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[snap0212]

Normally I enjoy listening to your rants, but the fact that you managed to post this without a hint of irony is hilarious. Why should he give a shit what you say when you're treating him like shit? If the sniping community stopped acting so butthurt and actually felt like engaging in reasonable dialogue, the entire debate would have gone completely differently.

There's no reasonable dialogue to be had between Treyarch and the sniping community when a Treyarch rep posts online about how quickscoping was a "cheap way to play", that they're "specifically going to gimp" it, and that everyone should "Play straight-up". His comment did not leave any room for any quickscoper or the community to share what they have to say about it. He shared facts and people got upset about it. He never, ever wanted to have a dialogue.

He also mis-presented what quickscoping really is and why people quickscope. He ignored the fact that even the hardcore quickscope community didn't like the way "Modern Warfare 2" handeled quickscoping. Treyarch (or their Reps) made it look like it's a simple method to get easy, fast kills used by people who don't know how to be able to win otherwise. That's not what why people are quickscoping/no-scoping. It's because of the extra challenge, because you're doing something that not everyone can do. Even in "Modern Warfare 2" there were a lof of really bad quickscopers, even with sleight of hand pro and steady aim.

Treyarch never intended to fix the problems that "Modern Warfare 2" had to limit the number of people who would chose the sniper rifle as their main weapon, they completely ruined all the sniper guns completely with their solution. This leads to a situation where you'd consider their sniper classes to be broken alltogether.

If you're mad about the way some people in the quickscoping community are acting, fine, but you also have to see that the comments made by Treyarch did not leave any room for any opinions from those people. "That's the way it's going to be... Period!" is the worst thing you could say if you want to start a discussion about something.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So I'm not a huge sniper, but it seems kinda like this simple solution could solve a lot of sniper problems (snipers, please tell me if I'm way off base). Give snipers the normal scope-in when crouched or prone, and a super-long scope-in when standing. That's it - no other tricks. Would this work? I'm just spitballing here.

you are back..? (I do not even know why you where gone)

What is your lowdown on Black Ops..? haven´t read any impressions from you since the game launched,,.,

Came back yesterday. So far I'm loving this game. I have no major complaints, aside from the damn sniper tower on Firing Range! :lol

 

[Anerythristic]

Well Second Chance Pro had a good run, nobody falls for it anymore I went to Hacker Pro.

 

[Stallion Free]

Well Second Chance Pro had a good run, nobody falls for it anymore I went to Hacker Pro.

So you learned to stop being a bitch and accept death? Good.

 

[Songbird]

The two clear examples are the indoor area soon after you shoot down the giant rocket from the sky. Immediately afterward you enter into a building and guy after guy floods into a hallway until you move up. The other was the defend Khe Sanh level, where you have to move down the hill and stab barrels with your knife.

The trick of course is that there’s a trigger that prevents more guys from spawning in, or at least some script condition that needs to be met. Once you hit that trigger or that condition is met, you’re good. But until then, enemies will spawn in and move to the cover point you just killed his predecessor on. Forever.

The problem is use of infinite spawners in the improper context will break immersion and frustrate the player.

Oh my god, this. Those are the two hardest parts of the game for me (except for the stealth mission I skipped). Get your act together guys!

 

[snap0212]

So I'm not a huge sniper, but it seems kinda like this simple solution could solve a lot of sniper problems (snipers, please tell me if I'm way off base). Give snipers the normal scope-in when crouched or prone, and a super-long scope-in when standing. That's it - no other tricks. Would this work? I'm just spitballing here.

I don't think it would work, because this would affect "normal" players in a bad way as well. You sometimes have to stand up to get a good view (behind a barrel, for example). Every normal sniper would be at a disadvantage if he's not looking through the scope all the time. Looking through the scope all the time makes you slow as hell and would probably lead to camping.

My solution would be that you just don't show the cross-hairs when using a sniper rifle. That plus the regular scope-in time (which was one of the main problems in MW2) would solve a lot of problems but would not affect sniping in general and would "force" you to really learn how to handle the gun. The cross-hairs are actually a big deal, because (in MW2 for example) when someone is right in the middle of them and not too far away all you had to do was zoom-in + shoot. The sometimes aggressive auto-aim helped you a lot doing that.

 

[Raiden]

Well Second Chance Pro had a good run, nobody falls for it anymore I went to Hacker Pro.

I still use it, i get shot around a corner, in a window/doorway enough. Also you can crawl away, and in HC modes you reflex shoot and have a good chance for a kill anyway.

 

[kitch9]

If I don't get my hands on a sentry soon to kill I'm going to punch myself.....

I'd laid on out for someone to take whilst I'd hidden out of the way and the guy who took managed to run straight toward me so I had to kill him and then he spawned at the other side of the damn map and somebody else FUCKING took it.

I swear nobody uses em in this damn game....

 

[Stoney Mason]

I wish I could have played pre the first sniping patch to see what it felt like then. I do think simply removing the sleight of hand perk by itself is a big deal for most normal snipers and would have done a good job of chasing off more casual snipers. That perk is essentially what made sniping doable for me for the first time ever in a COD game in MW with the faster ADS. (And a bit of generous aim assist)

But Treyarch still must not have been satisfied with the ability to easily quick scope with just that as witnessed by some of the quick scoping videos that made their way out from the beta. There is a fine line to be tread here. But while I think sniping is too easy in MW 2, it's too hard/broken currently in Black Ops. And I don't the silenced snipers are the real problem although I'm sure that can be tweaked also. Somewhere closer to a middle ground between the two games is the more correct answer.

The thing is this game is so clearly designed to be an SMG or assault rifle game via certain perks or map design and weapon balance that I don't think you really needed all these aggresive curbs on sniping. The game was naturally going this way anyway because of design choices. So you don't need to over do it. I think they kind of over responded to a perceived anger at quick scopers in MW 2.

 

[Stoney Mason]

If I don't get my hands on a sentry soon to kill I'm going to punch myself.....

I'd laid on out for someone to take whilst I'd hidden out of the way and the guy who took managed to run straight toward me so I had to kill him and then he spawned at the other side of the damn map and somebody else FUCKING took it.

I swear nobody uses em in this damn game....

I found playing longer modes like regular domination, is where its easier to get that challenge. Because you are more likely to see everything in a longer match.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I just unlocked the ak74u but I still like the mp5k better. Maybe it's that I'm using the refliex sight? Should you attach something else to the ak74u? like rapid fire or something?

Rapid Fire and Grip (using Warlord) is the most common combo for the AK74u. Lowers the recoil and increases its deadliness.

Completely unrelated, but I've been playing around with the SPAS-12 since I recently got it. Damn that thing is a beast at close range! Just point the killing end toward the thing you want dead and apply until the target stops resisting. I've never been much of a shotgun main guy, always preferred LMGs and mid-to-long range combat style, but they seem to make you move way slower in Black Ops than they did in CoD4/W@W/MW2, so I've been branching out and trying different things. Running a build of:

SPAS-12 w/Silencer
Makarov w/Improved Sights (because I apparently can't hit the broad side of a barn without it)
Simtex/Decoy/Claymore
Ghost/Hardened/Second Chance

And it's really working well for me. At least it gives me something other than AK74uing it up every map.

 

[sturmdogg]

I just unlocked the ak74u but I still like the mp5k better. Maybe it's that I'm using the refliex sight? Should you attach something else to the ak74u? like rapid fire or something?

Perk: warlord
Attachments: grip+rapid fire

Applies to all submachine guns

 

[luoapp]

Perk: warlord
Attachments: grip+rapid fire

Applies to all submachine guns

Am I the only one using a suppressor on any guns?:lol

 

[WickedLaharl]

AK47 with extended mags is so awesome.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Perk: warlord
Attachments: grip+rapid fire

Applies to all submachine guns

lol that's what I do with the 74-u, it's so ridiculous. Very fun.

Also people, I went without internet for a week...just imagine it. That is all.

 

[buy teh haloz]

AK47 with extended mags is so awesome.

Yeah, it really is.

 

[zero margin]

Perk: warlord
Attachments: grip+rapid fire

Applies to all submachine guns

pretty sure 74u is the only one with a grip attachment anyway.

 

[buy teh haloz]

pretty sure 74u is the only one with a grip attachment anyway.

All the SMG's have a grip actually. (Except for the MP5k.)

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Good conversations

If only the sniping community as a whole acted this reasonable. You managed to articulate your thoughts cohesively and without using any swear words - if the folks on the CoD boards and Twitter and various other forums were like this, I imagine the entire situation would have gone differently.

To be fair - I'm not completely defending Treyarch's decisions regarding snipers; they were far too overzealous to gimp quickscopers and completely trashed "straight-up" snipers in the process. And I've never seen a developer of a multiplayer game go so far out of their way to cut out a subcommunity so completely before - it's somewhat unprecedented (except perhaps with fighting games, but those guys are crazy!). But the reaction certainly didn't make Treyarch feel like changing their minds, and continuing to degrade and swear at the devs isn't going to help the cause.

 

[Always-honest]

Well Second Chance Pro had a good run, nobody falls for it anymore I went to Hacker Pro.

the ONLy thing i liked was that you could still Knife a person

 

[zero margin]

All the SMG's have a grip actually. (Except for the MP5k.)

wtf. I must be blind.

 

[codecow]

Am I alone in this or is anyone else finding this game to be a bit of "Been there, done that"? The changes, while cool, are not holding my interest for as long as I was hoping and I found myself this morning thinking about playing something else already

 

[Stoney Mason]

If only the sniping community as a whole acted this reasonable. You managed to articulate your thoughts cohesively and without using any swear words - if the folks on the CoD boards and Twitter and various other forums were like this, I imagine the entire situation would have gone differently.

To be fair - I'm not completely defending Treyarch's decisions regarding snipers; they were far too overzealous to gimp quickscopers and completely trashed "straight-up" snipers in the process. And I've never seen a developer of a multiplayer game go so far out of their way to cut out a subcommunity so completely before - it's somewhat unprecedented. But the reaction certainly didn't make Treyarch feel like changing their minds, and continuing to degrade and swear at the devs isn't going to help the cause.

While I agree there are a lot of asshole quickscopers, I think Treyarch's job is more to ignore the worst of the community and do what is right for the game. Even if a bunch of quick scopers are assholes online (which they are), that's not a good reason to dismiss valid complaints. But I think you and I are on the same page on this.

For what its worth I don't want to make it seem like I dislike Treyarch. 9 out of every 10 calls they made in balance changes for this game were the correct or respectable ones. I'm really enjoying the game. It's just the sniping call was one of the wrong ones.

The conversation is explained very well here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJG0hrut7Bo

 

[J-Roderton]

Why is it almost useless for me to even try using anything other than an assault rifle?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Why is it almost useless for me to even try using anything other than an assault rifle?

I do fine with LMG's and SMG's and shotguns, and even pistols. Not sure what you mean?

 

[J-Roderton]

I do fine with LMG's and SMG's and shotguns, and even pistols. Not sure what you mean?

I guess I should have rephrased that. It seems anytime I try and use a semi auto gun, (snipers or semi rifles) I can't do shit with them. Sure I know how they changed quickscoping and all of that, but I can't seem to get the jump on anyone unless I'm just holding down the trigger with an auto.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I think he is implying he sucks with everything else but.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I guess I should have rephrased that. It seems anytime I try and use a semi auto gun, (snipers or semi rifles) I can't do shit with them. Sure I know how they changed quickscoping and all of that, but I can't seem to get the jump on anyone unless I'm just holding down the trigger with an auto.

Oh okay I get you.

Yeah full automatics dominate in this game.

Now there are some guns which fire in bursts like the M-16, G11, etc that are still powerful and worthful but in general the best path to success is using a spray gun that is decently accurate and spiting out a shitload of bullets.

That is something worth more addressing in an intelligent manner than the over gimping done to snipers. But less people complain there because a lot of people like to run and gun all the time.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

So you learned to stop being a bitch and accept death? Good.

:lol

 

[commish]

I actually had better success yesterday with the M16's burst than I did with full autos. I seem to just aim better.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Am I the only one using a suppressor on any guns?:lol

I use them on the Famas and, as i mentioned, the SPAS-12 extensively. The first as a concealed assault build and the latter in a concealed defense/hunter role. I don't generally bother with them for the SMGs or other guns as I see them more as being more for direct assault, so I don't mind going "loud" with them. I've considered one for my ACOG M16 sniper build, but then I would have to give up Hardened for Warlord and I'm not sure I want to do that.

 

[bolbronx]

So i just went Prestige. That was stupid.

I'll never get my 2 quick melee-kills again. Pure luck when it happened.

Why oh why did i do that?

 

[Stoney Mason]

I actually had better success yesterday with the M16's burst than I did with full autos. I seem to just aim better.

After initially believing the M16 was gimped after playing a few days, I revise that and think its pretty good as always. You just have to keep some distance.

Although I don't like it with a suppressor where I could get away with that in MW 2. Feels like I have to hit them too many times when its silenced.

 

[aku:jiki]

Not saying you camped and all, but people do

I was in the match and he camped like crazy! :lol

Nah, that was his job in that match though. He was protecting B and cutting off the right hand side of the map, as another teammate of ours (random but had a mic on) was working the left and I was working the middle. It was some of the most intense spawn-trapping I've ever seen, they couldn't even leave the playground area in the very back of their spawn. :lol

Normally I enjoy listening to your rants, but the fact that you managed to post this without a hint of irony is hilarious. Why should he give a shit what you say when you're treating him like shit?

Because he's doing his job and my patronage is paying part of his salary. It's a pretty common rule of business that the customer is always right? Besides, his tone isn't very nice to begin with, and he's the one that initiates all dialogue (as we have no direct channel to him) so if he feels like he's being treated poorly, he's only got himself to blame.

(And before anyone says it; they don't make patches out of the goodness of their hearts. It's promotion for them as developers, which they hope will sell more copies of their next game. So, yes, the patron/provider relationship is still in effect.)

 

[X26]

I actually had better success yesterday with the M16's burst than I did with full autos. I seem to just aim better.

Been using the m16 in a stealth build lately and it's great. Not nearly as dominant as in past games when going loud, but slap a supressor and acog on it and you've got a great gun on maps like havana and wmd

 

[X26]

After initially believing the M16 was gimped after playing a few days, I revise that and think its pretty good as always. You just have to keep some distance.

Although I don't like it with a suppressor where I could get away with that in MW 2. Feels like I have to hit them too many times when its silenced.

seems to be 2 bursts either way for me

 

[Stoney Mason]

seems to be 2 bursts either way for me

Perhaps it's just bad luck or poor aiming on my part or just map design but I found I got more frustrated as people were escaping from me with the silenced M16 at a higher frequency.

 

[zam]

I was in the match and he camped like crazy! :lol

Nah, that was his job in that match though. He was protecting B and cutting off the right hand side of the map, as another teammate of ours (random but had a mic on) was working the left and I was working the middle. It was some of the most intense spawn-trapping I've ever seen, they couldn't even leave the playground area in the very back of their spawn. :lol

Yep, pretty much I wasn't camping in a random spot not helping out the team, I was stopping them from planting, also about half my kills were from all the killstreaks I was calling in. We were also lucky that we finally stopped the randoms on our team from turbo-planting the bombs and ending the match in 2 minutes, as I got 83 kills the match before, but it only went 2 rounds, the second one we managed to stretch it to 3 rounds.

 

[Raiden]

Epic Random Care Package Kill

That is some fucking Final Destination shit right there:lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

That is some fucking Final Destination shit right there:lol

That is pretty awesome. Hadn't seen that one.

:lol

 

[X26]

Yep, pretty much I wasn't camping in a random spot not helping out the team, I was stopping them from planting, also about half my kills were from all the killstreaks I was calling in. We were also lucky that we finally stopped the randoms on our team from turbo-planting the bombs and ending the match in 2 minutes, as I got 83 kills the match before, but it only went 2 rounds, the second one we managed to stretch it to 3 rounds.

griefing is pretty awesome huh bro

 

[Dresden]

griefing is pretty awesome huh bro

didn't you hear, demolition isn't about winning, it's about farming randoms for kills

 

[Anerythristic]

So you learned to stop being a bitch and accept death? Good.

:lol , I was never a bitch. I never used Commando or Danger Close in MW2. I also had Copycat setup as my deathstreak.

 

[.nimrod]

Yep, pretty much I wasn't camping in a random spot not helping out the team, I was stopping them from planting, also about half my kills were from all the killstreaks I was calling in. We were also lucky that we finally stopped the randoms on our team from turbo-planting the bombs and ending the match in 2 minutes, as I got 83 kills the match before, but it only went 2 rounds, the second one we managed to stretch it to 3 rounds.

Ugh, really?
I hate it when people intentionally delay planting the bombs only to get more kills. If your team is better, then just end the match. Spawntrapping the enemy for 2 minutes, then letting them plant 1 bomb only to extend the timer and continue the rape is just griefing.

That's almost like beating up preschool kids.

 

[X26]

didn't you hear, demolition isn't about winning, it's about farming randoms for kills

I really don't get why the game doesn't have an entire merc playlist, helps out all the guys looking to play for fun play without having to deal with parties of douchbags that stretch objective matches out to the max so they can pump up their all important K/D ratios with constant chopper gunners and attack dogs. No parties pretty much eliminates griefing.

 

[Raiden]

Ugh, really?
I hate it when people intentionally delay planting the bombs only to get more kills. If your team is better, then just end the match. Spawntrapping the enemy for 2 minutes, then letting them plant 1 bomb only to extend the timer and continue the rape is just griefing.

That's almost like beating up preschool kids.

Another reason i only play Team Deathmatch. I like the pure and simple task of eliminating the other team, only shit you deal with is your occasional camper, but with RC-XD's and other stuff they can be flushed out easily.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I really don't get why the game doesn't have an entire merc playlist, helps out all the guys looking to play for fun play without having to deal with parties of douchbags that stretch objective matches out to the max so they can pump up their all important K/D ratios with constant chopper gunners and attack dogs. No parties pretty much eliminates griefing.

I love merc tdm. Almost no one uses a mic so I never have to hear anybody.

But yeah. I wouldn't mind more merc playlists. I often like to play by myself and I don't want to play against parties.

But I can't really complain here. This is the most playlists a COD game has had I think if you factor in Wager matches.

 

[X26]

I love merc tdm. Almost no one uses a mic so I never have to hear anybody.

But yeah. I wouldn't mind more merc playlists.

Yep, when I play TDM it's merc 100% of the time. I have no idea why people not in a party play regular tdm

 

[aku:jiki]

didn't you hear, demolition isn't about winning, it's about farming randoms for kills

We read the situation and determined that we could basically win at will, and we did win, so we had the option to either win immediately, or lock them down and score more XP and kills. Why would we ever pick the first option?

Besides, I can't even count the ways the could've picked zam off but just didn't... I have no idea how they were so bad, these guys weren't level 11's either.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yep, when I play TDM it's merc 100% of the time. I have no idea why people not in a party play regular tdm

me neither. I think other people just look at whatever has the highest number and jump in that. But I also always play merc tdm if I'm playing by myself and want to play tdm.