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College Republicans Place Red Stars on Professors' Doors

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Santa Rosa Junior College's oak-studded campus is aflame with controversy triggered by the anonymous posting of red stars and a reference to communist indoctrination on 10 faculty office doors.

Instructors quickly saw the action as a threat to academic freedom, but the student who claimed credit for the protest said it was about left-leaning bias in the lecture hall.

The stars, which unnerved some instructors, were accompanied by a copy of a state Education Code section prohibiting the teaching of communism with the "intent to indoctrinate" students.

The code's first sentence says: "No teacher giving instruction in any school ... shall advocate or teach communism with the intent to indoctrinate or to inculcate in the mind of any pupil a preference for communism."

"You can't teach social theory without teaching Marxism," Freund said. In all his lectures, Freund said he covers "the best argument for and against" any philosophy.

Marco Giordano, an English instructor, called the code section "antithetical to academic freedom."

"The accusation of teaching communism in the classroom is laughable," Giordano said, noting communism is not illegal and the U.S. Constitution is "indifferent" to both communism and capitalism.

The German Nazis weren't too friendly with the Communists or Jews either. [sarcasm]Can't wait to wear my red star everywhere I go![/sarcasm]
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/NEWS/503020303/1033/NEWS01
 

Eric-GCA

Banned
Most of my teacher's were openly communists, so I'd assume that they'd wear the red star as a badge of honor.
 
Boogie said:
Damn, Godwin's law in the first post of the thread. :p

No no, thats an effective use of comparing to Nazis. Believe it or not, that has historical basis rather then just blatantly calling somebody a Nazi, which can be argued that Godwin's Law still hasn't been enforced. You however, already lost by whipping the law out...
 
Boogie said:
No, comparing retarded students posting flyers to Nazis is poor form.
Red stars are terribly similar to yellow stars. It's a way to separate a segment of a population in a negative manner.
 
belgurdo said:
Everyone in this topic=fail. Aren't we supposed to be talking about the stupidity of what the CRs did?

But thats a given. All these Young Conservative groups are the same, they are all like little Ann Coulters, taking everything to the extreme, and act like dicks.
 

peedi

Banned
If the right doesn't want the supposed inculcation of communism in academia's halls, what would they prefer be taught in its place? Are they suggesting that America's youths are too naive and impressionable to filter the fact from fiction, the distortions from the truth, the right from the wrong? Is it there contention, then, that America's youths are fundamentally stupid? That would appear to be the implication of such appeals, would it not?
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Red stars are terribly similar to yellow stars. It's a way to separate a segment of a population in a negative manner.

Except that the red stars have FUCKING NOTHING TO DO with the star of David that Jews were forced to wear during the Third Reich.

A Red star is a communist symbol. So, if these retarded students have a beef with their professors over the content of their lectures, it's not unexpected that they'd attach a communist symbol to their flyer, if only for inflammatory purposes.

Regardless, I maintain that it was, in fact, a FUCKING RETARDED analogy, but I'm not going to waste my time detailing why. So continue on with the standard REPUBLICANS=NAZIS circle jerk.
 

Matlock

Banned
Boogie said:
No, comparing retarded students posting flyers to Nazis is poor form.

Read up on Godwin's law, and then you'll really understand.

Hammy loses his side of the argument for citing nazis, you lose your side for citing Godwin's Law explicitly.
 
Boogie said:
Except that the red stars have FUCKING NOTHING TO DO with the star of David that Jews were forced to wear during the Third Reich.
I didn't intend to say that the two were related. It would be interesting if someone could find evidence that they were directly inspired by the Nazis. Nevertheless, I would argue that the two acts are analogous.
 

Boogie

Member
Matlock said:
Read up on Godwin's law, and then you'll really understand.

Hammy loses his side of the argument for citing nazis, you lose your side for citing Godwin's Law explicitly.

Yeah, but I don't give a damn about that part of the law. I'll cite it all I want, simply because I'm so fucking tired of all the Nazi analogies.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
I didn't intend to say that the two were related. It would be interesting if someone could find evidence that they were directly inspired by the Nazis. Nevertheless, I would argue that the two acts are analogous.

You said they were similar. I said why they weren't.
 
Tsk... They really should have known better. I mean, everyone knows that left-leaning, liberal activist college students are the only ones allowed to get away with this sort of thing.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The last paragraph of the flyer destroys any point the students might have had. Maybe the teachers are advocating in some ways what could be considered communist principles, but it's ridiculous to say that they're teaching the unconstitutional usurping of the government by force. When was that code made anyway, durring World War II?
 

peedi

Banned
They didn't have any point. If you willfully digest everything you're taught, without first scrutinizing it, you're an idiot.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
Tsk... They really should have known better. I mean, everyone knows that left-leaning, liberal activist college students are the only ones allowed to get away with this sort of thing.
Links?

boogie said:
A Red star is a communist symbol. So, if these retarded students have a beef with their professors over the content of their lectures, it's not unexpected that they'd attach a communist symbol to their flyer, if only for inflammatory purposes.
This is why it's not analogous? Are you essentially saying that the CR put the star in just for "inflammatory purposes" and not as a symbol of a harmful force or evil?

BTW, if any Communists are offended by my comments, I apologize in advance.
 

ge-man

Member
peedi said:
If the right doesn't want the supposed inculcation of communism in academia's halls, what would they prefer be taught in its place? Are they suggesting that America's youths are too naive and impressionable to filter the fact from fiction, the distortions from the truth, the right from the wrong? Is it there contention, then, that America's youths are fundamentally stupid? That would appear to be the implication of such appeals, would it not?

Part of it has to do with that assumption. But tet bias claim is red herring, this is more about moving this traditionally progressive part of our culture towards right while at the same time stifling debate.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Links?


This is why it's not analogous? Are you essentially saying that the CR put the star in just for "inflammatory purposes" and not as a symbol of a harmful force or evil?

BTW, if any Communists are offended by my comments, I apologize in advance.

I'm saying it has nothing to do with the star of David. Obviously, if these students view communism as evil, then any symbol of communism to them would be a symbol of evil.

But that does not mean that its use here has ANYTHING to do with the Nazis' use of the star of David. There's no connection, but you're trying to make one anyway just so that you can squeeze in any mention of the Nazis that you can.
 

Matlock

Banned
Boogie said:
Yeah, but I don't give a damn about that part of the law. I'll cite it all I want, simply because I'm so fucking tired of all the Nazi analogies.

Stop being a Nazi Nazi!
 
Boogie said:
I'm saying it has nothing to do with the star of David. Obviously, if these students view communism as evil, then any symbol of communism to them would be a symbol of evil.

But that does not mean that its use here has ANYTHING to do with the Nazis' use of the star of David. There's no connection, but you're trying to make one anyway just so that you can squeeze in any mention of the Nazis that you can.
Alright, then tell me why it does not have anything to do with the Nazis' use of the star of David. Or start from my arguments and tell me where they need improvement.
 

peedi

Banned
ge-man said:
Part of it has to do with that assumption. But tet bias claim is red herring, this is more about moving this traditionally progressive part of our culture towards right while at the same time stifling debate.

Oh, you're absolutely right. It's the same strategy they successfully employed in their assault on mainstream media. Repeated charges of "liberal bias," yet every major news outlet slants far to the right, from CNN to FOX. The strategy of the right is so blatant, yet the architects of progressive action are oblivious to it.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Alright, then tell me why it does not have anything to do with the Nazis' use of the star of David. Or start from my arguments and tell me where they need improvement.

Your argument needs more than "red stars are very similar to yellow stars"
 
Boogie said:
Your argument needs more than "red stars are very similar to yellow stars"
Then you didn't get my argument. I'm talking about the usage of the stars and the intention behind it. Both stars help to segregate out people in a negative way on the basis of their beliefs, real or not.
 

ge-man

Member
peedi said:
Oh, you're absolutely right. It's the same strategy they successfully employed in their assault on mainstream media. Repeated charges of "liberal bias," yet every major news outlet slants far to the right, from CNN to FOX. The strategy of the right is so blatant, yet the architects of progressive action are oblivious to it.

Agreed. I was just going to say before your post that I think this is going to be one of the next battle grounds. I won't be surprised in the next couple of years that we will see similar actions happening at big name schools that have been labeled as liberal havens in the past. We're seeing a trickle now.
 

AntoneM

Member
Not long ago universities used to be a place where one could freely exchange beliefs and ideas, in fact it was about 2 days ago.
 

peedi

Banned
It's almost as if Democrats are conspiring with Republicans. They lack the vigor of past. Instead, they've allowed a fascist to become President, our congress overrun with moral terrorists, and our foreign policy made beholden to military industrial interests. Our mainstream media is nothing more than propaganda. That so-called "liberal" media that NEVER calls Bush on his mendacious exercises in crypto-fascism. Our country is being taken over, and the Dems are ever impotent.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Then you didn't get my argument. I'm talking about the usage of the stars and the intention behind it. Both stars help to segregate out people in a negative way on the basis of their beliefs, real or not.

What argument? Yes, it's a negative symbol. These students don't like communists, so obviously they are going to use communist symbols in a negative way. So what? This is not an official policy by a university. It's just criticism of professors by a group of students. Which they are perfectly allowed to do. And the university is allowed to ignore them because they are a bunch of douches. What is your point?

The use of a negative symbol isn't an exclusively Nazi tactic.
 
Boogie said:
What argument?
Read my previous post

Yes, it's a negative symbol. These students don't like communists, so obviously they are going to use communist symbols in a negative way. So what?
So... they use it in a negative way to separate people. Harmful professors and OK professors. Subhumans and humans.

What is your point?
Reread my previous post.

The use of a negative symbol isn't an exclusively Nazi tactic.
I never said it was.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
So... they use it in a negative way to separate people. Harmful professors and OK professors. Subhumans and humans.

There is a star on a piece of paper. The piece of paper is about communism. Therefore, they use a communist symbol.

There is no "separation" occuring here other than in the students' minds.

The Nazi use of symbols was not simply to separate people in the Nazis' minds, but in EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE.

These students are just saying that they hate communism, and don't want it promoted. That is, they disagree with certain professors' opinions. WHICH THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO.

If I make the distinction in my mind between TA's that can speak English and those who don't, with the former being "OK", and the latter being "Useless", am I being a Nazi?
 
Boogie said:
There is no "separation" occuring here other than in the students' minds.
Professors with stars and those without.
The Nazi use of symbols was not simply to separate people in the Nazis' minds, but in EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE.
I'm talking about the academic realm here, and that's one reason why it's an analogy.
These students are just saying that they hate communism, and don't want it promoted. That is, they disagree with certain professors' opinions. WHICH THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO.
Your point?
If I make the distinction in my mind between TA's that can speak English and those who don't, with the former being "OK", and the latter being "Useless", am I being a Nazi?
No, but I never said that the kids were Nazis.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Morons said:
For the purposes of this section, communism is a political theory that the presently existing form of government of the United States or of this state should be changed, by force, violence, or other unconstitutional means to a totalitarian dictatorship which is based on the principles of communism as expounded by Marx, Lenin, and Stalin

Perhaps these fuckwits could benefit from a little communist inculcation. You know, just enough for them to learn what the word actually means, perhaps.
 

Boogie

Member
Actually, you know what, forget it.

I'll concede that "they use symbols in a negative way to separate people".

So why did this have to be compared to the Nazis?

Just because the Nazi regime did something, on such a broad, vague, and useless level such as "separating people", doesn't mean it's worth making a hateful, fearmongering Nazi comparison.

Nazis used propaganda..... OMG THE ALLIES WERE ACTING LIKE NAZIS DURING WWII BY USING PROPAGANDA!!!!ONEONE

The Nazis achieved near-full employment in Germany in the late 30s....OMG, AMERICA IS ACTING LIKE THE NAZIS IN TRYING TO INCREASE ITS EMPLOYMENT LEVELS!!!!!!

The Nazis hated communism....... OMG, AMERICA WAS FIGHTING AGAINST COMMUNISM DURING THE COLD WAR!!! THEY WERE JUST LIKE THE NAZIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Professors with stars and those without.

Umm, I don't think so, unless the article's terminology is confusing me. It says that the letter was posted outside "10 faculty office doors". Now, I took that to mean general faculty offices in general, not the offices of specific professors, and reading the article, that's still what I feel.

If the opposite is true, you might have more of a case.

But then there's still the words of the person responsible: "The red stars were not intended as a personal attack on individual instructors, she said. "I regret that it was taken that way.""

But she's probably just covering her own ass, right? :p


No, but I never said that the kids were Nazis.

Of course not, you just said they were acting LIKE Nazis. :rolleyes.
 
Boogie said:
So why did this have to be compared to the Nazis?
Because the word Nazi carries heavy emotional connotations.

Just because the Nazi regime did something, on such a broad, vague, and useless level such as "separating people", doesn't mean it's worth making a hateful, fearmongering Nazi comparison.
I was trying to be half funny (note the sarcasm tags). Obviously that attempt failed.
Nazis used propaganda..... OMG THE ALLIES WERE ACTING LIKE NAZIS DURING WWII BY USING PROPAGANDA!!!!ONEONE

The Nazis achieved near-full employment in Germany in the late 30s....OMG, AMERICA IS ACTING LIKE THE NAZIS IN TRYING TO INCREASE ITS EMPLOYMENT LEVELS!!!!!!

The Nazis hated communism....... OMG, AMERICA WAS FIGHTING AGAINST COMMUNISM DURING THE COLD WAR!!! THEY WERE JUST LIKE THE NAZIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please note that I don't use caps lock every often.

Of course not, you just said they were acting LIKE Nazis. :rolleyes.
Finally you are beginning to understand.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Because the word Nazi carries heavy emotional connotations.

No-FUCKING-kidding. That's exactly why I'm objecting to it, you sensationalizing douche.


Please note that I don't use caps lock every often.

PLEASE NOTE THAT I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.


Finally you are beginning to understand.

Yep, I understand that you are yet another one of the idiots who likes to compare a pretty crappy leader to THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
 
Boogie said:
No-FUCKING-kidding. That's exactly why I'm objecting to it, you sensationalizing douche.
However, earlier in the thread, you seemed to object because my "argument needs more than 'red stars are very similar to yellow stars'". Now you say that you don't agree with my word choice because the word is strong.

PLEASE NOTE THAT I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.
So you think that I misrepresent the CR by comparing them to Nazis is wrong, but you misrepresenting my statements is OK? Understood.

Yep, I understand that you are yet another one of the idiots who likes to compare a pretty crappy leader to THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
You're doing it again. *sigh* Name me one instance where I compared "a pretty crappy leader" to "THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD". This is assuming that:
"THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD"=Hitler
"a pretty crappy leader"=the club president
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
However, earlier in the thread, you seemed to object because my "argument needs more than 'red stars are very similar to yellow stars'". Now you say that you don't agree with my word choice because the word is strong.

Again, no, I disagreed for both of those reasons. Your word choice isn't "strong". It's retarded and inflammatory. You are likening the actions of a student who posted a piece of paper to a regime which KILLED 6 MILLION JEWS. Don't you see how fucking absurd that is?

So you think that I misrepresent the CR by comparing them to Nazis is wrong, but you misrepresenting my statements is OK? Understood.

I wasn't misrepresenting the statements you made. I was trying to demonstrate how absurd your line of reasoning was by taking it to the extreme.


You're doing it again. *sigh* Name me one instance where I compared "a pretty crappy leader" to "THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD". This is assuming that:
"THE WORST FUCKING PSYCOPATH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD"=Hitler
"a pretty crappy leader"=the club president

No, "a pretty crappy leader"= Bush
 
Boogie said:
Again, no, I disagreed for both of those reasons. Your word choice isn't "strong". It's retarded and inflammatory. You are likening the actions of a student who posted a piece of paper to a regime which KILLED 6 MILLION JEWS. Don't you see how fucking absurd that is?
Considering how the yellow star was used years before the concentration camps went into full swing, no. The analogy ends with the yellow star and does not extend to killings. Of course, if there is an academic purge someday, then I'll extend the analogy.

I wasn't misrepresenting the statements you made. I was trying to demonstrate how absurd your line of reasoning was by taking it to the extreme.
How is that different from taking the Nazis' actions and carrying it to an "extreme" in the other way?

No, "a pretty crappy leader"= Bush
Then name that instance.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
Considering how the yellow star was used years before the concentration camps went into full swing, no. The analogy ends with the yellow star and does not extend to killings. Of course, if there is an academic purge someday, then I'll extend the analogy.

We've been over that already. Yellow star=red star is simply a ridiculous statement.


How is that different from taking the Nazis' actions and carrying it to an "extreme" in the other way?

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

But hey, maybe there isn't a difference. If the "absurdity" of my statements makes you realise how absurd your Nazi comparison was, I'm fine with that :) :p




Then name that instance.

If you haven't made such a comparison, then fine. But you are making Nazi comparisons, and too many people on here have made the BUSH = HITLER comparison for me to keep track of them all.
 
Boogie said:
We've been over that already. Yellow star=red star is simply a ridiculous statement.
I never said that yellow star=red star; the word I used was "analogous".

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

But hey, maybe there isn't a difference. If the "absurdity" of my statements makes you realise how absurd your Nazi comparison was, I'm fine with that :) :p
Then further clarification: The Nazis did what the CR did, but to an extreme.
If you haven't made such a comparison, then fine. But you are making Nazi comparisons, and too many people on here have made the BUSH = HITLER comparison for me to keep track of them all.
If you can't keep track of them all, then you shouldn't bring it up.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
I never said that yellow star=red star; the word I used was "analogous".

Fine. "Red stars are terribly similar to yellow stars" = simply ridiculous "argument"


Then further clarification: The Nazis did what the CR did, but to an extreme.

Uh, again, then why bring up the Nazis? Back to my "extreme" arguments:

The Nazis did what America did in opposing communism, but TO THE EXTREME!
The Nazis did what the Allies did in using propaganda, but TO THE EXTREME!


If you can't keep track of them all, then you shouldn't bring it up.

Look,you're making Nazi analogies. It's not that big of a stretch on GAF to make the jump to likening Bush to Hitler. Again, if you didn't, fine, but I'm not going to apologize for such a mistake since you are so freely tossing around Nazi comparisons.
 

fart

Savant
oh for the love of god boogie, IT'S AN ANALOGY. it's not hammy's faults that these elementary school literary concepts are clearly too advanced for you.
 
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