LiquidSword
Member
Okay...well I've watched it a few times and cannot see any evidence that the car is moving before he is shot. Maybe I'm missing something?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
- Status
Okay...well I've watched it a few times and cannot see any evidence that the car is moving before he is shot. Maybe I'm missing something?
Yup. Still murder. Second degree for sure. He must've pulled his gun as soon as the guy started the car. Disgusting.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The police car in the background shrinks and the reflections off of the car look like the car is rolling slowly as it happens
Even with the video slowed down, somehow we'll still have plenty of people saying he was dragged and in fear of his life. The cop took his gun out right when the car was turned on and his body wasn't inside the car. How could he be in fear of his life?
I guess people see what they want to see.
LiquidSword
Member
So earlier in thread I saw that this murderer was bailed out by people donating money (for reasons that are very clear i.e. Got another thug off the street). Anyway my question is that bail is returned to you in full if you show up for court, but what happens with this crowd funded stuff? Is this cop going to come out of this with a cool million dollars? Maybe a little off topic, but I couldn't find anything about what happened in all these other cop cases that people donated toward their bail.
LookAtMeGo
Member
If you look out the passenger side window the truck in the driveway does not move until he is shot.
Z_Y
Member
I'm not seeing that as clearly as you are. Not being a smartass but what are you looking at to determine that? Genuinely asking.
Even if the car was moving it couldn't have been moving very fast because the cop was keeping up with him laterally. Also, he appears to fall straight back. If he was moving forward along with the car (being dragged) he would have rolled a bit, I would think.
edit: I see you answered above. It looks he was already shot before the car started rolling to me.
Holy fuck, how did I miss the information that Tensing (murderer) and the other cop (complicit liar) were the same cops responsible for the death of a man Tensing tasered to death (while the other held him down) in 2010?
Of course, after verifying their reports, their superiors said they acted with "sound judgment," but that would have been the case here without the body cam.
He will get his money back only after the whole thing is over. If Tensing is found guilty, the father will only get a percentage back.
Of course, after verifying their reports, their superiors said they acted with "sound judgment," but that would have been the case here without the body cam.
Let's get the facts straight: People said they would donate to his bail. They offered to donate. They may have even started some, but the one who bailed Tensing out was his own father, who mortgaged his own home to pay 10% of the million-dollar bail.
He will get his money back only after the whole thing is over. If Tensing is found guilty, the father will only get a percentage back.
I dunno. Look at the truck in the driveway through the passenger window. It is there before and after the shot even through the cop perspective change while falling. IF he is moving during that 2 seconds (I think that is a big if because I don't see it), he hasn't rolled more than a couple feet at most before dying.
The driver had his hands up in the air. The cop pushes him back to get a clear shot at his head.
Unfuckingbelievable.
holy shit. It looks much much worse for for the cop now. That doesn't look like a "ND" at all. Fuck.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Yeah, it accelerates rapidly once he is shot, which is what causes the cop to fall
It looks like it slowly rolling for the couple seconds prior, to me at least.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
...
...
Murder. Straight up unjustified homicide. Fucking hell. He just fucking shot that man for no reason. Holy shit.
So let's say the car did move when the struggle. So what? Was it malicious? I've Never been in a life or death struggle but I imagine I'll to ever thing my body will allow to escape. Can he be at fault for that? Surely you understand now that it was warranted because the dude did shoot him in the head.
Pyramid head
Banned
Nope. Looked for what your talking about 5 times and I'm not seeing it. The cop doesn't lose his balance until after he shot the victim in the head. Unless he was wearing rollerblades I don't see how he glided along with a moving car while pinning the guy down and popping him in the head.
LookAtMeGo
Member
If this guy does not get convicted with murder, shit is going to go down.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
If it was a negligent discharge, then it was a negligent discharge and he should be charged with negligent homicide under Ohio's laws. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.05
Lying about it afterwards doesn't somehow elevate the crime from negligent homicide to murder, because it doesn't change the intent of the officer at the time he pulled the trigger. However, lying in his report does most likely violate other laws dealing with filing false reports and/or obstructing justice.
So if you're taking the position that it was a negligent discharge, you can't also take the position that the guy is a murderer. They're incompatible points of view.
Brian Griffin
Member
Images for discussion
Officer approaches car. Pay attention to the car parked in the driveway in the background for reference of possible forward movement. To be clear, ANY forward movement is no cause for lethal force and the officer should have never put hands inside the car at all.
Hands up, right before the shot.
Right after the shot, hands down, head recoiling.
Officer approaches car. Pay attention to the car parked in the driveway in the background for reference of possible forward movement. To be clear, ANY forward movement is no cause for lethal force and the officer should have never put hands inside the car at all.
Hands up, right before the shot.
Right after the shot, hands down, head recoiling.
Vicetrailia
Member
That was a deliberate execution. There is no need to argue or entertain defenders.
Well, that should put the little doubt to rest. But it won't unfortunately. Definitely not a negligent discharge.
They should review every single case this "cop" has ever been a part of.
Edit: From the pics, either the camera moved or the car moved. I'm thinking it was the camera.
They should review every single case this "cop" has ever been a part of.
Edit: From the pics, either the camera moved or the car moved. I'm thinking it was the camera.
Pyramid head
Banned
From where I'm sitting my view of the driveway over the road, through the window, is completely blocked by a curtain. Whithout moving my body, I can tilt my head 45 degrees and I have a full view of the driveway and the 2 cars parked on it.Images for discussion
Office approaches car. Pay attention to the car parked in the driveway in the background for reference of possible forward movement. To be clear, ANY forward movement is no cause for lethal force and the officer should have never put hands inside the car at all.
Hands up, right before the shot.
Right after the shot, hands down, head recoiling.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The cop went out of his way to get a clear shot at the guy's head. Absolutely no way it could be argued as an accident or unintentional. It was clear intent to murder.
Ohio has Aggravated Murder, Murder, Voluntary Manslaughter and Involuntary Manslaughter: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903 If I had to guess, he was charged with Murder and Voluntary Manslaughter, based upon their definitions in the code.
You cannot be convicted of both murder and manslaughter for the same homicide, as the intent element of each is different. Murder, here, is purposely causing the death of another without immediate provocation, while voluntary manslaughter is knowingly causing the death of another "while under the influence of sudden passion or in a sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force." With voluntary manslaughter, the severity of the offense is lessened because the perpetrator's actions were incited in some way by the victim. With murder, however, there is provocation to mitigate the perpetrator's actions. So, in Ohio, you either have provocation, and it's voluntary manslaughter, or you don't, and it's murder. You can't have it both ways.
Now the State can charge both murder and manslaughter and it can try to prove both in its case, but the jury can only convict on one.
Interesting and sad.....this is the first time I've read anything about negligent discharge being a possibility, mainly because the officer's report failed to indicate this.
This very well could have been the case.
The one thing we know as 100% fact is that the officer's report is BS ---- he was not in danger and was not justified in pulling the gun, let alone pulling the trigger.
The guy is either a cold-blooded murderer or an incompetent fool. Either way, he needs to be locked up, either for flat out murder or negligent homicide.
So tragic for both parties if it really was an accidental discharge. The officer might have had a fighting chance at a little legitimate public support if he had owned up to it as such (or lied about it, if he had willingly pulled the trigger) in the initial police report. As it stands, he is either a lying fool or a psychotic murderer.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Geezuz..
Could easily be a slight perspective change/shift (the perspective seems more forward and a tad bit right - in order to reach in with the gun). But it could also easily be the car began a roll forward of a foot or two.
In my mind, neither scenario changes the fact that a gun shouldn't have been drawn. And the cop's story about being dragged and shooting over a fear of being run over remains bullshit
For the record and before I get jumped on by others, I wasn't saying it was negligent discharge. I was merely responding to the guy that said he thought it was negligent discharge, but that he also felt the guy was a murderer.
Though I do agree with you, that negligent discharge was the best defense that this guy could have made for himself, knowing he was wearing a body cam. Instead, he decided to compound his actions by making up a lie about being dragged and being in fear of his life.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Would make a sarcastic remark regarding the apologists and people who strong arm the bottle/ID arguments, but that video was too horrid for that.
That's just fucking disgusting. I hope this dude gets life no parole.
That's just fucking disgusting. I hope this dude gets life no parole.
Brian Griffin
Member
Agreed.
Beer Monkey
Member
Still hoping footage from another angle shows up because juries.
Anton Sugar
Member
I would love for more footage to show up. Even if the vehicle was moving, it's clear that it was not moving at a dangerous speed until after he is dead.
And neither scenario makes sense to shoot the guy.
What does shooting a guy in the head who is allegedly flooring a vehicle really accomplish? How would it stop you from getting pulled under?
(note: I do not believe he was flooring it, even if the car was moving you'd hear audio of him flooring it)
gutterboy44
Member
Holy shit at the image stabilized version. He is holding DuBose to get a better shot at him. His actions to murder him could not be any more clear. He shot a man in the face for no fucking reason. Disgusting.
Vicetrailia
Member
The officer grabbed his seat belt to stabilize and line up his shot.
fastford58
Member
That may be the case in the eyes of the law, but if you are going to accidentally kill someone and lie about it, then you might as well have just intended to kill in the first place in my opinion. I label him as a murderer in this case whether or not the law does.
So yes, in my eyes, in either case he is a murderer. Whether or not the law agrees with that is moot. It is how I personally view the situation.
Do you consider George Zimmerman a murderer despite what the law said? I do.
Yes, either that or he was grabbing the seatbelt to force compliance while pulling his gun (stupidly) and reflexively/accidentally pulled the trigger.
The realtime version really is most easily explained by negligent discharge. He should still get pegged for homicide. Having never even considered accidental discharge before a few minutes ago, however, it really is what makes the most sense after watching the entire thing. It especially explains how it just all escalated so rapidly and was over so quickly.
EDIT: I think we all should stop talking about whether the car was moving and the officer was being dragged. It clearly was moving very little, if at all, and was not a threat to the officer (or even a legitimate perceived threat).
The question should really be how likely is it that this was a negligent discharge vs. a premeditated, cold-blooded murder.
CadetMahoney
Member
What would happen if he gets found "innocent" in court? Or something rediculous like manslaughter 1 (weakest)?
I'm having a really hard time believing this was negligent discharge with slowed down video or screen caps.
He stabilizes himself, points the gun at the guys face and fires.
He had to awkwardly twist his wrist the opposite position he'd want it in if he was merely flailing and grabbing and not thinking about the gun in his hand.
He stabilizes himself, points the gun at the guys face and fires.
He had to awkwardly twist his wrist the opposite position he'd want it in if he was merely flailing and grabbing and not thinking about the gun in his hand.
wow.
Nah, I think it's part that phenomenon talked about where blacks have to know every letter of the law, while whites who've never really had to stress it, don't. Pretty sure cops prey on that as well.
gutterboy44
Member
Re-watch the stabilized version at .25 speed on youtube. He positions both himself and DuBose to get a shot. The gun doesn't fire until he aimed it at his head. If his arm or the gun was at an odd angle, maybe I could entertain accidental discharge, but everything about it screams intent to me.
Edit: You can even see him raise his arm to get a better angle on the shot.
Pretty hard to argue against this, not looking good for the Cop at all. In the original video it was hard to tell (in my eyes) exactly what happened but this is pretty clear.
Pretty fucking sad.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked