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CNBC — Can The Sony PlayStation Remain The Top-Selling Gaming Console?

Unknown?

Member
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Did Sony actually beat Nintendo? It’s highly profitable, sold over 125mil Switches, sold whole bunch of software selling in 10s of millions copies and has like $11bil in convertible securities/cash.

Edit: God, iOS error correction is utter trash.
Not taking from Nintendo at all. I’m sure SONY will do the same if they ever have to. But Nintendo’s biggest caveat in my opinion with the switch. Was combining their resources for their handheld and home console output. You can see the struggle the big 2 are having with production cost. With Nintendo’s great software output being thrown at one console. Them only needing to market one console. Then successfully doing a hybrid. They set theirselves up for success.

We can argue for days if the switch is a handheld or home console. But the truth is it got the pc companies looking to capitalize on that market with the handhelds we’ve seen come after. The pandemic also helped in Nintendos favor and they ran with it. I honestly think Sony needs to scale back their games with these high production costs and throw in those random titles that do or can take off. LBP, Astro Bots, Helldivers, etc. We need more games that are just fun. Especially since they to at soon to rely on subscriptions.

I think these companies know they’re hitting a plateau to how much people are willing to spend to just have fun. We might be loud on this forum. But truth be told the highest selling games are the same iterations of established franchises. Not the pretty graphics and stuff. As for Microsoft. Just get your developer in line and knock out game after game and put it on all the systems and reap the rewards. Especially with game pass.
 
Nah man. The first thing Sony fans (myself included) point to above all else when proclaiming victory in the console war is console sales. Nintendo Switch hasn't been defeated by anything in that regard. Damn sure can't turn this into a teraflops fight when it suits us.
This is what I don't understand from a majority of posts on here. Nintendo consoles sales have fallen off a cliff since Sony joined the industry. Their handhelds have done well and they have beaten Sony in that market but their consoles have sold like shit. The Wii is the only real success story and that was due to the gimmick and super cheap price point. I mean the Wii only sold about 20 mil more than sonys WEAKEST console in the PS3 since they joined the industry. If the next Nintendo system is a straight up home console (it won't be), no doubt in my mind it will bomb, as all of their other consoles pretty much have the past 30ish years.

To Nintendo's credit they have pivoted and killed in a different market and leverage their IP really well.
 
Did Sony actually beat Nintendo? It’s highly profitable, sold over 125mil Switches, sold whole bunch of software selling in 10s of millions copies and has like $11bil in convertible securities/cash.

Edit: God, iOS error correction is utter trash.

Good questions worth considering, but better to ask if PlayStation beat Nintendo. Sony as a whole isn't competing with Nintendo, just SIE, and in less direct a way they do with Xbox.

FWIW, SIE did push Nintendo out of traditional home console space they dominated with the Famicom/NES and Super Famicom/SNES. But I think people are seriously underestimating Switch 2 in terms of what 3P support it'll get, and certain 3P exclusives that have been easy for SIE to get for PS vs. Xbox, could get a lot harder to make with a competent Switch 2 around.

But we'll see how that all shakes out.

So, by 2025 they expect to put 50% of their investment into new franchises.

Sounds like they're about to step up their game with 1st party output.

Should ease the minds of some of the critics who whine about Sony only focusing on remasters.

Let's hope that includes a good number of AA games & traditional games, and genuine exclusives for the console.

I disagree with PlayStation beating Nintendo. Nintendo is in a better gaming state imo.

Xbox… well…. ya that’s a whole other thing.

Nintendo is probably currently in a more secure position imo than Sony due to their IP’s and their cost to market for games and probably hardware.

In comparison to SIE, yeah, that might be a fair assessment. Bringing budgets under control and maximizing the value of their tentpole IPs (the current PC strategy porting them at the frequency & timing of current is arguably devaluing them, IMHO) are big priorities for SIE.

Sony is also investing part of the profit into Playstation, which could be the reason why it's lower compared to Nintendo.

Yep, plus amortizing the costs of Bungie over multiple fiscal quarters.

Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.

They no longer get cod, ac, battlefield, and any of the big third party games Sony gets 30% royalties from. Re4, Star Wars, Alan wake, avatar, cod, and even hogwarts which came out on ps5, pc and xs and sold a billion worth of copies before it was hastily ported to switch for a fraction of the sales.

Nintendo has effectively conceded the console space but i would give the credit to both ms and Sony for that. Not just Sony.

I think you're underestimating what pull Switch 2 will have with 3P. If the upscaling is on-point and the base performance good enough, if it can replicate roughly Series S levels of performance when docked or even in handheld mode (via upscaling tech), Nintendo will be getting a lot more 3P support from Day 1 than the Switch did. The Switch came after the disaster of Wii U, so it had to re-establish a lot of trust. Switch 2 won't have to go through those steps since the Switch has proven its market viability so well.

Some of the 3P exclusives Sony have managed so far, are probably going to be a lot harder to get once Switch 2 launches and builds up its install base. Those sales splits are going to be a lot more competitive between PlayStation 5 and Switch 2 for a lot of 3P games going forward too, especially if Switch 2's install base builds very quickly. You bring up Hogwarts Legacy, yet the Switch version has been decimating the Xbox version in UK charts for months now, since the Switch port released, actually.

As for Nintendo conceding the traditional home console market, well I would say Sony were significantly more instrumental in that than Microsoft. The PS2 mangled Gamecube so badly that Nintendo basically remade the whole system and repackaged it as the Wii, which specifically avoided competition with 360 but, specifically, the PS3. PS4 and, I'd even say, the failure of PS Vita, probably alerted Nintendo to the growing difficulty with making unique software for both a home console and portable, and that by focusing on one rather than both they could address growing costs and maximize operations.

But instead of just abandoning handhelds outright like Sony did, Nintendo merged that and home console into a single product. That's a big reason how they were able to assert so much dominance in markets like Japan, for example. Xbox had no portable + home console strategy at the time that could've been gauged by Nintendo for what to do with Switch, the way Sony did with PS3 + PSP, then PS4 + PS Vita.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
But for how long? Their core audience of children are rapidly moving over to tablets for gaming instead. They look comfy now, but I think they are gonna have a few challenges of their own in a few years. With that said….. I think they will be the last dedicated gaming hardware company. I’m just wondering how many more of these hardware ideas they have in them that will differentiate them from their competition in their usual target audiences eyes ( kids with ever shortening attention spans)
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.

They no longer get cod, ac, battlefield, and any of the big third party games Sony gets 30% royalties from. Re4, Star Wars, Alan wake, avatar, cod, and even hogwarts which came out on ps5, pc and xs and sold a billion worth of copies before it was hastily ported to switch for a fraction of the sales.

Nintendo has effectively conceded the console space but i would give the credit to both ms and Sony for that. Not just Sony.
But Nintendo still makes more profits and has 1st-party sales that make Sony's top-sellers look like a bunch of indie games.

That they hopped out of the graphics arms race before inevitably crashing like Sony is about to might have been more foresight rather than an admission of defeat. Now, Sony are the ones producing games costing $200M+ with no end in sight. They even need to port them to PC to recoup their investments and effectively cannot turn back because it's their niche and they're the best at it.

Sony definitely beat Nintendo with the PS1 and PS2. Nintendo got smart with the Wii, bombed with the Wii U but came back stronger than ever with the Switch. Nintendo is in a better position now than they were with the DS and Wii.
 
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It was also the least-used console and WiiU showed that the Wii was a lucky strike because of the motion-controller fad.
Oh yeah, and the Switch laps PS5 regularly as well. But as others have said, Sony has beaten Nintendo plenty of times as well so it's a very healthy rivalry.
 

Damigos

Member
Nintendo may be in a safer position, but i personally consider playstation as the winner due to the fact that it covers everyone. Handhelds (ahem), VR, cutting edge tech, strong IPs, exclusives, controller, price (compared to pc ofc) etc.
I am on PS since 1995 and except for a couple of years with PS3 i wasnt dissappointed.
MS is in the worst position because they lack vision and dont have the ability to produce >90 exclusives. Also its irrelevant to have an xbox if you own a PC
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But for how long? Their core audience of children are rapidly moving over to tablets for gaming instead. They look comfy now, but I think they are gonna have a few challenges of their own in a few years. With that said….. I think they will be the last dedicated gaming hardware company. I’m just wondering how many more of these hardware ideas they have in them that will differentiate them from their competition in their usual target audiences eyes ( kids with ever shortening attention spans)
Nintendo has been in the business since the late 70s. What are you talking about with their core audience of children growing up? You think 120M+ units sold are just children?
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.
This is a failed argument and makes absolutely no sense to use for the switch.

Back then, Nintendo DS and Wii had two completely different libraries, you could see houses having several very very cheap Nintendo DS due to how cheap they were.

Right now there's basically no reason to have multiple switches for a single person since Lite and normal have same library, but houses can have multiple switches anyway for different people which is way bigger profit margin then Wii and DS combined.

It's simply a too different scenario and in terms of sales, switch is more sustained and brings more money to them. They lost nothing, but the opposite.
 

jm89

Member
Pretty sure Wii beat the pants off PS3 and DS destroyed PSP, oh and 3DS ate Vita's lunch every day.
I don't kniow about software sales between wii and ps3.

But hardware sales atleast it wasn't a huge diffrence.

Wii ended on around 101 million, ps3 ended on around 87 million units.

On the non handheld front Sony stomped nintendo most generations, even the weakest sony gen wasn't a big diffrence between nintendo or sony. Reverse was true for handhelds.
 
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Deerock71

Member
The Wii was also the least-used console and WiiU showed that the Wii was a lucky strike because of the motion-controller fad.
It's more fun to watch a puncher than a boxer, so Nintendo's more fun to watch than Sony; it's true Sony scores more points, but Nintendo can knock you out with one punch.
 

tmlDan

Member
I disagree with PlayStation beating Nintendo. Nintendo is in a better gaming state imo.

Xbox… well…. ya that’s a whole other thing.

Nintendo is probably currently in a more secure position imo than Sony due to their IP’s and their cost to market for games and probably hardware.
its always easier to reduce costs than to gain revenue. Nintendo is significantly lower than PS in overall revenue.

I get their profits being high, but how will they gain more revenue? thats much harder to do than cut costs, lay off people, and be more cost efficient.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Nintendo is the richest company in Japan and they're about to beat the PS2's lifetime sales. So who gives a shit?
You do with this off point reply.

Doesn't change what I said.
PS2 is a console.
Sony caused them to stop making traditional consoles.
Switch isn't a traditional console.
It is a hybrid(gimmick)and generations weaker(uses a mobile chipset)
Nintendo knows not to reenter the traditional console market.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
It's more fun to watch a puncher than a boxer, so Nintendo's more fun to watch than Sony; it's true Sony scores more points, but Nintendo can knock you out with one punch.
Honestly, both Sony and Nintendo are punchers and boxers.

Oh yeah, and the Switch laps PS5 regularly as well. But as others have said, Sony has beaten Nintendo plenty of times as well so it's a very healthy rivalry.
Sure, but on the other hand, Playstation is carrying the console-industry hard right now.

We also shouldn't ignore the fact that the success of Switch is due to it being a hybrid and Nintendo managing to lump their handheld and console installbases together.

But I agree, both will provide healthy competition, which I think is good for the console-space in general.
 

ManaByte

Banned
You do with this off point reply.

Doesn't change what I said.
PS2 is a console.
Sony caused them to stop making traditional consoles.
Switch isn't a traditional console.
It is a hybrid(gimmick)and generations weaker(uses a mobile chipset)
Nintendo knows not to reenter the traditional console market.
Nintendo owns the gaming industry in Japan. They’re doing something right.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Last I remember, Nintendo is the company with zero debt, doesn’t have to release their games on other platforms, and still is able to sell their games for full price years after launch with no issues.

Sony and Nintendo are in direct competition and will continue to be doing so for years to come, as much as some here like to claim the opposite.

I've got to disagree with that on the basis that the Nintendo and Playstation both give the other a bit of market-space to exploit. They don't go after each other too hard, or at least certainly not in the same way that Xbox was always kinda pitched as a like-for-like alternative to Playstation.

Nintendo have a very specific and clearly defined market identity. Their stuff looks, feels and is perceived differently. For lack of a better analogy they are very much like golden-age Disney, they inhabit the same market generally but play by their own rules. In my view were they to try and aggressively expand the way modern day Disney has, i think they'd meet the same fate. An initial bloom of success that is followed by a catastrophic loss of identity and brand prestige.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
its always easier to reduce costs than to gain revenue. Nintendo is significantly lower than PS in overall revenue.

I get their profits being high, but how will they gain more revenue? thats much harder to do than cut costs, lay off people, and be more cost efficient.
Sony are the ones fiddling around trying to figure out way to reduce costs and increase profit margins, not Nintendo who aren’t even considering porting their games to PC.
 

jm89

Member
Sony are the ones fiddling around trying to figure out way to reduce costs and increase profit margins, not Nintendo who aren’t even considering porting their games to PC.
Well that's the current state yes, even nintendo went though multiple points were they were figuring things out.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
thats what i said, what are you even saying?
You asked how Nintendo would gain more revenues, didn’t you? That’s something Sony is worrying about and not even revenues since they get plenty but off the back of $200M+ games.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Nintendo is in much better financial shape with zero debt. They make more profit and and margin too than Sony's gaming division. Wii beat PS3, and Switch beat out PS4, will beat out PS2 soon, and will beat PS5 too.

Investors feel the same. Nintendo market cap is $65B and all they do is games. Sony as an entire company is $107B.
 

Woopah

Member
As I've said in a previous thread, they are strong in different areas.

Sony wins in revenue, third party sales, subscriptions, and overall in Europe.

Nintendo wins in profit, first party sales, hardware and overall in Asia.

its always easier to reduce costs than to gain revenue. Nintendo is significantly lower than PS in overall revenue.

I get their profits being high, but how will they gain more revenue? thats much harder to do than cut costs, lay off people, and be more cost efficient.
Easiest way for Nintendo to gain more revenue is release the Switch 2.

We should also take into account that the two companies report third party digital sales in different ways, and Sony's revenue would be noticeably lower if they switched to the Nintendo way (their overall revenue would still be way higher though).
 
It’s easy to tell who is in the best spot.

Microsoft would switch Xbox’s place in the world with either PlayStation or Nintendo in a heartbeat.

Sony would not switch with Xbox but would love to switch with Nintendo.

Nintendo would not switch with either.

You can’t say someone “beat” the other when the market is always changing and new hardware is always coming out.
 

Celine

Member
Makes me laughs when clueless people says Sony caused Nintendo to steer away from traditional console.
Nintendo is a trend-setter by vocation, in fact their unique hardware/software integration is cited left and right when Nintendo explains why they are so successful.
Their business thrives by introducing novel concepts that differ from the past.
When Nintendo imposed the d-pad with the introduction of the Famicom/NES what was perceived as the tradition was the crappy joysticks from Atari and others console makers of the time before.
Detractors use the term 'tradition' thinking to belittle Nintendo when Nintendo couldn't care less about previously set standards (instead Nintendo very much cares about 'legacy').

its always easier to reduce costs than to gain revenue. Nintendo is significantly lower than PS in overall revenue.

I get their profits being high, but how will they gain more revenue? thats much harder to do than cut costs, lay off people, and be more cost efficient.
And yet Nintendo outprofiting PlayStation (SIE/SCE) is a constant through decades (with a couple exceptions) and not a spotty occurrence.


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tmlDan

Member
You asked how Nintendo would gain more revenues, didn’t you? That’s something Sony is worrying about and not even revenues since they get plenty but off the back of $200M+ games.
But that's also something Nintendo has to worry about, they are also trying to grow and yet they're still significantly behind playstation. As i said, its easier to cut costs than gain revenue.
 
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