I do.
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Circumcision.. What do Evolutionary Biologists/Naturalists/Darwinists think?
- Thread starter Polioliolio
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I do.
So everything is ok as long as it was the parent's choice? Of course it's parent's choice. Ain't no baby gonna decide to get his dick cut afte rall. Also the "it's not that serious" reasoning is pretty bad. I do believe you that it isn't a big deal to you. Not arguing that. I'm arguing that it's a pretty bad reason to systematically cut out body parts because "it's not that serious".
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I don't feel violated or rights taken away. My junk looks beautiful cut. It doesn't look like the giant work from ESB.
Demoskinos
Member
I'd say don't do it. I'm uncircumcised myself and honestly I'm glad my parents didn't choose to do that to me. If you don't have religious reasons for doing it don't do it.
People say well uncircumcised penises look weird. Guess what? All penises look weird. Also medically there are no benefits at all. To me its a baffling tradition that is rooted in some beliefs that are simply not true (like the belief that it would prevent venereal diseases)
Let your child decide when they get older.
People say well uncircumcised penises look weird. Guess what? All penises look weird. Also medically there are no benefits at all. To me its a baffling tradition that is rooted in some beliefs that are simply not true (like the belief that it would prevent venereal diseases)
Let your child decide when they get older.
Abilidebob
Member
It's one of the most irrational and disgusting things that sadly Americans are obsessed over, and all because of some crazed fuckers more than a hundred years ago were scared shitless of masturbation and thought that'd stop it. The vast, vast, absolutely majority of the world has no problems with their penises, why would an American penis be any different?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I am snipped and feel fantastic about it. Do it up.
Looks finely chizzled. Perhaps jizzled.
Looks finely chizzled. Perhaps jizzled.
Weakly cited or not, I think criticisms can speak for themselves. Is it really "an attempt to undermine validity"? That essentially the definition of criticism. By criticizing, you must be trying to undermine authority. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing that. The fact that you think it is wrong suggests you are putting American pediatricians up on a pedestal.
I don't think I need to remind you that there is sufficient evidence for spectacular failings of many of these grand academic publications in the past few years such as the NOAC trials in the New England Journal of Medicine.
All one has to do is take the evidence/criticism of evidence and make a decision about it.
That's untrue. As someone who worked in South Africa as a public health educator (via PEPFAR), a circumcised man had a 44-60 percent (sources ranged from this area) less chance of contracting HIV than his uncut counterpart. There are minor STI risk reductions in the process as well. There are medical reasons to get the cut.
All I know is, the Gates foundation has spent nearly $2 billion circumcising africa. They might be on to something..
Have you seen some of the tactics they have used to do it? Complete fear tactics even. Posters showing that uncircumcised men will give HIV to women. Something very off putting about it all.
If HIV and STD rates were so reduced, why does the US which has had majority circumcision rates have higher rates of STD's and STI's than Europe where Circumcision has dropped off a cliff?
Okay so then what's the difference?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Evolution will say nothing on the matter. Foreskin may be useful or a weird vestigial thing.
What matters is automatically autonomy.
It's irreversible and it only exists as a common practice because of weird religious tradition. There's no to completely negligible benefit and there are risks associated with the procedure. Why do an unnecessary procedure to such a sensitive area?
Infant abortion should be banned
If you look at the actual data, the somewhat inconclusive results only suggest a very small benefit in very hiv prevalent populations were unprotected sex is common and genital hygiene is poor.
It makes me uncomfortable to have Western non profits mutilating African infants, even with good intentions.
If genital female mutilation (not clitoris but only external labia, the equivalent of foreskin) had same marginal benefits would we do it to? Because of our bizarre religious history we somehow make weird rationalizations for male circumcision.
What matters is automatically autonomy.
It's irreversible and it only exists as a common practice because of weird religious tradition. There's no to completely negligible benefit and there are risks associated with the procedure. Why do an unnecessary procedure to such a sensitive area?
Infant abortion should be banned
If you look at the actual data, the somewhat inconclusive results only suggest a very small benefit in very hiv prevalent populations were unprotected sex is common and genital hygiene is poor.
It makes me uncomfortable to have Western non profits mutilating African infants, even with good intentions.
If genital female mutilation (not clitoris but only external labia, the equivalent of foreskin) had same marginal benefits would we do it to? Because of our bizarre religious history we somehow make weird rationalizations for male circumcision.
Jawbreaker
Member
No, you should not alter your son's body without consent. Value his autonomy over a shitty, practically worthless procedure that the vast majority of the world doesn't partake in.
I'm a gay man but I personally think uncut penises are lovely. The glans stays healthier looking and doesn't get that weird dried out looking skin thing going on that cut penises can. Never encountered any issues with hygiene. The STD argument is a non-issue as people should be using protection until they become monogamous and both get tested. Both cut and uncut men can contract diseases unprotected so arguing that you have a 20% chance to contract HIV rather than a 40% chance is ridiculous (numbers pulled out of thin air as the point stands regardless of the numbers); use a condom.
Also like cut penises just fine though...
But when it comes to mutilating children, I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be done unnecessarily. I only believe in circumcision when medically necessary, such as a bad case of phimosis, or if the child grows up and decides they'd like to be cut for whatever reason. People take this subject very personally because of obvious reasons but, in the end, you are taking the choice away from your child and a part of your child's genitals away from them without their consent. It is not as far removed from other forms of genital mutilation as people act like it is. The fact it was done to you or is widely performed or accepted doesn't change that. Your child can always get circumcised later down the line, but they can never have a circumcision that was done without their consent reversed. It's just a matter of time until society looks back on this as an antiquated and barbaric practice, as many other traditions that stem from religion are or will be looked upon. It will also eventually be illegal.
finalflame
Member
Agreed.
So some women think it looks weird?
Seriously, it's how we're born. Get over it.
Exactly. it's so strange how obsessed AMERICA is with this.
IISANDERII
Member
I would be extremely sceptical of any American studies on circumcision. They are often very motivated to be pro circumcision and present things as medical facts while studies in Europe demonstrate they are false.
I have an arab friend who had a son and I showed him with a study which showed the pain of a circumcision, even in a newborn, can be severe enough that it can cause permanent negative effects on brain development. He decided not to circumcise.
Now that you mention this, I was hinting at the fallacy of appealling to authority in my previous message. I feel, that it applies to this comment as well.
Additionally, background rates of various illnesses affects what treatments and preventions are offered. As far as I know, the OP is not in Africa, but I'm sure they will correct me if that is the case.
If you honestly think they're even comparable, then this conversation isn't even worth having.
You did a great thing.
They are, female circumcision is removing the clitoral hood (the one to one equivalent of the foreskin in males), which is far less tissue actually than the male foreskin.
He's not talking about excision, he's talking about circumcision.
Female circumcision is genital mutilation, so is male's.
Edit: sorry for the double post.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Ironically the argument for female mutation is the same. If the clitoris is not removed, just the external labia, it's basically the equivalent anatomical alteration.
Snipping any part of young/baby girls is outrageous.
If that baby is born a boy though, no problem doing it.
Bold statement, but here it is: people are insane in how tradition/culture can cloud their judgement and make them do/think disgusting things.
Health Risks of Female Mutilation
And the health risks of male circumcision at birth are pain that can last 7-10 days and.....??
Death?
You do know male children can die from circumcision complications, right?
A quick Google search will inform you if you were unaware.
Is that a risk you still want to take just because you want to make sure their penis looks like yours and/or adhere to tradition?
That it's an unnecessary medical procedure.
The post below yours said everything to is to be said.
Every single thing mentioned in that article about the dangers of FGM can be applied to MGM.
So all of you guys in favor of circumcision, should I also circumcise my daughter when she's born ?
It would make it easier to wash, and I find covered clitoris a bit gross to be honest...
Or is that off limits ?
Anyone in favor of male circumcision actually disgusted by the rest of that post ?
Ask yourself that question: why are you so adamant in protecting a young girl's right to bodily integrity, but don't care at all for a boy's ?
And don't tell me this is different, I'm talking about the exact same procedure in both cases: circumcision, removal of foreskin/clitoral hood. Not the glans nor the clitoris.
(It pains me to write the first part of this message, but I hope you guys hear my point and it's not in vain.)
It would make it easier to wash, and I find covered clitoris a bit gross to be honest...
Or is that off limits ?
Anyone in favor of male circumcision actually disgusted by the rest of that post ?
Ask yourself that question: why are you so adamant in protecting a young girl's right to bodily integrity, but don't care at all for a boy's ?
And don't tell me this is different, I'm talking about the exact same procedure in both cases: circumcision, removal of foreskin/clitoral hood. Not the glans nor the clitoris.
(It pains me to write the first part of this message, but I hope you guys hear my point and it's not in vain.)
Muskieratboi
Member
I'm not gonna go all SIlent Hill Wiki about this this, but srsly...
Leave the kid's dick alone, dude.
Leave the kid's dick alone, dude.
I think it's some combination of self-confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. I'd wager, for many circumsized men, if you were to admit that being cut isn't actually necessary, it could be seen an implicit admission that your penis might not be ideal; that a potentially unnecessary procedure was performed. As we all know, having the best penis version is of utmost importance.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Why perform an unnecessary surgery? Leave your kids dick alone.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Most circumcision threads turn into people being outraged that I am not outraged over my parents deciding to cut me.
One of the main reasons why its performed in the first place besides "tradition", is hygiene. However, unless you are outright a slob, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to clean your own dick. If your kid has a problem being uncircumcised when he's older, then he can choose to proceed with the procedure on his own terms, that's just my two cents.
Kevitivity
Member
I have a toddler and we also researched this one a tone prior to his birth. Like others have said, there is no medical reason to circumcise.
I was born in the 70's and my mother wasn't even asked after I was born, they just did it.
Bravo to the OP for questioning this issue.
I was born in the 70's and my mother wasn't even asked after I was born, they just did it.
Bravo to the OP for questioning this issue.
Abilidebob
Member
Exactly. I mean I just spend about 3 liters of alcohol weekly from washing my foreskin, and I just need to scrub it with a toothbrush once every 2 days.
The thing about not being circumcised is that you have the best of both worlds 
You got a hoodie for the little guy and when it's time to go you just pull it back and voyla! The pink headed soldier pops out ready for action.
Serious answer now:
Circumcision doesn't have any benefits at all.
"Bur Its more hygienic" No it's not, it's the same shit. you still have to clean your dick, circumcised or not. Don't be a pig and be rolling with a stinking dick.
You got a hoodie for the little guy and when it's time to go you just pull it back and voyla! The pink headed soldier pops out ready for action.
Serious answer now:
Circumcision doesn't have any benefits at all.
"Bur Its more hygienic" No it's not, it's the same shit. you still have to clean your dick, circumcised or not. Don't be a pig and be rolling with a stinking dick.
The thing about not being circumcised is that you have the best of both worlds
You got a hoodie for the little guy and when it's time to go you just pull it back and voyla! The pink headed soldier pops out ready for action.
Serious answer now:
Circumcision doesn't have any benefits at all.
"Bur Its more hygienic" No it's not, it's the same shit. you still have to clean your dick, circumcised or not. Don't be a pig and be rolling with a stinking dick.
For real.
Also motherfuckers talking like it was a fucking issue to clean your junk. it literally just need a second. Pull foreskin, soap, wash, DONE. Not even a fucking second.
Then again, just remembered folks over here don't even bathe. Carry on.
criesofthepast
Member
I am cut. The other day a girl said my penis was the "most gorgeous penis" she had ever seen. I am living in a country where circumcision is not common.
All Possible Ways
Member
I don't see any point in circumcision. As long as it's cleaned properly there should be no hygiene issues, and a small reduced risk from STDs is not enough to not wear a condom, anyway. Plus, from personal experience, it feels good to have it.
Askherserenity
Member
Woah. Some people in this thread are REALLY into circumcisions.
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