It's a bullshit theory because the ACA is more popular than ever among both sides of the isle and any bill that's been brought up has had abysmal approval ratings. Some of you guys really have no idea what you're talking about
CNN: Senate rejects full Obamacare repeal without replacement
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It's a bullshit theory because the ACA is more popular than ever among both sides of the isle and any bill that's been brought up has had abysmal approval ratings. Some of you guys really have no idea what you're talking about
Worked for Trump.
They will still vote Republican. They can't help themselves.
They'll probably just pass skinny repeal to get it to a conference which they say will totally fix it, just like the Senate was supposed to fix the House bill. None of them want to be the one that actually kills it dead so they'll inevitably pass the buck as many times as possible.
nintendoman58
Member
All of them?
I do admit I'll laugh if the House kills it after Ryan talked about how the House did its part.
Let that sink in.
7 out of all the Republicans in the room.
Only 7 thought this was a bad thing. The rest was more than ready to toss Health insurance in the bin and not give anything else to everyone in the US. in the meantime while they would spend the next year or two trying to come up with a replacement.
ONLY 7(!) FUCKING REPUBLICANS GOT TO THEIR SENSES!
Out of curiosity, how many Democrats voted for it?
GoldenEye 007
Member
j_k_redtail
Member
What's with this post? The GOP base still wants the law repealed, regardless of what's in the replacement. McConnell is responding to that. It may or may not work, but that's the idea. Spare me your vitriol.
It is the death of the marketplace. No insurer can cover pre-existing conditions with no penalty for not owning insurance.
My guess is the skinny repeal is a gun to the head of Dems to force them to work with Rs on replacing.
The problem for McConnell is thus:
1) Republicans want Obamacare gone
2) Republicans don't want the replacement.
Republican voters can poll at repealing Obamacare as much as they want, when their replacement polls at 11-16% approval they are just picking a different sword to die on.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yup. ACA is their ideal healthcare plan. But it's already implemented- by a person they hate with all their being. The only way to replace it with something more popular is to add in a public option or go to a single payer type system. And no GOP person would be caught dead voting for a plan that would guarantee that type of coverage for citizens.
Thus the difficulty they have been having now that they actually got power. People want to see improvements over ACA, not any plan just because it isn't ACA.
j_k_redtail
Member
Oh I totally agree with you - I'm just not sure where this nastiness --
-- is coming from. They want theater; McConnell is giving them theater. That's the answer I was giving.
AstroNut325
Member
Run where in the hills? They still have to cover people with pre existing conditions whether they get it from an ACA market or not.
It would strip the individual mandate which will cause a full Obamacare death spiral. While both Dems and Repubs dislike the individual mandate, axing it without replacement means this administration will effectively own any fallout because of this. It's a bad look for them going into the midterms which is why this is their plan C.
They are not required by law to offer individual insurance. They can simply offer group plans in various states.
It will be worse than before Obamacare because I likely won't even be able to get *any* coverage being a small business owner.
I know, what I'm saying is the insurers are still screwed since their pools will be much sicker. I'm not saying this doesn't screw individuals or business owners. I don't know how bad it will ultimately hurt insurers but it will hurt them.
Bull fucking shit it doesn't mean nothing yet. Their efforts to repeal and or replace are getting more and more watered down as they keep FAILING to get the votes necessary.
nintendoman58
Member
You think literally all of them think like this?
I think you're just focusing on a very vocal group of hardcore supporters in contrast with the general populace.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Would it hurt them? They could just pull out, right?
It wasn't nastiness, it was a stating of fact. As we've already seen, they aren't just going to rally behind any bill just because it's a repeal, which is what you were saying. People don't want to lose their insurance, and as stupid as these voters can be, when it's something that directly affects them they can surprisingly smarten up.
You do know that some of those R votes were no because it's likely not severe enough or a full repeal right?
Their pools will be much healthier because they will be group plans (companies, etc) which tend to skew healthier.
Back in the day this was how insurance companies operated:
1) If you are in a group we can assume a nice diversified risk profile of workers and price well.
2) If you are an individual we cannot aggregate risk because we don't have a solid cross-section of people applying so we are going to make you take a physical, get a full medical history and we will individually underwrite health insurance based on risk. So, we can deny coverage or put riders into the coverage that don't cover certain pre-existing conditions because we could lose our ass and go bankrupt.
Number 2 is now illegal. Which means they will simply only offer #1 and fuck over anyone who doesn't work for an employer who offers insurance.
It would start a death spiral. Less people in pool=less stable pool=higher rates to compensate=equals more people leaving because of costs=equals higher rates...
Repeat until the health insurance industry (1/6 of the economy!) is completely fucked.
GoldenEye 007
Member
That part, I know. I was just talking short term. Hell even 2018 when the new plan year starts, that could be a likely situation, right?
j_k_redtail
Member
No, I was responding to this:
You don't believe it -- fine. I don't completely buy it either, but what's important is the fact that McConnell is convinced enough to think that this'll work out for him in 2018. That is why we are going through this charade. Do you understand that?
No he's actually right. This is just a theatrics vote, it was merely a formality and pure political hackery, everyone knew it would fail. Save the memes and the L's for the real fight, which is is expected to be the Skinny Repeal. That is where the storm truly is.
GoldenEye 007
Member
They're going through with this because if this fails, their entire legislative agenda goes down in flames. Even a skinny repeal makes them start over on tax reform and a budget.
They pinned all of their later legislative items on a full repeal and replacement of ACA. Now they're simply desperate.
It would be the kind of problem that compounds with time. So short term? Bad but not crazy, some pull out. Long term? New recession.
TheSkullPrince
Member
How many heads will this fucking Hydra grow?
Was about to post this. It's tragic and scary.
j_k_redtail
Member
Fair enough. I don't think we actually disagree; point is McConnell just needs a win for both procedural purposes (for this fiscal year) and political purposes (the 2018 elections).
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yes, that's also true. I feel like this process is to just get any win possible. But going "skinny" isn't exactly the improvement that will have people celebrating when they see their new premiums for 2018.
wumster3000
Member
Good. Repel and replace later seems like they could throw anything at us. With nothing, you become desperate for something.
No current vote would be to protect Medicaid and disabled americans and send the bill back to committee where proper procedure could occur
The Last Wizard
Member
Yup, this aint nothing but a trick to lull everyone again.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Wait I thought people said he voted yes? Or was that another vote?
How many voting does this thing have?!
Oh the voting insanity hasn't begun. Before the final vote will be what's dubbed a votearama where there is no debate but there is non stop machine-gunning of amendment votes until everything is addressed.
After that point they will then try to slam through skinny repeal or something equally awful
It depends on the insurer and their business model. The smaller the pools whether employee based or not the higher the risk and since they can't even ask about a person's health under current law other than tobacco use, smaller insurers won't know what to do. They can't just not offer plans to everybody. Some insurers will end up bankrupt over this. Hell even the major insurers took massive hits because they didn't read the market right with the mandate. Admittedly the major insurers like United and Anthem I'm sure can rely on huge employer pools and not worry, others not so much especially the ones that made at least some revenue from individual and small group markets.
Nah, because of Obama. He needs to undo everything Obama has done
"Liberal fish are trying to steal your water!!!" or something. The Fox News viewers don't see any of this, they just see propaganda telling them to vote Republican.
They don't even know what Republicans actually do, they are just conditioned to think Republicans are the good guys and should be voted for.
darthsontin
Member
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