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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)

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Zaptruder

Banned
so instead of cops killing black people, we'll have metal gears killing black people

what

Ideally no! I mean cops killing black people is a result of poor police training, 'profiling', a belief that they're more important than the public, fear of their own lives and high availability of guns in America.

Having expendable drones means the strategy can be changed - so that the drones can take the abuse without needing an itchy trigger finger. Ideally it's so expendable (with units in the thousands a piece) it can allow people to destroy a drone before it sends other drones to subdue with tasers and other nonlethal weaponry.
 

Pizoxuat

Junior Member
Ok, I don't agree with what happened at all. And I'm sure that's not alcohol in that gin container. But I have to play devil's advocate.

Is it possible that is alcohol, but something mixed? Or is it confirmed the seal was never broken?

You actually don't have to play devil's advocate. If there was something nefarious in the bottle, it will come up at trial.
 

atr0cious

Member
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This is urine. Probably why the dude told him to smell it. Reminds me of dumb and dumber, and would make the whole thing funny if not for this piece of shit thug who had to kill him for "not complying."

Fuck all cops, especially the fucking shit heads who lied for him.
 

FartOfWar

Banned
Ok, I don't agree with what happened at all. And I'm sure that's not alcohol in that gin container. But I have to play devil's advocate.

Is it possible that is alcohol, but something mixed? Or is it confirmed the seal was never broken?
Who cares what it was. Arrest him not murder him.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
2nd degree murder has two types, intentional and reckless. And the intent only needs to be determined at the moment in time the person pulls the trigger. Even if it wasn't "intentional" it can still be done in a reckless manner which signifies a complete disregard for human life.

Word. Thanks for explaining that and being rational about my intent.
 

akira28

Member
Is it right? No. But it is the reality, unfortunately and I'd rather my son not try to protest this point to a police officer where the situation to arise.

If it were me, I'd rather be the one doing the shooting. Wouldn't you? 'Son, this is how we deal with tyrants'. Instead of 'son, you're becoming a man now, lets have a talk about you living in rational fear of the world and the world living in irrational fear of you. For the rest of your adult life. Forever.'
 

Opto

Banned
Ok, I don't agree with what happened at all. And I'm sure that's not alcohol in that gin container. But I have to play devil's advocate.

Is it possible that is alcohol, but something mixed? Or is it confirmed the seal was never broken?

It could be anything. I went through the body cam footage and it should be in evidence because he pointed it out
 

Ke0

Member
Guys it's not urine or alcohol or an explosive compound, or the blood of a dead god, or whatever other "devil's advocate" out there argument you want to make up.

Watch the bloody video, he says it's air freshener and gives it to the cop. Do you people really think the cop would take the bottle examine it and then simply put it away if it were alcohol? Or whatever other nonsense "maybe it's..." some of you have been coming up with?
 
Not embarrassed about being wrong. I got here around page 20. If it wasn't opened then it wasn't opened. If it wasn't gin it wasn't gin.

I figured it was legal somewhere.

Municipalities place the laws not the state. So it can be illegal in cities.

However there are no laws that say a passenger cant have an open container in the car.

Also bars are open to 3am and grocery stores sell liquor... even on Sundays!
 

Nafai1123

Banned
You actually don't have to play devil's advocate. If there was something nefarious in the bottle, it will come up at trial.

Of course it will, along with all his priors, his 13 kids and whatever other irrelevant shit they can come up with to paint him as a bad guy.
 

riotous

Banned
You're still wrong
*snip*

Really not arguing this anymore.

I don't think I suggested that. In fact I explicitly stated I believe the opposite.

I said in another post it was never directly suggested; it's really where that train of arguments lead. Generally when someone mocks a statement repeatedly they are indirectly suggesting the opposite holds more truth.

I know it wasn't your INTENT: you are just coming at the guy for bringing up the topic, but that can be done without mocking the concept.

Compliance may reduce your odds of getting killed -- but it doesn't necessarily reduce your odds of getting killed for being black.

I personally doubt that. Nobody disagrees that being black makes any Police interaction more dangerous; but you are basically suggesting that this cop would have murdered this guy no matter what. It doesn't make sense to me; this the first black guy he's pulled over in 5 years? Like I said not interested in continuing to argue about it; I simply disagree.

You are kind of a bit all over the place on the topic IMO lol.
 
Municipalities place the laws not the state. So it can be illegal in cities.

However there are no laws that say a passenger cant have an open container in the car.

Also bars are open to 3am and grocery stores sell liquor... even on Sundays!

Good to know. Personally I wouldn't risk having an open container in a car unless its the trunk. No need to give police any reason for anything.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Why are we talking about whats in the container?

It's not important to what happened and is only there to begin victim blaming or painting the victim in a bad light.

Because it's good for shaming the "cop asked for his license and the dumb drunk handed him gin" crowd.

Good to know. Personally I wouldn't risk having an open container in a car unless its the trunk. No need to give police any reason for anything.

One time someone put an open alcohol container in my car just minutes before I left and immediately hit a DUI checkpoint. Thankfully not knowing about something is the best way to keep your cool about it so they never noticed.
 

Pizoxuat

Junior Member
Of course it will, along with all his priors, his 13 kids and whatever other irrelevant shit they can come up with to paint him as a bad guy.

Exactly. No "devil's advocate" playing around online is going to find an angle on this that the cops won't create and trot out at trial themselves. If they haven't come out singing that the gin bottle was filled with diluted cocaine suspended in endangered rhino piss or sonething, it's pretty safe to assume that whatever was in there was not illegal. Speculating that it might have been something terrible is not necessary, it's a diversion.
 

Con_Smith

Banned
Love it, we have irrefutable evidemce that this mirderous son of a bitch is guilty as fuck and people arill wanna debils advocate this. Fucking hilarious I say.
 
There is nothing to be gained by people going to a message board and screaming "victim blamer", something else, etc. to anyone pointing out everything that could have happened differently and trying to engage in an actual discussion as opposed to agreeing with a single point of view. If the purpose of these threads is to simply condemn the cop every time, and express sympathy for the victim, then call them petitions instead of discussions.

You seem under the mistaken assumption that everyone in the thread is a bunch of troglodytes grunting at each other and shouting feral "COPS BAD" calls, waiting for someone to descend from above with "actual discussions" to enlighten us.

In other words, what you deem to be an "actual discussion" isn't any more valid than what everyone else in here is choosing to discuss. You ought to realize that at this point in the process (and this shit is happening so often that it's a process now), waltzing into a thread about an unjustified murder of a black person at the hands of a trigger-happy cop and beginning to blurt out "see what he SHOULD HAVE done is--", because 1) everyone already knows "what he should have done", nobody needs to hear it again, and 2) derailing (yes, derailing) the conversation into what-he-should-haves is frequently a shitty tactic from closet racists to try to paint the victim as deserving a death by gunshot because he didn't immediately comply with someone in uniform like a totalitarian regime.

Even if the people perpetuating it are not closet racists themselves, bringing this up doesn't do anything to advance any kind of discussion, and is only a smart-alec side conversation that tries to come up with fantasy scenarios to say "see if I had been there I would've handled this better because--"
 

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
Those statements worry about a facet of the problem, instead of the problem.

The problem is in such a discussion, people will take your honest and reasoned discussion of flashpoints as reasons the officer is justified in their actions. The reason these statements are derailing to this and similar threads is because the officer being at fault is in contention, or at least it's treated as such by many in law enforcement, in public, on the internet, and within this forum. Were we to progress from the firm and complete understanding that the officer is completely at fault for the murder of another human, than sure, we can talk. I'm not particularly seeing that.

It is equally dishonest to ignore that, especially given the outcomes of this and previous situations.

Of course there are. I understand their suspicions, but I'm not interested in convincing them why I'm not someone who thinks "black people are to blame for their own problems". My original remark wasn't actually based on this incident but rather a general point about these shootings that I myself did not see be made, or made well enough, in previous discussions.

And for the record, I am not suggesting anything other than that the fault lies completely with the officer.
 
Love it, we have irrefutable evidemce that this mirderous son of a bitch is guilty as fuck and people arill wanna debils advocate this. Fucking hilarious I say.

I was driving all day and just now saw the video. Before I watched, I thought, "Well, MAYBE it's a LITTLE ambiguous as to what happened."

Nope. 100%, without a doubt, clear cut murder.
 

Ke0

Member
Exactly. No "devil's advocate" playing around online is going to find an angle on this that the cops won't create and trot out at trial themselves. If they haven't come out singing that the gin bottle was filled with diluted cocaine suspended in endangered rhino piss or sonething, it's pretty safe to assume that whatever was in there was not illegal. Speculating that it might have been something terrible is not necessary, it's a diversion.

The highest of highs
 
Love it, we have irrefutable evidemce that this mirderous son of a bitch is guilty as fuck and people arill wanna debils advocate this. Fucking hilarious I say.

Which is so bad.

We have people crucifying the dentist over killing the lion (a shitty thing to do) and then in here people are trying to find faults with the victim.

I wish someone here (not me, too lazy) to do a post comparison between the threads... and see how many people side with the dentist and blame the lion or Africa or whatever and then see the posts in here where people side with the cop or try to put arguments in for why the cop might have done what he did.

Im sure the cop was scared but it was his dumb ass fault to reach in the car. That's not how you control situations as a cop and it's definitely the way you escalate things.
 

NickFire

Member
Everything can happen differently. That's a pretty open concept. You can see my posts in past threads as to whether I blame the cop every time, so frankly I'll chalk that up to a strawman, or something not aimed at me despite your reply.

What's the actual discussion that you intend to have? Please let me in on your thoughts.

EDIT: Let me ask the question such statements tip-toe around: Do you believe this man was responsible, in any way, for his murder?

I'm not attacking you. I've seen tons of your posts and think you're pretty open minded on things. I'm just defending people who seem to have been attacked unfairly despite not trying to justify the cop, by people suggesting the risk of death by complying may be the same or worse than resisting a man with a gun.

As for your question to me, NO. I've seen the video. The guy did not comply, but no reasonable person should expect to be killed like that for simply not having a license and not letting the door open. If you are asking if I wished the whole thing happened differently in any respect that would have avoided the killing, then the answer is yes. But I don't blame the victim for his death, because he did nothing to deserve it.
 
I personally doubt that. Nobody disagrees that being black makes any Police interaction more dangerous; but you are basically suggesting that this cop would have murdered this guy no matter what. It doesn't make sense to me; this the first black guy he's pulled over in 5 years? Like I said not interested in continuing to argue about it; I simply disagree.

I'm in line with you on that idea.

The issue is the predisposition to believe harm is coming. That's not always based on race, but in many cases, that also feeds into officer interactions. Someone else brought up our ready access to gun as another potential issue. Or poor training. Or a system that places the officer's life above that of the citizen. There's a number of issues that feed into situations like this and compliance is only one small facet. And that's before we get into the idea of compliance in the face of unlawful requests.

I'm not attacking you. I've seen tons of your posts and think you're pretty open minded on things. I'm just defending people who seem to have been attacked unfairly despite not trying to justify the cop, by people suggesting the risk of death by complying may be the same or worse than resisting a man with a gun.
S'all good.

The reason for the part of the anger on the part of some is what I brought up earlier, where we seek overall to minimize the prepetrator's culpability in the actions that they caused.

The idea of "victim blaming" comes from discussions around sexual assault, where in the past, people would say, well if "she hadn't done A, B, or C she would not have been placed in a position for that crime to happen." And in some cases, that may even be true. Taking a different path or not ending in a comprising situation may may led to a different outcome. The problem is those statements did little to actually deal with the real problem at hand, which was the sexual assaults themselves. As individual advice, or prior to an assault, that's fine. You can say those things to your friend or loved one prior to a situation like that taking place in an attempt to minimize potential harm. But after the fact, it doesn't actually tackle the issue. It's just useless obfuscation. At best, it feeds into people's mental construction of the "just world": if the person was potentially responsible for the crime committed against them, then you can justify why you'll never find yourself in such a situation. That's comforting. I get that.

This is actually a similar case. This was a traffic stop that ended in a man's death with little hint of lethal force against the officer. There might have been things that could go differently, but that's true of any situation. But the problem is the officer's jump to lethal force. That should be the focus.

As for your question to me, NO. I've seen the video. The guy did not comply, but no reasonable person should expect to be killed like that for simply not having a license and not letting the door open. If you are asking if I wished the whole thing happened differently in any respect that would have avoided the killing, then the answer is yes. But I don't blame the victim for his death, because he did nothing to deserve it.
I too wish it had gone in a different direction.
 

BokehKing

Banned
Can't watch people get killed, couldn't even bring myself to watch a second of it...


I think they really need to reconsider how police training is done as well as psych evaluation..

I mean yeah, there are knuckle heads out there that the cops have to look out for and not let their guard down..


But the citizens are jumpy and the cops are jumpy, and the cops will shoot if you get jumpy. Couple that with the fact that some people just straight up become a fidgety mess when pulled over because well...all of what's been going on, it's a recipe for disaster
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Ok, I don't agree with what happened at all. And I'm sure that's not alcohol in that gin container. But I have to play devil's advocate.

Is it possible that is alcohol, but something mixed? Or is it confirmed the seal was never broken?

Why do you have to play devils advocate? What is that adding to the conversation?
 
All I see from "devil's advocates" and victim blamers in every single one of these stories are people saying we should pick up that can every time with the most compliant behavior possible.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Exactly. No "devil's advocate" playing around online is going to find an angle on this that the cops won't create and trot out at trial themselves. If they haven't come out singing that the gin bottle was filled with diluted cocaine suspended in endangered rhino piss or sonething, it's pretty safe to assume that whatever was in there was not illegal. Speculating that it might have been something terrible is not necessary, it's a diversion.

This guy gets it.
If we're already so far down the "He was no angel." rabbit hole that we're complaining about how many kids he has, then I think we'd hear about an actual crime.
 
Honestly, what the hell is there to play devil's advocate about? Outside of being a racist, shitty cop sympathizing dick and making terrible attempts to justify this fuckboy cop's actions, what innocent intentions do you have with playing devil's advocate? Its fruitless.
 

McBryBry

Member
Did I ever say he didn't murder the guy? No. NO. I simply asked "could this be in the bottle?" It's like if anyone posts anything that doesn't immediately agree with everything you're saying, that guy can go to prison with the cop.

The cop murdered him. No one should pull a gun in that situation. I was simply asking if the guy could've had a reason to run, for getting hit with open container. Did I say he tried to run? No. Did I say he wasn't murdered? No.

Why did I ask it? Because I can. I wanted to know what others thought. Simple as that. What's wrong with me asking a question?

Jesus.

Honestly, what the hell is there to play devil's advocate about? Outside of being a racist, shitty cop sympathizing dick and making terrible attempts to justify this fuckboy cop's actions, what innocent intentions do you have with playing devil's advocate? Its fruitless.

Because I was curious to an answer. And I'm a racist for doing that? Ok lol. I'm a sympathizer? I'm sitting here telling my girlfriend how wrong she is for thinking this cop is in the right. I think he should be convicted, no question.
 
If it were me, I'd rather be the one doing the shooting. Wouldn't you? 'Son, this is how we deal with tyrants'. Instead of 'son, you're becoming a man now, lets have a talk about you living in rational fear of the world and the world living in irrational fear of you. For the rest of your adult life. Forever.'

You're going to teach your son how to pull a gun during an "injust" stop? You clearly don't have kids or care about their well being if that's seriously the extreme end you run to in response to this.
 

akira28

Member
or in other words, the cop fucked this up about as bad as you can fuck something up. Who cares about the rest? He blew all that relevance out of the water when he did what he did. If you want to focus on anything other than the cop murdering this guy, feel free, but don't expect anyone to feel like discussing this "rarely examined angle" that only you can shine a light on. People always try to shift the focus away from the actions of the officer and to the actions of what ever poor soul attracted his attention.

You're going to teach your son how to pull a gun during an "injust" stop? You clearly don't have kids or care about their well being if that's seriously the extreme end you run to in response to this.

that's not what I was saying either, but ok.
 
Did I ever say he didn't murder the guy? No. NO. I simply asked "could this be in the bottle?" It's like if anyone posts anything that doesn't immediately agree with everything you're saying, that guy can go to prison with the cop.

The cop murdered him. No one should pull a gun in that situation. I was simply asking if the guy could've had a reason to run, for getting hit with open container. Did I say he tried to run? No. Did I say he wasn't murdered? No.

Why did I ask it? Because I can. I wanted to know what others thought. Simple as that. What's wrong with me asking a question?

Jesus.
You're acting like everyone involved in this case hasn't already thought through that.
 
Did I ever say he didn't murder the guy? No. NO. I simply asked "could this be in the bottle?" It's like if anyone posts anything that doesn't immediately agree with everything you're saying, that guy can go to prison with the cop.

The cop murdered him. No one should pull a gun in that situation. I was simply asking if the guy could've had a reason to run, for getting hit with open container. Did I say he tried to run? No. Did I say he wasn't murdered? No.

Why did I ask it? Because I can. I wanted to know what others thought. Simple as that. What's wrong with me asking a question?

Jesus.

He probably did have a reason to run.

Thats the point tho... We don't know for certain until the cops tell us more.

So speculating about whats in the bottle why didn't her open the door why didn't he produce an ID all point in a shady direction. So it doesn't need to be discussed any more, because we are all ready at that conclusion.

What happened were wondering is why a cop straight up shot him in the head because the cop was an idiot and stuck his hand in the car and got it caught as the guy was trying to resist.
 
Oof that was hard to watch.

I even understand why he didn't exit the car. Did the officer have authority to search? He could have might as well planted something on him once he exited.
 

Con_Smith

Banned
I was driving all day and just now saw the video. Before I watched, I thought, "Well, MAYBE it's a LITTLE ambiguous as to what happened."

Nope. 100%, without a doubt, clear cut murder.

I mean I don't mind being cautious, not every incident is clear cut, nor situation the same. My main problem is this is becoming an almost weekly issie and we have yet to have an instance where sympathy for victim can be shown without semantics games and character investigations for these victims start popping up.

Which is so bad.

We have people crucifying the dentist over killing the lion (a shitty thing to do) and then in here people are trying to find faults with the victim.

I wish someone here (not me, too lazy) to do a post comparison between the threads... and see how many people side with the dentist and blame the lion or Africa or whatever and then see the posts in here where people side with the cop or try to put arguments in for why the cop might have done what he did.

Im sure the cop was scared but it was his dumb ass fault to reach in the car. That's not how you control situations as a cop and it's definitely the way you escalate things.

I doubt most people would hold human life above an animal, let alone black lives. Hell most white people still can't believe what black people have been raised to deal with for generations.
 
I doubt most people would hold human life above an animal, let alone black lives. Hell most white people still can't believe what black people have been raised to deal with for generations.

I would like to live in the rational world you live. Please say it rains donuts there.
 

McBryBry

Member
He probably did have a reason to run.

Thats the point tho... We don't know for certain until the cops tell us more.

So speculating about whats in the bottle why didn't her open the door why didn't he produce an ID all point in a shady direction. So it doesn't need to be discussed any more, because we are all ready at that conclusion.

What happened were wondering is why a cop straight up shot him in the head because the cop was an idiot and stuck his hand in the car and got it caught as the guy was trying to resist.

I just don't understand being called a racist and cop sympathizer because I asked a simple question.
 
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