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Chuck versus the NeoGAF - The Official Season 4 Thread - Mondays on NBC

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Solo

Member
This has all of the things I love about early Chuck - fantastic music, good budget, and actual stakes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvYKhAvomPc

I know the budget is gone forever, but there is no reason the show can't infuse some of that darker undertone again. I've said it before, but killing off one of the mains would be ballsy and would give the show its edge back.
 
Solo said:
Since we're piling on right now, I'd also like to add that the music selection has gone drastically downhill from S3 onwards too (perhaps also tied to the budget cut, making it harder to license bigger acts). There are still amazing tracks like Got Nuffin and Young Blood here and there, but the music used to be impeccable every week.
Music budgets are almost always the first things to go. Same thing happened on Supernatural. Season 4 it had a massive cutback on the amount of awesome music. The soundtrack is still great, but there is nowhere near as much stuff.
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Well this thread certainly exploded today. I will say I agree with some of the points brought up, although not all of them.

Writing: I will agree that it has been sort of inconsistent this season. But from my point of view, even the down episodes are better than a lot of season 3. Not hard to guess from my posts over the last year, but I really, really disliked 3.0. Obviously there were a few standout episodes in there, but the whole tone of the show really soured me on the whole thing. Which is why I find it amusing that whatever current inconsistency is what is driving people away from the show, after they got through 3.0 with no to little issues. Of course that is all just opinion and people watch the show for different reasons than me.

The above is also why I didn't mind the writing changes after last season. Sure it led to some of the inconsistency we are seeing while the new writers get used to the characters, but some of the best episodes this season (Phase Three and Seduction Impossible) came from new people. Although I wish Matt Miller would have stayed on Chuck. Not because I think he was necessary to Chuck, but because that means he never would have had a chance to become show runner of Human Target; a show that was formerly awesome, in which he has ran into the ground and then defecated all over its corpse.

Music: I have mixed feeling on this one. I agree with Solo in that due to budget cuts a lot more of the music is forgettable. At the same time it means they license a lot of music I would probably never have listened to other wise. So I have discovered some new stuff, which I appreciate.

The Budget in General: I do feel this has hurt the show the most. There are a lot of memorable action scenes in Season 2; Mr. Roboto/wedding shootout in Vs. The Ring, the fight scene to Twisted Sister's "We're Not Gonna Take It" in Vs. The First Kill, and Sarah's fight in the car in Vs. The Best Friend come immediately to mind for me. Even in season 3, there was the pretty cool fight scene in Vs. The Honeymooners. I can't really think of any standout action scenes this year, except for maybe Vs. Phase Three. I think the major issue is they can't afford to do large gun battles anymore. Which leads to everything happening off screen, which isn't that interesting.

And I don't think there is really anything I can add to the "location" discussion that hasn't already been said.

Solo said:
I'd be curious to see where the show would be had they had Chuck and Sarah hook up in S1, discover how wrong they are for eachother, and split amicably, forming a purely platonic relationship. Something along those lines could have saved a lot of the headaches.

Honestly, I would like to agree with you here, but as I think it through in my head I imagine it would actually be worse. This is Schwartz we are talking about after all. At some point they would bring on a new female romantic interest for Chuck (either permanently or as a reoccurring role) and we would still have just as many stupid, pointless fights every episode. Even worse, they would probably have to have a separate love interest for Sarah, so we would have double the annoying. Then just to make it worse, they would do something ridiculous like Scrubs and get back together at the last second before one of the two characters was to get married. No matter what, horrible all around.

I think the only solution would have been to write Sarah out of the show in season 3, which I believe you proposed last year at one point. Of course since Strahovski is one of my favorite parts of Chuck, I would have been opposed to that. The other solution would have been to write Chuck out of the show and then make Morgan the new Chuck (Ignoring how that will never, ever happen for obvious reasons). Then they could bring back the bumbling spy portion of the show and would have kept Casey as an integral part of the team. Of course the show would get really weird if they kept Sarah in character by having her fall in love with every male partner she is assigned to, not named Casey. Then again a Morgan/Sarah relationship might be sort of hilarious.
 
The budget cuts have had a pretty glaring impact on the show. Watching a season 4 episode and then switching to a season 2 one is like night and day. The constraints have obviously caused the writers to shift focus to the elements that i always found to be weak in season 1 and 2 - the wacky sitcom situations and heavy handed relationship drama. I can't really put a heap of blame on the crew, because they're only working with what they have, but those aspects simply don't interest me and never did. It was the fun spy missions and action scenes that were the main draw for me and it just doesn't cut it in that regard anymore.

Screaming_Gremlin said:
Not because I think he was necessary to Chuck, but because that means he never would have had a chance to become show runner of Human Target; a show that was formerly awesome, in which he has ran into the ground and then defecated all over its corpse.
Part of my bitterness probably stems from this. I've never seen a show go from pure awesome to unwatchable crap so fast. It's like everything i hate about Chuck invaded the show and became the focal point. Plus there's Tim Jones fucking HORRID score permeating every scene.
 

CzarTim

Member
I enjoy the show, but I've long since lost passion for it. If it was canceled, it wouldn't bother me that much. If it stays on, I'll keep watching.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
The whole getting thrown off a horse knocks Sarah out thing annoyed me. Somehow I doubt that little bump is gonna knock out a super spy!
 

legend166

Member
Juanadams said:
Maybe they feel they have used up LA in the previous seasons and if they don't branch out now people will feel it's getting repetitive?

But I agree with you these foreign sets aren't really up to snuff. They need to think of a balance.


Eh, the show is repetitive anyway. I'd rather they repeat the good stuff :p
 

Solo

Member
Screaming_Gremlin said:
I think the only solution would have been to write Sarah out of the show in season 3, which I believe you proposed last year at one point.

At multiple points, actually! ;) Its impossible to do now because Sarah and Chuck are getting married, but I did want that so bad last year. Don't get me wrong, I love Yvonne, but I thought killing Sarah off would have taken the show in a fresh new direction. But like I said, she is now untouchable, so no point in wanting that anymore.

Great post by the way.
 

Solo

Member
Brettison said:
The whole getting thrown off a horse knocks Sarah out thing annoyed me. Somehow I doubt that little bump is gonna knock out a super spy!

Real talk: I was afraid that Sarah was going to fall, bump her head, and get amnesia. I've seen that television episode far too many times, and its never good.
 
The only character they could kill off and change the dynamic of the show is Casey. And it would piss me off to no end too. I would give them props for having the balls to do it, but that would be HUGE. Killing Morgan, Awesome, or Ellie would be more tragic, but not really show altering like killing Casey or Sarah would be.

Solo said:
Real talk: I was afraid that Sarah was going to fall, bump her head, and get amnesia. I've seen that television episode far too many times, and its never good.
She isn't Teri Bauer. Thank god.
 
Solo said:
Real talk: I was afraid that Sarah was going to fall, bump her head, and get amnesia. I've seen that television episode far too many times, and its never good.

When she got knocked out, even I let out a small sigh and said Really?! THAT knocked her out?
 

plc268

Member
Solo said:
At multiple points, actually! ;) Its impossible to do now because Sarah and Chuck are getting married, but I did want that so bad last year. Don't get me wrong, I love Yvonne, but I thought killing Sarah off would have taken the show in a fresh new direction. But like I said, she is now untouchable, so no point in wanting that anymore.

Great post by the way.

If they wrote Sarah out of the show at some point, they would've lost more viewers than you imagine. The show was really about Sarah and her relationship with Chuck from the beginning, and everything else was built atop that foundation.

What would have Chuck's motivations been had it not been for Sarah being around? In the end, I think the writers made the right decision about Chuck and Sarah's relationship... but they did mess up (imo) in eliminating the need for Sarah and Chuck's cover. Ever since the Buy More became CIA, Chuck goes on more international mission than ever before, and no one seems to wonder why. Of course, a lot know he's CIA now, but there's a good chunk that don't know and shouldn't know.
 
I figured I would through in the Season 3 blu ray tonight for a couple episodes and man do I love the guitar flash sequence from the first episode.
 

legend166

Member
plc268 said:
If they wrote Sarah out of the show at some point, they would've lost more viewers than you imagine. The show was really about Sarah and her relationship with Chuck from the beginning, and everything else was built atop that foundation.

What would have Chuck's motivations been had it not been for Sarah being around? In the end, I think the writers made the right decision about Chuck and Sarah's relationship... but they did mess up (imo) in eliminating the need for Sarah and Chuck's cover. Ever since the Buy More became CIA, Chuck goes on more international mission than ever before, and no one seems to wonder why. Of course, a lot know he's CIA now, but there's a good chunk that don't know and shouldn't know.


The whole "CIA owns the Buy More" thing has been completely pointless. It gave us a couple of useless cameos and I think one actual use of the built in defence stuff. I don't know why they kept it. I mean, I'd love for them to use it more because the Buy More was a huge reason why I loved Season 1 & 2, but it's clear the writers only kept it for nostalgia purposes and somewhere to put Castle. If you'd only started watching Chuck at the beginning of this season, it would be completely understandable if you had no idea Chuck actually worked there.
 

TheOddOne

Member
PhoncipleBone said:
The only character they could kill off and change the dynamic of the show is Casey. And it would piss me off to no end too. I would give them props for having the balls to do it, but that would be HUGE. Killing Morgan, Awesome, or Ellie would be more tragic, but not really show altering like killing Casey or Sarah would be.
They day the kill of Casey is the day I say Cancel Chuck. Killing Ellie off would be senseless now and what would happend to Captain Awesome? I don't want to think about it.
 
Caught the episode last night. Intro was amazing, Chuck and Morgan stuff was pretty good, action scenes were laughable. I thought my DVR cut out a few minutes when it went from "Chuck, I have a plan!" commercial break, vrrrroooom Chuck pulls up with Sarah hanging out the sunroof. Horseback gymnastics was pretty bad too.
 

Seth C

Member
legend166 said:
The whole "CIA owns the Buy More" thing has been completely pointless. It gave us a couple of useless cameos and I think one actual use of the built in defence stuff. I don't know why they kept it. I mean, I'd love for them to use it more because the Buy More was a huge reason why I loved Season 1 & 2, but it's clear the writers only kept it for nostalgia purposes and somewhere to put Castle. If you'd only started watching Chuck at the beginning of this season, it would be completely understandable if you had no idea Chuck actually worked there.

They keep it because it is a set they already have, and they have no money for new sets.
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Seth C said:
They keep it because it is a set they already have, and they have no money for new sets.

From my understanding, the writers actually did want to move away from the Buy More, but Warner Brothers won't let them. The Buy More set is just a giant opportunity for in show advertising and the show needs all of the money it can get.
 

jagowar

Member
Screaming_Gremlin said:
From my understanding, the writers actually did want to move away from the Buy More, but Warner Brothers won't let them. The Buy More set is just a giant opportunity for in show advertising and the show needs all of the money it can get.

I am not a fan of advertising but the writers are wrong here.... the buy more is one of the best parts of the show (due to the characters that are there). If anything they need to move away from focusing on the soap opera stuff.
 

Nander

Member
Do Chuck and How I Met Your Mother share a wardrobe or is this just a coincidence? Both screencaps are from this week's episodes.

normal_Chuck_416_0939.jpg

normal_404.jpg
 
Nander said:
Do Chuck and How I Met Your Mother share a wardrobe or is this just a coincidence? Both screencaps are from this week's episodes.

normal_Chuck_416_0939.jpg

normal_404.jpg

Just a coincidence and Cobie Smulders really needs to do something about her hair.
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Solo said:
A giant opportunity to advertise 2 year old games :lol

Haha. Pretty much why I find that argument amusing as well, since everything in the Buy More is always old.

jagowar said:
I am not a fan of advertising but the writers are wrong here.... the buy more is one of the best parts of the show (due to the characters that are there). If anything they need to move away from focusing on the soap opera stuff.

I agree with the last sentence, but I do think they need to move away from the Buy More. From a story point of view, it hasn't made sense since season 2. Chuck has his engineering degree from Stanford. It is probably time for him to get a new job. Which is probably why they rarely even bother to show Chuck working there or bother to explain why no one cares that he is gone for days at a time while on missions on the other side of the world. Actually, I am not even sure why he needs to have a cover job now that he is a full time spy. Sarah apparently doesn't need one.
 
Screaming_Gremlin said:
Haha. Pretty much why I find that argument amusing as well, since everything in the Buy More is always old.



I agree with the last sentence, but I do think they need to move away from the Buy More. From a story point of view, it hasn't made sense since season 2. Chuck has his engineering degree from Stanford. It is probably time for him to get a new job. Which is probably why they rarely even bother to show Chuck working there or bother to explain why no one cares that he is gone for days at a time while on missions on the other side of the world. Actually, I am not even sure why he needs to have a cover job now that he is a full time spy. Sarah apparently doesn't need one.

Before season 4 started I had hoped they would have had Chuck start his own IT or software business. This would have allowed them to retain some of the great Buy More employees (well, Jeff & Lester) while at the same time would have been a nice cover for Chuck since he wouldn't have anyone to report to. Alas, they didn't pursue it but I'm not terribly upset over staying in the Buy More.
 
Screaming_Gremlin said:
Haha. Pretty much why I find that argument amusing as well, since everything in the Buy More is always old.



I agree with the last sentence, but I do think they need to move away from the Buy More. From a story point of view, it hasn't made sense since season 2. Chuck has his engineering degree from Stanford. It is probably time for him to get a new job. Which is probably why they rarely even bother to show Chuck working there or bother to explain why no one cares that he is gone for days at a time while on missions on the other side of the world. Actually, I am not even sure why he needs to have a cover job now that he is a full time spy. Sarah apparently doesn't need one.

Before season 4 started I had hoped they would have had Chuck start his own IT or software business. This would have allowed them to retain some of the great Buy More employees (well, Jeff & Lester) while at the same time would have been a nice cover for Chuck since he wouldn't have anyone to report to. Alas, they didn't pursue it but I'm not terribly upset over staying in the Buy More.
 
Solo said:
I know the budget is gone forever, but there is no reason the show can't infuse some of that darker undertone again. I've said it before, but killing off one of the mains would be ballsy and would give the show its edge back.
I agree wholeheartedly. While Dalton was delightfully menacing at times, I still didn't get the feeling that the stakes were high at any point earlier in this season. They've shifted away from the darker undertone, and the show suffers because of it. They need to get back to actually putting the characters in danger. Even something like them knocking off Emmett last season (out of nowhere, very brutal, and with Wilson Phillips on in the background) would give the show a little more punch.
PhoncipleBone said:
The only character they could kill off and change the dynamic of the show is Casey. And it would piss me off to no end too. I would give them props for having the balls to do it, but that would be HUGE. Killing Morgan, Awesome, or Ellie would be more tragic, but not really show altering like killing Casey or Sarah would be.
They could go further down the list and kill off Jeffster, Beckman, or even Alex. Any of those would leave a mark. I think they'd have a tough time justifying killing anyone else.


Screaming_Gremlin said:
The above is also why I didn't mind the writing changes after last season. Sure it led to some of the inconsistency we are seeing while the new writers get used to the characters, but some of the best episodes this season (Phase Three and Seduction Impossible) came from new people.
Solo said:
Me personally, I love the shit out of the episodes that manage to hit the right notes (like this one or the Roan one), but in the poor episodes I'm often feeling like I'm completely over the show because the inconsistency has been going on for half the series now and they return to the well of certain tropes far too often.
I think you guys (and a number of other people that have chimed in) hit the nail on the head with the inconsistency comment. Chuck, at the height of its powers, does (did?) a lot of things very well: dramatic writing, comedy writing, fun action, great soundtrack, extremely charismatic actors, etc... I feel like some of this is coming up short these days, and they're not showing as much range as they did before. The ability to blend all of that good stuff together used to be a calling card for the show, whereas now they seem to focus on either drama or humor rather than cleverly mixing the two. Focusing too much on one facet of the show tends to make the drama seem overwrought and the humor seem a little slapstick. The high points are still high, but they're not putting it all together on a regular basis. Again, I am enjoying this season and I hope they get at least 13 episode next year to finish things off, but I do recognize that there are a few problems now that keep the show from being as good as it once was.


A little bit of ratings/renewal chatter from over on TVbtN:
TVbtN said:
Money matters, so Warner Bros could certainly entice NBC to renew Chuck again with deep discounts. But Chuck doesn’t seemed destined for big syndicated money, so steep discounting on that basis seems unlikely. Of course, to quote Charles Barkley: "I may be wrong…but I doubt it." Fans should cross their fingers and hope the ratings goes up. That’s what I’ll be doing.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Cornballer said:
They could go further down the list and kill off Jeffster, Beckman, or even Alex. Any of those would leave a mark. I think they'd have a tough time justifying killing anyone else.
Damn, that would be fucked up. Casey and Morgan would go beserk.
 

Hixx

Member
People even discussing the notion of killing off Jeffster or Morgan are fucking insane. They are edging their way to being the best thing about the show now.

Jeff's teddy bear with the Jeffster tshirt on was brilliant.
 

RevoDS

Junior Member
Realistically, if they're going to kill a character the only two I can see getting killed are Big Mike (come on, the writers have been struggling to write material for him ever since the S3 budget cuts, and it's getting worse. I was actually surprised to see him last week, even though it was merely a cameo) and Beckman.

Alex would create the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU factor, but it would probably make Morgan regress as a character. Anyone else is off the table as far as I'm concerned.
 

Solo

Member
Cornballer said:
I agree wholeheartedly. While Dalton was delightfully menacing at times, I still didn't get the feeling that the stakes were high at any point earlier in this season. They've shifted away from the darker undertone, and the show suffers because of it. They need to get back to actually putting the characters in danger. Even something like them knocking off Emmett last season (out of nowhere, very brutal, and with Wilson Phillips on in the background) would give the show a little more punch.

Yep. Its hard to get wrapped up in an episode when you know everyone is always going to get out scott free. There is still time to remedy this, writers! Whack Morgan or Casey or Sarah or Ellie or Awesome - show me some balls!

On the flip side - they killed Bryce off way too early.

Cornballer said:
I think you guys (and a number of other people that have chimed in) hit the nail on the head with the inconsistency comment. Chuck, at the height of its powers, does (did?) a lot of things very well: dramatic writing, comedy writing, fun action, great soundtrack, extremely charismatic actors, etc... I feel like some of this is coming up short these days, and they're not showing as much range as they did before. The ability to blend all of that good stuff together used to be a calling card for the show, whereas now they seem to focus on either drama or humor rather than cleverly mixing the two. Focusing too much on one facet of the show tends to make the drama seem overwrought and the humor seem a little slapstick. The high points are still high, but they're not putting it all together on a regular basis. Again, I am enjoying this season and I hope they get at least 13 episode next year to finish things off, but I do recognize that there are a few problems now that keep the show from being as good as it once was.

Well said, Corny! This is how Ive felt for 2 years now. Its like Humpty Dumpty broke after S2 and they've never been able to put him back together just right.
 
RevoDS said:
Realistically, if they're going to kill a character the only two I can see getting killed are Big Mike (come on, the writers have been struggling to write material for him ever since the S3 budget cuts, and it's getting worse. I was actually surprised to see him last week, even though it was merely a cameo) and Beckman.

Alex would create the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU factor, but it would probably make Morgan regress as a character. Anyone else is off the table as far as I'm concerned.

I thought for sure that beckman would be offed in season 3!
 

Clevinger

Member
Cornballer said:
They could go further down the list and kill off Jeffster, Beckman, or even Alex.

Bite your tongue! Lester's always been my favorite character, and it's tragic how underused he is (and being shoved into the now perpetual duo with Jeff).
 

Poyunch

Member
And who could replace her? Casey. It could blend well with this whole arc of him being not so useful or even being used much anymore.
 
legend166 said:
I would have no problem with Beckman being killed. She's terrible.
Killing Beckman would not really raise stakes too much.

I honestly thought that last season when Shaw came back and they basically black balled the team and Beckman we would get a season of Casey, Chuck, and Sarah on the run while the government hunted them. Basically they would be abandoned and on their own with little to no resources. That was where I thought they were going with that episode, even after Morgan and Awesome saved them with the Crown Vic.
 

Arjen

Member
I still liked this epeisode, but i feel they should have ended it with tha last semi-season finale. Would have been good closure.
Don't get me wrong, i still enjoy watching the show i i hope they get one last season to make a proper final, but i feel it's dragging on now a bit.
 
Heh, I was just about to post that. It was a funny cover for the situation, but that stupid song has been stuck in my head all week. :/
 

jey_16

Banned
i have been watching some older episodes and i have realized just how much i love this show and even though it may not be at its peak, i dont want it to be canceled.

but they have to do something insane, change it up somehow.....everything seems so easy for Chuck but i dont know how they get around that without removing the intersect?

i dont see the point in killing a minor character....
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
I completely gave up on Chuck this season. I haven't watched the last ~5 episodes or so, and I haven't even really missed it. Crazy, since I was clamoring for its renewal in Season 2.

Season 3 & season 4 have been entertaining in the sense that I like the characters, and I liked the kooky situations they would get themselves in. But the ridiculous plotlines made it impossible for me to care about what was happening in any meaningful way.

In season 2 I was like "ooooooh shit Ellie's wedding! OMG I can't wait to tune in." But now it's just been like "eh I guess I'll watch Chuck."

Kinda sad.
 
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