction. fuck joepa, fuck penn state, i agree. but people clamoring for the whole program to be shut down are just jerking their knees.
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how do you punish the people responsible for the continued perpetuation of joe paterno as an innocent football coaching god who knew nothing of the events and had his name tarnished by slander through this incident?
 
C

Cyan

Banned
It's just too bad JoePa isn't still alive to look for the real killer.

The Jackdog said:
I just know how much that program means to people...
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Yes, this is the whole problem. Legally, there may be nothing to be done. Which sucks. But if it were possible, I'd absolutely support abolishing the football program because fuck these people.
 
A

Advocatus Diaboli

Member
HalfBakedProphet said:
it's not my intention to add to the dogpile but you have to realize what an obvious smokescreen this is.
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Yeah, no, that doesn't work with me -- I don't actually care at all about college athletics, and if I were God-Emperor of the NCAA, I'd end the "student-athlete" farce altogether.

HalfBakedProphet said:
i
Anytime a PSU student or alum starts the discussion with "won't anyone think of the student athletes?!?" instead of the many victims of the child rapist your school and athletic department protected and enabled, it's difficult to take them seriously at that point.
gKssWpD.jpg


This only works if you completely ignore how closely intertwined Paterno was with modern era PSU.
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Again, this doesn't work with me. I attended one PSU football game in my 5 1/2 years there. Anyone associated with the Paterno regime ought to be prosecuted. Anyone who covered it up should be fired as well. Burn it (administratively) to the ground. I was a prosecutor. I focused on sexual assaults. Believe me when I say that I understand, better than most people here (and this isn't a brag -- it's disgusting) the lifelong damage sexually assaulting a child can bring.

All I'm saying is this: any penalty levied against the current institution needs to account for attenuation in responsibility from those associated with this heinous crime.

Ninja Scooter said:
Because that's what the NCAA does for far lesser offenses. It's really the only leverage they have. Coaches that commit infractions or players that take money can just leave, so if what consequence is there? I'd be fine with them releasing players form their scholarships so they can go play elsewhere (which is something the NCAA should do anyway whenever coaches leave or are fired IMO) And coaches/assistants who had nothing to do with it are also free to find new jobs.
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Yeah, that's a decent compromise. Again, before people accuse me of drinking Happy Valley Kool-Aid, understand that the amount of fucks I give about college athletics is roughly zero. But I'd rather see the equivalent of bankruptcy proceedings and unwinding of assets, so to speak.

Putting aside the proper way to manage the program, as I think reasonable minds can differ on that, I'm angered by the fact that the University hasn't distanced itself from everything Paterno-related altogether.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Two Words said:
Why not remove all those that benefited from the cover up and let the school move on?
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So if this is the case what's stopping every school from paying recruits, getting rid of the coaching staff when they are caught and just rinsing/repeating? When USC was punshed Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush were long gone, so nothing should have happened to them, right? The reasons the schools (and future players/coaches) are the ones who face the brunt of the punishment is because that's all the recourse the NCAA has to send a message. They can't go and start punishing people who are no longer employed/attending the schools in question.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
StopMakingSense said:
This may be worth of another thread, but this just got posted. holy shit:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...id-6-penn-state-coaches-witness-abuse-n569526

"As many as six assistant coaches at Penn State witnessed "inappropriate behavior" between Jerry Sandusky and boys, stretching as far back as the 1970s, NBC News has learned."
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It's so gross. This is partly why it's wrong to say "just punish those involved." It's such a cult thing there that nearly everyone was willing to look the other way while young boys got raped. The punishment needs to be on the community itself. Taking out the football team sends a message that no, Penn State football is NOT more important than protecting kids from rape.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
StopMakingSense said:
This may be worth of another thread, but this just got posted. holy shit:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...id-6-penn-state-coaches-witness-abuse-n569526

"As many as six assistant coaches at Penn State witnessed "inappropriate behavior" between Jerry Sandusky and boys, stretching as far back as the 1970s, NBC News has learned."
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That's not all: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/us/jerry-sandusky-victims-paterno-penn-state/index.html

Victims alleging JoePa told them to keep quite on an allegation.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
This is beyond disgusting. This in particular though was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I was really into college football growing up and going through school. But as it became more and more obvious how corrupt big time college sports are I just stopped caring. I used to attend half a dozen games a year at least. Now, I haven't been to a game at all in several years.

If I give money to a university now I give it directly to academic programs. My money is much better spent there anyway.
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/us/jerry-sandusky-victims-paterno-penn-state/index.html

the past year or so, life has become more difficult for Victim A. He's had a heart attack and several other health scares. The stress, he says, is overwhelming -- especially because he feels like people in State College care more about Paterno than the victims. He has lost friends.

One of them, a former pro player who used to take him to Super Bowls, told him he didn't want him hanging around his football friends anymore, and humiliated him at a party.
"He taped something to my ass and called it Sandusky's hole," he said. "It's absolutely horrible what he did to me. He's hurt me about as much as I've been hurt."

Victim A becomes outraged and visibly upset when he talks to people who can't seem to get past the impact the scandal had on their idol, Paterno.
"State College is a disgusting place, the way they treat crimes against kids," he said. "We are living in a very sick atmosphere."
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This is sickening. So horrible.
 
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