Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)

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DrForester said:
If I was in any way defending the cop in this situation, it would have been stupid, but that's not what I was doing. If you had read my other comments on this very page, you'd see I brought up that the video offers absolutely zero evidence that the cop thought the victim was intoxicated.
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Yea, my bad I guess. It's just been very draining to read through this thread and all the 'well what's in the bottle' or 'to play devils advocate' and even 'compliance would have prevented this'...

For my eyes this is a clear cut case of cold blooded murder. So for me I'm not looking to assign tidbits of blame around. Sam could have had Unicorns and Rainbows in his tox report and it still doesn't matter. All of the blame rests on the professionally trained policeman to conduct a minor traffic stop without killing a human being.
 
riotous said:
That doesn't make them equally as dangerous.. what percentage of point blank head shots end in death?

What percentage of police pursuits end in death?

Pursuits are a controversial topic though; many especially here on GAF are anti-Police pursuit in most situations. Gather all the evidence you can and catch the guy later is the better option many times IMO.
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I was saying shooting at a fleeing suspect is as dangerous, according to those stats, obviously not the same as point blank shots to the head. The stats also say one person dies a day from a chase. The last count I saw was there were only 12 days this year a cop didn't kill someone with their gun, but they're also killing more than one per day on those days.

Basically your last sentence is what I was trying to articulate. Don't shoot, don't pursue; you'll get them later.
 
Boke1879 said:
I don't deal with this stuff too often but I do believe if you post bond and you show up to court when you're supposed to you get your money back.
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Only if you pay your own bail.

The bail bondsmen is basically a system to loan people the money to pay the full bail.

The 8-15% you give the bondsman is like your interest payment on the loan. The bail bondsman takes a risk because if you flee they don't get their money back from the court, and have to pursue you for the rest of the money.

Bail is returned if you fulfill your appearances in court, but it is returned to the bond company if you used one and they keep the premium they charged you.
 
j_k_redtail said:
Finally watched the video. I agree with the prosecutor and the chief: Dubose did nothing to deserve death, and the fact that Tensing (and others!) fabricated their report makes the incident all the more heinous. We tend to give the police the benefit of the doubt because we expect them to tell the truth. If the shooting was justifiable, then why lie about it? Why make up a statement about "being dragged?"

One would hope that an officer wouldn't panic during a traffic stop, shoot a guy, lie about it, and then enlist other officers in the lie. Nothing about that is defensible.

Hopefully he goes away for a long time. Thank God for body cameras.
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Which is a huge part of the problem. We should expect them to lie to cover their own asses like every other random fuck wipe will do in their shitty job.
 
Boke1879 said:
I don't deal with this stuff too often but I do believe if you post bond and you show up to court when you're supposed to you get your money back.
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A slight correction: Bail is what would be posted. A bond is a surety by a bondsman and the defendant that you'll show for court--a temp loan. They'll never get that 10% back from the bondsman.

Now back to the discussion of the murder.

riotous said:
Only if you pay your own bail.

The bail bondsmen is basically a system to loan people the money to pay the full bail.

The 8-15% you give the bondsman is like your interest payment on the loan. The bail bondsman takes a risk because if you flee they don't get their money back from the court, and have to pursue you for the rest of the money.

Bail is returned if you fulfill your appearances in court, but it is returned to the bond company if you used one and they keep the premium they charged you.
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ETA: Beaten.
 
shem935 said:
....I had never seen that footage.
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It's what I think of when people bring up the 'if only he'd cooperated' line of reasoning. Aside from being odious victim blaming ("if only she'd not worn that dress at night") we have ample evidence that cooperating does not necessarily prevent police violence, particularly against minorities.
 
GhaleonEB said:
It's what I think of when people bring up the 'if only he'd cooperated' line of reasoning. Aside from being odious victim blaming ("if only she'd not worn that dress at night") we have ample evidence that cooperating does not necessarily prevent police violence, particularly against minorities.
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Strange. Every time someone brings up this comparison, it's called out as being stupid/not the same at all. What to believe..
 
Gordon Shumway said:
Strange. Every time someone brings up this comparison, it's called out as being stupid/not the same at all. What to believe..
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The only people I saw calling it out were those defending the officer.

No one is saying the situations are the same, we're saying the logic used to absolve the attacker/police and attack the victim is the same.
 
Gordon Shumway said:
Strange. Every time someone brings up this comparison, it's called out as being stupid/not the same at all. What to believe..
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commedieu said:
I too have noticed this, and I've been called stupid/irrational/whatever for the same comparison.
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It's an extreme comparison, but in both cases it boils down to victim blaming. What could the victim have done differently to avoid what happened to them. Pretty much any crime victim could have done something differently to avoid what happened to them. It's something that really has no place in the conversation, as no matter how you spin it, it's not their fault, and no attempt should be made to make them (or their family) think it was.
 
commedieu said:
I too have noticed this, and I've been called stupid/irrational/whatever for the same comparison. However, I don't trust myself, at times.
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You were one of the people who I was thinking of, man. Always getting shit for it..
Anton Sugar said:
The only people I saw calling it out were those defending the officer.

No one is saying the situations are the same, we're saying the logic used to absolve the attacker/police and attack the victim is the same.
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DrForester said:
It's an extreme comparison, but in both cases it boils down to victim blaming. What could the victim have done differently to avoid what happened to them. Pretty much any crime victim could have done something differently to avoid what happened to them. It's something that really has no place in the conversation, as no matter how you spin it, it's not their fault, and no attempt should be made to make them (or their family) think it was.
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Agree with both of you..
 
commedieu said:
I too have noticed this, and I've been called stupid/irrational/whatever for the same comparison. However, I don't trust myself, at times.
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There was a guy into Sandra Bland thread calling me and another poster disgusting for making that comparison. He kept doubling down on it until he was finally banned.
 
People should go back and read the comments by the people who were banned in this thread. That is why this officer could very well be found not guilty at trial.
 
Just saw a quote from the defense lawyer that he received calls from people who wanted to donate to his defense and his bail. Now that is absolutely anyone's right to do so.

I just feel those people donating don't care about any sort of truth. The video is pretty damn clear. They will take the side of the cop no matter what.

This is why by and large I don't think any major change can occur. Too many people willing to defend the status quo.
 
Ayt said:
People should go back and read the comments by the people who were banned in this thread. That is why this officer could very well be found not guilty at trial.
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One thing I think people need to try to understand is the greater issue surrounding those beliefs. I think people get offended when its claimed to be racially biased to believe otherwise... In reality I believe these people to be brainwashed. From the moment were born we are told to listen to the cops... When we get our license people exchange techniques on how to get by the cops. Its part of culture to see these guys as all powerful. You see somebody talking back to an officer (justifiable and unfortunately I'm guilty of snapping back at unnecessary nonsense and almost getting hauled away for literally nothing) some people see that and think its the end of the world, when in reality police are not above the law, and we have the right to call them on that when neccasary.
 
msdstc said:
One thing I think people need to try to understand is the greater issue surrounding those beliefs. I think people get offended when its claimed to be racially biased to believe otherwise... In reality I believe these people to be brainwashed. From the moment were born we are told to listen to the cops... When we get our license people exchange techniques on how to get by the cops. Its part of culture to see these guys as all powerful. You see somebody talking back to an officer (justifiable and unfortunately I'm guilty of snapping back at unnecessary nonsense and almost getting hauled away for literally nothing) some people see that and think its the end of the world, when in reality police are not above the law, and we have the right to call them on that when neccasary.
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Your post isn't wrong, and I agree, though I would say it's a combination of police indoctrination and racial bias.

It's interesting to watch how well those two things seem to work together.
 
Boke1879 said:
Just saw a quote from the defense lawyer that he received calls from people who wanted to donate to his defense and his bail. Now that is absolutely anyone's right to do so.

I just feel those people donating don't care about any sort of truth. The video is pretty damn clear. They will take the side of the cop no matter what.

This is why by and large I don't think any major change can occur. Too many people willing to defend the status quo.
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"Ever since the bond was set, I've received calls from around the country from people wanting to contribute to it," Mathews said. "I think people feel like he's getting railroaded here in Cincinnati. You'd have to be blind not to see that.”

Mathews said he has received calls from across the nation with offers to help Tensing. He did not disclose the number of calls and offers.

The attorney said he's not sure he will accept those offers.

"I'm not prepared to do anything like that, but there are a lot of people who are prepared to help," Mathews told ABC News. "His family is attempting to raise it through family members. I'm not sure where we are with it." -Attorney
 
Link.

Tensing posted bond later in the day, according to the Hamilton County Clerk of Courts' website. His next court date is set for August 19.
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Tensing, 25, surrendered to authorities shortly after news of the indictment broke. He has been fired from his job and, if convicted, could go to prison for life.

Tensing's attorney believes the officer feared for his life.

"The guy jams the keys in the ignition," Stew Mathews told CNN.

"Turns the car on, jams it (into) drive and mashes the accelerator. He wasn't slowly pulling away. (Tensing) feared for his life. He thought he was going to be sucked under the car that was pulling away from him. He thought he was going to get sucked under and killed."

Mathews said that Tensing thought he could reach into the car and get the key out of the ignition and stop DuBose from leaving.
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Xcellere said:
"Ever since the bond was set, I've received calls from around the country from people wanting to contribute to it," Mathews said. "I think people feel like he's getting railroaded here in Cincinnati. You'd have to be blind not to see that.”

Mathews said he has received calls from across the nation with offers to help Tensing. He did not disclose the number of calls and offers.

The attorney said he's not sure he will accept those offers.

"I'm not prepared to do anything like that, but there are a lot of people who are prepared to help," Mathews told ABC News. "His family is attempting to raise it through family members. I'm not sure where we are with it." -Attorney
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Yup that's it. I feel as long as that goes on nothing will get changed because I feel the video speaks for itself and when current and former cops say it's bad and no justification for it. You'll always have that group that feels the cop did no wrong and "feared" for his life.

I honestly feel if any officer says they feared for their life when it comes to a person of color. Most of the time the sympathy is with the officer.
 
blankempathy said:
I understand what you are trying to say but in the context it was shooting someone point blank in the head. Not shooting at a fleeing suspect. Obviously they cleared it up afterwards.
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But its not so cut and dry and I believe you know that, but again I don't wanna derail.

Chie Satonaka said:
Your post isn't wrong, and I agree, though I would say it's a combination of police indoctrination and racial bias.

It's interesting to watch how well those two things seem to work together.
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Yeah I definitely agree. I just feel for some of the people who are called out as racist for genuinely believing the cops are always right. It stems from another massive issue with the police as a whole.
 
msdstc said:
One thing I think people need to try to understand is the greater issue surrounding those beliefs. I think people get offended when its claimed to be racially biased to believe otherwise... In reality I believe these people to be brainwashed. From the moment were born we are told to listen to the cops... When we get our license people exchange techniques on how to get by the cops. Its part of culture to see these guys as all powerful. You see somebody talking back to an officer (justifiable and unfortunately I'm guilty of snapping back at unnecessary nonsense and almost getting hauled away for literally nothing) some people see that and think its the end of the world, when in reality police are not above the law, and we have the right to call them on that when neccasary.
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I can definitely see it as brainwashing myself, with some racist beliefs fueling the flames. I think part of it also is that the US hero-fies police work, as if it is the possibility of performing acts of genuine courage that truly is the reason why people want to become cops, and with that line of thinking, well-off Americans (typically white people, but minorities can too) deny that a cop could do anything wrong. In reality, it seems the majority of cops don't really care for "protecting and serving" and more of pushing around people (mostly blacks and other minorities). Go in with the belief you are helping, stay for the feeling of power over those who are "weaker".

I'm a white guy, and my only major run-in with the cops was relatively unpleasant (and yes, my friends and I were completely compliant, and it was over NOTHING). If we were black, or any ethnicity that wasn't white, I think it would have went so much worse. From "colossal dicks" to "potential killers" worse.

Edit: This isn't to say that there aren't racists who defend cops. Of course they exist
 
commedieu said:
But who will people believe? The video, or their lying eyes..?
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I LOVE twitter. Used to love Facebook but just too many ads and dumb stuff.

But I love the medium that twitter has become. But on the other side it shows how many people justify this.

Seriously just go into one of the hashtags. You'll many people justifying these acts and it's quite disgusting.
 
DrForester said:
The cop was an idiot for diving into the car. If the guy is about to flee, I have to imagine that's the last thing you would want to do.

Anyone from Cop-GAF able to clarify if that's ever the proper course of action? Seems like it would instantly put the officer at more risk.
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We are trained to never reach into a vehicle because many things can happen and most of them are bad.
 
Beer Monkey said:
Surely their #1 priority right now is finding some way to make the video inadmissable.
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Either that or they'll have to try to convince people the video isn't conclusive.

I truly hope nobody buys that but I don't know what the hell else they can argue The lawyer is doubling down on the "he floored it" comment.
 
riotous said:
Either that or they'll have to try to convince people the video isn't conclusive.

I truly hope nobody buys that but I don't know what the hell else they can argue The lawyer is doubling down on the "he floored it" comment.
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I mean..his dead body certainly got that car going! Can't argue there..
 
Beer Monkey said:
Surely their #1 priority right now is finding some way to make the video inadmissable.
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All the defense attorney has to do is establish reasonable doubt that the officer truly felt like the suspect was going to take off and he would get dragged by the car and possibly ran over, which would cause serious physical harm or potentially death.

All they have to prove is that a reasonable officer might do the same thing in the same situation with the same knowledge as the officer. It can't be viewed with hindsight, it has to be considered in real time with how the officer viewed the situation.

Unfortunately that is a very low bar for the defense to hit. Add in the victims criminal history and you can see where this is going to go.

As much as I want the officer to be held accountable, I'm afraid he will get away with it. A possible saving grace will be the racial tensions that already exist in Cincinnati and the fear of riots again.
 
Tedesco! said:
I can't believe that there are people donating money to the defense fund of this piece of shit.
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Sadly, lynchings have always been crowd pleasers.

7-Beitler-photo-best.jpg
(graphic image)
 
Tedesco! said:
Meanwhile my nephew with Juvinile Arthritis can't find enough people to help him raise $10,000.
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Your nephew has to say racist shit and get promo'd on Fox. Maybe even shoot someone /s

I hope things work out for your nephew!

Feels really bad that I kind of expect this campus cop probably has a chance to get away with nothing but a slap on the wrist and...fame/money.
 
HeySeuss said:
All the defense attorney has to do is establish reasonable doubt that the officer truly felt like the suspect was going to take off and he would get dragged by the car and possibly ran over, which would cause serious physical harm or potentially death.

All they have to prove is that a reasonable officer might do the same thing in the same situation with the same knowledge as the officer. It can't be viewed with hindsight, it has to be considered in real time with how the officer viewed the situation.
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I hope there isn't a jury stupid enough to fall for that, but the cynical side of me knows that there is.
 
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