You will continue being disappointed if you don't understand that what matters for most editors and devs is to have something that looks good. So even with 900p instead of 1080p, or 30fps instead of 60fps if the genre of the game doesn't require it. The new ressources (both those of the console and the budget) go elsewhere than in the resolution or the framerate. If you want to decide where you want those ressources to be put, just play on a PC because disappointment awaits you.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
You will continue being disappointed if you don't understand that what matters for most editors and devs is to have something that looks good. So even with 900p instead of 1080p, or 30fps instead of 60fps if the genre of the game doesn't require it. The new ressources (both those of the console and the budget) go elsewhere than in the resolution or the framerate. If you want to decide where you want those ressources to be put, just play on a PC because disappointment awaits you.
love these guys and listen to them all the time but this is the first time i started getting annoyed listening to colin. he came off very strong and surprised he is not able to understand how this could end up being great for sony in the long run and makes perfect business sense. i bought an ipad air 2 last fall knowing full well there are new ipads coming out soon. customers nowadays are educated enough to realize that better models are going to come at a more rapid pace. you don't HAVE to buy it! games are suddenly not going to look like shit on ps4 jeez us at the hyperbole there. just because this hasn't been done before doesn't mean they can't try and give people more options and incentives to upgrade. i have to applaud greg for reigning it back in from time to time.
I'm sure for a lot of developers, that decision actually isn't up to them.
D
Deleted member 74300
Unconfirmed Member
PS32x
Strong opinions with nothing to back them up.
You mean like an iPhone 6, iPhone 6s, or a Galaxy 6, Galaxy 7?
Yes, I agree, they want the 'games as a service' ecosystem like mobile, but they will still have revision numbers to hype 'generations' in tech.
Bingo!
Now if we took the same devs, and sat them down and asked them what would be better. Starting from scratch again, or having the same already familiar SDK environment mature as the market expands? I bet the answers would be different than what people are assuming.
It is the same thing, only difference is the 'naming' of the box, lol.
I completely agree.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
An earlier tweet that he posted caught my attention:
https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/722245710846894080
https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/722245710846894080
Gotta say I agree. It won't be easy no matter they spin it.Colin's Twitter said:
ChaoticBlue
Member
sony had to convince the ps3 was worth $599 at first. it didn't turn out so well.
I'm feeling that way right now, so I wholeheartedly agree. This is going to be a huge challenge for them and if they don't meet it the right way, I might leave the ecosystem entirely and put the money towards my GPU upgrade. And I've been with them since the launch of the PS2.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
"We will continue supporting PS4 customers."
"We will continue to sell PS4 alongside PS4k"
"We here at Sony will continue to give or customers a choice."
SolidSnakex
Member
None of those are going to make people that just bought PS4's feel like they didn't get the short end of the stick.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This statement is such an exaggeration. As long as your PS4 still works and can play games well for the foreseeable future it's not a big deal.
But.. thats exactly what a PS5 SHOULD be...
Alpha Phoenix
Member
Yeah, typical PR bull that served them right back in 2006 (and more recently Microsoft in 2013).
E3 is going to be *very* interesting this year.
That's pretty silly. Not sure why it would matter to most of these people that a premium, higher priced model is being released later into the generation that would require a further investment.
It's in no way a middle finger to anyone, so anyone taking it that way is entirely on them. It's just a premium product release, no more, no less. Making any kind of emotional attachment to the concept is silly.
Exactly.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I mean that's nothing. PS3's PR in the face of backlash was "Get a second job."
... (sigh)
No, this is incorrect. If you're going to comment on things, at least quote it accurately.
Kutaragi's quote was that they "Wanted people to be so passionate and excited about the PS3 that they would get a second job to afford one."
Not "Get a second job." And it had nothing to do with backlash. Yes, the PS3 was stupidly expensive at the time, but it was also being sold at a tremendous loss as well, which was another aspect of last gen that isn't being commented on.
Zoetis has already made comments in threads that Sony is keenly aware of the concerns regarding how this hardware could be perceived and is not going to split the base, so I really think the overreactions are getting old.
NullPointer
Member
If what we know it true, he's absolutely right.
Am very curious to see how Sony messages this.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
That's how a lot of people interpreted it back in the day though. But seriously you're right this is not a big deal at all and the overreaction to it is getting annoying.
SolidSnakex
Member
We're going to see in a few months time if Sony announces it at E3. I think it's going to be a much bigger deal than some are giving it credit for. Telling people that just spent $350 on a new console that said console is now outdated because of an upgraded model isn't going to sit well with some. And no, a direct sequel to a console isn't comparable to this iterative model. There's an expectation for those while there isn't for this iterative model.
Sony benefited a lot this gen by playing on the good will of gamers. They were very straight forward. "Hey, here's one console and a simple controller. No motion controls, no frills." So they're playing a dangerous game with this model. Because pretty much everywhere you go that has discussions about this sees very negative opinions on it. This is by no means an easy sale.
How is it pr bull when it's probably going to be 100% true?
Hexa
Member
I think the best option would be to just shrug it off during the conference and let things go how they go, and in interviews just stick to the facts that were leaked. The mainstream is likely to get pissed if they push it too hard and probably wouldn't buy it for the graphics improvements alone. The hard core will be reading forums like this and know exactly what it includes so they don't need to be sold on it. They just need more info. So don't even try to push it as a tremendous improvement beyond the Ultra-HD functionality. So something like:
"We're pleased to announce the PS4 Slim, featuring a smaller casing and lower power usage and temperature. It was have two SKUs, the PS4 Slim Standard, for the low price of $300, which will feature all the functionality of the standard PS4. In addition we're also pleased to announce the PS4 Slim Premium, designed to be forward thinking for 4K consumers in mind. It will have the enhanced capabilities of an Ultra-HD blu-ray player, Ultra-HD streaming, as well improvements in resolution and upscaling to Ultra HD as well as graphical enhancements to take advantage of this resolution bump for games released after this October. Both will be available this holiday season. In addition the pre-existing non-slim SKUs are cut to $300 immediately. Thank you and have a wonderful E3."
"We're pleased to announce the PS4 Slim, featuring a smaller casing and lower power usage and temperature. It was have two SKUs, the PS4 Slim Standard, for the low price of $300, which will feature all the functionality of the standard PS4. In addition we're also pleased to announce the PS4 Slim Premium, designed to be forward thinking for 4K consumers in mind. It will have the enhanced capabilities of an Ultra-HD blu-ray player, Ultra-HD streaming, as well improvements in resolution and upscaling to Ultra HD as well as graphical enhancements to take advantage of this resolution bump for games released after this October. Both will be available this holiday season. In addition the pre-existing non-slim SKUs are cut to $300 immediately. Thank you and have a wonderful E3."
If you look at Colin's twitter there, most of the responses are pretty okay with it. There's a few upset folks, but most of the responses seem to be largely "Well, it seems like it should be okay" Or "I don't see what the big deal is?" kind of replies.
Colin being on the side of the consumer totally has my respect, but I just don't think he's on the right page on this one. Being a more unfamiliar aspect for console gaming at large doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad or a good thing, it's just different. And as long as it doesn't actively fuck people over, it's just going to be kind of there as another option.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
Whether or not it's true is inconsequential. The customers will see this whole thing from a different perspective, and I highly doubt the majority will be happy.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
That and when Sony starts to shill for the PS5 I'm gonna be like why when I can wait for the superior PS5.5 and not deal with generally weak launch lineups. I mean greatness awaits.
Mediking
Member
I'm just waiting for the inevitable superiority comments from PS4K owners when they get their hands on it. It's coming. I just know it.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Really? I look forward to my free upgrade with my renewal of PS+ as part of the service then.
It is not hardware as a service and It's not the same so stop it.
And before you say it, I will get a PS4K if it's worth it but let's not try and sugar coat it as being the same as a network service with a hardware that updates as part of it because it's not.
It's a shorter life cycle to get us to spend £400 every 2 years instead of 5-6 years nothing more.
You getting one? cool I might too but lets not BS ourselves here.
QUOTE=Vanillalite;201510062]That and when Sony starts to shill for the PS5 I'm gonna be like why when I can wait for the superior PS5.5 and not deal with generally weak launch lineups. I mean greatness awaits.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that will happen, I've already decided mobile phones have declined in advancements enough for me not to upgrade, he'll my new phone is barely any different from my one 2 years ago.
Same thing will happen here once people clock on.
Nah the customer will see it just like every other piece of tech one is better for a higher price.
WoolyNinja
Member
I don't understand the complaint from the dev side - they've been creating their games to scale for different hardware on pc for a looooong time.
This is basically giving PS4 users an option similar to PC gaming... do you want a 970 or do you want to spend some more and grab the 980 type of a thing. If you're cool with the lower specs go ahead and buy a normal PS4 for $300 otherwise spend the extra hundred (or whatever) and get the higher spec hardware.
This is basically giving PS4 users an option similar to PC gaming... do you want a 970 or do you want to spend some more and grab the 980 type of a thing. If you're cool with the lower specs go ahead and buy a normal PS4 for $300 otherwise spend the extra hundred (or whatever) and get the higher spec hardware.
Glorified G
Member
When Sony started to shill for the PS4 why not wait until PS5 came out and you would had access to a dirt cheap PS4 library along with a much more affordable console. I mean greatness awaits.
prag16
Banned
Maybe it makes business sense for Sony. But as many have argued here and in other topics, this may not be "good" for devs, or for consumers. It may only (potentially) be good for Sony because it means they get to keep selling a $400 SKU for much deeper into the generation than they would have been able to otherwise. (The jury's obviously out on how this will affect early PS5 sales, now that we know a PS5.5 may be in the cards 2-3 years after...)
As many have said, nobody asked for this (at least seemingly very few).
I'm sorry, but that's a real dumb tweet. Early adopters of anything know what they're getting into. Sometimes it bites them in the ass (see: XB1 price slash with tons of bundled games within the first year). Most of the time it's a bad idea.
The fact that he thinks a three year timeframe merits "early adopter" status is kind of hilarious.
Given this entire generation has been nothing but "underpowered machine" rhetoric that is plainly untrue.
Karak
Member
Interesting discussion there. My developer podcast was probably the saddest I have ever seen it yesterday. I felt like I was the one who was discussing possible plans and such and the devs were the ones down to a woman who were completely against it. So much ill will from the dev community that I work with.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
From the developer's perspective, I would say the issue basically boils down to an undesirable increase in cost (not just in money, mind you). I would imagine this is going to be especially hard for smaller studios who have limited resources and budgets.
Don't quote me, though. I'm no game developer, but I understand completely why a lot of them aren't keen on developing for the PS4.5.
prag16
Banned
Sure, they're underpowered, and many have complained about that.
But prior to all these leaks and reports, who was actually asking for a mid-gen stop gap semi-upgrade console? Were you?
SolidSnakex
Member
How did early adopters know that there would be an iterative PS4 model when no such thing has happened before?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Well unless Sony is gonna charge more for NEO Compatible games Devs are just getting more work put on them with no returns.
I wasn't, but given how technology is advancing and learning how this is going to work, I understand it and even look forward to it.
No one was asking for it because it's never been done before in this space.
We're talking about $400 three years ago. Now, for the person who bought a PS4 a month ago, I totally get it. But c'mon.
My anectodal interactions with ps4 customers about this news tells me it is largely going to be an indifferent reaction in the real world from folks who already own ps4s (it'd be different if ps4neo exclusive games started getting made), a small portion being happy that an upgraded version is releasing and will trade in/sell their current ps4 to get the new one. and a negative reaction from a small vocal minority online.
And also, the folks who haven't gotten a ps4 yet but were planning to get one are going to be happy as an even better version of the console they wanted to get is on the market, or they'll be happy that a regular ps4 has dropped in price and they can afford it now. Other folks will simply be interested in it for the uhd.4k functionality and "oh look a bonus, ps4 games are playable on this, all for the same price as other standalone players" and others who weren't planning on buying it will still be indifferent.
So all in all, existing userbase: largely indifferent, a bit happy, a bit negative. new potential customers: happy, interested, and indifferent.
All in all, the general attitude will lean towards "happy" with this due to new customers in the mix. Options are welcome.
Nobody just like nobody knew the Xbox was getting multiple price drops or dropping Kinect.
prag16
Banned
That's what I said. Glad you agree.
You can't really equate this to the video card or cell phone market as some are doing. Totally different markets, business models, audiences, etc etc etc.
Jacksinthe
Banned
"Don't buy the new iPhone because Apple will release another, probably better versions next year. Early adopters beware!"
- Said noone ever
Why is the game industry special in this regard? Its a piece of tech that's better than its predecessor.
The sky won't fall no matter how hard he or anyone else tries to bang that drum. Peeps be overreacting like crazy. PS4 has been out for years. It's not in early adoption anymore. Had this been year one? Sure. But that boat fucking sailed.
I never did and never intend to. Yearly upgrades are a disaster in the making. Three year cycles? I think it could definitely work.
SolidSnakex
Member
That's what i'm getting at. The PS4 is actually selling more this year than it did last year during the same time period. How are those people not supposed to feel burned on some level when they find out that had they held out they could've got the upgraded model?
Price drops happen all the time. You know that it could come out of nowhere. That's not comparable to an iterative model happening because there's no precedence for that.
Hawk269
Member
How is that any different from any other consumer device? I know in gaming for consoles it has never been done, but I don't see how consumers that paid for something and it does what they paid for and it will continue to do so when a newer version comes out would be that upset. The PS4 will continue to work, it is not going to magically stop working because of a newer version.
This argument has been brought up a number of times. 10-12 years ago, I think this would of been something more of a challenge, but in this day and age where consumers are use to yearly refreshes for many consumer electronics, I don't see people, especially the general consumer to be upset about this. Yes, the folks that read and post in this forum are the hardcore and more vocal, but I doubt the every day consumer is going to upset about it.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=831034
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1179989&page=1
That just two, there is more.
People was asking, shame Sony didn't read the replies and ignored what people really was asking for.
The second thread is funny reading it now.
prag16
Banned
People have had certain expectations with regard to game consoles, and this has held for decades. Many will understandably view this as a kind of a bait and switch.
In reality though there are and will be vocal minorities on both sides; one side celebrating and cheering Sony on, the other extremely butthurt that their ogPS4 is now "obsolete".
Personally I'm pretty indifferent. I have a PS4 for a handful of exclusives. They'll all be playable on the original PS4. So even though I only bought it two months ago, whatever, it is what it is. I have my PC for teh grafix, and feeling good about being closer to the cutting edge. This will only become an issue if neo-exclusive games start surfacing at some point.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
If you were told at E3 2013 that 3 years after launch they'll release an upgraded PS4, would you have waited and played PS3 games this whole time?