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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)
- Thread starter GK86
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Well, to be precise, there's always one thing, which is the societal agreement for two hundred years that black people don't have the right to life.
As long as that right is not acknowledged, or as long as it's hemmed in with restrictions and expectations of behavior that are required in order to deserve to exist, there will always be a reason that a cop did the right thing in shooting a black man.
And either way the vast majority of police interactions.. people comply, and nobody is harmed.
People either have a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics or are being willfully obtuse if they think running from the police, particularly in a vehicle, is "safer" than compliance.
It's horrifying that compliance isn't enough to guarantee safety in this country, but downright dangerous to start suggesting it isn't the safer option.
GoldenEye 007
Member
This is unfortunately wrong. If a cop orders you out of your car, you are required to follow that order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms
Oh, the ones you see? What about all the ones you don't see? What about all the times cops have been caught in lies? Your "statistics," which you haven't sourced, are bullshit and spurious.
Or perhaps a cop, someone whose responsibility is to uphold the law, should react appropriately?
old manatee
Banned
The library was taking a beating on unreturned books until they changed the punishment to field execution.
Maybe he was scared shitless. Maybe he is mentally ill. Maybe he just didn't feel like being dehumanized that day. Who cares, he was murdered.
That's a nice euphemism for shooting you in the face.
At what point does the murderer order him out of the car? He says "Take your seatbelt off," then opens the man's door. Maybe I'm missing it.
I'm sorry. I don't play charades with cops.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Yes, but it's the escalation that needs to be looked at. Even if the Officer went only hands on, pepper spray, taser, etc. there has to be a better option than even that.
No physical confrontation should be justified for this type of noncompliance, in this particular situation, because it significantly raises the chances of someone being hurt.
Added to OP.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
That's the problem though. Cops shouldn't be able to ask you to exit your car without just cause. Like Sandra Bland. Should she have followed the cops instructions? Yes. And it's really, really sad that she should have had to comply with some asshole on an ego trip because she wouldn't put out her cigarette. Police should NOT have the ability to ask someone to exit a vehicle for no legal reason at all. But they do. And that's the problem.
Why did I click that. I knew what video it would be, and it never fails to disturb me.
That guy survived though, right?
Christopher
Member
So hard to watch my god
NickFire
Member
While its equally possible he lied, it is entirely possible that the second cop really thought he saw the first being dragged. Perception and memory is a funny thing, which is why you can have five different versions of a single event without anyone intentionally lying. Often we see a scene that makes no sense and/or forget details of a scene, and our brain then fills in the gaps for us based on assumptions, prejudices, other accounts, etc.
If the second cop came onto the scene as the first was against the side and shooting into a car that continued down the street in the manner we know it did, he may think he actually saw the first getting dragged. Would be very interested to see his body camera if he was wearing it.
old manatee
Banned
Like a traffic violation or being black, or gee no fucking reason at all?
See above post.
So we agree then, since in that post you quoted I said "that was murder." in my first line.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Always an excuse, always a justification.
This is why the system continues. This is why there's no significant change.
For every one poster in here pissed off about this happening repeatedly, there's 15+ people who are comfortable with the status quo and give no fucks at all.
It's depressing.
They are Police officers whose jurisdiction is the University and the surrounding neighborhoods.
They aren't "campus cops".. that's sort of a misleading euphemism in general. They aren't much different than a regular precinct would be if stationed near a major University. The purpose of making them a separate PD is that they have unique needs and a special relationship with the University.
Sure. But I didn't make any assertions. You did! You asserted that your odds of survival are higher if you comply. Now you're saying that there's no way to know whether your odds of survival are higher. I agree with your new position!
I don't think that fleeing the police is safer than compliance. For one thing, it is itself against the law.
I think that it is dangerous and inappropriate to respond to a blatant murder by a police officer by talking about how compliance is less likely to get you killed. I think it is a not-so-subtle attempt to shift the blame in a situation where it's totally absurd to do so.
On that point we do agree. So why care about why he didn't comply? He probably would have murdered him anyway and he was right to panic.
Yeah, he got a settlement from the city in Feb, the trooper's trail is due a verdict soon
No, the statistics, which you still haven't sourced, are spurious. They aren't credible. Once credibility is gone, the "statistics," which you still haven't shown, are void.
aspiegamer
Member
After checking up on it, you're correct on one account. I apologize. You must exit. You still have the right to ask if you're being detained and why.
When I went to Ohio State a campus police officer was killed by someone breaking into the wexner museum. They stopped the bus I was on to check for suspects. They're no rent a cops, that's for sure.
foodtaster
Banned
Saying people should comply to blatant injustice because complying reduces your likelihood of getting killed is akin to saying women should never go to bars, parties or wear nice clothing because it reduces their likelihood of being raped. Both statements are factually true, but you're missing the point.
Yes, and he was 1-mile outside of his jurisdiction(the campus). He wasn't supposed to be in that neighborhood.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Would it be feasible to issue a citation for noncompliance instead of essentially being forced to go physical, as the current protocol currently is?
The whole traffic stop was recorded. I would rather the police not have to get physical and instead have a judge look at the evidence and make a ruling on either making the defendant pay the noncompliance citation or just throw the ticket out.
The whole traffic stop was recorded. I would rather the police not have to get physical and instead have a judge look at the evidence and make a ruling on either making the defendant pay the noncompliance citation or just throw the ticket out.
Strange since you mocked someone over the topic and made strong arguments that it can't be proven. Actually you claimed nobody can have evidence.
How about 25-50 million traffic tickets being given out a year? That represents 10's of millions of instances of compliance where nobody is being harmed. It would take 10's of millions of instances of non-compliance leading to harm to prove that it wasn't safer to comply.
Then you should have said as much.
The cop does not ask him to exit the vehicle at any point in time. He tries to open the door, arguably without any reason for search or seizure, which could be considered a violation of the 4th amendment.
It doesn't matter that he was right.
The murderer never asked the man to leave the car. He told him to take his seatbelt off, and then he opened his door for him.
Never. He never said "Get out the car." Coins's and the other guy who was saying the same thing arguments are bullshit.
They've probably never even watched the videos.
Its borderline victim blaming in this case
Would he? How do you know? I care cause I wanted him to live.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
That goes without saying...
However, speaking generally - even if you are not legally obliged - a cop telling you to get out of the car doesn't seem unreasonable. Nothing about this incident or any other incident I have seen on footage justified a weapon being undrawn. But were we to analyse some of these videos and try to pinpoint moments that led up to the flashpoint, behaviour that can be construed as antagonistic or passive aggressive should be at least acknowledged.
Any cop can be a potential trigger happy, hot head. You can't give them any reason to get irritated, especially as a black man. If they tell you to get out of the car, or put out a cigarette, you respond with: "Yes, sir". Don't give them a reason.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I think this is pretty much the core of the problem. Obviously very closely tied to racial profiling, but the use of the gun as a normal tool, and not a last resort is the biggest problem I see.
When someone is that quick to execute, they probably wanted to murder from the get go. I don't give the officer the benefit of the doubt. I give that to the victim of murder.
And you don't see a problem with that, we have to treat those that "protect and serve" like a rabid animal?
NickFire
Member
No its fucking not even close There is a huge gulf between saying you asked for it to a woman in a revealing dress in a bar, and saying don't needlessly provoke the man with a gun either attached to his hip / in his hand who thinks the law allows him to use it if you get aggressive.
GoldenEye 007
Member
You're right actually. Granted I opened and closed that video as soon as possible, I'm not sure if he ever said to get out. I was conflating things with the Sandra Bland arrest and death in Texas.
Not that the penalty for not getting out is death, of course.
old manatee
Banned
These university pigs should be riding a fucking Segway with a walkee talkee.
BUT.... again there was zero injustice going on until cop took it to 100 and shot the guy. The guy was in the wrong. Driving without ID, refusing to open the door on a direct order. Those things are actually illegal. That doesn't mean the cop should have shot him. The cop murdered him. The cop had no right to shoot him. But the injustice happened in this case at the moment of shooting.
Cop murdered dude. Not apologizing for him.
they are told all the time "today is the day you might not make it home to your wife and kids" and it's stupid.
foodtaster
Banned
Some things that wouldn't exist of people just complied to government/police abuse:
1. Women's suffrage
2. The end of slavery
3. Gay marriage
The very fabric and creation of this very country hinges on a lack of compliance/tolerance for government abuse. People need to go read a book.
1. Women's suffrage
2. The end of slavery
3. Gay marriage
The very fabric and creation of this very country hinges on a lack of compliance/tolerance for government abuse. People need to go read a book.
foodtaster
Banned
Why are you even defending the person [you] say is a murder? Why are you defending a murder? What exactly is your point with saying that the guy did some illegal things? Murder is greater than all of those things combined, regardless of how you quantify. Should the cop die too?
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