• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

COMICS! July |OT| - Independents Day

Status
Not open for further replies.
This makes no sense. This is not the 60s anymore. He's not getting a Jokercopter again.

Snyder has this one.
Snyder can keep this one, if what he's pushing is a higher body count. In his current form, the Joker's continued existence is a prickling aberration, a sensationalist anomaly, that undermines the dark "reality" his increasingly violent and psychotic actions seek to create, while making everyone surrounding him seem at best ineffectual and at worst enabling. That you find fault in his 60s clownish portrayal and not this is disheartening.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I haven't seen this mentioned and I just learned of it, but Greg Rucka's Stumptown returns for its second arc beginning in September, courtesy of Oni Press.

From Eisner Award-winning writer Greg Rucka and acclaimed artist Matthew Southworth comes a new STUMPTOWN mystery! When Mim Bracca, guitar player for the Portland-based rock group Tailhook, returns home from a long tour, she finds not everything made it back with her. Can P.I. Dex Parios track down her missing baby?

1jIHil.jpg
 

Owzers

Member
Ehhhhhh i'm excited because it's Snyder. Batman in general is a constant reminder of why i don't like cape comics, but i put that aside for the most part and enjoy the ride from time to time...and buy a lot of cape books from Marvel/DC. Joker kills people, joker gets caught, joker escapes arkham and kills people and gets caught and kills people and escapes and gets caught and etc etc etc. Batman doesn't kill, but it's entirely unbelievable that any judicial system would have a revolving door for consistent murderers.
 
No one is shouting for a clownish tamed Joker. A dangerous Joker is hardly an aberration. His continuing existence is a comic genre standard. I just see you picking and choosing what makes something illogical.

I know you have issue with the violence in DC with nary a mention of the same level of violence in Marvel or any other company. I love and support across every company line. I love comics. You seem to post positive Marvel and negative DC like clockwork, and I guess that's cool for you. It's nearing OMG RITE levels at this point.

Bottom line: a dangerous Joker is the popular representation. Perhaps a floppish clown is down the road for you, but please stop pretending that it's some sort of error.
Too late.

Look, I know you've seen this question posed, you must have whether serious or in jest: "why doesn't [blank] just kill the Joker?"

The real gag is that the question people should be asking is, "why are we even asking why [blank] doesn't just kill the Joker?" The answer is that with rare exception, DC's writers have continuously pigeon-holed the Joker into the role of reprehensible inhuman monster, someone completely insane and unquestionably evil, all to demonstrate just how dark and twisted and "real" Batman's world can be, without stopping to realize just how unrealistic and unsustainable that concept truly is.

This is a villain who has gassed hundreds (thousands even!), has slit throats and gashed faces with razor blades, and has shot innocent people for simply getting in his way. This is a villain who shot the police commissioner's daughter in the spine, paralyzing her for life (until reboot), then stripped her naked and took pictures to torment her father. This is a villain who beat a teenaged boy half to death with a crowbar, then blew he and his mother to pieces in a bomb explosion. This is a villain who shot an unarmed woman in the face in a room full of newborn babies, for crying out loud! And those are just the most obvious and well-known examples of the character's infamy!

Any sane, rational person would look at this man and his list of twisted crimes and above all his complete lack of remorse and say, "clinically insane or not, this monster deserves to die." And yet what happens, time and again? Joker gets caught by Batman. A judge declares him criminally insane, and shipped off to Arkham he goes. Joker bides his time, then escapes killing some orderlies in the process. Joker kills some more people with a grand scheme, one more horrific than the last horrific thing he's done. Batman catches him, and the cycle repeats ad nauseum. It's so routine that it's sickening. With all the cops he's killed, with all the people with families he's killed, with all the lives he's ruined in his long career of villainy, you'd think that SOMEONE out there would walk up to this guy while he's in handcuffs or in a cell and put a bullet in his brain. Or an orderly would poison his food. Or one of the other heroes, one with a less strict code against killing reprehensible monsters, would say "I got this" and rip him in half lengthwise. SOMEONE along that chain would have to have taken a look at the laundry list of terrible deeds he's done and have the balls to end it all, and no one with any sense would blame that person or hold them accountable.

Except Batman.

Batman's the worst one of all, without question. Now, I get why Batman himself doesn't give in to his desire to kill the Joker; that whole thing about that fine line he walks between light and darkness, and crossing over that line with the Joker's murder wouldn't just stop at Joker. I'm not saying I agree with it, especially after all of the terrible things DC has had the Joker do in recent years; at this point, nobody's going to bring the hammer down on Batman for offing Joker anymore, and killing someone who deserves it doesn't automatically flip the murder switch. But, I get it... the thing is, Batman not only won't kill the Joker, he has actually gone out of his way to save Joker's life or prevent others from killing him. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, because DC's writers have painted Joker an irredeemable ghoul, and I don't see how you can look at Batman's actions as anything but enabling. Not wanting to get your hands dirty is one thing, but stopping someone else who has the balls to do what you won't, when no one in their right mind should object? That is true insanity.

And it only continues to get worse. Joker's body count keeps going up with each new writer, nobody in Gotham does anything about it because the writers won't off such an iconic villain, and hypocrisy in Batman's world just keeps on building.

They've dug a hole so deep they can't get out, so they just keep digging.

We should never have gotten to a point where the Joker's continued existence makes a mockery of justice, legal or otherwise.
 

Jintor

Member
The only answer is to reset continuity!

Speaking of that, was Flashpoint seriously the latest continuity reset or was there more to it?
 
Spike Spiegel, just what are you trying to say?

Apparently that Batman, and every other superhero, should kill the villains, to both punish them and to prevent future killings. Which will then lead to them killing mobsters, etc etc down the line so as to prevent all future killings and travesties.

All wrapped up nicely with a bow. Which both ignore how superhero comics work, as well as set in motion the road to each life being easier and easier to take, thereby making the superheroes as bad as the villains.

Someone read The Dark Knight Returns and believed it. He thinks Batman (the Superheroes) are responsible for the future crimes of the Villains if they don't off them.


Which is ridiculous and insulting.
 

Owzers

Member
Now you've wasted your breath. Congrats.

I guess you'll be campaigning against Thanos next since genre conventions of comics elude you?

Some comics require so much suspension of disbelief that it's hard to fully enjoy. Batman/Joker tango is one of them for me.
 
Some comics require so much suspension of disbelief that it's hard to fully enjoy. Batman/Joker tango is one of them for me.

Maybe it's time to move on? Because they are never having the superheroes kill the dangerous, evil villains wholesale in Marvel/DC, save lunatics like the Punisher.

Which should speak volumes right there.


If the genre staple of the revolving door bothers you, time to change genres.
 

Owzers

Member
Maybe it's time to move on? Because they are never having the superheroes kill the dangerous, evil villains wholesale in Marvel/DC, save lunatics like the Punisher.

Which should speak volumes right there.


If the genre staple of the revolving door bothers you, time to change genres.

I've started increasing non marvel/dc books but i still like/am interested in DC/Marvel, and in part i'm semi-addicted to events/characters i like/creative teams i like who happen to work at Marvel and DC/etc etc etc. Not only does Marvel not kill their villains, they put them in charge of Shield :p

Some cape books hide it better than others, stuff like Uncanny X-Force for instance, or anything that creates a new side of their storytelling universe where they create new characters to kill/not kill. What really gets to me is the continuity cycle, stuff like Joker/Luthor/Jameson hating Spidey.
 
Spike Spiegel, just what are you trying to say?
That in their headlong dash to escape the trappings of camp portrayals, all DC have managed to do is trade one caricature for another, worse caricature. That bad writers should never have been allowed to turn a recurring character such as the Joker into an overblown serial killer cliche, and thus create a world where the ineffectiveness of Gotham's justice system, the enabling tendencies of its protector Batman, and the unwillingness of Gotham's citizens to take the law into its own hands, defy all rational thought and undermine one's suspension of disbelief in such a basic and inexcusable manner. That I want a Joker whose machinations are once again motivated by something other than a higher body count, or by seeing just how depraved and twisted he can get in a desperate bid for Batman's attention. And that if things refuse to change, Batman should at least have the good sense to realize that when Joker's life hangs the balance and is weighed against all his crimes, saving him is NOT the right answer.
 
That in their headlong dash to escape the trappings of camp portrayals, all DC have managed to do is trade one caricature for another, worse caricature. That bad writers should never have been allowed to turn a recurring character such as the Joker into an overblown serial killer cliche, and thus create a world where the ineffectiveness of Gotham's justice system, the enabling tendencies of its protector Batman, and the unwillingness of Gotham's citizens to take the law into its own hands, defy all rational thought and undermine one's suspension of disbelief in such a basic and inexcusable manner. That I want a Joker whose machinations are once again motivated by something other than a higher body count, or by seeing just how depraved and twisted he can get in a desperate bid for Batman's attention. And that if things refuse to change, Batman should at least have the good sense to realize that when Joker's life hangs the balance and is weighed against all his crimes, saving him is NOT the right answer.

Preach.
 

Why should they worry about the integrity of the thing that makes them less money than the movies, video games, and cartoons?

Killing Joke > Dark Knight (movie) > Modern Batman funnies

Wag the dog comic writing at it's finest.

Homicidal Joker is the new X-men in black leather bullshit. Let's hope nobody gets turned into a furry too.

I'll continue to be the twisted version of Frazetta's Death Dealer as I laugh at you all from my totally bad ass high horse. :D

Speaking of New 52 - found the new Batman funnies at the liberry today. I hope Greg Capullo hits his stride again. The storytelling in this is a bit weaker than the stuff he used to crank out on Spawn in his prime, but if what George Perez was saying is correct - then this is probably all editorials fault.

Why the comic industry allows the partner that contributes the least to have the most influence over the final product baffles me.
 
I only read the first Ennis series all the way and thought it was interesting, but didn't finish Family Values and never started Psychopath based on not liking FV. I think I just felt it'd been played out in the first series and I didn't need more. How is Ennis' return?

I'm liking the web comic, but I'm not sure I'm willing to spend more money on this world. I might be interested to see where this idea ends up, unless it just continues to be revolting for the sake of it.

I read

Chew
Saga
Locke & Key (haven't started it yet)
I haven't read Chew yet, and I bought a bunch of L&K but haven't started yet. I just read Animal Man trade, and liked it a lot.

I'm enjoying the Joshua Luna mini Whispers, but I think it only going to be 6 issues. #3 just came out and it's only coming out every other month. The other Luna stuff is good too, although with Girls and The Sword I found myself needing to trust them. Like there were moments early on where if it were by a lesser writer I would have been irritated, but they pull it all together by the end.

I can't recommend any DC/Marvel other than Animal Man cuz I haven't read anything else recently.
 
Red hood should have killed the Joker in like issue two while having sex with Kori in front of Dick Grayson and Batman's forced to watch all of it.
 
I am really excited for Snyder's story, but I think it is primarily because I have only been in comics for like 6 (when ever 52 started) years. I've only read Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, and Morrison's recent stuff with Joker.

So I think maybe I don't have Joker fatigue like some of you?

And yes he is becoming incredibly violent, but if you think about it, he is no more violent than many other villans, but its just more emphasized with Joker. Which it should be because he is absolutely batshit crazy.

I don't want to get into the someone should kill be trying to kill the Joker argument but, Batman is a grounded character, thus his rogue gallery doesn't have insane power levels. Therefore it would theoretically be very easy to kill Joker, but that ruins a lot of the fun doesn't it?
 

Jintor

Member
Given the insanity of other bullshit that happens in the DC Universe, I don't really have trouble suspending my disbelief with regards to Joker.

I also prefer Elseworlds - Secret Identity is by far my favourite superhero comic of them all.
 

Tizoc

Member
^Oh I just saw that some time ago but didn't post it here since it might've been a scan ^_^;
New Avengers line-up prob.? I don't really like some of the included cast but otherwise, it's gonna be written by Hickman right? If it's as good as his FF/F4 run I can expect some good characterization at least =3 Oh and Rocket being on the team is totally them prepping for the GoG movie

Spike makes a valid point about the Joker and I agree with him.
I sorta've had similar thoughts like he wrote in his post(s).

...and screw all you Cyclops haters D=<
I miss when Cyclops was awesome (goes back to reading when Morrison, Joss and Brian K. Vaughan made Cyclops awesome)
 
I am really excited for Snyder's story, but I think it is primarily because I have only been in comics for like 6 (when ever 52 started) years. I've only read Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, and Morrison's recent stuff with Joker.

So I think maybe I don't have Joker fatigue like some of you?

And yes he is becoming incredibly violent, but if you think about it, he is no more violent than many other villans, but its just more emphasized with Joker. Which it should be because he is absolutely batshit crazy.

I don't want to get into the someone should kill be trying to kill the Joker argument but, Batman is a grounded character, thus his rogue gallery doesn't have insane power levels. Therefore it would theoretically be very easy to kill Joker, but that ruins a lot of the fun doesn't it?

It doesn't really seem like joker fatigue specifically so much as status quo fatigue. Years of seeing status quo slavery from the big 2 makes all instances of it less tolerable, i guess.
 

Ponn

Banned

Nesotenso

Member
I think it clearly shows the costume changes and the emphasized books in the post AvsX landscape.

Pretty much confirms that Guardians of the Galaxy with Nova as lead is the second 2014 movie.
 
It doesn't really seem like joker fatigue specifically so much as status quo fatigue. Years of seeing status quo slavery from the big 2 makes all instances of it less tolerable, i guess.

Then like I said superhero comics may no longer be for you. Expecting otherwise is just setting yourself up for 500 word rants like Spike's misguided page.

Superheroes are modern mythology and it will always reset to zero. I just find it funny that he sets the Joker apart when it's the whole genre. I suppose all superheroes should kill their arch villains.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
I think it clearly shows the costume changes and the emphasized books in the post AvsX landscape.

Pretty much confirms that Guardians of the Galaxy with Nova as lead is the second 2014 movie.

if true, please dont be fucking sam. i dont think i could cope if he was the nova in movie.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
So I'm pretty new to comics but the new 52 is confusing me. So its a reboot but everything that happened before happened? Like Batman has only been active for 5 years now but has had all the robins AND had his son? Wat.

No, Batman's been active a lot longer than that. In Justice League #1 (set 5 years ago), he had been active for a number of years already. Damian's what, 10? So Bruce has been doing the do for at least 12 years. With the Robins, imagine that they're only in the job for a couple of years and it's not too much of a stretch. Dick Grayson was about 13-14 when he was Robin, now he's mid-20s, that fits. Jason was only Robin for a little while, and Tim was there for about 3 or 4 years too. It all fits roughly, and what doesn't can be squished in and forgotten about.

Batman's continuity is largely the same, unless they say it isn't.

They key to enjoying comics is to STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT! The story is there on the page, worry about that. Everything else is fanwank.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
New 52 was the final straw for me and DC. Continuity matters to me and they've always been really serious about it in theory but always end up making you go wat.

Ha. I'm imagining you with flowcharts on your wall, or maybe you're curating one of those insane continuity websites.

Continuity doesn't matter. When you accept this, you will be happier. It's a burden, lifted from your shoulders.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
the solution is: everyone is an Avenger. comics. *sigh*
 
No, Batman's been active a lot longer than that. In Justice League #1 (set 5 years ago), he had been active for a number of years already. Damian's what, 10? So Bruce has been doing the do for at least 12 years. With the Robins, imagine that they're only in the job for a couple of years and it's not too much of a stretch. Dick Grayson was about 13-14 when he was Robin, now he's mid-20s, that fits. Jason was only Robin for a little while, and Tim was there for about 3 or 4 years too. It all fits roughly, and what doesn't can be squished in and forgotten about.

Batman's continuity is largely the same, unless they say it isn't.

They key to enjoying comics is to STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT! The story is there on the page, worry about that. Everything else is fanwank.

This is the hardest I've ever agreed with you. Ever.

Wanna make out?


EDIT: Why is the Bendis X book the one I want most? Why? I'm a sucker for
the original X-Men!
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
are you a sucker for them with an entire page spanning speech bubble. Done with no hint of irony in Spider-Men 2.

Another Remender book is good, clearly Marvel are recognising the positive swell of opinion there, but fucking hell, theres literally no point to being classified as an Avenger any more. Are you a Marvel character? Yes. You're an Avenger then.

Felt like I was having a right rollicking renaissance with supes books, now looks like I'm on the way out again.
 
are you a sucker for them with an entire page spanning speech bubble. Done with no hint of irony in Spider-Men 2.

Another Remender book is good, clearly Marvel are recognising the positive swell of opinion there, but fucking hell, theres literally no point to being classified as an Avenger any more. Are you a Marvel character? Yes. You're an Avenger then.

Felt like I was having a right rollicking renaissance with supes books, now looks like I'm on the way out again.

No that's why it's killing me. :(

On your way out? Hickman, Snyder, Remender, Gillen, man! That's just the tip of the iceburg. So many great comics right now.

Put the preconceptions aside and see how they pan out. :D

Birdie taught me that with FrankenPunisher. He was right. He was right.
 

Nesotenso

Member
are you a sucker for them with an entire page spanning speech bubble. Done with no hint of irony in Spider-Men 2.

Another Remender book is good, clearly Marvel are recognising the positive swell of opinion there, but fucking hell, theres literally no point to being classified as an Avenger any more. Are you a Marvel character? Yes. You're an Avenger then.

Felt like I was having a right rollicking renaissance with supes books, now looks like I'm on the way out again.

Bendis at his worst there. Now he comes to ruin the X-Verse.
 

tim1138

Member
Bleeding Cool has some details for the Marvel refresh/whatever it is. The leaked image is roster for Uncanny Avengers, which will be their flagship book and have X-Men and Avenger types on the same team. Bendis' X-Men book is the original five as teenagers who traveled forward in time to the current Marvel/Marvel Now! continuity.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
http://i.imgur.com/MzrET.jpg
My head.
Not even the worst example any more:
g7XWq.jpg

Comic book, Bendis, you are writing a comic book.

Uncanny Avengers honestly just doesnt make a lick of sense (especially one of the roster if that image is to be taken as gospel). I really miss the distinct separate teams of the MU, while the movies and stuff move to cement a solid base of their own, just feels like Marvel wants to just erode all their books into the same things.

I'm okay with Spidey being an Avenger, but then he's now also part of FF, Wolverine is on like... 5 teams, and it all just gets really muddled. I guess Marvel wants the Avengers to be the Justice League equivalent these days or something.
 

Owzers

Member
*can read AvX #5 and #6 in around 9 hours, must avoid looking at anymore Marvel spoilers until then*

Currently reading Huntress Cry Blood and liking it.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
AvX #5 Spoiler

This might be the most stupid story in Comics I've ever read. And I read Maximum Clonage
 
Not sure if this is the best thread to ask in but is there any good comics like Preacher, Y the last man, the walking dead, DMZ? I need something new to read but have no clue whats good out right now.
 
Not sure if this is the best thread to ask in but is there any good comics like Preacher, Y the last man, the walking dead, DMZ? I need something new to read but have no clue whats good out right now.

Read Saga. It's awesome (same writer as Y the last man). You might also enjoy Scalped, Ex Machina, and American Vampire
 

Tizoc

Member
*can read AvX #5 and #6 in around 9 hours, must avoid looking at anymore Marvel spoilers until then*

Currently reading Huntress Cry Blood and liking it.

Another great series from Greg Rucka.

...and I see nothing wrong with Bendis' dialog; it's just different than how any other author writes a character's dialog. ...it's just his way of doing it.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Not sure if this is the best thread to ask in but is there any good comics like Preacher, Y the last man, the walking dead, DMZ? I need something new to read but have no clue whats good out right now.

Read Saga. It's awesome (same writer as Y the last man). You might also enjoy Scalped, Ex Machina, and American Vampire

Saga, while great, is a bad rec since there isn't even the first trade available yet. The best thing about the books GhostRidah posted is that they're all finished. It is new though, for sure.

Off the top of my head, I suggest Sweet Tooth. It's not quite finished yet but is just about the start the final arc.

I notice that your examples are mostly 'serious', non cape works, but there are some series from more mainstream backgrounds that are also fantastic. Sandman is one of the greatest comics I've ever read from start to end, it's sublime. Starman is the best comic about the values of family and legacy that I can imagine. Swamp Thing is a brilliant horror comic that is very surprising if you don't know what to expect from it. Together with the Invisibles, those are probably my favourite 'classic' books that you haven't mentioned.
 
Saga, while great, is a bad rec since there isn't even the first trade available yet. The best thing about the books GhostRidah posted is that they're all finished. It is new though, for sure.

Off the top of my head, I suggest Sweet Tooth. It's not quite finished yet but is just about the start the final arc.

I notice that your examples are mostly 'serious', non cape works, but there are some series from more mainstream backgrounds that are also fantastic. Sandman is one of the greatest comics I've ever read from start to end, it's sublime. Starman is the best comic about the values of family and legacy that I can imagine. Swamp Thing is a brilliant horror comic that is very surprising if you don't know what to expect from it. Together with the Invisibles, those are probably my favourite 'classic' books that you haven't mentioned.

Good point. I'm getting spoiled by going digital. I forgot about the struggles of floppy searching. It's still my favorite series going right now. To pull on the "outskirts of capes" theme then I'd throw a vote for Gotham Central. My favorite police comic book out there. Great stuff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom