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[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

making super heroes fight each other is always dumb and never ends well

 

[Corpekata]

You're not helping your points (as tenuous as they are) with all the "HAHA CAP N BUCKY R GAY" jokes.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Throughout super hero stories that have been made in comics, movies, etc., the concept of a "hero vs hero war" has always been extremely contrived to me.

Captain America: Civil War has some flaws, but it is by far the most competently made "hero vs hero" story in any medium (IMO).

Yeah it's a pretty steep hill to climb, honestly. The comics versions are never good either. They are basically what if scenarios that either utilize mental possession or a reset button at the end. I'm shocked that civil war turned out s competent as it did considering the source material.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

BvS fans are really that salty? Damn son.

Subpar lives up to him name in these threads.

 

[Exodust]

It was better than the comic it was based on, and that's all it really needed to be (IMO).

Not a high bar when the comic itself was shit.

I hated the movie, but at least it wasn't the comic.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

yeah but it's better than Batman v Superman so who gives a shit?

 

[pseudocaesar]

I thought the movie was about average when I watched it, but yeah I pretty much agree with every point you raised.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

No way the media would ever blame the wrong people for a tragedy, that would never happen in our modern enlightened society.

And I'm even if they did, the people would never EVER believe in those blatant obvious lies.

Never.

 

[Jaeger]

The movie makes perfect sense, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRePDOMtTQ&t=522s

 

[louiedog]

And it all could have been avoided if Captain America and Tony Stark had mothers who shared a name.

 

[Veelk]

Oh boy, a bleepey thread attempting to 'honestly' dissect a marvel movie. I'm sure this won't be fulled to the brim with borderline deliberately misunderstanding scenes in order to mount an argument about those gosh darn mahrvel fanbois.

The Avengers are blamed for what happened in Africa. This makes no sense. A suicide bomber explodes himself in a market with literally 100s of witnesses and video footage. Yet they are blamed for the actions of a traitor in the presence of witnesses who can corroborate it wasn't their fault.

First argument out the gate, and here we are. Officially speaking, people don't blame the avengers in the sense that they are the cause of those deaths, but Wanda did move an explosion upwards where it killed people. People understand that it was an accident made in a hostile situation, which is why she isn't being sued for murder, but after all the world problems that the avengers were involved with, this was the straw that broke the camels back in the UN that made them decide that the Avengers HAD to be held to some kind of accountability. This is explicit in the scene where Ross explains the Accords to the Avengers.

I'm not gonna address the rest of the post. It's Bleepey, guys. The man isn't actually interested in having an honest debate with anyone or actually understanding the film. I advise you not to bother. Or if you are gonna bother, just know what your getting into.

Also how fucking stupid is it he allowed himself to be caught off guard and stop fighting because Crossbones said his heterosexual life partner's name. It was so random, he had him dead to rights and with just a random mention of Bucky dude stops, freezes and allows himself to almost decorate the pavement with his guts. Did the music from broke back mountain play right after he said Bucky and he remembered the times they had?

With a dash of homophobia included. Nice.

 

[inky]

That's what happens when one of them is being a stubborn prick even when the other one is constantly trying to compromise and handle things normally

Yup, but that's Cap for you. He simply cannot think beyond Bu Bu Bucky, stubborn prick.

 

[clay_ghost]

And it all could have been avoided if Captain America and Tony Stark had mothers who shared a name.

Avoided? No. Resolved? Yes.

 

[Green Mamba]

It was one hundred percent the Avengers' fault that they chose to engage a known terrorist in the middle of a heavily crowded city in hand to hand combat. They absolutely bare some of the blame for what happened at the beginning.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'm shellshocked that an action movie requires willing suspension of disbelief for maximum enjoyment. SHOCKED.

 

[chrisPjelly]

Nah it makes sense, albeit some of the motivations are goofily forced and the plot conveniences itself when necessary. But I still really appreciate that the climax of the film is fairly contained and small scale compared every other superhero movie today.

 

[Blader]

I mean, yeah. It wasn't fair they were blamed for it. The media can be unfair alot of the time. Spiderman gets blamed for shit in the paper all the time. Doesn't matter if it makes sense. This seemed incredibly realistic, honestly.

Remember when Barack Obama was blamed for ebola

 

[Exodust]

yeah but it's better than Batman v Superman so who gives a shit?

People who don't care about the Marvel Vs. DC beef.

 

[Mighty Chin]

If only Guek wasn't banned.

 

[louiedog]

Avoided? No. Resolved? Yes.

They were friendly before the disagreement started though so I feel like it'd have strengthened that bond to avoid getting to that point. I mean it's their mothers' name. That means something.

 

[Manu]

Yeah, this movie where the hero is blamed about people dying in Africa despite not being his fault at all makes no sense.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

It was awesome and makes perfect sense to the 13year old child trapped in this body. AND really that's all that matters.

Plus Giant-Man!

 

[neojubei]

I saw this thread title and after seeing him in that BvS thread I said I bet this is Bleepy.

pretty much. BvS is still a horrid awful movie Bleepy, but at least wonder woman was good.

 

[Phamit]

No one allowed them to go to Lagos and play Anti-Terrorist, of course they are blamed when they threw a suicide Bomber into a building, who activated the bomb because of the Avengers

 

[theWB27]

Yup, but that's Cap for you. He simply cannot think beyond Bu Bu Bucky, stubborn prick.

Cap saved the avengers.

 

[The Technomancer]

The Avengers are responsible in the sense that, as Vision suggests, you can argue that their continued activity encourages the escalation of forces opposed to them. Its similar, although not the same, as American responsibility for continued middle eastern terrorism.

I was sort of coming around to the idea that Steve was right until the other week, after the Black Panther trailer, when I was like "wait, so an African nation leads the creation of a set of accords to constrain western military activity in their backyard, its really really hard to be against that"

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

most MCU movies are forgettable anyway. saw it once, it was fine, had no desire to see it again. many people here can't accept that and will try to deflect.

 

[Dead]

It's a spineless movie that barely pays insulting lip service to its key concepts. That's all there is to it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I never knew an argument for how good Civil War is, is "BvS is dumb, so sit down OP".

 

[Nesotenso]

if what some posters are saying is true, that OP is DC fanboy who just made this thread to rile others up because of BvS threads, then OP leads a very sad existence.

 

[Alienous]

I was watching the movie and the more I thought about it the movie makes absolutely no sense and here's why:

The Avengers are blamed for what happened in Africa. This makes no sense. A suicide bomber explodes himself in a market with literally 100s of witnesses and video footage. Yet they are blamed for the actions of a traitor in the presence of witnesses who can corroborate it wasn't their fault. It would make more sense for the movie to have one lone survivor who can be bribed or coerced to say whatever they like and lay the evidence out to support any claim the villain wanted.

They weren't acting at the behest of a government. They decided someone needed to be stopped, and their intervention resulted in people getting killed in the explosion. They may have prevented something worse but the crux of the Sokovia Accords isn't "you guys suck" it's "you need to be held accountable by someone".

The Avengers are all in stealth mode being the only white people in Lagos, Nigeria and no one notices them because they are wearing the MCU stealth kit of baseball cap and glasses. Why not take the invulnerable, robot that can phase through walls that could contain bullets and explosions with them on this most stealth of stealth missions? Also, It's pronounced Lay-Gos not Lah-Gos. What is this shit?

The Vision isn't invisible, so he'd draw attention to himself. I guess he could float around underground but that wouldn't make for an interesting scene.

Character motivations. Tony Stark wanting to be held to account for his actions makes sense. Sure some might say that him wanting to work under the govt is a complete departure to how he behaved in previous movies. Notably Iron Man 2 where he felt the govt should serve at the " pleasure of himself" according to what he said at IM2''s senate hearing. This is very similar to Cap's safest hands are still our own arrogant spiel. But I think this shows Tony Stark going through a character arc from film to film where he goes from a mass murdering teched out billionaire playboy philanthropist to one who slowly appreciates that actions have consequences. This is probably from the fact he learnt that just because he creates something it didn't mean he can control it as evidenced in Age of Ultron where he fell victim to his own hubris and had his Frankenstein's monster try to kill him 10s after its birth. I understood what he was going through because Frankenstein's monster turning on its creator is a trope as old as at least whenever the Modern Prometheus was published and if someone was to complain about why a scientist creating something that they think they can control turning on the creator would either be nitpicking or an idiot. Thankfully that criticism doesn't happen in modern comic book movies.

Cap on the other hand feels that the safest hands are still his own. Why? Because he's Captain fucking America. The A doesn't stand for France. He doesn't try to explore the framework of how the Sokovia accords might work or give it the time of day. Seriously instead he just looks mopey and says you should listen to me just because he shouldn't have to play buy anyone's rules. When people tell him to stand down he should pull a George Zimmerman and do what he likes even if it leads to adverse consequences. Funnily enough he could make compelling argument about how they were on the right side of history considering the Avengers stopped NYC being nuked, all of the Avengers are either govt sanctioned super spies, billionaires given high level govt clearance because the govt wants to play with his toys, deputised Avengers who were deputised by Shield agents, and senior military officials that were tasked to take down the Mandarin for PR purposes. The fact they were being lectured to by a disgraced alcoholic who felt the need to talk about accountability after he let diet Hulk run around NYC because he foolishly felt he could control him like other people with more balls than luck. But hey failing upwards into Secretary of State might explain why he thinks he is above being called out on his bullshit. That and Cap doesn't feel the need to defend himself with any of these decent rebuttal. He instead takes the anti govt position that Tony previously adopted because the movie needs to have conflict and a big playfight destroying property. Superman in the DCEU makes a better Captain America because he at least believes in elected officials, is humble enough to allow himself to be handcuffed to assuage people's fears and doesn't beat up and cripple people because he believes his notorious mass murder of a friend is innocent, is pensive about his actions even when he knows he is innocent and is willing to talk about his actions as a first course of action rather than dismiss people with conflicting viewpoints.

It's easy to assume that Cap is so shaken by the revelation that he had been working for HYDRA disguised as SHIELD that he doesn't trust any government organization. Seems reasonable to me.

Also how fucking stupid is it he allowed himself to be caught off guard and stop fighting because Crossbones said his heterosexual life partner's name. It was so random, he had him dead to rights and with just a random mention of Bucky dude stops, freezes and allows himself to almost decorate the pavement with his guts. Did the music from broke back mountain play right after he said Bucky and he remembered the times they had?

Cap has reason to believe that Barlow knew something about Bucky, due to Crossbones' association with HYDRA. He let his guard down due to the idea that he could maybe get information that could lead to recovering his best friend, and one of the last connections he has to his life before being Captain America. He's allowed to make mistakes.

Black panther. For Marvel's Batman he doesn't seem to be very logical. First of all he knows the building will blow up just because his Panther senses were tingling. He doesn't see the Winter Solidier but he still accuses him of the bombing. Why? Because some lady on the news says so. He doesn't do any detective work nothing, Just takes what the media says at face value. So much for the third smartest person in the Marvel universe. When he gets the chance to meet the Winter Soldier he doesn't even even try to talk about it. He just fights and refuses to listen to reason.

OK, this I sort of agree with. But Black Panther is an angry man who hasn't yet adopted his role as King T'Challa.

Zemo. His plan makes no sense. The film starts with him doing a global scavenger hunt for something he is not sure of. He just knows it's important because of the data dump by Black Widow but not why. It could be anything from what keeps Nick Fury's head free of razor bumps to how many superheroes Black Panther has done the dirty with. Why didn't she get Tony to decrypt it and not tell every Hydra agent or cell that the cats out of the bag! But I digress. Zemo's plan only works because the script writers say so. He is more fortunate than Longshot and his "plan" is solely predicated on luck not logic. Omniscience is his super power. He went on a scavenger hunt for fuck knows what that paid off just because, knew the Avengers would disagree amongst each other about a geopolitical issue because he's just that lucky. How about rather than just relying on luck he outsmarts them by playing an active role in the deception. Rather than doing a shit tonne of random bullshit just in the hope that they'd land at a random place at the same time just to show them a random video he didn't know existed till about 10 mins before they came that would make them act irrationally. It's only ok for Avengers to kill when brainwashed. In better movies you'd see said villain who played a puppet master who manipulates the protagonists, they'd actively playon the heroes strengths and weaknesses based on research. In said hypothetical movie oe character will be manipulated because he is a nice guy who doesn't like bullies and thinks even the worst of society shouldn't fall victim to extra judicial killings whilst the other character is manipulated by laying bread crumbs for him to follow and harjs the rep of his antagonist through many public acts whwther it's framing him for causing an international incident, making it seem like everywhere he goes bad shit happens. None of this I planned to tear the Avengers apart all along through just being lucky and showing a tape bullshit.

I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt here, because it's a lot to read and I don't like Zemo's plan either.

Spider-man. Yeah this is a gratuitous cameo. But Tony Stark talks a lot about accountibility yet he recruits a child not old enough to drive to fight Supersoldiers, assassins, all powerful robots, a witch, and a giant. Is he old enough to legally sign the Sokovia accords? I doubt it. One of those near invulnerable Iron Man suits might have provided more utility than a suit that's special abilities so far include not offering much protection when getting thrown about as evidenced by the black eye at the end. Couldn't have cooked up an Iron Man suit or something? Also regarding that playfight what sense does that make to recruit a child to take in Cap in a non fatal way but in the film the opposing teams are literally throwing cars and explosives at each other. I repeat throwing cars and fuel trucks at each other. Their actions are incongruous with their motives. Also can someone explain to me how the Vision attacking the Falcon makes sense?. The guy tries to give a "gentle " blast that would turn his near indestructible jet pack into a "glider"yet said blast penetrated an invulnerable super suit that a similar model previously survived and was recharged by bolts from Thor and took beatings from him too. For the sake of the plot War Machine's suit seems less durable so that the Avengers can realise how stupid fighting was at the end . If said blast hit the Falcon:

• he'd die from taking such a huge bast because not all black men in the MCU are bulletproof.
• If said blast his the jet pack, it wouldn't disable said jet pack and allow him to glide to earth. No, he'd freefall and he'd look Jackson Pollock painted a field with human remains.

Iron-Man had every intention of apprehending Captain America. Spider-Man makes sense from that perspective.

The Vision's beam is easy enough to explain. He wanted to cut the power to Falcon's suit, forcing him to glide with his wings. He accidentally cut the power to War Machine's suit, causing him to fall out of the sky like a stone. It wasn't the beam that killed Rhodey - and it didn't even penetrate the suit (Rhodey is in no pain when he's falling) - it just destroys the suit's exposed power source.

The film is just an excuse to hear crappy jokes and a overly complicated plot that makes no sense where characters act out of character only cos the plot dictates so. Sad.

Eh.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

People who don't care about the Marvel Vs. DC beef.

SSSSSSSSSSSSH! This is a Bleepey thread.

 

[jon bones]

pretty much. BvS is still a horrid awful movie Bleepy, but at least wonder woman was good.

true, why not make a thread about how dope wonder woman is instead of putting all this time into a parody thread

I should parody BVS shitting threads and copy and paste the same complaints and use them for Civil War.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

No one allowed them to go to Lagos and play Anti-Terrorist, of course they are blamed when they threw a suicide Bomber into a building, who activated the bomb because of the Avengers

Yes this is what The Vision meant. "Our very existence welcomes challenge." The Avengers basically waged their own private war against international criminals without jurisdiction, and they got caught. The charges were not without merit, especially considering New York and Sokovia (the Accords' namesake) happened because of them. It wasn't just about what happened in Lagos.

 

[clay_ghost]

They were friendly before the disagreement started though so I feel like it'd have strengthened that bond to avoid getting to that point. I mean it's their mothers' name. That means something.

It's the execution. The impact will be lessen if the name is known before hand. They may delay the conflict but it will still start as emotional effects will be diluted overtime. However if they discover this fact during the heat of battle,Iron Man and Cap will immediately stop their fight and listen to each other to stop Zemo.

 

[Ravek]

So says the guy who defends Suicide Squad and BvS like they are the second coming of Jesus.

Just accept the fact that humans are not a hive mind and everyone has different tastes.

I don't get this constant urge to force hive minds

You said hive mind twice; once more and a mod shows up...

---

Civil War,for all it's faults, was a fun movie. That's my two cents.

 

[Kid Ying]

I never knew an argument for how good Civil War is, is "BvS is dumb, so sit down OP".

Civil war has no defense other than "i liked" so it's fair that people will attack something else.

 

[JB1981]

I don't get it either. The Avengers saved the world twice and prevented a biological catastrophe in Africa. Why do they need oversight again?

And yea, the playfight at the airport while novel was pretty silly when you think about it. At least Batfleck was ready to straight murder Clark.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I don't get it either. The Avengers saved the world twice and prevented a biological catastrophe in Africa. Why do they need oversight again?

They saved the world from shit they started.

 

[itwasTuesday]

Hey accords are named after where they are signed.

 

[neojubei]

true, why not make a thread about how dope wonder woman is instead of putting all this time into a parody thread lol

how about this thread becomes how awesome wonder woman was as a movie.


Gal Gadot, as much as i dismissed her in BvS really proved herself in Wonder Woman. I cannot help but sing the praises of that movie.

 

[BruceCLea]

It would've been way better if it were about the United States (or secret nation power whatever) wanted them to become a part of their regime. The Civil War would be more about them splitting decisions about that, spearheaded by Cap's experience with WW2, Red Skull and Hitler.

It would've been way creepier and more subversive if Tony bought into it because he needed the whole backing to keep the world safe, while Cap felt it was the beginning of a totalitarian regime and struck back. But that's way too much I think. And it would be a pretty heavy "fuck you" criticism to the United States.

Cap signs on to begin with...but they go on a mission and their orders immediately become radically different than what they thought...putting resources wanted by the government way ahead of human lives...causing Cap to split with some allies.

Again, my idea would be way too critical of the US. (I'm a US citizen btw)

 

[Oblivion]

Totally agreed, op.

When you get right down to it, Civil War is an incredibly stupid, nonsensical movie.

Truth be told, however. My biggest gripe with the film is that absolute shit villain.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I don't get it either. The Avengers saved the world twice and prevented a biological catastrophe in Africa. Why do they need oversight again?

Which is even more odd since the government and superiors have shown to either be super corrupt or would drop a nuke on New York.

Like, why would anyone believe oversight is good considering this world's track record?

But then again, the movie pits oversight vs freedom in general without taking into account that world's history.

Oh well.

 

[JB1981]

They saved the world from shit they started.

They made the Chittauri invade earth?

 

[PSqueak]

The only thing that didn't make sense was Tony wanting to blame Bucky for things he did under hydra brain washing.

 

[Veelk]

true, why not make a thread about how dope wonder woman is instead of putting all this time into a parody thread

We should probably add parody to the list of things that Bleepey doesn't understand, because this isn't a parody thread. This is just a normal review thread of Civil War.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

They made the Chittauri invade earth?

They only invaded Earth because of Loki, and Loki went spiraling out of control and became a threat to the universe because Thor was a dipshit.

 

[Doran902]

I found it super enjoyable the first time I watched it and super meh the second time. Suspension of disbelief and comedy go a long way but as soon as you know the jokes and pay attention to the story it drops a bit.

 

[JB1981]

Which is even more odd since the government and superiors have shown to either be super corrupt or would drop a nuke on New York.

Like, why would anyone believe oversight is good considering this world's track record?

But then again, the movie pits oversight vs freedom in general without taking into account that world's history.

Oh well.

I guess we're meant to view it from the perspective of the globe. Sort of like Trump pulling out of the Paris Climate accord.