ServBotPhil
Member
Was he banned because of copyright issues?
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Christianity |OT| The official thread of hope, faith and infinite love.
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SquiddyCracker
Banned
So when I'm not on BatGAF or Gaming Side, I'm a Christian apologist myself. Not a very good one, as my studies permit since I'm still in High School and have a ton and a half to worry about, but that's no excuse. I'm just wondering who the apologists on this board are. Would love to get some advice.
It's awesome to see people getting into apologetics while in high school. I could have spared myself a lot of pain had I known about it at that age! Like so many people, I was terrified that if I started asking the difficult questions, my faith would be shattered like a fragile vase. Ironically, as I started asking and researching the questions, I found the opposite was true. The deeper I dug, the wider and stronger the Christian foundation became. I learned that when something is objectively true, you can't ask a question that will make it untrue, and that there will always be a trail of evidence that leads you to that truth.
Because the western culture typically doesn't ask questions or attempt to substantiate the Christian faith in many churches, we are developing a Christian culture that is adopting contradictory ideals as people profess to have a saving faith, yet lead lives that are indistinguishable from those who are not saved. The culture around us sees it for what it is, hypocrisy. Most of my 20's was spent living like this. Apologetics is so vital, not because it will bring a person to faith, but because it will allow someone to consider it in the first place, in addition to strengthening the foundation of our own faith.
Keep plugging away at it! But never forget, our minds must be balanced with our hearts. Too much head knowledge and a lack of hear to accompany it turns us into Pharisees. Too much heart and not enough head knowledge leads to a shallow faith that can quickly turn to heretical practices. And always remember, apologetics is meant to supplement the gospel, not replace it. God bless you, brother!
Sweet, yeah I went through a deep time of agnosticism and atheism during my freshman year, and decided to see if Christianity held any weight. Mostly, this website godandscience.org is what helped convinced me, along with the apologetic works of William Lane Craig among others.
Hi there everyone 
Don't think I'll be posting in here much (I just talk games here) but I just want you all to know that I support all of you. It definitely feels a bit tough being a Christian here, so I tend to stay out of most controversial topics.
I'll definitely show up every now and again to say hello to my fellow GAF Christians.
Don't think I'll be posting in here much (I just talk games here
) but I just want you all to know that I support all of you. It definitely feels a bit tough being a Christian here, so I tend to stay out of most controversial topics. I'll definitely show up every now and again to say hello to my fellow GAF Christians.
what does 'apologetics' mean to you guys? i've heard the phrase, but i have never really looked into it to much. i checked the wiki entry and i guess i understand what it is, but its more than just knowing how to win arguments about Christianity, right? the only book i have read at this point that i think would qualify for this subject is 'the screwtape letters', which really opened my eyes to ways that 'the world' would try to keep me separated from god and keep me from following the teachings of jesus. it wound up helping me quite a bit. it does get difficult to read at times.
William Lane Craig is pretty amazing. I'm currently reading his book Reasonable Faith. I also like Jim Warner Wallace (pleaseconvinceme.com), and Greg Kokul at Stand To Reason, and of course Ravi Zacharias.
Apologetics is a defensive of the faith, and seeks to demonstrate the truth of the Christian faith. It shouldn't be used as a means to "win" arguments, but a a means to bring people to Christ. Often times we are just planting a seed in someone, or working the soil in their heart. It's about winning souls, not debates (something that can be easily forgotten as we increasingly become more equipped to defend the faith). The Holy Spirit testifies to the truth of Christ; apologetics demonstrates why it's true. For example, if we were talking about the existence of God, we could discuss the cosmological, teleological, and moral arguments. If we were discussing the validity of the Bible, we could explore the historicity of the Bible, etc. It's always extremely tempting to use the knowledge we have gained as a weapon and club people over the head with it, but that is contrary to how we are to live as followers of Christ.
but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, -- 1 Peter 3:15
Above all else, we are to be ambassadors of Christ, and our lives and disposition should reflect him in all that we do. We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves. When engaging with a non-believer, we need to consistently call on the Lord to ensure that we are acting in love, and not according to our flesh (and it is extremely easy to let the flesh sneak in and take over!).
Feel free to join in!
Speaking of, has anyone heard big daddy weave's new album? I love their new sound!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnQE7pbmI6o
http://www.fivethingsgoduses.com/
we have been following this series in our college-age ministry at my church the last 3 weeks, its been a pretty good experience for everyone. its crazy that the whole thing is basically free online, although the videos are basically an entire service and we wind up cutting out around 15-20 minutes to keep things moving so we can do small group discussion and the whole thing will last just over an hour.
this weeks session was 'providential relationships' and it was interesting how it varied for different people. for people who were saved later in life (27 for me) relationships were a huge huge deal. if it wasnt for the people that i came into the church with and developed friendships with that replaced a lot of my old ways, i dont know how i could have every completely changed. for people that grew up in church that have been committed christians their entire life, it was more about a few people or instances that might have made them recommit their faith or brought them into a group of friends in a church that they could relate to. there are so many times that i ran into christians that i couldnt relate to (judgmental, hyper conservative, aggressive to other views) and that kept me AWAY from the faith, so when i finally met someone who would just listen and discuss with me in a civilized way and was more guiding than pushing... well, that was exactly what i needed.
just wanted to share the series since its been good for our church and it might be useful for others.
we have been following this series in our college-age ministry at my church the last 3 weeks, its been a pretty good experience for everyone. its crazy that the whole thing is basically free online, although the videos are basically an entire service and we wind up cutting out around 15-20 minutes to keep things moving so we can do small group discussion and the whole thing will last just over an hour.
this weeks session was 'providential relationships' and it was interesting how it varied for different people. for people who were saved later in life (27 for me) relationships were a huge huge deal. if it wasnt for the people that i came into the church with and developed friendships with that replaced a lot of my old ways, i dont know how i could have every completely changed. for people that grew up in church that have been committed christians their entire life, it was more about a few people or instances that might have made them recommit their faith or brought them into a group of friends in a church that they could relate to. there are so many times that i ran into christians that i couldnt relate to (judgmental, hyper conservative, aggressive to other views) and that kept me AWAY from the faith, so when i finally met someone who would just listen and discuss with me in a civilized way and was more guiding than pushing... well, that was exactly what i needed.
just wanted to share the series since its been good for our church and it might be useful for others.
Meus Renaissance
Member
I came across an article on Al-Jazeera that criticised US Christian groups "exporting" anti-gay principles into African politics. Those groups claim they are defending the Christian faith in Christian countries.
One of the comments on the site caught my attention however.
Some agreed whereas others did not.
Assuming some do not share the belief, lets assume for arguments sake that homosexuality is a sin. How do you as a Christian treat it therefore? Do you have a moral obligation to oppose it politically or is that extremism? And why is there such a sharp divide?
One of the comments on the site caught my attention however.
The Bible (both Jewish and Christian) as well as Quran declare homosexuality a sin, like it or not. There is no difference in this respect between the 3 great monotheistic religions. Evangelicals therefore have little choice: they must be either politically correct hypocrites or they should teach and preach what they believe in. Evangelicals were always anti-gay except for some "liberated" ministers here and there like Americans Ted Haggard and Richard Cizik, British Jeffrey John (Church of England), Canadian Gary Paterson, (Church of Canada), et cetera. However, the overwhelming majority of evangelicals remain openly anti-gay, as they should be if they call themselves "evangelicals". By the way Jesus repeated word by word the 10 commandments from the Jewish Bible (Torah and Tanakh) including ban on homosexuality.
Some agreed whereas others did not.
These people are not conservative Christians; they are extremists.
Assuming some do not share the belief, lets assume for arguments sake that homosexuality is a sin. How do you as a Christian treat it therefore? Do you have a moral obligation to oppose it politically or is that extremism? And why is there such a sharp divide?
Disclaimer: I am dumb and do not know much of anything. But this is how I feel about homosexuality and Christianity.
I personally believe it is not our place to judge others sexual orientation or condemn anyone for such things.
I would follow Jesus' example and show everyone love. I feel others' sexual orientation doesn't even matter to Christians. Just let the love of Jesus shine through you. That's it. Stop trying to police the world. That will be God's job when the time comes.
All this anti-gay stuff is doing is ruining the Christian name. You can see it everywhere now. The hatred for Christianity is growing because a lot of people see us as hateful hypocrites. Is this what Jesus would've liked the church to look like?
We don't need to condone sin, but we absolutely can not be hateful and unaccepting of people who do sin. We are sinners too.
There is no "degrees of sin". You kill someone or you stole a dollar. It doesn't matter. It was a sin and you're no longer worthy - except through Christ. So stop acting like "being gay" is a huge sin and so you have the right to put people down. That is hypocrisy. And I hate it when people do such things in the name of God.
Jesus showed love and spent much of his time associating with sinners. It is damaging to Christianity to sit in our "perfect and sinless churches" hurling hateful speech at everyone outside.
To be honest, it really feels like a lot of Christians are no different from the Pharisees in Jesus' time.
To non-Christians, our faith is no longer defined by Love - in fact, it is defined by Hate. Is this what Jesus wants?
John 8:7 said:
Matthew 7:1-2 said:
I personally believe it is not our place to judge others sexual orientation or condemn anyone for such things.
I would follow Jesus' example and show everyone love. I feel others' sexual orientation doesn't even matter to Christians. Just let the love of Jesus shine through you. That's it. Stop trying to police the world. That will be God's job when the time comes.
All this anti-gay stuff is doing is ruining the Christian name. You can see it everywhere now. The hatred for Christianity is growing because a lot of people see us as hateful hypocrites. Is this what Jesus would've liked the church to look like?
We don't need to condone sin, but we absolutely can not be hateful and unaccepting of people who do sin. We are sinners too.
There is no "degrees of sin". You kill someone or you stole a dollar. It doesn't matter. It was a sin and you're no longer worthy - except through Christ. So stop acting like "being gay" is a huge sin and so you have the right to put people down. That is hypocrisy. And I hate it when people do such things in the name of God.
Jesus showed love and spent much of his time associating with sinners. It is damaging to Christianity to sit in our "perfect and sinless churches" hurling hateful speech at everyone outside.
To be honest, it really feels like a lot of Christians are no different from the Pharisees in Jesus' time.
To non-Christians, our faith is no longer defined by Love - in fact, it is defined by Hate. Is this what Jesus wants?
you'd have a hard time convincing most christians that homosexuality is NOT a sin. it is pretty explicitly laid out in the bible. in the passage you refer to, when everyone leaves and only the woman and jesus remains, he says '... go, and from now on sin no more.'
i cant explain why some christians are consumed by a fear/hate of homosexuality. it is no more of a sin than adultery, stealing, lying, greed, and yet it seems to come to the forefront of the discussion more than anything else. i suppose the reason is simply that many in the world do not view homosexuality is wrong, but many (oftentimes religious) do.
i agree in showing love for everyone, and that is something i strive to do every day. however, dont expect christians to change their beliefs on something like 'is homosexuality wrong'. all the arguments about gay marriage seem moot to me- i can say that my church would never marry two people of the same sex, but that is MY church, and we dont speak for the entirety of the state i live in. if a state wishes to allow it, then fine.
as far as the question below- do you have a moral obligation to oppose it politically- i dont think that the purpose of the church was to push any sort of political agenda. what all these anti-gay protestors are doing doesnt bring people do towards god IMO, and that should be the real goal of all christians- to help people be saved.
i cant explain why some christians are consumed by a fear/hate of homosexuality. it is no more of a sin than adultery, stealing, lying, greed, and yet it seems to come to the forefront of the discussion more than anything else. i suppose the reason is simply that many in the world do not view homosexuality is wrong, but many (oftentimes religious) do.
i agree in showing love for everyone, and that is something i strive to do every day. however, dont expect christians to change their beliefs on something like 'is homosexuality wrong'. all the arguments about gay marriage seem moot to me- i can say that my church would never marry two people of the same sex, but that is MY church, and we dont speak for the entirety of the state i live in. if a state wishes to allow it, then fine.
as far as the question below- do you have a moral obligation to oppose it politically- i dont think that the purpose of the church was to push any sort of political agenda. what all these anti-gay protestors are doing doesnt bring people do towards god IMO, and that should be the real goal of all christians- to help people be saved.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Odd question: if you were discussing the main difference between a traditional Bible-based Christian faith and the Catholic faith, what points would you bring up?
Essentially... making yourself idols? Praying to anyone but Jesus...? Etc.
Essentially... making yourself idols? Praying to anyone but Jesus...? Etc.
Vermillion
Banned
Not religious/Christian, but:
You are awesome for having a Larry Boy avatar.
And I'd say that the Catholic faith goes beyond what is seen in the Bible. There is more importance on non-Holy Trinity figures (Virgin Mary, for example), and there is the belief in confession removing your sins, instead of the only path to redemption being through Jesus -> God.
Something like that.
You are awesome for having a Larry Boy avatar.
And I'd say that the Catholic faith goes beyond what is seen in the Bible. There is more importance on non-Holy Trinity figures (Virgin Mary, for example), and there is the belief in confession removing your sins, instead of the only path to redemption being through Jesus -> God.
Something like that.
Chaplain
Member
You are more than welcome.
No. I got banned because I spoke out against polygamy from a Biblical perspective in a nonreligious thread.
Thanks bro.
There are a few differences:
Catholics: The pope is the head of the church.
Christians: Jesus is the head of the church.
Catholics: Theology comes from traditions and the Bible.
Christians: Theology only comes from the Bible.
Catholics: Salvation comes through Faith, Works, Baptism, and Grace.
Christians: Salvation comes through Faith only. Works are the result of true belief in Christ.
Catholics: The Catholic church is the only true church.
Christians: Anyone who is born again is by God's grace through faith is in God's church.
These are some of the differences between Catholic and Christian beliefs.
On a side note:
I uploaded some new sermons to my soundcloud page. All of them can be downloaded or stream for free:
1 John 1 - The Conditions of Fellowship (7.26.2012)
This sermon is for those that want to know if they are truly walking with God and... "We can't come to fellowship with God through philosophical speculation. We can't come to fellowship with God through intellectual education. We can't come to fellowship with God through drugs or entertainment. We can't come to fellowship with God through scientific investigation. We can only come to fellowship with God by dealing with your sin problem through the blood of Jesus. Sin is the hindrance to fellowship and the blood of Jesus, received by faith as the payment for our sin, solves the problem of sin and opens the way to fellowship with God."
Dan Finfrock - The Battle Over Truth (2 Timothy 3, 7.22.2012)
This sermon goes into how postmodernism has crept into the church (as seen in the latest fad known as the Emergent Church). Postmodernism basically says that the church should be following the culture. The Bible on the other hand teaches that God's people should be living in such a way that the culture gets drawn to God through His people. A lot of other subjects are discussed as well.
Genesis 23 - How to cope when we experience the death of a loved one
"After the death of his wife and daughter in separate car accidents, hear the fascinating story of how Jon Courson found peace that only God can provide in our most difficult times."
Amir Tsarfati - Current events in the Middle East in regards to Bible Prophecy (7.19.2012)
Why life is empty and people want to escape - Searching for the meaning of life without God
This sermon goes through the first 6 chapters of the book of Ecclesiastes. Humanism is one of the themes of the book (life lived on the animal plane). Solomon does everything a person can do if God didn't exist and describes what each of these efforts produced. Many of the things he wrote about are statements that other philosophers many years later would conclude.
Chaplain
Member
A blog that I read recently really summed it up what I think you are hinting at:
People do not like being told that what their doing is immoral. We live in a postmodern society. Where truth doesn't exist anymore and morals are relative. Christianity is thorn in the side of society because of what God says in His Holy Book. Here is a quick summary of postmodernism:
Hopefully this helps you in understanding why people are against Jesus and His servants.
Didn't Jesus say, “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you"?
This is not to say that there are many people who are not Christian, hiding behind Christianity to hate on other people. Jesus said these false converts would be in his church in the Gospel of Matthew. So, keep speaking the truth in love, praying for those you share with and pointing them to the one that can save them.
In the church, Jesus said to call people out of when the sin and do the following if they do not repent:
“If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. Matthew 18
For unbelievers this does not apply. As Paul said:
"When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people." 1 Cor 5
People in the world need to be told that God loves them even though they have sinned against him, and that he offers them a pardon for their sins through the death and resurrection of His Son. It is up to them if they want to repent or not.
Is sin sin? Yes. No one is disagreeing what that statement. Is sexual sin different then other types of sin? Yes.
"Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." 1 Cor 6
But this is taking to the Christian. Nonchristians are already living in sin and their body is spiritually dead.
I think what you are describing many Christians. Anyone can fall for a Pharisaical mindset. But to say, not that you said it, that Christians should not share with people that God hates all sinning and wants everyone to repent is not what Jesus declared.
You do realize that the media loves to focus on things that make people look bad. Turn on the news and its like watching a slander marathon every night.
It would be a huge error on anyone's part to say that all Christians hate. There are many loving Christians who stick to what the Bible says and continue to love those who rebel against the one that created them.
hate to be the guy who comes in way into the thread and doesn't read what's been posted up to this point, but I just wanna say that I'm digging the direction that Christian music is going. I got sick of all the lame music where it's all about how everything is great with God when, in actuality, it doesn't get better, it just becomes worth it. I love how bands like Gungor are starting to shatter the mold and not be afraid to say that they have bad days...idk if this has already been talked about, but I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
Helscream
Banned
I haven't posted here in a while, heck I haven't posted on NeoGaf lately really. I just wanted to add some thought on the subject of homosexuality.
Leviticus Chapter 18 as well as Chapter 20 specify the morality and law of sexuality.
As a christian we are held responsible to know the Bible and its contents. If we lack knowledge and are ignorant of this we will be held accountable by God. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. If anyone has read the book of Leviticus you will understand how much God hates sin and utterly how brutal and gory the animal sacrifices were. Which ultimately was a prophetic foreshadowing of the coming Redeemer that would bear the sin of the world. And how brutal and gory his crucifixion would be.
I understand that some people try to apply ranks to certain sin's. Who say that one is more wicked than the other. But from reading my Bible I can say that there may be things that God's hates more than others (in terms of sin). For example God's most assuredly hates pride. It was pride that made Satan "The Anointed Cherub that covereth" to rebel and ultimately cause mankind to fall. In Leviticus when it talks about sexuality and the moral law of it. God calls it an "abomination". In the Hebrew language that word is the strongest word to help describe how utterly grotesque, repugnant, disgusting that sin is in the sight of God. And when the word abomination is used in the Bible to describe a sin it raises the distinction of that sin and how much God hates that sin.
Does that mean God hates people who are homosexual? No. But if you read and understand your bible you understand it is the SIN that God hates not the person who is sinning. Why would God cast hate and disgust on his own creation? He loved you before the very fabric of your cells were conceived in your mothers womb. As Christians we are held accountable to teach people the way of the Narrow Path. We must give them food when they hunger, drink when they thirst, clothing when they are cold, and a bed when they tire. And to bear them up to help them overcome sin and be free of its bondage. Which is ultimately achieved through the blood of Messiah.
Also when it comes to "judging".
Most Christians like to quote "Judge not least ye be Judged yourself".
Well John 7:24 tells us to
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
As I human being I have not authority against my fellow man. But if I am to judge I do so by the word of God. For he has authority and his wisdom is complete. If I judge a person's actions by the word of God I have made no folly.
So if you choose to judge a man, do so by the word of God and his law, not by your own.
Leviticus Chapter 18 as well as Chapter 20 specify the morality and law of sexuality.
As a christian we are held responsible to know the Bible and its contents. If we lack knowledge and are ignorant of this we will be held accountable by God. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. If anyone has read the book of Leviticus you will understand how much God hates sin and utterly how brutal and gory the animal sacrifices were. Which ultimately was a prophetic foreshadowing of the coming Redeemer that would bear the sin of the world. And how brutal and gory his crucifixion would be.
I understand that some people try to apply ranks to certain sin's. Who say that one is more wicked than the other. But from reading my Bible I can say that there may be things that God's hates more than others (in terms of sin). For example God's most assuredly hates pride. It was pride that made Satan "The Anointed Cherub that covereth" to rebel and ultimately cause mankind to fall. In Leviticus when it talks about sexuality and the moral law of it. God calls it an "abomination". In the Hebrew language that word is the strongest word to help describe how utterly grotesque, repugnant, disgusting that sin is in the sight of God. And when the word abomination is used in the Bible to describe a sin it raises the distinction of that sin and how much God hates that sin.
Does that mean God hates people who are homosexual? No. But if you read and understand your bible you understand it is the SIN that God hates not the person who is sinning. Why would God cast hate and disgust on his own creation? He loved you before the very fabric of your cells were conceived in your mothers womb. As Christians we are held accountable to teach people the way of the Narrow Path. We must give them food when they hunger, drink when they thirst, clothing when they are cold, and a bed when they tire. And to bear them up to help them overcome sin and be free of its bondage. Which is ultimately achieved through the blood of Messiah.
Also when it comes to "judging".
Most Christians like to quote "Judge not least ye be Judged yourself".
Well John 7:24 tells us to
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
As I human being I have not authority against my fellow man. But if I am to judge I do so by the word of God. For he has authority and his wisdom is complete. If I judge a person's actions by the word of God I have made no folly.
So if you choose to judge a man, do so by the word of God and his law, not by your own.
Can I just say that reading this thread is uplifting and heartwarming? As a Christian geek, I find that my beliefs are often the minority on message boards such as these, and I am so glad to see people who not only profess faith in Christ, but do so with intelligence and grace.
I have a quick prayer request, and maybe a small discussion point. What do you do when your fire for Jesus runs out? Ever since college has ended, I've felt lost and alone. My friends have moved away, my girlfriend of two years and I broke up, and ever since I've felt like the distance between God and I has grown.
I no longer feel the urge to read my Bible or pray and going to church has become a rarity instead of the norm. I've decided to make a massive change in my life and I'll be going to London in six weeks to start graduate school. I'm kind of hoping that this will jolt me out of my spiritual stupor.
Is this just normal ennui? I think I understand what C.S. Lewis means in The Screwtape Letters when he talks about time being one of the easiest ways for the devil to get someone's soul, since those first few years of enthusiasm have bubbled away. How do I find the drive again?
I have a quick prayer request, and maybe a small discussion point. What do you do when your fire for Jesus runs out? Ever since college has ended, I've felt lost and alone. My friends have moved away, my girlfriend of two years and I broke up, and ever since I've felt like the distance between God and I has grown.
I no longer feel the urge to read my Bible or pray and going to church has become a rarity instead of the norm. I've decided to make a massive change in my life and I'll be going to London in six weeks to start graduate school. I'm kind of hoping that this will jolt me out of my spiritual stupor.
Is this just normal ennui? I think I understand what C.S. Lewis means in The Screwtape Letters when he talks about time being one of the easiest ways for the devil to get someone's soul, since those first few years of enthusiasm have bubbled away. How do I find the drive again?
vagabondarts
Member
Whoah! Didn't even know this thread could exist on NeoGaf. I am so subscribed!
Meus Renaissance
Member
There are one or two religious OTs that act as a sanctuary for members to discuss religion without the hostility of the main board. It's interesting that threads on religion can be so popular yet these dedicated threads consist of only a dozen or less active posters.
Meus Renaissance
Member
These are quite different views [on how Christians should respond to sin]
i would say it is finding an active church that does works in the world, as well as a group of friends to do those works with. if my church experience was simply showing up every sunday and leaving, it would be a real struggle. i suppose i should feel lucky for having what i have.
Like I said, I am dumb and do not know much of anything. So I can't get into some long debate. And there is no way I could keep up with Game Analyst. But I want to speak from my heart about some things.
All I know is that my heart tells me to love. Nothing more.
I am not a perfect or sinless person. I am not worthy to judge others using any criteria. I truly believe only someone without sin can properly judge. We can speak of what is wrong or sinful but we absolutely can not let it become hate.
To be honest, I can barely keep myself on the right path. Who am I to point at others and say "you have sinned!"
I believe God is an active entity and can do things for himself. He doesn't need someone like me to do his job for him by condemning others.
There is a difference between persecution because we are Christian and hate because we deserve it by our actions. If you hate others, what do you truly expect to come of it? In this case, we are the persecutors, not the victims.
I believe our job is to Love. That's it. It is the greatest commandment.
Others will be saved through the Love of Christ. Once Jesus has found them and they have accepted, they can work out their issues and sins with Jesus. This is how it was with me. If Christians came to me and showed me nothing but hate for everything that I am, I would never have come to Christ. It was because I was Loved that Jesus found me. Then it was the Spirit that worked in my heart to fix my life. It wasn't a human Christian condemning me that fixed me. It was God.
Jesus told me to Love. So that is what I will do.
All I know is that my heart tells me to love. Nothing more.
I am not a perfect or sinless person. I am not worthy to judge others using any criteria. I truly believe only someone without sin can properly judge. We can speak of what is wrong or sinful but we absolutely can not let it become hate.
To be honest, I can barely keep myself on the right path. Who am I to point at others and say "you have sinned!"
I believe God is an active entity and can do things for himself. He doesn't need someone like me to do his job for him by condemning others.
There is a difference between persecution because we are Christian and hate because we deserve it by our actions. If you hate others, what do you truly expect to come of it? In this case, we are the persecutors, not the victims.
I believe our job is to Love. That's it. It is the greatest commandment.
Others will be saved through the Love of Christ. Once Jesus has found them and they have accepted, they can work out their issues and sins with Jesus. This is how it was with me. If Christians came to me and showed me nothing but hate for everything that I am, I would never have come to Christ. It was because I was Loved that Jesus found me. Then it was the Spirit that worked in my heart to fix my life. It wasn't a human Christian condemning me that fixed me. It was God.
Jesus told me to Love. So that is what I will do.
Matthew 22:36-40 said:
Chaplain
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The main thing is that we as Christians should go not by our feelings, but by what God's Word declares. The following commentary on Romans 12:2 will hopefully shed some light on what I mean:
Didn't know this tread existed. I'm glad it does. Lots of great stuff here and kudos to GA for bringing the knowledge and enlightening me.
As for the homosexuality debate, it's not a simple debate as some people make it out to be because the majority of us can't truly understand the act nor the desire. The majority of us will never have any of those urges. Ultimately the Bible says it's a sin, so it is.
As for how Christian should respond to sin, the way I was taught was to hate the sin, not the sinner.
As for the homosexuality debate, it's not a simple debate as some people make it out to be because the majority of us can't truly understand the act nor the desire. The majority of us will never have any of those urges. Ultimately the Bible says it's a sin, so it is.
As for how Christian should respond to sin, the way I was taught was to hate the sin, not the sinner.
If you can truly only hate the action and not the person itself (persecuting gay people is hating the person), then I think it's okay. Though it should be noted that such a statement is not actually in the Bible.
At least for me, it's impossible to hate a person's actions and still show love to the person. I'm not Jesus and I can't do it. So I'll just do the part that I can and let God handle what I can't.
From my own experience, Love is what brings people to Christ. Not judgement and condemnation and persecution and hate. If my introduction to Christianity was people telling me I'm a terrible person and I'm going to hell, I would not have even considered Christianity.
I see absolutely no difference between me and a homosexual person. We're both sinners in many many many ways in many aspects of our lives and we should love and support each other in the name of Jesus. Neither of us is worthy but neither of us is Loved any less by God himself. Both of us can be saved by the Grace of Jesus no matter what we've done in the past, how we struggle in the present with our issues, and what we will do in the future.
But I guess this is really a question for the believer to sort through between herself and God. This is the answer I feel the Spirit has led me to.
Chaplain
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"hating the sins that contaminate their lives." Jude 23
There is more to the story though. The Bible says:
1. All people are slaves to sin (until they are born again).
2. All people are held captive by Satan to do his will (until they are born again).
3. All people are blinded by Satan to the truth of God and His Son (until the Holy Spirit opens a persons eyes).
4. Peoples consciences can become defiled or seared. Meaning, that people become desensitized to the truth over time by the choices and actions they commit. This is fixed when a person becomes born again and as they continue to renew their mind by reading and obeying God's Word.
5. There are spiritual forces, controlled by Satan, influencing all people (Christians included).
6. Jesus commands us to forgive (love is selfless and always forgives), love all people (including those that hate us), tell them the truth (sharing with them the Gospel) and praying for them (that God will help them see the truth and be able to make a choice free of Satan's influences).
Jude wrote: "And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire." Jude 23
The love of God will bring many to salvation in Christ, while the fear of God will also bring many to salvation in Christ.
Amen!
Helscream
Banned
Well if I can say anything if you can find a church body that preaches sound doctrine. That would be a good start. If you cannot do that then if you can at least find one other person (if more then great) to just talk about the Bible and how the world relates prophetically in the Bible. I can tell you there is a guy who lives in Midland, Texas. I live in Dallas which is about 4 hours away. Every night or so when get on PSN chat to talk about the Bible or share what we learn in our studies. And even though is just the two of us, I can tell you its is refreshing and keeps my head in the Bible or at the very least dwelling on a subject that is rooted in the Bible or my faith. I would say the most critical thing is finding another person who is saved to just talk to.
Proverbs 27:17
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."
Find a person(s) that you can rely on and bear you up. A person that not only you can learn from, but also that person can learn from you as well. Be servants to each other. Cover each others flank. Let Satan know if he comes after you he will have to take you both down.
Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Once you become saved you have enlisted yourself in God's army. And most definitely you are marked as a enemy by Satan. There is a spiritual war going on. I bring this up to stress the importance of being a part of a church body. Not because it makes you more christian (like some people want to think), but because an army fights as one single body. The Body of Christ is the church, it is YOU. Once you are saved you become part of that body. Fighting this war on your own will be taxing and difficult. Amongst a congregation of people who are a part of God's Kingdom you will find your strength and resolve.
Also there will be people who attend church who have been around for a while. I personally look up to older people in my church as Elders. People who have been spiritually growing and maturing who many many years. I always try to find the chance to surround myself with the Elders of my church in hopes of absorbing their knowledge. Elder is a word I personally use myself. But its what I call those who are advanced in age, but also their spiritual. You mentioned your girlfriend of two years broke up with you. When you see a couple that is about 70 or so years old and have been married for 50+ years who have been Christians since their youths. That is one good source to ask advice from when it comes to courtship/relationships.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
This I can tell you from experience. If you truly seek out the face of God and wish to seek first his kingdom then most if not all the people you hang out with or are friends with will become distant. And trust me, you don't have to do anything. They will walk away from you. I use to have a strong core of friends when I graduated high school, now they are close to becoming non-existant. Simply because when it came to honoring God's law and maintaining a high morale compass that often got in the way of what my friends wanted to do or how they perceived the world. In the end the only people you will truly bond with are others who have admitted as Yahshua (Jesus) as their personal Lord and Savior.
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Well said!
Helscream
Banned
Thank you, it means a lot coming from a man of your station.
"Iron Sharpens Iron" is one of my personal favorites.
njean777
Member
I have a question, as a christian myself, I must ask for opinion. If there truly is a homosexual gene and one cannot help being gay, then what will God say about this? I just ask because I do not hate gays, and actually actively support for their rights. I just am confused and will be pretty angry if God would treat them horribly if they literally cannot help it.
archnemesis
Member
That's a good question, njean777. I just want to point out that biology is more complex than that and there are additional layers of inheritance than just genes. The important part is that most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. Calling homosexuality a sin while heterosexuality isn't, is an expression of intolerance and hatred. Thankfully, there are plenty of Christians who have long since learned to accept people for who they are.
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Here is some scientific research, from the book The Biology of Sin: Grace, Hope and Healing for Those Who Feel Trapped (by neuroscientist Dr. Stanford), regarding your questions about the gene issue.
Now back to your question. The Bible says we are all infected with the virus of sin (through DNA or genes). This doesn't change the fact that Christ came to die for each of us and live a holy life through the power of His Spirit. Paul goes into extreme detail about what this means for us as believers:
"We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God. Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace." Romans 6:6-7, 12-14
So, how does this relate to your original question? Before we were saved, we didn't have a choice when we sinned. Now that we are born again, we do not have to sin. We choose to die to self, our sinful nature, and let Christ live through us through the power of His Spirit. This applies to all Christians. Just because I feel that I am attracted to another woman other than my wife, and this feeling doesn't go away (for example), doesn't mean I have to act on those feelings. I die to those desires, ask God for help and trust that God will be with me through these struggles (and he will).
God will not treat anyone horribly. God put His wrath on His Son on the cross for humanities willful rebellion and sins. God is fair and just, and will always do what is right in each individual case. God calls each of his children to die to self, sinful life styles, and live for Him.
Any person sins that has sex outside of marriage, lusts after another person, or commits adultery with another person. God calls all people to repent of these sins, and obey what he says is the right way to live.
archnemesis
Member
There is no scientific support or evidence for sin in DNA. I can't recall seeing it being mentioned in the bible either.
Does this mean you have nothing against married same-sex couples having sex?
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We know from what the Bible says that when "Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned." We also know through biology that rage, lust, adultery, lying, stealing, addiction, all of which God says are sins, are part of our genes or DNA. I think it is pretty easy to see the correlation between sin and our DNA. If we didn't have sin, then people wouldn't steal, lie, cheat, get angry, etc.
More scientific evidence can be found in the book The Biology of Sin: Grace, Hope and Healing for Those Who Feel Trapped.
I think it is important to define the meaning of the word marriage.
From 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary
MAR'RIAGE, n. [L.mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the Biblical definition of marriage.
Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: “Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife for just any reason?” “Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’” And he said, “‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’ Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together.” Matthew 19
If same-sex people want to get married it cannot be under the definition that God gave for marriage. It would have to be under another name because God defines marriage as one man and one woman becoming one in marriage.
njean777
Member
I just do not think it is that simple, asking somebody to abstain from their genetic makeup is really a messed up thing to do. If you are gay, and only have one partner for life (marriage), then why would you be sinning? It is not like you can help it. You were born this way, and if god really does love you, then he will not punish you for being who you are.
See this is why it is hard for me to follow the bible. There are so many grey areas that the bible does not answer. Man tries to answer it, but they are not god/jesus himself. So I take what most men say with a grain of salt.
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Hopefully the following video will shed some light on this subject for you:
Is it possible for a homosexual to live a sincere Christian life?
I do not agree, but I do understand where you are coming from.
JeTmAn81
Member
I would say that living a Christian life is largely about abstaining from the impulses you were born with. To lie, to steal, to satisfy your lusts. The Bible commands us to throw off our sinful urges, no matter where they come from. In my opinion, the Bible is also pretty clear about homosexual urges being sinful as well:
"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorwho is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:24-27
I recently read an interpretation of this passage which concludes that Paul was referring to pagan practices of prostitution and was not making a statement concerning homosexuality in general, but I found no evidence in either the context of the passage or the rest of the Bible to show that conclusion as more than tenuous. The intent of this passage seems very clear to me.
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All humans are infected with sin and slaves to sin. As the Apostle Paul wrote, "The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I cant. I want to do what is good, but I dont. I dont want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I dont want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."
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