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[Pristine_Condition]

So my question to you is, how do you know which parts are fictional and which parts are literal?

It takes study, but mostly through context and your own experience with the text.

For example, when Jesus tells a parable, it's pretty obviously a parable. It's likely a fictional story designed to teach a lesson. I don't actually think there was an actual woman who lost a pearl, for example. There may have been. Who knows. That's not important though. In the case of parables, it's the lesson that matters.

Since there are fictional parts, how do you as a Christian feel about people taking those parts as literal?

I don't think you are talking about the parables. It's not my place to tell others what to believe. It is my place to find out what I believe, and find like minds to congregate with if I want.

Why call yourself Christian at all if you are going to be grouped with others that call themselves Christians but have such a starkly different view of the Bible?

I'd say if you agree on the basics, (like what's contained in the Nicene or Apostle's Creeds) you call yourself Christian as a general, macro term.

Same reason Pepsi is a cola, even though it's not Coke. It's not really worth worrying about.

I identify myself as a Christian in general. To other Christians, I identify myself as Lutheran. To other Lutherans, I identify myself as Missouri Synod.

I think that when people call themselves Christian, they are permitting other people, with VERY different views who also call themselves Christian to gain clout and acceptance - this is a grave mistake in my opinion, and this is not limited to Christians, but also Muslims, and any religion that has people committing atrocities in the name of their beliefs.

You can point out your differences in beliefs, and even things you believe they are in error on, but I think the notion of calling someone out and basically telling them they aren't a Christian like you are treads too close to judging others' faith. That's something a Christian is warned to try very hard not to do:

Matthew 7

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

This is just... This is... Hmm.

Yeah, pretty much.

My main problem with Christianity is where they locate morality, which essentially cuts to the core of the religion.

Often religious people will make the claim that secular morality is inferior because it is based on subjective values, where indeed the reverse is often found to be true. And I think the reasons why are intuitive: when you base something natural (morality/ethics) on abstracted speculative belief, you increase the degree of separation from it via that abstraction and you muddy up your motivations.

I have no problem with religion. Indeed, I see myself as one or two steps short of considering myself a Buddhist. My problem is with dogmatism. I tend to follow the William Blake school of Christian philosophy, I think the Bible is best interpreted mystically rather than dogmatically.

edit: It's past my bed time, though. If this generates any discussion I'll resume tomorrow.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Any Christians in here researching the earth quakes, comets, astrological alignments, etc?

I just read this article: Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet; shifted Earth's axis

I also saw this article earlier: Magnetic North Pole Shifts, Forces Runway Closures at Florida Airport

Could we be seeing what is said in Isaiah, Chapter 24 occurring? It seems to be in concert with Revelations, Chapter 8 and an asteroid impact. There's been a lot of talk about a comet called Elenin/Planet X/Niburu. I'm not sure if anyone has researched it or not, but if you have I'd like to hear what you've heard. Finding legitimate information on the subject is a bit of challenge.

 

[KtSlime]

Pristine_Condition: I have no problem if you want to believe in a deity because for some reason you believe there needed to be a creator to have started the Universe. My problem is with people that:

1) Want to teach creationism in school science classes
2) Do not understand a HUGE body of evidence to explain biological evolution and therefor call it a lie
3) Look to the Bible for a 2000 year old cosmological understanding of the Universe, when evidence clearly shows it to be wrong
4) Deny basic human rights to people with different sexual preferences/identities
5) Deny females the right to choose what happens to their bodies after being put in a bad situation
6) Deny scientists the ability to better understand life, and better create methods of helping people using stem cells
7) Force their beliefs on 3rd world countries so that people can receive aid.
9) Say that I can not possibly be a moral person because I do not believe in God.
10) Use fear and hate as a tool to train children
11) Kill other people in the name of their God
12) Refuse to educate children about sex and contraceptive.


I'm sure I could create a more exhaustive list, but these are the big ones. If you or anyone else believes in those things, I am unable to reconcile with them until they adopt a more rational approach to life. All of these actions are what is ruining the World, and specifically the United States.

Personal beliefs are great, heck I have some pretty neat ideas about the Universe, and some fun things to try with my time here, but the problem is, if you are calling yourself Christian and do NOT agree with these points that other Christians do, you are giving them free license to pedal these hateful, backwards, destructive beliefs. If you are calling yourself Christian and DO follow these points, then I think you need to re-evaluate your beliefs, because the future you are creating promoting this ideology will destroy humanity - and that's to be expected from a bunch of people that think life is just a stepping stone to the afterlife, and who long for the rapture to occur.

 

[JCRedeems]

I don't know about the alignment of planets and all that but I know these are signs Jesus spoke about before he returns - that there would be Earthquakes in various places and the sea would roar.

I believe this is the last generation. The rebirth of Israel and the return of Jews to Israel after 1900+ years is pretty amazing. What's even more amazing that it was prophesied in the Bible (Isaiah 43:5-6). Israel had to be re-established for prophecy to come to pass. It is also prophesied that the third temple would be rebuilt which they are in the planning stages to build now. It also prophesied that many nations will rise against Israel before Jesus return and the world would focus on Jerusalem and it would be a burdensome stone to the world. We all know that the surrounding Muslim nations want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth so that's not unbelievable. The prophecy of Zechariah Chapter 12 was written approximately 2500 years ago predicting a future day when the world’s focus would be on Jerusalem:

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”

“And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Pristine_Condition: I have no problem if you want to believe in a deity because for some reason you believe there needed to be a creator to have started the Universe.

Well, considering I never said that, and you just made that story up, that's fucking great.

My problem is with people that:

1) Want to teach creationism in school science classes
2) Do not understand a HUGE body of evidence to explain biological evolution and therefor call it a lie
3) Look to the Bible for a 2000 year old cosmological understanding of the Universe, when evidence clearly shows it to be wrong
4) Deny basic human rights to people with different sexual preferences/identities
5) Deny females the right to choose what happens to their bodies after being put in a bad situation
6) Deny scientists the ability to better understand life, and better create methods of helping people using stem cells
7) Force their beliefs on 3rd world countries so that people can receive aid.
9) Say that I can not possibly be a moral person because I do not believe in God.
10) Use fear and hate as a tool to train children
11) Kill other people in the name of their God
12) Refuse to educate children about sex and contraceptive.


I'm sure I could create a more exhaustive list, but these are the big ones. If you or anyone else believes in those things, I am unable to reconcile with them until they adopt a more rational approach to life. All of these actions are what is ruining the World, and specifically the United States.

Personal beliefs are great, heck I have some pretty neat ideas about the Universe, and some fun things to try with my time here, but the problem is, if you are calling yourself Christian and do NOT agree with these points that other Christians do, you are giving them free license to pedal these hateful, backwards, destructive beliefs.

So, I'm assuming you are in the official Islam thread telling all of them that they need to distance themselves from them evil terrrrrrrists?

Because I have heard that stupid shit just recently in Congress...

If you are calling yourself Christian and DO follow these points, then I think you need to re-evaluate your beliefs, because the future you are creating promoting this ideology will destroy humanity - and that's to be expected from a bunch of people that think life is just a stepping stone to the afterlife, and who long for the rapture to occur.

Yeah. I'm really looking forward to your similar post in the Islam thread.

Otherwise, I'll assume you are a simple you are a hypocrite and an anti-Christian bigot who blames an entire religion for the various individual actions of individuals.

Fuck, and AtheistGAF constantly complains about Christians being nosy and preachy...WTF was THAT?

Oh, so YOU think I need to re-evaluate MY beliefs? Gee. That's rich.

How about you stop telling me what to do like some sort of dictator? Because you are sounding like quite the jackass.

 

[threenote]

Well, considering I never said that, and you just made that story up, that's fucking great.



So, I'm assuming you are in the official Islam thread telling all of them that they need to distance themselves from them evil terrrrrrrists?

Because I have heard that stupid shit just recently in Congress...




Yeah. I'm really looking forward to your similar post in the Islam thread.

Otherwise, I'll assume you are a simple you are a hypocrite and an anti-Christian bigot who blames an entire religion for the various individual actions of individuals.

Fuck, and AtheistGAF constantly complains about Christians being nosy and preachy...WTF was THAT?

Oh, so YOU think I need to re-evaluate MY beliefs? Gee. That's rich.

How about you stop telling me what to do like some sort of dictator? Because you are sounding like quite the jackass.

Take it easy with the bolding, chief. GAF isn't a comic book.

 

[raphier]

I had once an aunt who was orthodox and preaching believer. Then she got cancer, prayed for forgiveness and died.
And me? I refused to pay the church and now I can't baptize my child in a Christian church. How fair is that, people?


And then I stopped believing and guess what, I feel better this way. I am no longer a slave.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Take it easy with the bolding, chief. GAF isn't a comic book.

Yeah. Sorry about those two words I bolded.

Oh sh... i did it again!

 

[Snuggles]

I hope you realize you were responding to a guy named 'ivedoneyourmom'

the screen name alone is good enough reason to disregard him

 

[Shanadeus]

I don't know about the alignment of planets and all that but I know these are signs Jesus spoke about before he returns - that there would be Earthquakes in various places and the sea would roar.

I believe this is the last generation. The rebirth of Israel and the return of Jews to Israel after 1900+ years is pretty amazing. What's even more amazing that it was prophesied in the Bible (Isaiah 43:5-6). Israel had to be re-established for prophecy to come to pass. It is also prophesied that the third temple would be rebuilt which they are in the planning stages to build now. It also prophesied that many nations will rise against Israel before Jesus return and the world would focus on Jerusalem and it would be a burdensome stone to the world. We all know that the surrounding Muslim nations want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth so that's not unbelievable. The prophecy of Zechariah Chapter 12 was written approximately 2500 years ago predicting a future day when the world’s focus would be on Jerusalem:

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”

“And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

When exactly is this last generation?
Because new children are being born every day, month and year.

I for one am curious to see the reaction of those that interpret the bible literally when Jerusalim is destroyed or whatever it is that's prophesied and nothing out of this world happen.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I hope you realize you were responding to a guy named 'ivedoneyourmom'

the screen name alone is good enough reason to disregard him

Yeah, snugs. He's a troll. I get it.

Is he friends with the management or something?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

bristling post full of bristling

how about you actually counter his argument rather than drawing shallow and unsubstantiated claims of anti-Christian agendas.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

how about you actually counter his argument rather than drawing shallow and unsubstantiated claims of anti-Christian agendas.

How about you read the many many replies I've already devoted to this guy? I'm going to bed.

Go ahead and tear it up, dood.

 

[KtSlime]

Well, considering I never said that, and you just made that story up, that's fucking great.



So, I'm assuming you are in the official Islam thread telling all of them that they need to distance themselves from them evil terrrrrrrists?

Because I have heard that stupid shit just recently in Congress…

Yeah. I'm really looking forward to your similar post in the Islam thread.

Otherwise, I'll assume you are a simple you are a hypocrite and an anti-Christian bigot who blames an entire religion for the various individual actions of individuals.

Fuck, and AtheistGAF constantly complains about Christians being nosy and preachy...WTF was THAT?

Oh, so YOU think I need to re-evaluate MY beliefs? Gee. That's rich.

How about you stop telling me what to do like some sort of dictator? Because you are sounding like quite the jackass.

It doesn't matter if you believe in Christ, Lord Xnu, the Illuminati, ghosts, or alien abductions; if you do not have sufficient evidence outside of 'testimony', it is probably not a good idea to build a belief system from, and definitely not something I want affecting politics.

I think Islam is wrong too, I subscribe to Sam Harris' thoughts on the subject and believe that as a religion it is more prone to terrorism. However I do not know enough about Islam to counter their arguments, and what I DO know of Islam tells me that it is much harder to sway a believer because of the inability to pick and choose passages from the Quran, the need to be PC because of their station as a misunderstood minority, and the fact that Muhammad has contradicting points listed, where the correct point is the later revelation but the book itself is not in a chronological order.

I feel that most Christians are SO close to reaching this point of tolerance and understanding, and almost to the point where they don't need to go spreading bronze age tales, or stories of eternal damnation. It upsets me when people talk about the wars in the middle east and the earthquake in Japan and take that as evidence of the impending rapture. And it will upset me when it does not come to fruition and people will just come up with lame excuses as to why they misinterpreted the signs of the prophecy, and "Don't worry, it will come eventually" like they have been for the past 2000 years.

If you impinge on the rights of females, the rights of homosexuals, the rights of children who need an proper education founded on science and skepticism; you are wrong, and I am not being a dictator to tell you such. Would you be a dictator if you told your child to not put a fork into an electrical socket? Would you be a dictator if you told off a gang of people beating up a person of a different ethnicity, or any person at all? I think not.

I am not telling you these things because we have differing opinions about religion, I am telling you this because you need to be shown a better, a more correct view of reality. I don't claim to know the answers, but I KNOW that the answers are probably not from people 2000 years ago that didn't even know that the Earth was round, let alone know the number of continents on the planet. Sure, it might be good to read and gain some insight from stories, but the same can be said for modern TV shows, the Odyssey, eastern philosophy, etc - but you wouldn't take them as the literal word of God like you seem to with the Bible, and that's what makes you, and people that look for morality external to humans dangerous.

 

[JCRedeems]

When exactly is this last generation?
Because new children are being born every day, month and year.

I for one am curious to see the reaction of those that interpret the bible literally when Jerusalim is destroyed or whatever it is that's prophesied and nothing out of this world happen.

A full generation represents a period of 70 years (Ps. 90:10). Of course there are various interpretations to what comprises a generation in the context of scripture. But I think it is agreed by many that the generation alive when Israel was reborn will see Christ return.

Jesus said "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things are fulfilled" (Luke 21:25:32).

The fig tree symbolically represents Israel. The FIG-TREE in the Old Testament refers to Israel in Jeremiah 5: 17, Hosea 2: 12, Amos 4: 9. Jesus was here probably referring to the nation of Israel, which had been barren following the siege of Jerusalem in AD70.

So Jesus was likely saying that when you see ISRAEL re-blooming, whenever that would take place, that that generation would be the one that would be on the earth and living when the Last Days would occur.

What's also interesting is that nations that try to divide the land of Israel a lot of times face a huge natural disaster, many times within 24 hours from doing it. Watch this and this. Please watch all parts.

That said, woe to all nations who rise against Israel.

 

[abcderik]

If you are a Christian, does it perhaps feel a bit awkward to worship a deity who murdered all first born children of an entire country?

 

[OttomanScribe]

I told ya so.

 

[Shanadeus]

A full generation represents a period of 70 years (Ps. 90:10). Of course there are various interpretations to what comprises a generation in the context of scripture. But I think it is agreed by many that the generation alive when Israel was reborn will see Christ return.

Jesus said "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things are fulfilled" (Luke 21:25:32).

The fig tree symbolically represents Israel. The FIG-TREE in the Old Testament refers to Israel in Jeremiah 5: 17, Hosea 2: 12, Amos 4: 9. Jesus was here probably referring to the nation of Israel, which had been barren following the siege of Jerusalem in AD70.

So Jesus was likely saying that when you see ISRAEL re-blooming, whenever that would take place, that that generation would be the one that would be on the earth and living when the Last Days would occur.

What's also interesting is that nations that try to divide the land of Israel a lot of times face a huge natural disaster, many times within 24 hours from doing it. Watch this and this. Please watch all parts.

That said, woe to all nations who rise against Israel.

This is an amazing study on how hurricanes, earthquakes, fires, floods, and many more horrible judgments are seen in our country all within 24 hours of our leaders forcing Israel to go against God's promised land.

Confirmation bias:

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.[Note 1][1] As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way.

I too could claim that whenever I fart there'll be a hurricane, earthquake, fire, flood or some other horrible man-made/natural-disaster within the next 24 hours.

Anyway I will be alive until 2090 at the very least so we'll see if any Last Days will occur after 2018 (when it'll have gone 70 years after the creation of Israel in 1948).

I doubt anything will happen though.

 

[KtSlime]

Anyway I will be alive until 2090 at the very least so we'll see if any Last Days will occur after 2018 (when it'll have gone 70 years after the creation of Israel in 1948).

I doubt anything will happen though.

If nothing happens, they'll just push back the date, like they always do. They'll say something like the Jews broke a covenant, or that the new state of Israel is false because it still contains Muslims or something.

 

[JGS]

If you are a Christian, does it perhaps feel a bit awkward to worship a deity who murdered all first born children of an entire country?

Nope

 

[threenote]

Anyway I will be alive until 2090 at the very least

Oh, man. :lol :lol

 

[Parl]

This thread makes my brain hurt. We've got people naively thinking that reason and logic are the best way to debate people who came to conclusions via different methods, and we've got the reminder that some people came to conclusions via said different methods.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If you are a Christian, does it perhaps feel a bit awkward to worship a deity who murdered all first born children of an entire country?

No.

 

[KtSlime]

Oh, man. :lol :lol

In developed countries, the number of centenarians is increasing at approximately 7% per year, which means doubling the centenarian population every decade, pushing it from some 455,000 in 2009 to 4.1 million in 2050.[38] Japan is the country with the highest ratio of centenarians (347 for every 1 million inhabitants in September 2010). Shimane prefecture had an estimated 743 centenarians per million inhabitants.[39]
In the United States, the number of centenarians grew from 32,194 in 1980 to 71,944 in November 2010 (232 centenarians per million inhabitants).

That is if he doesn't die in the war of good vs evil after the second coming, or something.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I don't know about the alignment of planets and all that but I know these are signs Jesus spoke about before he returns - that there would be Earthquakes in various places and the sea would roar.

I believe this is the last generation. The rebirth of Israel and the return of Jews to Israel after 1900+ years is pretty amazing. What's even more amazing that it was prophesied in the Bible (Isaiah 43:5-6). Israel had to be re-established for prophecy to come to pass. It is also prophesied that the third temple would be rebuilt which they are in the planning stages to build now. It also prophesied that many nations will rise against Israel before Jesus return and the world would focus on Jerusalem and it would be a burdensome stone to the world. We all know that the surrounding Muslim nations want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth so that's not unbelievable. The prophecy of Zechariah Chapter 12 was written approximately 2500 years ago predicting a future day when the world’s focus would be on Jerusalem:

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”

“And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

I think it's fucking disgraceful that you're claiming the Japanese Earthquake (and possibly thousands of deaths) is the divine return of Jesus and the coming rapture, this shit shows how warped your perception is. Pathetic...

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Well... I decided to create this thread for all the Christians here on the forum. As you guys know, being a Christian here at GAF can be sometimes a little bit hard. There seems to be a predominat atheist population here at the forum. This thread is not created to discuss the existence of God. I respect Atheist-GAF, and I promise, I will never make a bad comment about you guys, and I will never try to convince you about what I believe. And I ask you the same kind of respect, please.

Thread instructions taken from the OP. 11 pages and this thread has hit the dust already. Now that's pathetic. Face it, those of you who aren't Theists/whatever - some people are just going to believe things you find weird.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Thread instructions taken from the OP. 11 pages and this thread has hit the dust already. Now that's pathetic.

I think it's more sad that it reflects tons of bad experiences for so many people here. It speaks to the state of Christianity, IMO. People who are interested in Christianity aren't being encouraged to really seek Christ, study in any meaningful amount, or understand their faith any deeper than they did on their first day.

Christianity is ruining people who would have otherwise sought and found Christ. People come hungry, looking for promises of spiritual bread to eat only to find empty cupboards. You can only fool people so many times...then they'll start assuming that everyone is lying about having "bread".

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

The Bible is clear that all children go to heaven (until they have reached the age of accountability).

Sorry, I'm a Christian and the Bible says no such thing.

Edit: that's not to try and debate about this specific topic, but it irks me that Christians are often as ignorant about what the sacred text says as anyone they're trying to debate with.

 

[JGS]

I think it's more sad that it reflects tons of bad experiences for so many people here. It speaks to the state of Christianity, IMO. People who are interested in Christianity aren't being encouraged to really seek Christ, study in any meaningful amount, or understand their faith any deeper than they did on their first day.

Christianity is ruining people who would have otherwise sought and found Christ. People come hungry, looking for promises of spiritual bread to eat only to find empty cupboards. You can only fool people so many times...then they'll start assuming that everyone is lying about having "bread".

That's not the fault of the messenger.

Quite frankly, there's no reason to to spend an inordinate amount of time specifically trying to ruin a thread that was clearly set up for peaceful intentions.

It's even equally sad when the place to gripe and complain about the "lies" of Christians (Like the truth would make them feel better lol) is on the board too as well as a new religion is evil thread every hour. (EDIT- The official link is here...again http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389221)

Time for some Gaf atheists to accept the fact that they are partycrashers and warmongers which is fine with me since I've known it all along, but I imagine not fine with the OP.

However, it's extremely dishonest to suggest that the harshness was not directly caused by non-believers and that the religious are the ones who started it. Like the other poster said, it really is pathetic. That should be plain to see from the most jaded skeptic.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That's not the fault of the messenger.

sometimes it is, my friend.

As Paul so succintly wrote, "The name of our Lord is blasphemed among the [unbelievers] because of you."
Romans 2:24, IIRC.

I've seen so many dry, stale churches teaching dry, stale and often incorrect messages to parishioners who have become little more than automatons. More happy to show off their new outfit and go through the rituals than anything else. Never seeking a deeper relationship. Never getting closer. Content to just kinda...live and seek forgiveness for messing up...rinse and repeat. Looking at them, you mine as well assume that the Gospel has no real power. That the renewed mind is a myth Paul and James were just kidding about. That salvation simply becomes a "get out of Hell FREE" card to be kept in your pocket for Judgment Day but otherwise has no real relevance in your life.

That's the impression so many churches give off. Wrong in substance, delivery, relevance, and power. So how can we be surprised that people give up on The Church?

Best thing they can be told is that Christianity is about relationship, not religion in the first place, defaulting to gratuitous and embarrassing amounts of ritualistic activities that do not help anyone but the organization itself. And so most churches fail to communicate even that basic message. Understand, His Ambassadors bare major responsibility. Not for every case, no. But it's really indisputable that many churches--even whole denominations--have abjectly failed their members and surrounding communities.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I think it's more sad that it reflects tons of bad experiences for so many people here. It speaks to the state of Christianity, IMO. People who are interested in Christianity aren't being encouraged to really seek Christ, study in any meaningful amount, or understand their faith any deeper than they did on their first day.

Christianity is ruining people who would have otherwise sought and found Christ. People come hungry, looking for promises of spiritual bread to eat only to find empty cupboards. You can only fool people so many times...then they'll start assuming that everyone is lying about having "bread".

Amazingly insightful, quite honestly. Not the kind of acumen I would normally expect in a post around here

A lot of what poses as biblical knowledge really isn't, and a lot of what poses as Christianity has nothing to do with its namesake. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians simply don't have adequate training and/or the wisdom to know they don't have adequate training.

For instance, the very morning of 9/11/2001 there were Christian "leaders" in America who were quick to point out how we had lost our way, morally, and that the attacks on Americans were God's judgment on that waywardness. This is a fundamentally flawed misconception and damaging to Christianity's namesake in at least two different ways:

1. It assumes that they knew God's purposes in "allowing" those attacks, or what have you. That's folly.

2. It lacked any notion of compassion, something I think Christians should know a great deal about given their claims about forgiveness of debts and sins.

3. There is a misconception in many forms of fundamentalism that the The United States of America has a different relationship or "mandate" from God than every other nation; that it's somehow special. There has only been one theocracy, from a Judeo-Christian perspective, ever, and it is not us.

 

[jaxword]

No.

Why not?

 

[manueldelalas]

Pristine_Condition: I have no problem if you want to believe in a deity because for some reason you believe there needed to be a creator to have started the Universe. My problem is with people that:

1) Want to teach creationism in school science classes
2) Do not understand a HUGE body of evidence to explain biological evolution and therefor call it a lie
3) Look to the Bible for a 2000 year old cosmological understanding of the Universe, when evidence clearly shows it to be wrong
4) Deny basic human rights to people with different sexual preferences/identities
5) Deny females the right to choose what happens to their bodies after being put in a bad situation
6) Deny scientists the ability to better understand life, and better create methods of helping people using stem cells
7) Force their beliefs on 3rd world countries so that people can receive aid.
9) Say that I can not possibly be a moral person because I do not believe in God.
10) Use fear and hate as a tool to train children
11) Kill other people in the name of their God
12) Refuse to educate children about sex and contraceptive.

1) They are defending their right to teach what was teached to them by their ancestors to their sons.
2) You don't understand that there is not absolute nor definitive evidence to explain biological evolution, and you call what they teach a lie.
3) What is wrong with the biblical conception of the universe? There isn't even proof that the Earth isn't in the center of it (since it's apparently infinite, so you can put the center wherever the fuck you like).
4) What basic rights??? are they not allowed to eat, to pee, to live? Or are you talking about not being allowed to be married, which by DEFINITION is a thing of man and woman.
5) They deny a law to KILL a no born son.
6) They deny scientist to experiment with LIVE HUMAN BEINGS.
7) Not true.
9) Not true.
10) Not true.
11) Not true.
12) Not true.

I'm no creationist myself, and I believe in the theory of evolution, but there is a huge and fundamental flaw in your whole argument.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Sorry, I'm a Christian and the Bible says no such thing.

Edit: that's not to try and debate about this specific topic, but it irks me that Christians are often as ignorant about what the sacred text says as anyone they're trying to debate with.

Can you go into more detail? I've heard Judaism/Islam express that you are judged after you mature and not before? I've also heard many learned Christians cite that children below the age of maturity are innocent irrespective. I'd be interested to know your understanding of these arguments and where they are going wrong. There are many things religious text don't say out right, but interpretation of verses are also applied when determining doctrine. So I'm wondering privately if you've come to that conclusion based on a lack a line of text that specifically verifies the above, or whether its based interpreting various lines.

 

[jaxword]

4) What basic rights??? are they not allowed to eat, to pee, to live? Or are you talking about not being allowed to be married, which by DEFINITION is a thing of man and woman.

Who defines it?

 

[PoliceCop]

How many people in this thread believe the garden of Eden story?

 

[kinggroin]

I told ya so.

Ahahaha, seriously. I blame acebandage more than I do atheist GAF

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Judging by his name and the fact that 3 of his 7 total posts are in this thread, I'm pretty sure JCRedeems registered at GAF for the sole purpose of preaching.

 

[jaxword]

Judging by his name and the fact that 3 of his 7 total posts are in this thread, I'm pretty sure JCRedeems registered at GAF for the sole purpose of preaching.

He strangely appeared after another guy was banned for spamming the evolution thread with copypastes.

 

[Corto]

Just to punch in... I'm a Catholic. And also to recommend an excellent book from Hans Kung.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Can you go into more detail? I've heard Judaism/Islam express that you are judged after you mature and not before? I've also heard many learned Christians cite that children below the age of maturity are innocent irrespective. I'd be interested to know your understanding of these arguments and where they are going wrong. There are many things religious text don't say out right, but interpretation of verses are also applied when determining doctrine. So I'm wondering privately if you've come to that conclusion based on a lack a line of text that specifically verifies the above, or whether its based interpreting various lines.

The bible is markedly silent on the topic. You will find some who disagree, I'm sure. The "age of accountability" doctrine is an inference from texts that I do not believe say what proponents of that doctrine claim they do. Texts like Romans 7, for instance.

Personally, my belief is that God is, at the end of the day, fair and that I hope his justice (which caries an implicit idea of fairness) means that our little ones who have died will see their way into his arms. However, this is my hope based on the summation of what I believe about God, not something that I would stake my soul against.

 

[kinggroin]

sometimes it is, my friend.

As Paul so succintly wrote, "The name of our Lord is blasphemed among the [unbelievers] because of you."
Romans 2:24, IIRC.

I've seen so many dry, stale churches teaching dry, stale and often incorrect messages to parishioners who have become little more than automatons. More happy to show off their new outfit and go through the rituals than anything else. Never seeking a deeper relationship. Never getting closer. Content to just kinda...live and seek forgiveness for messing up...rinse and repeat. Looking at them, you mine as well assume that the Gospel has no real power. That the renewed mind is a myth Paul and James were just kidding about. That salvation simply becomes a "get out of Hell FREE" card to be kept in your pocket for Judgment Day but otherwise has no real relevance in your life.

That's the impression so many churches give off. Wrong in substance, delivery, relevance, and power. So how can we be surprised that people give up on The Church?

Best thing they can be told is that Christianity is about relationship, not religion in the first place, defaulting to gratuitous and embarrassing amounts of ritualistic activities that do not help anyone but the organization itself. And so most churches fail to communicate even that basic message. Understand, His Ambassadors bare major responsibility. Not for every case, no. But it's really indisputable that many churches--even whole denominations--have abjectly failed their members and surrounding communities.

Dreams, what would you recommend a new Christian do to better build his/her relationship with christ?You're right that, at the end of the day, its where we stand we with Jesus/God. So then, again, what do you recommend?

 

[Seth C]

If you are a Christian, does it perhaps feel a bit awkward to worship a deity who murdered all first born children of an entire country?

I don't know. Perhaps you should ask the Jews and the Muslims?

 

[Seda]

Didn't see this earlier. Hopefully this thread stays civil. I am a non-denominational Christian.

God is good.

 

[PoliceCop]

The bible is markedly silent on the topic. You will find some who disagree, I'm sure. The "age of accountability" doctrine is an inference from texts that I do not believe say what proponents of that doctrine claim they do. Texts like Romans 7, for instance.

Personally, my belief is that God is, at the end of the day, fair and that I hope his justice (which caries an implicit idea of fairness) means that our little ones who have died will see their way into his arms. However, this is my hope based on the summation of what I believe about God, not something that I would stake my soul against.

Holy shit man you shut Game Analyst the fuck up.

-Policecop

 

[WillyFive]

I don't know. Perhaps you should ask the Jews and the Muslims?

It's the same God though.

The same God also promises Armageddon in the New Testament.

 

[Seth C]

It's the same God though.

The same God also promises Armageddon in the New Testament.

So why is he so interested in how Christians feel about it but hasn't gone to ask the same thing in the Islam thread? Oh I know, it's because he has a bone to pick and thought he had a witty comment to make fun of Christians with.

 

[PoliceCop]

So why is he so interested in how Christians feel about it but hasn't gone to ask the same thing in the Islam thread? Oh I know, it's because he has a bone to pick and thought he had a witty comment to make fun of Christians with.

You could just answer the question instead of deferring it to people of other religions. It's a legitimate issue to raise.

 

[jaxword]

So why is he so interested in how Christians feel about it but hasn't gone to ask the same thing in the Islam thread? Oh I know, it's because he has a bone to pick and thought he had a witty comment to make fun of Christians with.

Not to defend the guy, as I have no idea of his motives, but if he's like the majority of posters, he's probably American and likely the main religion he's been exposed to is Christianity either via family or peers, like all of us.

It's probably not the atheist-rage you're making it out to be, he probably just doesn't have the exposure and knowledge to start questioning Islam or Judaism.


I was raised Christian and it's a question I've not found a non-disturbing answer for.