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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)

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A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Gordon Shumway said:
What kills me is dude even says sorry..AND HE'S BEEN SHOT FOR COMPLYING. Obey, disobey..it's whatever the dude holding the gun decides. Getting pulled over is like playing involuntary Russian roulette..
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I can't imagine how terrified he is, like he'd apologize if the cop straight up shot him even without his shit reason.
 
R

ReAxion

Member
DrForester said:
I have to imagine there was. I think had he been drunk there would not be any charges against the officer. I think the argument could be made that a drunk driver is a clear threat to the community and shooting him as he was about to flee would be justified. But nothing in the video even suggested the officer thought he was drunk.
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I think they already dealt with that.

Hassiah v. Walton (6th Cir. 1982), 676 F. 2d 208 -- Ohio law does not authorize the use of gunfire to stop a fleeing misdemeanant. At 215: "Police employment of gunfire to effect the capture of a citizen who is fleeing from the law can, of course, be justifies in some circumstances. It is justifiable to prevent the escape of a person known to have committed or be in the process of committing a felony involving violence. It is justifiable, also, on self-defense grounds if the fleeing person by his or her actions endangers the life or limbs of the pursuing officer."
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And there was no violent felony known or in process.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
The cop lied because he knew what he did was bullshit. I'm at such a loss as to why anyone is defending the actions of a person who lied to everyone because he knew he fucked up. The cop himself knows the situation can't be justified, but some of you are still there for him. What the fuck is going on?
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
The cop lied because he knew what he did was bullshit. I'm at such a loss as to why anyone is defending the actions of a person who lied to everyone because he knew he fucked up. The cop himself knows the situation can't be justified, but some of you are still there for him. What the fuck is going on?
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Do you not see that he is the victim? He was forced to deal with a non compliant minority male. His pride was hurt. He has quotas to make. He couldn't just let this be. Dubose made the mistake of believing the officer didn't have the right to reach in his car. Hell, he should've volunteered to get out of the car. Then, and only then, would we know that he has nothing to hide.

This is the world we live in
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
Crimson_Gold said:
Do you not see that he is the victim? He was forced to deal with a non compliant minority male. His pride was hurt. He has quotas to make. He couldn't just let this be. Dubose made the mistake of believing the officer didn't have the right to reach in his car. Hell, he should've volunteered to get out of the car. Then, and only then, would we know that he has nothing to hide.

This is the world we live in
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Questioning or failure to comply with white supremacy is a crime often punishable by death.
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
Depressing that almost none of the media coverage lately mentions that other police corroborated this guy's blatantly false story before the video came out.
 
J

j_k_redtail

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
The cop lied because he knew what he did was bullshit. I'm at such a loss as to why anyone is defending the actions of a person who lied to everyone because he knew he fucked up. The cop himself knows the situation can't be justified, but some of you are still there for him. What the fuck is going on?
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See, this is exactly my point. It's pretty hard for me to see the officer's actions as justifiable if he lied to cover it up.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Armaros said:
The blue wall also extends into the media about how they dont talk about the blue wall.
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Y'all should check this out if you haven't yet: The curious grammar of police shootings

You’re probably familiar with the weaselly way politicians tend to apologize when they’ve been caught red-handed. The most famous example is the use of the line, mistakes were made. Use of the passive voice in an admission of wrongdoing has become so common that the political consultant William Schneider suggested a few years ago that it be referred to as the “past exonerative” tense.

You’ll often see a similar grammatical device when a police officer shoots someone. Communications officers at policy agenies are deft at contorting the English language to minimize culpability of an officer or of the agency. So instead of . . .

. . . Mayberry Dep. Barney Fife shot and killed a burglary suspect last night . . .
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You’ll see . . .

. . . last night, a burglary suspect was shot and killed in an officer-involved shooting.
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It’s a way of describing a shooting without assigning responsibility. Most police departments do this.
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Not directly related, but fascinating (and repugnant).
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
ReAxion said:
I think they already dealt with that.



And there was no violent felony known or in process.
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Interesting that "life and limb of the public" isn't mentioned. I have to be honest, when this story first came out, and the assumption was that the victim as drunk, I sided with the officer. I personally would agree that a drunk driver who flees is an immediate threat to the public. I would not celebrate their death, but I would not fault the officer.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Also, why are some of you acting like shooting a fleeing person is brave or necessary? It's the most cowardly thing one could do in these situations. Walter Scott didn't deserve it, and if you somehow think in the shaky cam split second that this happened that Sam Dubose was attempting to flee, he didn't deserve it either.
 
S

SheSaidNo

Member
Wow the prosecutor really went in on him. Just shows you that one of the best ways to combat police brutality is being informed and voting in local elections vs just voting in the president election. Prosecutors are usually the ones setting the policy for each city regarding incarnation and sentencing for minor and drug related crimes and charging policy officers
 
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DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Also, why are some of you acting like shooting a fleeing person is brave or necessary? It's the most cowardly thing one could do in these situations. Walter Scott didn't deserve it, and if somehow think in the shaky cam split second that this happened that Sam Dubose was attempting to flee, he didn't deserve it either.
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The cop was an idiot for diving into the car. If the guy is about to flee, I have to imagine that's the last thing you would want to do.

Anyone from Cop-GAF able to clarify if that's ever the proper course of action? Seems like it would instantly put the officer at more risk.
 
R

ReAxion

Member
DrForester said:
Interesting that "life and limb of the public" isn't mentioned. I have to be honest, when this story first came out, and the assumption was that the victim as drunk, I sided with the officer. I personally would agree that a drunk driver who flees is an immediate threat to the public. I would not celebrate their death, but I would not fault the officer.
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It might be, that was just part of a whole ruling.
But firing a gun creates a new immediate threat to the public. We all know they're not marksmen.

Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Also, why are some of you acting like shooting a fleeing person is brave or necessary? It's the most cowardly thing one could do in these situations. Walter Scott didn't deserve it, and if you somehow think in the shaky cam split second that this happened that Sam Dubose was attempting to flee, he didn't deserve it either.
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Engaging them in a pursuit is just as dangerous, as well.

DrForester said:
Anyone from Cop-GAF able to clarify if that's ever the proper course of action? Seems like it would instantly put the officer at more risk.
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Experts dissecting the Sandra Bland stop say it's not, unless there was a danger, of course. Which, at that time, there wasn't - proven by the officer handing the bottle back to the suspect.
 
C

cwmartin

Member
DrForester said:
I have to imagine there was. I think had he been drunk there would not be any charges against the officer. I think the argument could be made that a drunk driver is a clear threat to the community and shooting him as he was about to flee would be justified. But nothing in the video even suggested the officer thought he was drunk.
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This still doesn't make sense. We don't sentence drunk drivers to death even if they killed someone as a result of their drunk driving. This isn't minority report, we don't execute people on the off chance their future actions may be tragic.
 
DietRob

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
DrForester said:
I have to imagine there was. I think had he been drunk there would not be any charges against the officer. I think the argument could be made that a drunk driver is a clear threat to the community and shooting him as he was about to flee would be justified. But nothing in the video even suggested the officer thought he was drunk.
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No, just no. Drunk driving is bad and all that but it's not punishable by death. It's really sickening to see all the stretching and maneuvering going on in here so that someway somehow we can blame the bad scary black man for being murdered. Get your head out of your ass.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
DietRob said:
No, just no. Drunk driving is bad and all that but it's not punishable by death. It's really sickening to see all the stretching and maneuvering going on in here so that someway somehow we can blame the bad scary black man for being murdered. Get your head out of your ass.
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You're right. I've been on the cops side this entire thread...
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
cwmartin said:
Engaging in a pursuit is just as dangerous as shooting someone point blank in the head?
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It is now. The rules of engagement and reality shifts whenever there is an incident involving the police and a black man. You have to realize anything can happen. Because of this, lethal force is always justified. You can't trust them to not destroy everything. They actually think they deserve rights and other awful things.

Why is this happening? Why are people finding "reasons" why this is OK? I guess when you don't see people that look just like you exterminated for being outside.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
DietRob said:
I have no idea what you have been doing this entire thread. I only know what you did in that last post I quoted and it was stupid.
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If I was in any way defending the cop in this situation, it would have been stupid, but that's not what I was doing. If you had read my other comments on this very page, you'd see I brought up that the video offers absolutely zero evidence that the cop thought the victim was intoxicated.
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-sets-million-bond-cincinnati-cop-accused-murdering/story?id=32779907

The two cops who corroborated the lies get the standard "administrative leave."
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I don't know why I let myself expect more.

Log4Girlz said:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/30/samuel-dubose-officers-kelly-brinson

and they were involved in another death of an unarmed black man a few years back
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You can't make this stuff up
 
B

blankempathy

Member
ReAxion said:
Engaging them in a pursuit is just as dangerous, as well.



Experts dissecting the Sandra Bland stop say it's not, unless there was a danger, of course. Which, at that time, there wasn't - proven by the officer handing the bottle back to the suspect.
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Its not dangerous to dive into a car? Of course there was a danger. He was starting his car. Theres a good chance he was about to drive off. So no diving into a moving car is not the smart thing to do and im sure the defense is going to argue that the officer was in immediate danger of being ran over so thats why he fired his gun. However he was in danger because he placed himself there. Had he merely backed away from the car that was possibly about to drive off he would of been fine. Then he would of called for backup while running to his cruiser. You arent going to stop someones car if they dont want you too. You dont have the leverage to over power someone and turn off their engine from that position nor possibly stop them from shifting into drive. On top of that you wouldnt be able to stop the guy from hitting the gas pedal as well. And yes a police chase is dangerous however its not an immediate danger as say a gun point blank.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Don't think I've seen this posted, maybe it will cheer us all up a bit.

80EW7HK.jpg


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/u...f-cincinnati-officer-charged-with-murder.html
A judge set bail at $1 million on Thursday for the former University of Cincinnati police officer who shot and killed a motorist, after a traffic stop over a missing license plate.
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R

ReAxion

Member
cwmartin said:
Engaging in a pursuit is just as dangerous as shooting someone point blank in the head?
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Yes.

Police chases have killed nearly as many people as justifiable police shootings, according to government figures, which are widely thought to under count fatal shootings.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/30/police-pursuits-fatal-injuries/30187827/

Key word there being justifiable, but still makes ya go "whoa"

blankempathy said:
Its not dangerous to dive into a car? Of course there was a danger. He was starting his car. Theres a good chance he was about to drive off. So no diving into a moving car is not the smart thing to do and im sure the defense is going to argue that the officer was in immediate danger of being ran over so thats why he fired his gun. However he was in danger because he placed himself there. Had he merely backed away from the car that was possibly about to drive off he would of been fine. Then he would of called for backup while running to his cruiser. You arent going to stop someones car if they dont want you too. You dont have the leverage to over power someone and turn off their engine from that position nor possibly stop them from shifting into drive. On top of that you wouldnt be able to stop the guy from hitting the gas pedal as well. And yes a police chase is dangerous however its not an immediate danger as say a gun point blank.
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Yes, I have already posted this as a violation of proper procedure for the officer. He created the danger in escalating the situation.
 
R

riotous

Banned
ReAxion said:
Yes.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/30/police-pursuits-fatal-injuries/30187827/

Key word there being justifiable, but still makes ya go "whoa".
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That doesn't make them equally as dangerous.. what percentage of point blank head shots end in death?

What percentage of police pursuits end in death?

Pursuits are a controversial topic though; many especially here on GAF are anti-Police pursuit in most situations. Gather all the evidence you can and catch the guy later is the better option many times IMO.
 
Y

Yaphett Kotto

Member
DrForester said:
So how the hell does bond work, I know you have to put up 10% of the amount, but does whoever put that put get it back so long as he appears in court? Does it depend on the verdict?
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You do get it back if you appear in court. Don't know about the verdict part. Maybe someone else with better legal knowledge can tell you.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
DrForester said:
So how the hell does bond work, I know you have to put up 10% of the amount, but does whoever put that put get it back so long as he appears in court? Does it depend on the verdict?
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I don't deal with this stuff too often but I do believe if you post bond and you show up to court when you're supposed to you get your money back.
 
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