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[Chairman Yang]

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...-campuses-blasphemy-killing-university-shocks

On April 13th Mr Khan was pulled from the room by a crowd of fellow students. The violence that followed, partially recorded on a mobile phone, was staggeringly brutal. The attackers shot Mr Khan twice, dragged his corpse through hallways, beat it with planks and stripped it naked.

Earlier in the day a fellow journalism student had accused Mr Khan of blasphemy. That allegation appears to have triggered the attack. The penalty for blasphemy under Pakistani law is death. But it is increasingly common that vigilantes take the law into their own hands before courts get involved. At least 65 people have been murdered by mobs for allegedly insulting Islam since 1990. As often in such cases, there was no evidence against Mr Khan, apart from the claims of the classmate who denounced him, Wajahat, a disgruntled young man with a fondness for the blood-curdling rhetoric of Islamist televangelists.

The participation of so many students in Mr Khan’s murder is a sign of growing religious intolerance on campuses. Pakistan’s Islamist parties have been fanning the flames of it: since the assassination in 2011 of Salman Taseer, a governor of Punjab who had pushed for reform of blasphemy laws, support for the current ones appears only to have grown.

Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-educated students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Awful way to go too.

Not only is the reasoning absurd if he did it, it was solely at the word of a specific student and nothing more so who even knows?

I don't even know how to start trying to fix a problem like that. It has to be soaked into the very culture itself to allow such a thing to occur

 

[King_Moc]

Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-educated students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.

I beg to differ.

 

[Akuun]

Holy shit. How could you do that to anyone?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.

 

[hobozero]

Is it common for students in Pakistan to be armed?

 

[HellforLeather]

Holy shit. How could you do that to anyone?

religion gives you a hell of a mental justification

 

[akira28]

I like to think I'd take out as many as I could with me. Just the idea of some shitbird riling up some mob of idiots to kill me enrages me.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Awful. RIP to the student.

 

[wesleyshark]

Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.

Yeah.. Ugh.

 

[Mimosa97]

Waiting for the religious brigade to tell us that religion isn't the problem and that the same stuff is happening in the western so we're in no place of judging

Horrifying story. Rip to the victim.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Fucking disgusting.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms

 

[Ogodei]

The growing intolerance is simply a function of decreasing inequality, which is what we see in places like Turkey or other countries becoming less secular. Secularism was an elite attitude, and as the door is opened to more people, they're going to bring their lower-class values with them, including stronger religious opinions.

Because of this, things'll get worse in the broader Muslim world before they get better, because secularism was previously tied to class repression or outright dictatorship, and the rise of Islamic extremism as an antidote to that won't be pretty, until you get more and broader economic development that helps to moderate their views.

 

[kittoo]

Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

Three sisters kill man booked for blasphemy in Sialkot

SIALKOT: Three armed burqa-clad sisters on Wednesday shot dead a man near Sialkot after accusing him of committing blasphemy 13 years ago.

Police managed to arrest the three suspects and identified them as Amna, Afshan and Razia.

The incident took place in Nangal Mirza village, Pasrur tehsil.

According to the police, the three women went to the house of Mazhar Hussain Syed, a faith healer, and asked him to pray for them. They also asked him if his son, Fazal Abbas, had returned from abroad. When told that he had returned from Belgium, they asked if they could see him. As soon as Abbas, 45, appeared before the women, they opened fire on him with the weapons they had brought with them secretly. Abbas died on the spot.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms

This.

 

[GeordieMark]

That's a horrible way to go. Do these cases get prosecuted or is this stuff just brushed under the rug?

 

[azyless]

"Shocked Pakistan" ? It's the law so I don't know what there is to be shocked about. That prime minister can condemn it all he wants he's just a hypocrite.

 

[Corpsepyre]

This happened some days back here. Fucking pieces of shit, and this isn't the first time something like this has happened. It's becoming routine. Not surprised, really.

There's even a lengthy video showing what went on. Disturbing shit!

 

[Ardenyal]

Well, if it's written in the law...


/s

 

[Figments]

religion gives you a hell of a mental justification

Well, you see...

Waiting for the religious brigade to tell us that religion isn't the problem and that the same stuff is happening in the western so we're in no place of judging

Horrifying story. Rip to the victim.

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.

 

[Arkeband]

Well, you see...



Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the misuse and appropriation of religion by people with disgusting agendas and a desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?

 

[Hale-XF11]

You have to wonder how much hope there is for the people who commit atrocities like this to understand that what they're doing is worse than what they're condemning.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Unbelievable how many people were complicit in this. Religion is cancer.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Secularism was an elite attitude

What's elitist about it? Ridiculous.

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.

Not the first time I see this kind of apologist horseshit, but it's frustrating regardless. The more people keep making excuses for irrational, hateful beliefs not being "the problem", the more they will persist.

Moreover, the notion that university students (which means access to higher education) are "being tricked into believing" things by leaders is pure infantilization. These are grown, educated men, who are absolutely responsible for their actions.

 

[Figments]

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?

Traitors to the nation, the worst scum, degenerates of society, etc.

None of these reasons require religion, and they have all been used to sentence innocents to death for no real purpose beyond solidifying and enforcing a specific power structure.

Hell, America got worked into a frenzy over supposed communist invaders influencing the nation.

What's elitist about it? Ridiculous.


Not the first time I see this kind of apologist horseshit, but it's frustrating regardless. The more people keep making excuses for irrational, hateful beliefs not being "the problem", the more they will persist.

So what exactly are these hateful beliefs that are established in the doctrine of Islam? Tell me, I'd love to know.

Religion doesn't become hateful until someone tells you you're never wrong, and every action, no matter how cruel or disgusting, is justified so long as it serves "a higher purpose".

I don't know of any mainstream religion evangelizes which that from its own established doctrine.

 

[Betty]

Religion shouldn't be taken this seriously.

Maybe children shouldn't be indoctrinated into religion until they can make informed decisions. Make it like alcohol or driving or drinking.

 

[Onaco]

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...-campuses-blasphemy-killing-university-shocks





Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-brainwashed students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.

Fixed

 

[DrkSage]

Religion is a necessary evil

 

[zeemumu]

Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

I have so many questions and so much anger.

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?

Bad breakup, politician said it was okay, various reasons that all just boil down to racism, etc. The mental gymnastics on justification for horrible crimes is insane.

 

[Jenov]

Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

The women raised slogans in jubilation after his death, asserting that they had finally eliminated a blasphemer.

The women, in their statement to police, alleged that Abbas had committed blasphemy in 2004, but “we couldn’t kill him at the time because we were too young then”.

What the fuck.

 

[see5harp]

What a bunch of scum.

 

[Arkeband]

Traitors to the nation, the worst scum, degenerates of society, etc.

None of these reasons require religion, and they have all been used to sentence innocents to death for no real purpose beyond solidifying and enforcing a specific power structure.

Hell, America got worked into a frenzy over supposed communist invaders influencing the nation.

But the act of defiling a corpse serves some symbolic and spiritual importance, which makes it useless in a secular society, and it just becomes gross instead of being righteous. When they beat the corpse with paddles, they were still punishing 'him'. Without the idea of a spirit, 'him' stops being 'him' once he dies.

 

[Betty]

Religion is a necessary evil

No it's just a waste of time. Other than Buddhism it's all about making a select few powerful men even more powerful.

That's all it's ever been about.

Convince the masses their souls are in danger and that they must obey to save themselves no matter the price.

 

[zeemumu]

The women raised slogans in jubilation after his death, asserting that they had finally eliminated a blasphemer.

The women, in their statement to police, alleged that Abbas had committed blasphemy in 2004, but “we couldn’t kill him at the time because we were too young then”.

What the fuck.

13 years? How do you hold enough of a grudge to commit murder over alleged blasphemy for 13 years?! That's some evil.

 

[Maxinas]

Old as hell news. Yeah, it's quite sickening, but this is what happens when extremists use religion as a form of controlling the masses.

 

[Jonnax]

Student organisations sympathetic to the Islamists have taken up the cause. They often wield the threat of a blasphemy allegation in order to browbeat university departments into scrapping courses in music or comparative religion. A liberal lecturer at Bahauddin Zakariya University in the city of Multan was accused of blasphemy in 2013 by Islamist undergraduates; he remains in jail. His first lawyer was assassinated by unknown assailants.

wow.

 

[Simply Sami]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1327745

I actually saw this the other day.

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) chief Imran Khan, in a press conference alongside Mashal Khan's father Tuesday, issued a strongly worded condemnation of the 23-year-old's lynching on what has so far proven to be a baseless accusation.

"It has become clear during the investigation that Mashal never committed blasphemy. He was framed in a conspiracy and murdered," Imran Khan said.

"As a father, I can understand what Iqbal Khan [Mashal's father] is going through. This was a cruel deed and they used the blasphemy law as an excuse."

"I want to assure his parents that I will ensure justice for his death," Imran Khan said.

"Whoever planned his murder and whoever participated in it will be punished and made an example of for future generations," the PTI chief said.

"Even if the culprits are found to be from the PTI, they will be punished. We will not discriminate along party lines in pursuing this case," Imran Khan said.

"The entire country saw [what they did]. Even animals don't behave this way," he added.

"We will take this as a lesson and make sure no one ever misuses the blasphemy law again to murder people again," he added.

 

[Figments]

But the act of defiling a corpse serves some symbolic and spiritual importance, which makes it useless in a secular society, and it just becomes gross instead of being righteous. When they beat the corpse with paddles, they were still punishing 'him'. Without the idea of a spirit, 'him' stops being 'him' once he dies.

True, that there are a lot of spiritual implications for their actions that I will admit exist.

However, even the most secular societies still have concepts of honor and disgrace for the deceased. It's a feeling rooted in sentiment moreso than religion--the body reminds one of interactions with the person from when they were alive, and so many still treat it as "their" body, even though they're not here anymore.

 

[daviyoung]

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

the Quran has some very juicy parts regarding blasphemers and what shall be done with them so it's not really the case of people spinning it for their own agendas

 

[Jenov]

13 years? How do you hold enough of a grudge to commit murder over alleged blasphemy for 13 years?! That's some evil.

They were daydreaming about killing him as children and waited 13 years until they were adults to murder him. That's how fucking backwards it is there. There's something fundamentally broken with a culture that teaches children you're suppose celebrate and kill a person for saying a bad thing about your religion.

 

[azyless]

Religion is a necessary evil

How is it necessary

 

[Not]

Stop. Fucking. Killing people.

Like, if your culture requires you to kill people you disagree with, you're living in a fucking animalistic culture. Fight or GTFO if you can.

 

[SlimySnake]

Religion is a mistake.

Pakistan was a mistake.

there are dozens of muslim countries where shit like this doesnt happen, or at least not as frequently as it does in pakistan. i dont want to insult all Pakistanis but they are a failed society. they have laws where blasphemy is punished by death and no one seems to want to do anything about it. they are all complicit. I was born in pakistan and i would like to think my friends and family wont do anything like this, but it's a democracy and they ought to vote on ridiculous laws like this.

Stop. Fucking. Killing people.

Like, if your culture requires you to kill people you disagree with, you're living in a fucking animalistic culture. Fight or GTFO if you can.

No one wants to live in pakistan. there was a poll a few years ago where like 80% of the population wished to leave the country.

 

[Brakke]

"Shocked Pakistan" ? It's the law so I don't know what there is to be shocked about. That prime minister can condemn it all he wants he's just a hypocrite.

There's obviously a difference between a law that produces a shitty result and vigilantism that produces the same result.

 

[King_Moc]

No one wants to live in pakistan. there was a poll a few years ago where like 80% of the population wished to leave the country.

Lets hope that 80% don't believe in this crap then.

Unfortunately, I already know that isn't the case.

 

[Arttemis]

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms

And went on to provide / facilitate the means for North Korea to further their nuclear program after leaving the deproliferation pact.

 

[Primethius]

I think blaming it on religion here misses the underlying causes and overall issues. With the way Pakistan society is, especially culturally, religion largely ends up being a scapegoat for a lot of inner-cultural conflict. As you move to the more rural areas, especially ones without a lot of governance, it's pretty crazy just the amount of stuff elders will ascribe to religion as a means of motivation/guidance to a largely uneducated group of people.

 

[Chairman Yang]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1327745

I actually saw this the other day.

Here's my problem with Imran Khan's statement: he only objects to the killing based on the fact that the student didn't actually commit blasphemy. What if he had committed blasphemy? Would it have been okay to kill him then? (The apparent answer according to Pakistani society is "yes", by the way.)

 

[hiim_haz]

Pakistan was a mistake.

there are dozens of muslim countries where shit like this doesnt happen, or at least not as frequently as it does in pakistan. i dont want to insult all Pakistanis but they are a failed society. they have laws where blasphemy is punished by death and no one seems to want to do anything about it. they are all complicit. I was born in pakistan and i would like to think my friends and family wont do anything like this, but it's a democracy and they ought to vote on ridiculous laws like this.



No one wants to live in pakistan. there was a poll a few years ago where like 80% of the population wished to leave the country.

It's a corrupt country, and a pretty fucked up one.

My parents grew up in Pakistan and moved to Dubai before ending up in Canada. They can't believe what's happening in Pakistan. It's a complete opposite of what it was like for them growing up.