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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)
- Thread starter GK86
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Like the very beginning of the video, he hands him a gin bottle that's clearly not full. Means it's open. Just because he has the cap on doesn't mean anything.
And how is not agreeing with your fuck all cops mentality victim blaming? I'm just stating what the video shows to me.
And he pulls his gun out and the camera goes nuts, you cannot argue he pulled it out, pointed it at his head and then purposely pulled the trigger just to murder him.
never seems to be an issue for any other criminal cases. I watch the news all the time and if it happens on camera they usually show it.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
And that had to escalate to pulling out a gun and murdering the man... why?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Doesn't a murder charge require that they prove intent? Don't know how they're gonna prove that if that's the case.
Except most other criminal cases aren't anywhere close to the profile of this one.
I was wondering this myself. Prior history with the guy? Or maybe they are just overcharging and then hoping to get the guy on a slightly lesser charge, I dunno.
MHWilliams
Member
And the problem is we have allowed "the officer may have believed there was a potential threat" to stand in for "there was a potential threat" as a reason to justify a murder. And let's not mince words, it is murder.
I was surprised at the murder charge. Like many of these situations, I would've expected manslaughter.
foodtaster
Banned
If the guy has an excellent lawyer he'll likely get away with manslaughter. In response to the other person talking about compliance; in the vast majority of the situations where someone exhibits noncompliance, no one get's killed either. In fact, despite all of the media, police shootings are relatively rare, compliant or not. The question is whether for those who were going to be shot does compliance prevent the inevitable. There isn't enough data to say either way.
Cops don't deserve special treatment.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It can be. Like if you're unarmed and a cop pulls their gun and starts yelling "Drop your weapon!" (Or my personal favorite, "Stop reaching for my weapon.")it's a good idea to run.
And driving away from a stop is not normally advisable, but if a cop were to reach for their gun and mouth "You gon' die, nigger." then yeah, you should probably GTFO.
Why bring up the safer to comply argument at all? These things have been happening left and right and time and again the actions taken by the victims were incredibly minor and SHOULDN'T be increasing their chances of BEING MURDERED. Just let them go man, you've got their info for fuck's sake.
Not really, it's called forgetting to have it on your person.
I love how we can have video of a police officer pulling out a gun and shooting an unarmed man in the face and still have people questioning whether it was murder.
A sealed bottle is not an open container.
He had a license plate.
He did not have his license, at which point the cop should've ran his name to make sure the information he was provided is correct. At no point in time should he have tried to open the car door. THAT is what escalated the situation.
It had definitely been opened, that's undeniably not gin in the bottle. It's not relevant to the incident, but I'm sure the defense will bring it up at trial to make him look bad.
blankempathy
Member
Don't get me wrong I didn't say what he did was right. Thats where it was leading to though. Maybe he would of dragged his ass out of the car or maybe he would of asked him to get out on his own. Guess we'll never know. His body language and tone don't say "i'm going to murder you today". If this guy didn't get killed no one would say anything negative about the way the officer handled the situation up until that point. However in those 10 some seconds it just turns into the worse situation possible and.he utterly and completely fucked up and he should pay for that mistake.
True, and I thought of it while making that post. I'm assuming most of those are generally from compliance. I think it's very likely statistically true.
All I'm saying is it's pretty dangerous to start suggesting non-compliance with calmly given Police orders is the right approach. (not that anyone suggested that directly, but it's sort of where that sort of conversation leads)
Right, it's no guarantee.. and that's horrifying. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to show evidence that it is safer.
IMO it's a dangerous conversation to even start having.
I've said enough on the topic and don't want to de-rail more though.
I agree; and I didn't bring it up.
MHWilliams
Member
Still not a justification for murder. Citations, fines, arrests. These tools exist for a reason.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
This is my favorite part of your ridiculous post.
Dude come on. No one is saying it's justification. You're taking 2 separate issues and conflating them.
I see while I was at work the defense has already started.
This was murder. Plain and simple. There was no reason to draw a gun and point it at the guys head. Just stop.
blankempathy
Member
Here we go again. I never said it justified murder did I? Nothing that happened justifies the driver being killed that day.
What? You do know this incident took place in America right?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It would have been poetic justice if he'd been run over by a car that was only moving because of a murder he committed.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Yeah maybe they want him to plead to reckless homicide or something.
NickFire
Member
Everyone agrees the cop killed this man with no lawful reason, moral justification, etc. But some people are taking the position that its time to fight back when the police overstep their boundaries, and others, myself included, feel that creates a more significant risk of getting killed by the police and is bad advice.
In response some are claiming you are probably as likely to get killed if you don't resist as you are if you do, which statistically is simply not true, and which is easy to understand if you have the slightest understanding of our incarceration rates and sheer number of criminal cases filed in our courts each and every day they are open. Simply put, we would need millions of these killings each year for it to be as risky to comply as it is to resist.
Now some people are pointing out resistance may be the best way to effectuate change. I am skeptical, but I can understand that argument, and agree it is sound. I am skeptical because I think that will put police on greater edge, and turn the public against the resistance faster than the police. But again, its reasonable theory, unlike the suggestion that resistance poses no greater risk of death than compliance.
Edit - ok maybe some are trying to justify the shooting. All I can do is shake my head at that.
captainnapalm
Member
It's not about shifting the blame. Or it certainly wasn't in my case. It's about being real about the situation you're in. Are police officers supposed to be the good guys at all times, rational, fair and lawful at all times? Sure, but that's not the world we live in.
Getting into a confrontational situation with a cop is actually one of the most dangerous situations you can find yourself in in life.
You're dealing with someone empowered by the state to throw you in jail and/or use deadly force - to ruin your life or end it. You are also dealing with an individual that may be on his own power trip and may be in law enforcement for all the wrong reasons.
You are incredibly vulnerable when dealing with a cop - and you need to be extremely aware of that at all times. That was my only point with the whole compliance thing. Compliance or pleading - those are your only two options as I see it.
MHWilliams
Member
So, let's follow this thought.
What is the point of this statement?
What does this being strange prove in relation to this situation? Asking it randomly is useless, so please, let me in on your thought process.
Please explain the point of the statement then, from your own perspective.
We have no idea what his body language was though because we can't see him. Yeah, I don't think he was planning on murdering the driver but for all we know the drivers had bad run ins with cops before and is scared shitless of them. He certainly does not seem comfortable once the cop goes for the door and considering we haven't heard anything about illegal stuff in the car it's logical to think he's scared and not thinking straight.
I've seen people literally deny it was murder.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
TheOohChild
Member
My guess is Sam DuBose knew he was about to take a hit for not having his license straightened out, and he was getting ready to evade an arrest.
But he was shot in the fucking face.
It is an unconscionable reaction, and it is so disturbing that some people believe that public execution is a reasonable outcome to disobeying police orders.
But he was shot in the fucking face.
It is an unconscionable reaction, and it is so disturbing that some people believe that public execution is a reasonable outcome to disobeying police orders.
When you aim a gun at someone's head and pull the trigger, I'd say you demonstrated intent.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Then why do people keep bringing it up? It's the same fucking thing with all these threads, someone comes by and makes a big post prattling on about how the victim should've been more compliant and then affixes a short "doesn't mean it's right doe" and then acts shocked when other posters ask why they put so much focus on it.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
Why is your interpretation of what was relevant more valid than mine?
I am not interested in the nonsensical point of view that this man caused his own death by refusing to get out of the car. Don't confuse my point with another narrative.
My point is incredibly simple:
In most clashes with the police, there is an element of non-compliance. Justified or not, what you have in such scenarios is at least one irritated person, and depending on several factors, most notably the emotional stability of the one with the gun, things escalate.
The refusal to get out of the car isn't even significant when all is said and done, but non-compliance remains a factor in police clashes and that is true for many of these videos. There is always a flashpoint. What may be irrelevant to any reasonable person could be enough for an unstable individual in a uniform to pull out his sidearm. This is why some parents have the "talk" with their children. I'm just stating the obvious here, that doesn't undermine the barbarity of what we've seen in this video.
Yes. It's a fact that socially people are more likely to associate crime and violence with minorities, particularly those of the black community. Thus if you are black and happen to interact with the police, you should pay particular attention to how you convey yourself.
Is it right? No. But it is the reality, unfortunately and I'd rather my son not try to protest this point to a police officer where the situation to arise.
NickFire
Member
Yeah, I edited my post when I saw someone else suggesting it may have been an accident.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
He was using the muzzle flash of the pistol to light up the car interior to help him find his license.
I highly suggest you read up on open container laws. If the seal has been broken it cannot be stored near your person. It needs to be in the trunk.
He had no license plate on the front of his car which is why he was stopped in the first place.
The cops mistake was to direct him to get out of the car instead of opening the door I agree with that, but it doesn't change th fact he guy was starting his car and about to run.
Yes, toward an individual (especially a non-white person) in the moment with a cop I agree with this.
But I also agree the system as a whole (from the police/prosecution/government side) is ultimately to blame and must change (which is now very slowly happening due to the awareness). Cops shouldn't be feared. But that doesn't matter when its you and a guy with a gun who might be racist, might be trigger happy, might be on a power trip. Making the situation worse for yourself by resisting does not and can not benefit you. Even if you wrestle the gun away and shoot the corrupt cop you're still in massive hot water.
But somehow this sentiment is thrown in with victim blaming or justifying the cop's actions or defending the cop.
MHWilliams
Member
And people are saying, "Hey, stop at the bolded part. Put the onus on law enforcement to act correctly than on the potential victims."
You can make that personal choice, rock out. I'd probably make the same one. But it does nothing to fix the problem by offering it as the solution.
speculawyer
Member
This is another reason we need less guns. The cops wouldn't be so damn jumpy if they didn't have to worry about every person they pull over possibly packing heat.
You think a Brittish cop is worried about getting shot when he pulls someone over? No, the probability is so low.
You think a Brittish cop is worried about getting shot when he pulls someone over? No, the probability is so low.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
what the fuck? this absolutely deserves a murder charge based on that video. really hard to watch.... how the fuck can you do that to another person?
Everyone, let's think long and hard about why the victim did not cooperate with his murderer.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Bottle looks pretty full to me.
The officer gives no indications during the encounter that he believes the man to be drunk.
Z_Y
Member
It boggles the mind.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Thanks for the answers dudes.
Follow up: Was the cop an asshole cause who stops someone for no front license plate?
Edit: Rhetorical
Follow up: Was the cop an asshole cause who stops someone for no front license plate?
Edit: Rhetorical
Someone also stated that brand of gin isn't that color.Bottle looks pretty full to me.
The officer gives no indications during the encounter that he believes the man to be drunk.
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