Yaphett Kotto
Member
If he is found guilty, I wouldn't put it behind them to give him a softer sentence than expected from a murder.
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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)
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DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Raised 10% of the 1mil bond. Is he married? Bet the wife leveraged the House.
Poop!
Member
His dad leveraged his home.
fastford58
Member
I have watched the video many many times now and I honestly think the cop ND'd (negligent discharge).
A few things.
Car had hardly moved before the shot went off.
Officer was in no way in a firing stance and had, in my opinion, every opportunity to take one if he was going to shoot...
...it would have made more sense for the officer to leave the vehicle, take a stance, and empty the magazine into the car.
There was NO way he had enough time to get his hand caught on anything in the vehicle that would result in a "dragging" situation.
How many times do cops only shoot once when deadly force is used?
Most people with firearms experience would really have to be in a no other choice situation to fire a weapon that close to their own face on purpose.
This is all conjecture of course.
I feel like the officer grabbed at something in the car and in the moment squeezed both hands in a sympathetic reaction to the situation.
To be clear, I am not defending the officer. If this was an ND and instead of owning up to it, he lied about it to cover it up and it is still murder in my opinion.
If he admitted to an ND, he is still incompetent and should have been dealt with in respect to that.
Either way now, he is a scum bag and a murderer given any circumstance.
A few things.
Car had hardly moved before the shot went off.
Officer was in no way in a firing stance and had, in my opinion, every opportunity to take one if he was going to shoot...
...it would have made more sense for the officer to leave the vehicle, take a stance, and empty the magazine into the car.
There was NO way he had enough time to get his hand caught on anything in the vehicle that would result in a "dragging" situation.
How many times do cops only shoot once when deadly force is used?
Most people with firearms experience would really have to be in a no other choice situation to fire a weapon that close to their own face on purpose.
This is all conjecture of course.
I feel like the officer grabbed at something in the car and in the moment squeezed both hands in a sympathetic reaction to the situation.
To be clear, I am not defending the officer. If this was an ND and instead of owning up to it, he lied about it to cover it up and it is still murder in my opinion.
If he admitted to an ND, he is still incompetent and should have been dealt with in respect to that.
Either way now, he is a scum bag and a murderer given any circumstance.
I was getting angry as I read the first several paragraphs of your post, but I ultimately agree with your conclusion. Had he not been so scared of black people that felt it necessary to walk up with his gun in front of him like he was patrolling Fallujah, there'd be one less man dead and one less man almost certainly headed for decades in prison.
fastford58
Member
That's the other thing...I don't really see a reason for the officer to have had his weapon out in that situation.
I'm really not sure what you are trying to get at here?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Even if he did not intend to fire, there is still gross negligence for even pulling out his weapon in the first place. He dove into car, putting himself at further risk. He pulled his gun without any way to control what he was doing with it. No matter how you look at it, this guy's incompetence led to the death of a guy who was driving without a front plate.
Though in the eyes of the law, I guess it does matter.
CNN says he was charged with Murder and Manslaughter. What level of Murder did they charge him with, or does Ohio not do that? Also, can you be found guilty of both Murder and Manslaughter, or is it likely the jury chooses one at the trial?
I assume he pulled his gun just as the guy started the ignition. And like I said above, him pulling his gun AND diving in the car just seems like the dumbest possible thing he could have done.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I'm sorry. Swear I've seen you state that you were a police officer. Am I mistaken?
Anton Sugar
Member
Remember, the CNN story says there are a few nearby surveillance cameras that may have captured the whole thing. Those should make it easier to see when the gun was drawn, when the car started moving, etc.
Dont know if he was charge with Murder or 2nd degree murder but one is for deliberate killing and the other is when you commit a felony and someone dies as a resul afaik.
They have 2
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Oh yeah? You got a link saying any of this?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
What if the guy saw him pull his gun and that's why he started the car and was about to speed off?
I am. It's the bit about me not mentioning the driver, saying exactly who messed up and why. I'm not understanding.
As I understood it, he was saying how even you, an officer, isn't fixating on what the driver did wrong, you are focusing on the important thing, what the officer did wrong here.
Mr. Blonde
Member
please tell us what happened since you were there
Ah. Gotcha.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah... No. He was given no lawful order. The officer needed to ask him to leave the car first and foremost which he didn't do.
What he did do was reach through the window a second after ordering the victim to take off his seatbelt the victims car started and the officer murdered him.
The only lawful thing that happened in this situation is the officer being indicted for murder.
Gravy Boat
Member
Not entirely related, but also not worth posting a separate thread for.
I came across this a few minutes ago and thought it was an interesting comparison. It shows two UK police officers taking down a guy attacking them with a knife. They use pepper sprays and batons and ultimately arrest him. Just a stark comparison between the US and UK as if this happened in the US, I don't doubt the attacker would have just been shot on sight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1itMnrt0_o
I came across this a few minutes ago and thought it was an interesting comparison. It shows two UK police officers taking down a guy attacking them with a knife. They use pepper sprays and batons and ultimately arrest him. Just a stark comparison between the US and UK as if this happened in the US, I don't doubt the attacker would have just been shot on sight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1itMnrt0_o
Crimson_Gold
Member
This requires you to value human life and to have competent training in approaches that don't require the use of a gun. I don't think those two things are emphasized here
Corronchilejano
Member
That would require actual training and for the cops to stay fit in order to be able to aprehend a suspect.
The Lamonster
Member
I haven't been keeping up to date with this story, but is this another Ferguson/Baltimore?
Are people rioting and looting over this incident?
Are people rioting and looting over this incident?
Gravy Boat
Member
I feel like they might depending on what the cop gets sentenced with.
The Lamonster
Member
Ah, okay thanks. At least he was charged with murder. It's a start!
Ferguson and Baltimore weren't even close, though.
Baltimore had one riot on whatever that first Monday was. That's it. The damages were a lot less severe, too. The rest of that week was nothing but protests.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Media framed it as endless rioting and looting for days.
Some say there are still riots to this very day.
holy fuck
You have to hand it to the cincinnati authorities. They're really showing everyone how you're supposed to deal with this kind of situations. Transparency, swift decision making, no " cop was put on leave until further investigation " bullshit etc...
They watched the video. They knew right away it was murder. They did what they had to do. Well played.
They watched the video. They knew right away it was murder. They did what they had to do. Well played.
Minorities, particularly brown-skinned ones, are subhuman to authority.
Gravy Boat
Member
Didn't the other two cops (the ones who were lying on behalf of the dude who got arrested) get paid vacation?
ryutaro's mama
Member
LOL
yeah agreed. Afterwards him constantly repeating how the car took off and he was dragged over and over is him trying to justify/rationalize the "accident" (caused by his own negligence and unnecessary actions) in his own mind.
(This isn't me defending him. He committed murder. His actions escalated the situation. The gun should have never been out in the first place. A man should not be dead right now)
EDIT after seeing the stabilized version of the video. I take back my agreement. It looks to me like the cop pushes him backward in order to get a shot. Could be wrong and ND could still have happened (maybe two squeezes - one grabbing the seatbelt and one squeezing the gun trigger), I just have more a bit more doubt now.
Anton Sugar
Member
It was the link posted earlier in this thread.
Actually looks like nearby surveillance video is being checked, but no guarantee that they have footage--my mistake:
I've only just now heard about this. Lost for words. Just...
I actually find it hard to be angry about these kinds of things because it's just so goddamned sad. Sadness overrules all other emotions here. Who was this man? What were his hopes and dreams? Where was he going? Who are his family? Will they cope without him? Did he suffer?
It's crazy to me how quickly people can turn to discussions of legalities and activism; when I hear about something like this my mind stays in a low, emotional, grieving state for quite some time. When the cunt who did this is convicted of murder it won't bring the victim back, it won't set anything right. Humanity just seems so fucking useless sometimes.
I actually find it hard to be angry about these kinds of things because it's just so goddamned sad. Sadness overrules all other emotions here. Who was this man? What were his hopes and dreams? Where was he going? Who are his family? Will they cope without him? Did he suffer?
It's crazy to me how quickly people can turn to discussions of legalities and activism; when I hear about something like this my mind stays in a low, emotional, grieving state for quite some time. When the cunt who did this is convicted of murder it won't bring the victim back, it won't set anything right. Humanity just seems so fucking useless sometimes.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Gotcha. Thanks.
Oh ... I wasn't aware of that. That sucks.
Well I guess it's still small steps in the right direction ...
LiquidSword
Member
Yeah I remember the watching the Baltimore riot and protests and being disgusted by how much media there was. I can't remember what night it was, maybe the second, but there were more media on the street than there were protesters. Geraldo was licking his mustache looking for blood.
How is that crazy? They may grieve just as much, but part of their process is to seek out solutions. Your position that convicting a murderer cop of murder "won't set anything right", to me, seems crazy and impotent.
I think you might be right, normally a cop would light up the back of the car as it sped off.
Anton Sugar
Member
Wow. Hands up, leaning AWAY from the officer.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The image stablization does show the car was moving when this happened.
I'm not justifying or defending what happened at all. Please don't quote my post insinuating that I am.
I'm not justifying or defending what happened at all. Please don't quote my post insinuating that I am.
Holy F ----- he flat out holds him in place by grabbing the seatbelt in order to perfectly line up the execution shot.
Lock this guy up and throw away the key.
Oh, and immediately institute psychological screening for all current and future police officers, to be held on at least a yearly basis.
Slowing that down to 1/4 speed and focusing on the cop car behind them, it really doesn't look like the car is moving until after the shot. And at no point do I see the cop being dragged in the slightest. He shoots and then tumbles backwards out of the way of the finally moving vehicle. His gun arm is moving freely. His other arm (after he lets go of the seatbelt that HE grabs) is on the edge of the window/door and free as well.
LookAtMeGo
Member
It does? I dont see it move until he is already dead.
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