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[Slayven]

thats the problem a lot of people that want to get into comics have unfortunately. and unlike a good portion of us who would grab comics that had cool looking covers, or characters that we liked on them, some people feel intimidated by missing an issue as though they are missing out on something huge, so they dont bother. in that way, i am glad for the digital medium to exist, since it would help some people overcome this issue.

Yeah new people can be ocd about dropping in.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

If the new reader is an adult I expect them to either do basic research or just pick up book 1/issue 1 and see if they like where it's going and then they can decide if they want to continue with the series.

If the new reader is a child...the kid is just gonna pick up whatever looks cool to look at the pictures and the action they aren't going to obsess over minute continuity details.

Let me tell you something, when I got into comics back in the 90s they were doing story arcs and the continuity was convoluted back then I didn't give a shit I just picked up whatever had cool covers at the supermarket. Here are some of the books I remember picking up:

[img,]http://images.stampwants.com/bg4yz.img[/img]
[img,]http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/comic-covers/Post-Crisis-Covers/Superman-1992/sup070s.jpg[/img]
[img,]http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnk38udy8j1qg20vxo1_500.jpg[/img]

Oh noess the continuity! I still too this day have not hunt down the previous issues in any of those series and was able to figure out roughly what was going on and over time learned about these characters and became fans of them. My parents spent about $10 and I became an avid DC fan for life. Thats all it took. But I guess your implying that 80s/90s kids are somehow superior to the people of today who lack the mental capacity to just pick up whatever looks cool.

I don't understand why you are getting hung up on "where to start" or the price when I think both DC and Marvel have done an outstanding job of making it clear with the help of bookstores like Amazon, barnes & nobel, borders, etc. where to start or what the best stuff is. This is even assuming you somehow have no access to the internet

As soon as you have to research a comic it's failed. Comics were meant to be cheap disposable entertainment that you pick up off the newsstand when you want a quick entertainment fix. The thought process of buying a comic should be "Batman fighting Two-Face? Cool, I'll buy this". They are meant to be impulse buys with no forethought required.

I started reading comics in the 90s too. I also stopped reading comics in the 90s along with millions of other people. They got to the point where they were so convoluted that it wasn't worth it anymore, and they've remained that way.

 

[Anticitizen One]

As soon as you have to research a comic it's failed. Comics were meant to be cheap disposable entertainment that you pick up off the newsstand when you want a quick entertainment fix. The thought process of buying a comic should be "Batman fighting Two-Face? Cool, I'll buy this". They are meant to be impulse buys with no forethought required.

I started reading comics in the 90s too. I also stopped reading comics in the 90s along with millions of other people. They got to the point where they were so convoluted that it wasn't worth it anymore, and they've remained that way.

Uh you can do that now. You can pick up any New 52 book on the stands and start enjoying it if it looks cool you. There is no law or requirement that you need to read the previous 5 issues or do any kind of research. Movies and game story lines are just as convoluted no one is saying to buy all the Halo or Call of Duty games to understand the story or that you must buy every Star Wars or Indiana Jones or James Bond film to know whats going on. You can do that with everything then.

I don't understand what else you could want. Stand alone stories like Paul Dini's Batman run? They have plenty of those (Paul Dini's Detective Comics run, Men at War, All-Star Western, etc) If you really don't have an interest in following the story you shouldn't read them then. Obviously plenty of people do and thats why there made.

 

[Parallax]

Uh you can do that now. You can pick up any New 52 book on the stands and start enjoying it if it looks cool you. There is no law or requirement that you need to read the previous 5 issues.

I don't understand what else you could want. Stand alone stories like Paul Dini's Batman run? They have plenty of those (Paul Dini's Detective Comics run, Men at War, All-Star Western, etc) If you really don't have an interest in following the story you shouldn't read them then. Obviously plenty of people do and thats why there made.

we know that. the common person that wants to get into comics arent going to be that open though.

 

[Dan]

Scott Snyder will single-handidly save comics. He is currently writing 4 books at once (Swamp Thing, Batman, Severed, and American Vampire) all of which are awesome and already has a sizable list of paperback collections to check out (The Black Mirror, American Vampire volumes 1 &2). He will be heading up DC's big Batman saga this year (Court of Owls) and he has the backing and support of one of literatures most respected writers (Stephen King).

Not bad for a guy who just entered comics in late 2010.

It may or may not mean anything, but he said on Twitter sometime within the last day that he was "working on" being able to collaborate with Jock again.

I saw the Fantastic Four Season One hardcover in Barnes and Noble today...25 bucks for a 136 page graphic novel! I don't think that's the answer.

$16 on Amazon. Online buying is the shit. It's cheap due to wholesale purchasing power, selection is far less an issue, and everything is easy to find.

Websites and apps just have to figure out a way to better mimic the browsing experience. That'll be able to help a lot.

 

[Anticitizen One]

we know that. the common person that wants to get into comics arent going to be that open though.

Then all I can say is screw them and focus on the kids again. Just pump these new 52 comics out and all over the place from online to supermarkets and let the kids select whatever looks cool. Leave the common person either A) do the 2 seconds of look up B) go to a library or bookstore and pick out what looks cool or C)pick up the #1 issue or origin book and see if they like that. If they are unwilling to do any of those 3 things then they aren't serious about getting into comics. It's like trying to convince a tea party or republican member to vote Obama.

All I know is DC and Marvel have done outstanding jobs in the past few years making it clear to regular joes what to pick up. If they are so dumb that they can't understand they can't be helped.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Uh you can do that now. You can pick up any New 52 book on the stands and start enjoying it if it looks cool you. There is no law or requirement that you need to read the previous 5 issues or do any kind of research.

Right, but you have to read every issue to know what's going on. You can't read Batman 1 and then skip to 4 and then read 6 and get a complete story. Comic books have this reputation which is why people have to worry about "jumping on points" when they want to get into comics.

Movies and game story lines are just as convoluted no one is saying to buy all the Halo or Call of Duty games to understand the story or that you must buy every Star Wars or Indiana Jones or James Bond film to know whats going on. You can do that with everything then.

Games are far different from comics, they're much bigger investments of time and money. It isn't even remotely the same thing. Movies on the other hand are similar and do a much better job than comics. Indiana Jones and James Bond movies exist essentially independent of each other and every Star Wars movie tells a complete story that fits in to a larger story.

I don't understand what else you could want. Stand alone stories like Paul Dini's Batman run? They have plenty of those (Paul Dini's Detective Comics run, Men at War, All-Star Western, etc) If you really don't have an interest in following the story you shouldn't read them then. Obviously plenty of people do and thats why there made.

I'm not saying every comic should be a one shot, I'm saying that every comic should attempt to tell a complete story so that if you're just reading that one issue you don't need any background information. Chris Claremont did it pretty well, he usually had 10 things going on at once but you could still pick up any individual issue and not feel left out (most of the time). Stan Lee and Jack Kirby did it well too. It's become a lost art over the last 10 years or so though.

 

[Anticitizen One]

y

I'm not saying every comic should be a one shot, I'm saying that every comic should attempt to tell a complete story so that if you're just reading that one issue you don't need any background information. Chris Claremont did it pretty well, he usually had 10 things going on at once but you could still pick up any individual issue and not feel left out (most of the time). Stan Lee and Jack Kirby did it well too. It's become a lost art over the last 10 years or so though.

You know you can do that easily with at least half of the new 52 books. Scott Lobdell even said he made his books (red hood, teen titans, superbly) so you can read each issue independently. Even sighting Chris Claremont as an influence. Action Comics is pretty stand alone as well (other than the 2 parter) and so are Men of War, All-Star Western, etc. etc. I think anything outside of Geoff Johns and Brian Azzerello can be read out of order. Comics are no different than TV shows and novel series in that regard and people have zero problem with those.

It still sounds to me like OGN's are the way to go. Which would make them very similar to movies are already being attempted now to excellent results.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I don't know the future of comic books. I know $3-4 dollar 5-minute long puzzle pieces that we have now aint gonna cut it for too much longer.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

y

You know you can do that easily with at least half of the new 52 books. Scott Lobdell even said he made his books (red hood, teen titans, superbly) so you can read each issue independently. Even sighting Chris Claremont as an influence. Action Comics is pretty stand alone as well (other than the 2 parter) and so are Men of War, All-Star Western, etc. etc. I think anything outside of Geoff Johns and Brian Azzerello can be read out of order. Comics are no different than TV shows and novel series in that regard and people have zero problem with those.

It still sounds to me like OGN's are the way to go. Which would make them very similar to movies are already being attempted now to excellent results.

We'll have to agree to disagree because I haven't got that feeling with most of the new 52 books I've read. It's not insignificant though that you admit Johns and Azzerello's comics aren't accessible. Those two are probably the most high profile writers in the company (Johns even practically runs the company). The attitude they have about comics is the attitude DC is putting out to the public. It also trickles down to the other writers.

Also, the Lobdell thing isn't shocking since he's spent his entire career being a B-Level Claremont imitator.

 

[kame-sennin]

No, yes, either one, no, batman & robin, start at #1, yes

Cmon son how hard is it? especially with the internet.

As I've said repeatedly, if you don't have someone to guide you through the purchasing experience (friend, gaf, amazon reviews, wiki, comic book guy), you will not have a simple and streamlined buying experience. That's all there is to it. The point of the questions I posed was to show the various ways a new reader might be confused. Just because there are answers to those questions doesn't mean the buying process is easy.

4 of those "5 batman books" are crap cash grabs and are only there to attract suckers.

So why are they being made? If someone buys your product and feels like a "sucker" after they read it, they're not going to buy again. That's an incredibly stupid business tactic.

Movies and game story lines are just as convoluted no one is saying to buy all the Halo or Call of Duty games to understand the story or that you must buy every Star Wars or Indiana Jones or James Bond film to know whats going on. You can do that with everything then.

Every Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and James Bond film spends a significant amount of time reestablishing the characters and framing the central conflict of the story.

Then all I can say is screw them and focus on the kids again. Just pump these new 52 comics out and all over the place from online to supermarkets and let the kids select whatever looks cool. Leave the common person either A) do the 2 seconds of look up B) go to a library or bookstore and pick out what looks cool or C)pick up the #1 issue or origin book and see if they like that. If they are unwilling to do any of those 3 things then they aren't serious about getting into comics. It's like trying to convince a tea party or republican member to vote Obama.

All I know is DC and Marvel have done outstanding jobs in the past few years making it clear to regular joes what to pick up. If they are so dumb that they can't understand they can't be helped.

They're not starting karate lessons, they're picking up disposable entertainment. You shouldn't have to be "serious" about comics in order to grab one off the shelf and enjoy it. If the reader has to do research before they even walk into the store, the publisher has failed. Every weekend, millions of people show up to movie theaters not knowing what they want to see. They walk into a movie based on how interesting the title and poster are, and if the movie is good, they have a great time. If you want to get into Harry Potter, all you have to do is go to a book store and grab the first book. This is how entertainment is supposed to work. It doesn't because publishers are incompetent, and we have the sales data to prove it. Comics starring world famous characters struggle to sell more than 100K issues a month. They've done a shit job.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

*adds to list* Scott Snyder appears to be the second coming of comics writers at the moment judging from how often I see his name pop up.

Also, I read Fun Home! 'twas brilliant (if a bit depressing) - thank you again for the rec.

Awesome! If you're after more depressing, gay friendly comics, read Pedro and Me, I fucking love that book so much.

 

[kame-sennin]

It's Juna Ariyoshi from Earth Girl Arjuna, a much-derided anime series about a girl tasked with saving the world from creatures that feed on mankind's sin and pollution. It also happens to be one of my favourites, despite it being eye-rollingly hamfisted in promoting the views of the cult that its director joined and filled with psuedo-science and unlikeable characters.

Thanks. I really dig the design.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

It's Juna Ariyoshi from Earth Girl Arjuna, a much-derided anime series about a girl tasked with saving the world from creatures that feed on mankind's sin and pollution. It also happens to be one of my favourites, despite it being eye-rollingly hamfisted in promoting the views of the cult that its director joined and filled with psuedo-science and unlikeable characters.



Do major US book shops sell a large variety of comics that are easy to browse through? In the UK places like Waterstones will have some artbooks and maybe a copy or two of Alan Moore's stuff, but it's not immediately obvious what you should be picking up just based on that.

And while it's easy enough to research Batman et al, how would you go about Googling something like Sweet Tooth, or Testament, to use two of the more "odd" examples I've come across in the month or so since I really started reading comics?

For books like Sweet Tooth, start with the first trade and go from there (and do that, because it's brilliant).

For Batman, you can start ALMOST anywhere (with the exception of the Grant Morrison run, and DC really really fucked those trades up). A Batman story is a Batman story, the continuity is very light and you can just start with a book that looks good to you.

I would also never suggest that new readers should be reading single issues, they really only make sense for lifelong readers. Trades are where it's at for newbies.

 

[Anticitizen One]

For books like Sweet Tooth, start with the first trade and go from there (and do that, because it's brilliant).

For Batman, you can start ALMOST anywhere (with the exception of the Grant Morrison run, and DC really really fucked those trades up). A Batman story is a Batman story, the continuity is very light and you can just start with a book that looks good to you.

I would also never suggest that new readers should be reading single issues, they really only make sense for lifelong readers. Trades are where it's at for newbies.

Single issues are great for kids and longtime readers

trades for everyone else and you can pick up any trade and enjoy a complete story like you would a movie, novel, or video game.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Single issues are great for kids and longtime readers

trades for everyone else and you can pick up any trade and enjoy a complete story like you would a movie, novel, or video game.

Yep, totally agree. I started off reading random issues in the pre-internet days and had no probs understanding what was going on. That and I was easily entertained as a nine year old. But for a grown-up, I would never hand a non-reader friend a stack of floppies, I'd always give them a trade to read. And I probably wouldn't start them off with a superhero book either. I think those of us adults reading superheroes are a rather special breed of weirdo (and I mean that in the most positive sense, since I have many thousands of these books), but there are tons of great books suitable for non-manchildren too.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I caught between my hate of Bendis and my love for Simonson

what do I do you guys

 

[Parallax]

I caught between my hate of Bendis and my love for Simonson

what do I do you guys

Why are thor and protector fighting?

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

They should have let Walt draw Thor in his old costume for this arc

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

Batman brave and the Bold is not a crap cash grab

 

[BlueScrote]

I caught between my hate of Bendis and my love for Simonson

what do I do you guys

Are they scissoring?

 

[Satch]

Are they scissoring?

oh my god

self avatar quote
self avatar quote
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[ViewtifulJC]

oh my god

self avatar quote
self avatar quote
self avatar quote

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So on the next issue of Wolverine and the X-men, Logan and Quire go to an intergalactic Las Vegas(Lurg the Living Casino!) to win money to keep the school going.

Meanwhile, the X-men have gone inside Kitty Pryde's pregnant body to destroy the army of microscopic alien assassins.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

wolverine going to intergalactic las vegas sounds like something from futurama and i mean that in a good way

 

[Spike Spiegel]

MOST FUN COMIC EVER

 

[Satch]

who is the father of kitty's child?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

who is the father of kitty's child?

Rachael Grey, probably

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

who is the father of kitty's child?

Spoiler

She's not really pregnant it's just millions of microscopic Brood destroying her insides

At least that's what I gathered reading the last issue

 

[Parallax]

Rachael Grey, probably

Anything to be more relevant, huh?

 

[LiQuid!]

So on the next issue of Wolverine and the X-men, Logan and Quire go to an intergalactic Las Vegas(Lurg the Living Casino!) to win money to keep the school going.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1328906074.jpg[IMG]

Meanwhile, the X-men have gone inside Kitty Pryde's pregnant body to destroy the army of microscopic alien assassins.

[IMG]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1328906117.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I want this right now!!!!

 

[Tizoc]

Just another friendly reminder about getting your copy of the friendly neighborhood daredevil.

Nice GIF!

Daredevil's my fav. book from Marvel atm; I've read Bendis and Brubaker's run, but it's Waid's run that made me like the character =)

Speaking of black characters with differing opinions on how they sell, I wish Blade from marvel would get a tie-in or something.

Paul Cornell used him in Captain Britain and MI13; he should write a Blade mini IMO.

...also I've read Ant a long time ago and wouldn't mind reading the series again; but what books should I pick up of it?

 

[Splatt]

David Liss's run on Black Panther ended. Tragedy really, considering people were forced to endure Hudlin's shit for so long(and then Maberry's).

Liss came the closest to the quality of Priest's 90's run + final issues featured awesome art by Oeming.

 

[Tizoc]

David Liss's run on Black Panther ended. Tragedy really, considering people were forced to endure Hudlin's shit for so long(and then Maberry's).

Liss came the closest to the quality of Priest's 90's run + final issues featured awesome art by Oeming.

Hmm, Liss' run is on my 'to read list'.

I personally liked Hudlin's run. Though I gotta say Priest's is perhaps the best B. Panther run ever.

 

[Parallax]

Hmm, Liss' run is on my 'to read list'.

I personally liked Hudlin's run. Though I gotta say Priest's is perhaps the best B. Panther run ever.

you liked hudlins run? may i ask why?

 

[Tizoc]

you liked hudlins run? may i ask why?

It was my first exposure to the Black Panther. I've read it a long time ago however, but liked it then. I'll try to reread it, although I liked how he was written sort of like the Batman that out-Batmans Batman.

 

[Splatt]

Hudlin's first arc was alright, even though it took a huge shit on Priest's run by retconning it out of existence. It helped that John Romita Jr. was at the top of his game.

Everything after that is crud, especially the forced marriage between Panther and Storm.

 

[Parallax]

Hudlin's first arc was alright, even though it took a huge shit on Priest's run by retconning it out of existence. It helped that John Romita Jr. was at the top of his game.

Everything after that is crud, especially the forced marriage between Panther and Storm.

Everything about hudlins run pissed me off. But the marriage was the biggest pile of shit ever. He hyped it up as such a big fucking event and it was a big ass waste of paper. Combine that with putting two characters that work better separately together, under some dumb ass reason that he pulled out of his ass for the sake of this event, and you have the brilliance of reginald hudlin's writing rolled up in one micro event. he should stick to making house party type movies

 

[akira28]

Team Stormy\Panther is go!

Yeah it's kind of hokey in the context of the big picture. Like, 'why did they have to take the two African superpowers and pair them up?' But then again, I like Ororo and I like T'challa, and I like them together.

Yes they both have fully complete, fleshed out worlds in their own right, that worked perfectly, totally independently of each other. But together they could be a new super-power couple to rival the Fantastic Four. But there has to be good writing to make it so. That whole Macbeth succession story and the mega crossovers and then the Panther god choosing someone else, has gotten in the way of their potential. Instead of doing away with Stormy\Panther, we need someone with the vision to make them something great. And not something where in the end Panther is forced to do the noble fool thing like when Wakanda lost it's special vibranium power. I blame the writers for these things.

 

[Haemolacria]

Let me tell you something, when I got into comics back in the 90s they were doing story arcs and the continuity was convoluted back then I didn't give a shit I just picked up whatever had cool covers at the supermarket.

*Enter Internet-Brofist here*

The very first time I really read a contemporary superhero-comic was back in ~1994-1995 with the conclusive issue of The Phalanx Covenant that was running in the X-universe at the time. The only characters I really knew from the X-Men were Cyclops and Wolverine but I didn't let a minor detail like that stand in the way - I just thought the cover was quite badass and just went with it. Needless to say, when I finished the issue my feelings were a mixture of "What is this I don't even" and "Huh.....wow"

EDIT:

I just read that the Aaron/Dillon-collaboration called PunisherMax just reached its end. I have read both Kingpin and Bullseye-story arcs but that's about it. What's the consensus on the overall quality from that point on?

 

[fredrancour]

*Enter Internet-Brofist here*

The very first time I really read a contemporary superhero-comic was back in ~1994-1995 with the conclusive issue of The Phalanx Covenant that was running in the X-universe at the time. The only characters I really knew from the X-Men were Cyclops and Wolverine but I didn't let a minor detail like that stand in the way - I just thought the cover was quite badass and just went with it. Needless to say, when I finished the issue my feelings were a mixture of "What is this I don't even" and "Huh.....wow"

EDIT:

I just read that the Aaron/Dillon-collaboration called PunisherMax just reached its end. I have read both Kingpin and Bullseye-story arcs but that's about it. What's the consensus on the overall quality from that point on?

Basically every time i've heard an opinion on it, people have said, "It was enjoyable and worthwhile but not as good as Ennis' punisher."

 

[Splatt]

That's because Ennis's Punisher is the definitive version, you just can't one-up that.

Aaron's whole run is great and ends the series on a very sad note. I'd gladly recommend it to anyone, especially to fans of the character.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Yeah new people can be ocd about dropping in.

Can you really blame us though? First of all you have to walk into a specialized comic book store, it's no longer picking up comics in the supermarket. Second, you walk in and see a bazillion books with a bazillion characters all on issue #647, and you're like, "I have made a terrible mistake coming here." My first time in a comic book store I must have spent an hour just trying to figure out which book I wanted to buy. It gets exponentially easier after that, but that first time it's just a mind-boggling experience.

 

[fredrancour]

God, they really do need to get comics in stores that aren't specialty comic shops. My first american comics ever were things my grandmother impulse-bought me at a grocery store when I was little. Some random issue of superman and 2 issues of batman aftershock, which was some phase of the whole no man's land thing.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Can you really blame us though? First of all you have to walk into a specialized comic book store, it's no longer picking up comics in the supermarket. Second, you walk in and see a bazillion books with a bazillion characters all on issue #647, and you're like, "I have made a terrible mistake coming here." My first time in a comic book store I must have spent an hour just trying to figure out which book I wanted to buy. It gets exponentially easier after that, but that first time it's just a mind-boggling experience.

But that's part of the fun in going to a comic shop. If you're put off by that then you should be buying trades from amazon, or maybe even asking the store owner for advice. If its a good store they'll be more than willing to help out, they would probably even let you sit down and have a read of stuff that you might like. Comics are no more arcane than things like soap operas or print novel stories and people jump on to them all the time. You're getting hung up on these details that don't even matter.

But on the other hand, your OCD nature means you'll have a bright future reading comics

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

God, they really do need to get comics in stores that aren't specialty comic shops. My first american comics ever were things my grandmother impulse-bought me at a grocery store when I was little. Some random issue of superman and 2 issues of batman aftershock, which was some phase of the whole no man's land thing.

While i agree this needs to be done, a lot of it is out of Marvel and DCs hands. A lot of it has to do with the fact that diamond doesnt accept returns and they have a monopoly on distribution.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

God, they really do need to get comics in stores that aren't specialty comic shops. My first american comics ever were things my grandmother impulse-bought me at a grocery store when I was little. Some random issue of superman and 2 issues of batman aftershock, which was some phase of the whole no man's land thing.

They are, I can buy digital comics on my toilet. Victory!

 

[Haemolacria]

That's because Ennis's Punisher is the definitive version, you just can't one-up that.

Aaron's whole run is great and ends the series on a very sad note. I'd gladly recommend it to anyone, especially to fans of the character.

Well....uh.....damn. I suppose there's no way around it then. Just ordered Punisher Max: Frank and pre-ordered Punisher Max: Homeless

 

[Spike Spiegel]

They are, I can buy digital comics on my toilet. Victory!

Real question is, can digital distribution break the stranglehold Diamond has on comics by attracting enough new readers, before that stranglehold becomes a deathgrip that drags the industry down. Or, is it already too late?

 

[fredrancour]

I guess DD works once you're interested, and removes the need for being put off by visiting a specialty store, but I feel like there'd still be something gained from impulse buys of physical copies if diamond wasn't a monopoly. Also I buy physical comics so I tend to forget digital exists