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CNN Monday: Healthcare debate between Graham/Cassidy and Bernie/Kobluchar
- Thread starter Randolph Freelander
- Start date
Which is why I assume Graham and Cassidy are all for this.
For all that Trump gets credit for playing 4-D chess with distractions, this seems like an incredibly transparent way to pull heat off the Graham/Cassidy bill that is an actual threat by repositioning the left as socialists. Maybe Bernie manages to focus on the current threat, but I'm not super convinced.
Like. Have the debate after the reconciliation date is behind us and the healthcare discussion moves beyond Graham/Cassidy's disaster. This timing is transparent as hell, and Senators should insist on actual debate within the Senate instead of CNN.
BotoxAgent
Member
Dont feel confident that CNN will moderate this properly or fact check this properly
Of course he is, he had his own detailed plan to fund his bill a long time ago and he had one during the election in fact.
The issue now is that many senators are scared that you can't sell any type of tax increase politically with midterm elections coming up where the GOP will constantly regurgitate "higher taxes higher taxes higher taxes". Hence why he had to leave any funding mechanisms out of his bill for senators to feel "safe" enough to come on board as co sponsors
Which IIRC was also one reason why Vermont's bill never got passed as well, in addition to the insurance companies coming down hard on the possibility of it passing. It actually could have been funded and been implemented just fine, but politics and the optics derailed its chances
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...t-single-payer-was-scrapped-because-it-was-g/
*EDIT*
The issue i have with people saying "Its bad timing" is that its many of the same people who would then say "we just got done with the battle repealing the ACA and now you want to introduce this??" It is never the right time to ever fight for things that are important on a macro level. That's not how i believe big changes occur. We can apply that hypothetical to any big legislative reform push that has ever happend in America and then say "its not the time" to advocate for this or that....there has to be a right time.
Lol where do you people get this stuff?
I hope Sanders and Klobuchar are mean as fuck to those clowns. Drag their asses.
Fenderputty
Banned
None of these people debating on the stage are. They're politicians.
Debate single payer when we don't run the risk of having the ACA being boned in a week. This should be dems attacking GC and nothing more.
There's a reason Graham and Cassidy agreed to this. They know their best chance to sway public opinion is to debate Bernie and turn it into a debate about their plan vs. single payer and try to set the narrative.
Yeah, I think he's decent for moral outrage which is a useful tool in this debate. He speaks simply, he repeats shit and he'll call a mother fucker a liar. I'm fine with this seeing as how the GOP is debating from a position of "tens of millions will lose health care but whatever freedom."
Black Mamba
Member
No, he's not. He's not a actuary or runs/works directly with Health Organizations and such. He's not a health care economist (or any kind for that matter).
Does Bernie know more than most people? Yes. Does he know more than Cassidey/Graham. Yes!
Still no expert.
Conciliator
Banned
yeah, these TV debates like this...they usually seem pointless to me. It will be messy and awkward and expensive looking.
but lol at the idea that Bernie will shit on the ACA when he's been out here on these dumb TV shows defending it non stop. Out of like the 4 talking points he ever makes, one is all about ACA insurees and protecting the ACA.
but lol at the idea that Bernie will shit on the ACA when he's been out here on these dumb TV shows defending it non stop. Out of like the 4 talking points he ever makes, one is all about ACA insurees and protecting the ACA.
I never saw that but now that I think about it, he never really had a standout Primary debate performance. He's better at speeches. He could be really good if he stays disciplined enough to be an attack dog.
LegendofJoe
Member
Cassidy is actually a M.D. I'm sure he will let everyone know that as often as possible.
You think people win debates by getting into details?
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
I'm going in front my TV on Monday like.
HOLLA HOLLA
HOLLA HOLLA
Randolph Freelander
Member
Fenderputty
Banned
Right and polling on single payer is wishy washy at best and highly susceptible to attacks from either side. See below.
That's better than just being a politician as far as speaking form a place of authority, but even that doesn't really make someone an expert in healthcare.
It's a literal sideshow. They are tryin to rush something horrible through the Senate to fuck over healthcare to free up donor money, and they are running out of time. It's not going through normal review processes, not getting any official debate. It's a horrible thing and stopping them should be the focus.
This turns the real political threat into a media circus; the debate accomplishes nothing and can't really hurt Graham and Cassidy at all. Everyone paying attention already know their stuff is garbage. But if they can handle Bernie properly, they may be able to make themselves seem more reasonable in comparison. They aren't trying to convince single-payer advocates of anything, they just want to be able to point at something Republicans will hate and go "it's our bill or this is the dark future." Bernie's strength isn't really in winning the hearts and minds of Republicans via debate, and that's why they'd want to debate him.
The timing is important because there is absolutely a reason they want to do this next week, and at the very least they should be denied that.
Fenderputty
Banned
https://mobile.twitter.com/frankthorp/status/910978234346610688
Frank Thorp V
Frank Thorp V @frankthorp
If Im successful its the end of Bernie-care," -- @LindseyGrahamSC on @Josh_Kimbrell Radio just now.
Only people excited about this are the Berniecrats and the republicans ...
IamDodongo
Member
Hopefully Bernie will be the hype man while Klobuchar hits em with the facts.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Theyre going to beat Bernie up bringing up the VA scandals. Hopefully he is ready.
LegendofJoe
Member
It doesn't, but that won't stop Cassidy from positioning himself as one.
And Graham apparently said in an interview that their goal is to position their bill as an alternative to Bernie-care. If Bernie falls for that tactic and ends up debating the merits of single-payer I will never forgive him. If he is that stupid he needs to quit politics and retire.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Hmmm. I think this is dumb just because its dumb for CNN to do these pointless debates, but I feel pretty confident in Bernie and Klobuchar here.
Ew, no. I've changed my mind. Cancel the debates.
Fenderputty
Banned
Yup. He's going to put Bernie on the defense against his plan when this entire thing should be Dems shitting on the GC bill in comparison to the ACA. That's what we're fighting for right now. Not single payer.
What planet is this?
Which is exactly what it shouldn't be about. The focus needs to be on just not letting the GC bill pass.
eBay Huckster
Member
all this debate's going to convince me of is that Klobuchar would've won
Fenderputty
Banned
Planet reality. What one have you been living on?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Graham: Taxes taxes taxes taxes taxes
Cassidy: As a doctor.....
Cassidy: As a doctor.....
LegendofJoe
Member
Agreed, hopefully Amy Klobuchar has more sense and is driving this point home to Bernie. Don't say a single damn thing about Medicare for all. The debate right now is the law as stands with the PPACA and the proposed changes from Graham-Cassidy.
I know, right?
Rewind 12 months and "Bernie just talks about the same shit over and over and over."
Bernie gives a good stump speech and will give it here in debate form, most likely.
Graham/Cassidy will lie and claim their bill does things that it doesn't do.
CNN will not fact check.
Lol. You clinton people are so desperate to drag his name through the mud.
Ugh, this is not going to be good framing. This is exactly what the republicans want. Frame their non-solution as the only thing standing between us and single payer. That's not where the debate should be right now. The debate should be about whether we literally kill off our citizens with Graham/Cassidy's fucking horrendous bill or we don't.
Knowing how he performed against Cruz is not "dragging his name through the mud".
RPGCrazied
Member
Pointless. We know whats all in the bill. We don't need to hear them try to defend it when you can't. This is probably to appease McCain who wanted hearings to move forward.
Father_Brain
Banned
I am shocked to hear that much of PoliGAF is unhappy about something Bernie Sanders is doing. Shocked, I tell you.
Fenderputty
Banned
lol you Bernie people are desperate to drag her name through the mud. (shit posting is so easy!!!!!)
This isn't about dragging anyone's name through the mud. This is about saving the ACA next week and attacking the GC bill for how awful it is. There's a time and place to discuss the merits of single payer in an open debate. That's not next Monday. If Bernie strays or goes on the defensive ... it's a net loss.
And this is why GOPers will constantly want to involve Bernie. More than anybody else currently active in the left, pulling Sanders in will turn the left on itself as everything turns into the divisiveness of last year's primaries.
They are aiming to use Bernie here. And it might work. Which is horrific.
CrocMother
Banned
Bernie Sanders has been debating health care policy for decades. I'll have some faith in him.
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm shocked Berniecrats can't think critically about anything beyond rooting for the boi (literally the first bernicrat post in this thread.) Shocked, I tell you. Wait one fucking week and nobody in this thread would give a damn. I sure as shit wouldn't.
Bernie has made it pretty clear that ACA needs to be saved for now and Kobluchar has not co sponsored his bill. Why are you making assumptions.
Any politician worth their salt knows that all they need to do to whoop Bernie is get him in the weeds. The man can't do detailed policy discussion (or even fake it convincingly) to save his life.
Expecting Klobuchar to carry the team here while Bernie grandstands.
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