Support NeoGAF

[scy]

It IS a sword.

I figured. I find it a little sad that it's -8 and yet still a massive upgrade from my Dragon Knight's weapons anyway.

So if I'm understanding this right, there's no real reason to NOT class change from a Sorcerer to a Sage the second you can. The Sage gets every sorc spell -- and then some.

The only alternate path would be Sorc -> Puppeteer -> Sage, but that's pointless cause Sage gets most of the Puppeteer spells, and Puppeteer is really more for the Magic Wall skill than anything else.

Sound right?

More or less. Sorcerer and Sage spells overlap so there's not much reason. Puppeteer does bring Unlock so that's worth thinking of. Especially if you don't run a Thief-class.

That said, I ... don't think Fairy even has access to Puppeteer?

Edit: Also, as an aside, getting REAL tired of my Fairy and Celestian's HP totals. Celestian is a Samurai so is front line, but is a Samurai has low defense, and is a Celestian so has crap HP. My Bahamun has literally 10 times the HP as my Fairy, and despite being in the very FAR back row, she still gets hit often enough to die (in one hit), and trap walls instant kill her if they nail her.

Based off just some observations through the game, targeting logic is based off Health so your lower health people will tend to get whacked more often. Possibly a similar logic to the EO franchise (where it's a random function with priority based off CurrentHealth) but eh, I haven't looked at it extensively to figure out how weighted it is or if it is Current vs Current%.

So is the Dragon Elixyr a craft or a drop?

You purchase it.

Edit: Should be ~500 gold from most the stores. I think the schools have it at least.

 

[KiTA]

Based off just some observations through the game, targeting logic is based off Health so your lower health people will tend to get whacked more often. Possibly a similar logic to the EO franchise (where it's a random function with priority based off CurrentHealth) but eh, I haven't looked at it extensively to figure out how weighted it is or if it is Current vs Current%.

I believe there are different AIs for targeting. For example, one of the early fights I'm seeing is the party vs a bunch of guys in black robes. Said entire party of black robes will, every single time, attack my low max HP Celestian en mass. Never fails.

 

[scy]

Well, there's different types of targeting, yes. There's usually a generic "Random" that gets used more often than the rest for determining things.

Like I said though, I haven't looked into it too extensively. Just that my general observation through the game is I'm fairly sure that random targeting priority is low HP. Just not sure if it's Current# or Current% (e.g., 2000/2000 vs 4000/5000).

There's probably some other ones that prioritize the backrow or even things like highest health target, etc.

 

[KiTA]

Is the second option in the trap menu supposed to be "Satchel", which makes me think "Item Bag" and not "Use Magic to Scan the Chest for traps," which is what it actually does.

Similarly, the magic spell for divining traps is "Un-Trap" which suggests to me "Undo the trap" and not "tell me what the trap is."

I dunno if it's a pun I'm not getting (I'm running on 3 hours sleep across 2 days) but, just struck me as odd.

Also: Apparently the status screen shows your stats adjusted for affinity. So if you're at 110% affinity and have 11 INT, for example, you really have 10 INT. This is important cause class changing doesn't care at all about your affinity adjusted stats.

 

[scy]

Also: Apparently the status screen shows your stats adjusted for affinity. So if you're at 110% affinity and have 11 INT, for example, you really have 10 INT. This is important cause class changing doesn't care at all about your affinity adjusted stats.

While this is true, the Affinity on your Status screen does not reflect your actual Affinity. As you use Group Attacks, you earn Affinity Levels. You can get up to 99 of these (which brings you up to a total of 200% Affinity) and, as far as I'm aware, there's nothing that shows it easily. The only way to check the total Affinity of a character is to make a solo party and then check what their Tension Gauge reads when maxed out.

But, yes, this is why you can have characters that meet the stat requirements for a class but be unable to change into them. The stat screen displays your modified stats and the game uses base stats to determine class changes.

 

[larvi]

I believe there are different AIs for targeting. For example, one of the early fights I'm seeing is the party vs a bunch of guys in black robes. Said entire party of black robes will, every single time, attack my low max HP Celestian en mass. Never fails.

I'm guessing that similar to the affinities between the races, different monsters type will have negative affinities to certain classes or races that will make them preferred targets. But it could also just be the AI trying to exploit weaknesses as well.

 

[vireland]

Is the second option in the trap menu supposed to be "Satchel", which makes me think "Item Bag" and not "Use Magic to Scan the Chest for traps," which is what it actually does.

Similarly, the magic spell for divining traps is "Un-Trap" which suggests to me "Undo the trap" and not "tell me what the trap is."

I dunno if it's a pun I'm not getting (I'm running on 3 hours sleep across 2 days) but, just struck me as odd.

Also: Apparently the status screen shows your stats adjusted for affinity. So if you're at 110% affinity and have 11 INT, for example, you really have 10 INT. This is important cause class changing doesn't care at all about your affinity adjusted stats.

"Satchel" on the chest menu has been changed in the version with the Alchemy patch.

 

[KiTA]

I'm guessing that similar to the affinities between the races, different monsters type will have negative affinities to certain classes or races that will make them preferred targets. But it could also just be the AI trying to exploit weaknesses as well.

I think it was targeting lowest cHP -- upon killing my Celestian they turned on my Fairy, who was in the back row and untargetable.

My major problem was the randomization of their attacks. First hit, 10, second, 11, third, 75. What.


Just class changed my Bahamun to a Dragon Knight. Grinding was easy with him, just went out solo right outside of the second academy and killed those two static spawn points. Save, reboot game with L+R+Start+Select, resume, do it again. Did discover that the little mouse things there do have an instant kill attack they rarely use. Funny.

I'd switch my Celestian over to Fallen Angel but can't quite get her evil. I remember there being some hypnosis mechanic or something in CoH1 to alignment change, is that true for CoH2? If so, where do I do it?

 

[vireland]

My major problem was the randomization of their attacks. First hit, 10, second, 11, third, 75. What.

They have critical hit probability. The third one was definitely a critical hit.

 

[scy]

I think it was targeting lowest cHP -- upon killing my Celestian they turned on my Fairy, who was in the back row and untargetable.

Back row doesn't mean they cannot be targeted.

And, yeah, I'm assuming that random targeting priority is Lowest Current Health (that is, raw value lowest current health) as opposed to Lowest Current Health%. Could probably look into it some more with testing.

I'd switch my Celestian over to Fallen Angel but can't quite get her evil. I remember there being some hypnosis mechanic or something in CoH1 to alignment change, is that true for CoH2? If so, where do I do it?

Each "Fight" option on the Fight/Watch/Leave battles is worth -1 Evil Alignment. You don't actually trigger a change in alignment, however, until you use a Good/Evil Berry. As for the ranges:

Good: +10 to +4
Neutral: +3 to -3
Evil: -4 to -10

 

[KiTA]

If I'm good, do I need 2 Evil Berries to get to Evil?

Edit: And do I have to get these as drops if I've already bought the two from the store?

Edit: According to the wiki:

善の実
Good Berry
かぼちゃのおばけ ダスト
Taking the shape dust of pumpkin

悪の実
Evil Berry
かぼちゃのおばけ ダスト
Taking the shape dust of pumpkin

Not sure where the uh, Pumpkin dusts... are. Hm.

Edit: Looks like they're on "A Parting of Ways". Also known as "Whack-o-Lanterns."

Edit: Nope, not jsut Whack-o-lanterns", but also th enext monster in the list, #23. Dust of some kind.

 

[scy]

If you can get your Alignment to -4 to -10, you can do it with one berry; hell, it doesn't even have to be an Evil Berry, any Berry works. It just requires you to use a Berry to get the game to actually look at your Alignment and update.

Edit: There's ~50 of them across the stores in the game.

 

[KiTA]

My real angst is trying to decide if I want to grind with her to level 29 so she gets Heaven Sword before switching her over to Fallen Angel. Switching back and forth between the two ... probably a bit of a pain. Fortunately I can easily solo with her right outside the second town, which is really fast XP.

 

[KiTA]

Vic: While you're looking at miswordings, the spell descriptions for Earth spells are off by one:

Rumble hits 1 enemy (says a group)
Quake hits 1 group (says everyone)
No clue what the 3rd Earth spell says, I don't have a Sage yet.


My Celestian Samurai is Evil, and can class change. But she's only level 22 and thus needs 7 more levels to gain Heavenly Sword or whatnot. It's slow going -- it takes on average 11-35 fights right now to level. From my SMT days this doesn't sound like a lot, but it takes a while. I might try moving on to a different area -- a major force holding me back is my weapons and armor are sub-par.

For those wanting to alignment change, if you move into a crossed swords guaranteed battle area, and the fight ISN'T an alignment check fight, you can flee and try, try again. Right outside the second academy in Witch's Woods is a good place for doing it.


The Japanese wiki mentions something called "Warning Zones" that have higher (sometimes vastly higher) enemies -- basically you're supposed to run like hell through these areas and hope you don't get ganked. But I haven't seen any on the maps. I know in Swordsman's Path I encountered some flying sharks that just stomped me flat, and those are supposedly Warning Zone enemies, but I didn't get any, er, warning.

Is the entire map a warning "zone"? Is that how it works? Or is it certain areas of certain maps?

 

[scy]

Certain areas on the map. They're labeled "Warning Tile" under the Map Info when you bring up the map.

Worth noting that Heavenly Sword requires a Katana (not just any Sword, at least that appears to be the case) and you'll be hard-pressed to actually use that as a Fallen Angel.

 

[KiTA]

Certain areas on the map. They're labeled "Warning Tile" under the Map Info when you bring up the map.

Worth noting that Heavenly Sword requires a Katana (not just any Sword, at least that appears to be the case) and you'll be hard-pressed to actually use that as a Fallen Angel.

Er, really? I had worried about that, but... Well, damn.

Edit: Here's what the Japanese wiki has to say:

天剣絶刀
[Tentsurugitakatana] -- "Heavenly Sword, Beyond Katana"
28
剣29
Sword 29 (Samurai 29)
戦闘中
It is combatting. (Combat only)
敵全体
The entire enemy (All targets)

一撃で敵を撃破する。
It smashes the enemy by a blow.
※
刀を装備する必要あり。
It is necessary to equip it with the sword.

It uses the katana kanji specifically. A quick peek of the wiki suggests they use 刀 for katanas, and 剣 for western swords. In other words... I'm wasting my time. Great.

As an aside: Why was the weapon "刀," alchemied by using the "Broken Wooden Sword" localized as "Knife?" The rest of the Katana swords have eastern sounding names like Kitetsu, unless that Google Docs faq is still using machine translated Japanese names.

 

[vireland]

Vic: While you're looking at miswordings, the spell descriptions for Earth spells are off by one:

Rumble hits 1 enemy (says a group)
Quake hits 1 group (says everyone)
No clue what the 3rd Earth spell says, I don't have a Sage yet.

Thanks, already took care of that. There's a couple threads on the GAIJINWORKS board where they've collected odds and ends to fix, and this was one of them.

 

[scy]

Er, really? I had worried about that, but... Well, damn.

I was hedging my bets a little since I had checked it myself when I had my Samurai but didn't try every single Sword I owned. She's now a Sorcerer so I couldn't check with my new range of weapons to see if there was some late-game "Katana" that got around the class restriction issue.

As such, I've never actually used Heavenly Sword in any serious manner since my luck with them as drops has been abysmal :/

Edit: As I apparently just found out, there's a max gold you can have (99,999,999G). So I guess there goes my plan of sitting on gold for one big mass spending spree to reincarnate people. Guess maybe I'll just start spending 10M or something per person per reincarnation to make each one go faster.

 

[vireland]

It uses the katana kanji specifically. A quick peek of the wiki suggests they use 刀 for katanas, and 剣 for western swords. In other words... I'm wasting my time. Great.

Here's all the Katana class weapons:
Knife
Ninja Sword
Japanese Sword
Onikiri
Qing Long Dao
Kitetsu Blade
Great Katana Shuusui
Shirogatana Shuusui
Souketsu Samonji
Juzumaru
Ogre Blade
Daihannya Nagakatana
Evil Sword Kitetsu
Famous Sword Kurooni
Murasame
Muramasa Edge
Shichishitou
Raikiri
Benten-Maru

 

[KiTA]

Nice to see Murasame and Muramasa Edge made it in.

So hm, I'm guessing I should just drop this whole "hit level 29" thing. It definitely sounds like that Samurai spell is Katana only, and there's really no benefit to leveling as a Samurai if I'm planning on switching away later. Drat.

Oh hey, scy -- can you equip your sorc with a dagger and see if the spell works then? Daggers count as sword class items (but not katana class items) so that would answer it pretty quickly, I would think.

 

[scy]

Oh hey, scy -- can you equip your sorc with a dagger and see if the spell works then? Daggers count as sword class items (but not katana class items) so that would answer it pretty quickly, I would think.

Doesn't work. I tried most every Sword as is, I was just unsure if more of the late game "Swords" were flagged "Katanas" and had a wider range of classes able to use them.

 

[KiTA]

Doesn't work. I tried most every Sword as is, I was just unsure if more of the late game "Swords" were flagged "Katanas" and had a wider range of classes able to use them.

Ah, I see.

Well hm, I'm 24, so it'd only be about a half million, maybe 750,000 XP to 29.

... yeah, no.


In other news, Alchemy got a lot easier when I realized the starting town sells a seemingly infinite(?) number of the low rank (Ranks 1-...4?) alchemy materials. Bought the 10 iron I needed and made my Drill Sword. Great damage and has instant kill as an affect. I do rather wish I understood how the alchemy enhancement system works, not sure if I need an Alchemist to do it or what, but I'd love to use up some of these Whetstones to make this sword even shinier.

 

[scy]

Take the mats needed for the item and then add a Whetstone.

Edit: Sans the base component (e.g., no Drill for a Drill Sword), that is.

 

[KiTA]

Take the mats needed for the item and then add a Whetstone.

Edit: Sans the base component (e.g., no Drill for a Drill Sword), that is.

So, Drill Sword is:

Drill + 1 Silver + 10 Iron

So to enhance it, it would be:

Drill Sword + 1 Whestone + 10 Iron?

How do I use those "Gives Anti-Fish element to a low level item" things, then? Drill Sword + Fishhook + 10 Iron? My life would be a LOT easier if I could get this silly sword some anti-undead capabilities, heh.

 

[scy]

So to enhance it, it would be:

Drill Sword + 1 Whestone + 10 Iron?

That is correct.

How do I use those "Gives Anti-Fish element to a low level item" things, then? Drill Sword + Fishhook + 10 Iron? My life would be a LOT easier if I could get this silly sword some anti-undead capabilities, heh.

Should just be Drill Sword + Fishhook. No other materials necessary. Just need to make sure you use the right level of the item. In this case, it's the mid-level Anti materials for a Drill Blade.

 

[cj_iwakura]

So I took on Practical Exam 2. Will I still be able to fight the first's boss?

I'll get three more pairs of Stilts eventually...

 

[scy]

So I took on Practical Exam 2. Will I still be able to fight the first's boss?

I'll get three more pairs of Stilts eventually...

Pandolo Town sells up to six Angel Cuffs (Ring/Accessory) for 15,000 Gold each. +1 Hit, +1 Evade, +Magic Resist, +Special Resist, +Floating, and Random Luck (can be -1, +0, +1 and is rolled when purchased; can buy and sell it back until you get positive rolls).

No idea on the first part but I assume yes.

 

[KiTA]

That is correct.



Should just be Drill Sword + Fishhook. No other materials necessary. Just need to make sure you use the right level of the item. In this case, it's the mid-level Anti materials for a Drill Blade.

Yeah, that works. I wonder where I can farm the anti-undead ones. Or do I need anti-magical? Or... both?

... Can you do both? Can you enhance a weapon with anti-everything if you keep alchemizing it over and over again?

 

[KiTA]

So apparently I do have some rare stuff -- level 52 broken pieces of gear, like... several Spirit Feathers and a Diamond. Long, long way off from being able to synth those though, but christ, once I can...

 

[KiTA]

Do warning zones appear at random, or are they set?

Where's the earliest place I can see one?

 

[scy]

... Can you do both? Can you enhance a weapon with anti-everything if you keep alchemizing it over and over again?

Should just be a single Element and adding a single Anti type (e.g., you can have a +Light and +Anti-Human but not +Anti-Human and +Anti-Undead or +Ice and +Light). You can add all the +Attributes you want.

Do warning zones appear at random, or are they set?

Where's the earliest place I can see one?

Beginner's Brush is the earliest; there's almost always (but not always) an area with Warning Tiles for every zone in the game. The first memorable one should be in Witch's Woods with the Golden Neeners. Anyway, the locations are all set. You just check the map for the areas that are marked appropriately on the map in the Map Info box.

For instance, Beginner's Brush, Soft Ray of Filtered Light (X1,Y16) to (X3,Y18) is filled with Warning Tiles.

 

[KiTA]

I've fought the golden neeners, but I never noticed anything on those maps...

How do I do the +Ice or whatnot? Do I need multiples? Or do I use them like a whetstone?

 

[KiTA]

Edit: AH. Warning Zones are the same color as everything else. Makes sense since they're booby traps.

Been fighting Hangnail Sharks in Swordsman's Trail: Trail of Lurking Death. My Samurai is level 27 now. Woo.

Also found my way to the 3rd University, so I now have a Gunner and a Beast.

Edit: A Superalloy just dropped off one of the sharks. While I could use a rank... 5 or 6 Iron, I could use the 100 Irons it decomps into more, methinks.

Edit2: Does anyone know what the monster type that looks like... fairy wings I guess, is? Most of my weapons are weak against that one and another one, which I believe is Spirit. Hemogoblins and Pulsiles, the monsters that look like half of a yin-yang orb, are that element, and I'm tired of doing 1-3 damage to them.

 

[scy]

How do I do the +Ice or whatnot? Do I need multiples? Or do I use them like a whetstone?

They're just like the Anti forges. Weapon + appropriate Level Elemental item.

Edit: AH. Warning Zones are the same color as everything else. Makes sense since they're booby traps.

I guess I could have been more clear. There's absolutely nothing different about them except the Warning Tile note in the Map Info box on the map screen. You see nothing in-game.

Edit2: Does anyone know what the monster type that looks like... fairy wings I guess, is? Most of my weapons are weak against that one and another one, which I believe is Spirit. Hemogoblins and Pulsiles, the monsters that look like half of a yin-yang orb, are that element, and I'm tired of doing 1-3 damage to them.

 

[KiTA]

Ok then, so say I give a sword +Ice.

Does that mean it's doing Ice Damage now, or does it mean that if I cast an Ice spell, said Ice spell will be enhanced?

 

[scy]

The weapon deals bonus damage to Fire-type enemies and less damage to Lightning-type enemies.

 

[KiTA]

Woo, Level 29 Samurai, level 1 Fallen, and yeah, it was a waste of time. Woo.

Guess it's time to actually progress the story a bit.

 

[KiTA]

Hm. Gunpowder Bullet... doesn't seem to be a bullet. Sling ammo perhaps?

It's only equippable by Alchemists and Puppeteers. Support. Hm.

 

[KiTA]

Something seems backwards about this.

I just enchanted a Death Shuriken (anti-Spirit) and it's flagged as being Anti-Ghost.

Similarly, I just enchanted a Ghost Baghnakh (anit-Ghost) and it's flagged as being anti-Spirit.

The Shuriken that I turned into a Death Shuriken I can turn into a Ghost Shuriken, and the same oddities occur. Similar with the Baghnakh, I can switch it between Death and Ghost with the weirdness.

Could those two items (Spirit and Flower Honey) have gotten swapped on accident or something? Or am I just misunderstanding things? I'm presuming Spirit means "Fairy" or "Fae" like, and not "Ghost-like".

 

[scy]

I'm ... not sure. The in-game classifications via the bestiary seem to indicate that those are the correct icons as the clearly "Ghost"-type enemies are properly marked (and the same for most the sprites/spirits) as with the image.

Edit: For instance, the Flame, Plant, Water Sprites have the Spirit icon from the image above; Apparition and Skull Buster are marked Ghosts. But, then you have enemies that have Spirit in their name (Mind Spirit) or in their description (Skull Buster, which is basically a dead spirit by description) so I'm not sure what to say.

However, the Anti-Ghost / Anti-Spirit end-game synthesis items do match the way you're saying though. Spirit Tear (Anti-Ghost) gives the Spirit icon and Holy Prayer (Anti-Spirit) gives the Ghost icon.

For what it's worth, the Spirit icon in that image is used far more than the Ghost one so there's that, I guess? Though I will note that it's weird that the Anti-Ghost item is called SPIRIT Tear so it might just be an error in the way the items are labeled.

Edit2: Also, I have "only" 576 Ghost kills and almost 999 Spirit kills based off the labeling in that image. This gives me both Achievements: Ghost is unlocked at >500 kills and Spirit is at >800 kills. So if there's any inconsistency, I'd say it's with the Anti items just having the wrong effect attached to them rather than the two types being mislabeled in that shot.

 

[vireland]

For what it's worth, the Spirit icon in that image is used far more than the Ghost one so there's that, I guess? Though I will note that it's weird that the Anti-Ghost item is called SPIRIT Tear so it might just be an error in the way the items are labeled.

Spirit and Ghost were a pain to keep straight in the localization. I can see the case for Ghost Tear rather than Spirit Tear.

 

[KiTA]

Has anyone done anything with the "equipment reincarnation" system, or whatever it's called? Supposedly you can use it to make like, long range swords or what have you.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'm struggling with trying to finish the game before Project X Zone comes out, but I don't know where the quests end and the story begins and I'm not sure I care!

 

[KiTA]

Holy crap, Gunners are really worthless at traps.

Ancient Labyrinth really makes great use of the warp mechanic. First time since the old Wizardry games I've really felt confused at being spun around like this.

 

[scy]

Spirit and Ghost were a pain to keep straight in the localization. I can see the case for Ghost Tear rather than Spirit Tear.

Well, it depends. Spirit Tear actually does give you Anti-Spirit. It just says on the item description that it's supposed to give Anti-Ghost. The same situation for Holy Prayer saying Anti-Spirit but giving Anti-Ghost.

Has anyone done anything with the "equipment reincarnation" system, or whatever it's called? Supposedly you can use it to make like, long range swords or what have you.

Well, it's hard to do much with it currently I think since the problem with recipes applies here as well. For instance, manually creating a Papyrus Rebirth Scroll gets me a Sorcerer Hat Rebirth Scroll ... except it's used as a Papyrus Rebirth Scroll. I get a Joker Rebirth Scroll instead of a Tulwar one when doing this with a Tulwar, etc. Makes it hard to do much with the list of them you can buy.

But, my understanding of it is you create a Rebirth Scroll out of an item by combining it with some amount of the appropriate Rebirth materials (tied to level just like normal synthesis requirements it seems; there's probably exceptions). The Rebirth Scroll will determine your resulting item and the item you combine it with will pass on the Range. I ... think? Just trying it out on a few random dinky items to see what results I get and it seems that's how it is.

I can test more of it out once I figure out where to farm Tier 5/6 Rebirth materials.

 

[KiTA]

This boss just tried to perform Kancho on me.

I had to look it up to be sure, but yup.

Kancho.

I just had a 50' tall dragon try to shove it's claw up my character's bum.

Say it with me everyone: Oh, JAPAN...

 

[vireland]

This boss just tried to perform Kancho on me.

I had to look it up to be sure, but yup.

Kancho.

I just had a 50' tall dragon try to shove it's claw up my character's bum.

Say it with me everyone: Oh, JAPAN...

Wasn't in the Japanese release. But glad it came up for you in battle. I tried to mix it up a bit since a huge amount of the messages were the same for the same attacks.

 

[shykyoichi]

One of my character disappeared after being treated. Where can I find him again? Or did he die? Thanks.

 

[KiTA]

One of my character disappeared after being treated. Where can I find him again? Or did he die? Thanks.

When you get treated, you progress through 3 states:

Dead -> Ash -> Lost (Deleted)

At any point you can progress to Alive again. If you progress to Lost, the character is gone. If you tried to treat him twice and failed both treatments, he's gone.

 

[vireland]

One of my character disappeared after being treated. Where can I find him again? Or did he die? Thanks.

It's always a good practice to save before treating characters at the clinic. If they go from Ash to Lost and you don't have a save to back up to, the character's gone.