Support NeoGAF

[Fancy Clown]

This is exactly what I mean by "missing key points", btw

Spoiler

Batman has gone off the deep end, and became uncharacteristically hyper-violent. Alfred says MULTIPLE TIMES that this is not how Batman usually operates, or should operate for that matter. For most of the movie, he's a fucking bad guy, and you're supposed to find his actions repulsive. There's that, and the fact he quotes Historically Wrong Guy Dick Cheney verbatim

Wonder Woman has abandoned the matters of our world for a century, following the shit she's seen in WWI.

Both get back to being Actual Goddamn Heroes when they see Superman. Batman saves Martha, and WW provides the assist in the Doomsday fight.

Spoiler

It doesn't show Batman changing at all. He still slaughters a ton of dudes to save someone, and that's what he was doin before, slaughtering people bad guys to save people. And he certainly doesn't save her because of being inspired by Superman. He saves Martha because it reminded him of his own mother so it was his chance to prevent his childhood trauma from repeating itself. The only visible change he has is deciding not brand Lex at the end, but that doesn't really drive home any point about him striving for a new ideal because of Superman, since the last hour and a half since they teamed up didn't have any effect on him. The movie also didn't explain Batman's murderous tendencies very well. Was it because of the dead Robin that only comic book readers will notice and the film doesn't touch on beyond an Easter egg? Or is he becoming unhinged due to Superman's presence? And if so why would he be killing guys like its nothing because of that? And you'd think Alfred would make a bigger fuss about Batman killing specifically, but he seems more upset about the branding since it's after that news clip he talks about men turning cruel in relationship to Superman.

And nothing Superman did had any impact on Wonder Woman. She came back to action because Doomsday was wrecking the whole city. She never even talks to Superman or mentions him. But she was basically a non character in the movie anyway

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Spoiler

Bruce is in the end clearly inspired and will be the Nick Fury of the other Justice League member. But this doesnt happen until Supes is dead.
Diana seems still to doesnt give a shit about humanity.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

This thread has now been redacted

 

[Poodlestrike]

Spoiler

After the army girl tells the audience that Metropolis is magical evacuated in two minutes. Maybe I would have given him more credit of the city was actually populated at that point.
Shouldnt have done this maybe, maybe woudlnt event come to Gotham that fast when he didnt droped him from space.

Spoiler

That's not what actually happens though. Metropolis wasn't evacuated, there's a news report saying that the city center is largely empty because of the hour. Plus, you know, the weirdness with the ship that started before Doomsday even cropped up. But still, even if the city center was relatively empty, it's not like there wasn't anybody there, or in the rest of the city. His first priority was to get the alien monstrosity the hell away from regular humans. In what world is that not heroic?

And Doomsday wouldn't have fallen in Gotham if the government hadn't elected to nuke Superman.

Spoiler

It doesn't show Batman changing at all. He still slaughters a ton of dudes to save someone, and that's what he was doin before, slaughtering people bad guys to save people. And he certainly doesn't save her because of being inspired by Superman. He saves Martha because it reminded him of his own mother so it was his chance to prevent his childhood trauma from repeating itself. The only visible change he has is deciding not brand Lex at the end, but that doesn't really drive home any point about him striving for a new ideal because of Superman, since the last hour and a half since they teamed up didn't have any effect on him. The movie also didn't explain Batman's murderous tendencies very well. Was it because of the dead Robin that only comic book readers will notice and the film doesn't touch on beyond an Easter egg? Or is he becoming unhinged due to Superman's presence? And if so why would he be killing guys like its nothing because of that? And you'd think Alfred would make a bigger fuss about Batman killing specifically, but he seems more upset about the branding since it's after that news clip he talks about men turning cruel in relationship to Superman.

And nothing Superman did had any impact on Wonder Woman. She came back to action because Doomsday was wrecking the whole city. She never even talks to Superman or mentions him. But she was basically a non character in the movie anyway

Spoiler

He also has that giant speech about not failing Superman in death like he did in life. So there's that. Plus, he's got like 5 seperate moments about how he's totally burned out. The good men cruel speech from Alfred comes to mind. It's the dead Robin, the deaths, the betrayals (how man good guys are left, how many stayed that way), and, yeah, Metropolis. They make it super super clear. And Wondy is pretty clearly ready to start helping again, rather than hiding.

 

[Messi]

Spoiler

This thread has now been redacted

Spoiler

What is going on?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Spoiler

What is going on?

BvS talk.

I told y'all this would end poorly!

 

[ElNarez]

Spoiler

The movie also didn't explain Batman's murderous tendencies very well. Was it because of the dead Robin that only comic book readers will notice and the film doesn't touch on beyond an Easter egg? Or is he becoming unhinged due to Superman's presence and if so why would he be killing guys like its nothing because of that.

Spoiler

There's that whole opening sequence, where Batman is in the middle of Metropolis during the Zod fight and realizes how tiny and insignificant he is.

And then there's that whole closing sequence where Bruce and Diana talk about living up to Superman's legacy.

Again, I feel you're ignoring the text. It's 3AM where I am, so, if you're interested in looking into it further, here's a great piece going into almost everything that happens in the movie, and explaining how it fits together and basically says Superman is cool and good

 

[Owzers]

This thread has now been redacted

It's better that way.

 

[TetraxShards]

This thread has now been redacted

Find out the shocking conclusion in ComicGAF: NeoGAF's Elite, now collected in trade paperback for the first time as ComicGAF Disavowed.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Spoiler

That's not what actually happens though. Metropolis wasn't evacuated, there's a news report saying that the city center is largely empty because of the hour. Plus, you know, the weirdness with the ship that started before Doomsday even cropped up. But still, even if the city center was relatively empty, it's not like there wasn't anybody there, or in the rest of the city. His first priority was to get the alien monstrosity the hell away from regular humans. In what world is that not heroic?

And Doomsday wouldn't have fallen in Gotham if the government hadn't elected to nuke Superman.

Spoiler

The german dub said it was empty. It was Lost in translation maybe, I will look at this when the movie is on Netflix or the R Rated Cut is in offer. I am pretty sure it was the voice of the army girl, but maybe they are to similar or I didnt gave enough attention at this point anymore. And you are right regarding the drop off.

I have to leave the discussion at this point, I would love to continue, but its 3 am and I have to stay up a little bit earlier tomorrow. Sorry.
Still I would have loved to see Superman or Batman save civilans right in a battle with a big villain.

 

[Mitch]

All this BvS talk makes me want to see it again. Although I won't dish out the IMAX ticket price if I do it again.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

All this BvS talk makes me want to see it again. Although I won't dish out the IMAX ticket price if I do it again.

I would love to see it for Batman again. The scene where he fights in the warehous is super amazing and I had my maniac grin on my face that I always have when I see amazing superhero stuff at the big screen.
Cant wait that someone uploads it on youtube.

 

[Freezasaurus]

All this BvS talk makes me want to see it again. Although I won't dish out the IMAX ticket price if I do it again.

Was there anything specifically jaw-dropping in IMAX? I saw it in 3D and thought the visuals were more than adequate.

 

[Discotheque]

Batman at the end of his rope is fine. I can actually buy that. Not just because of Metropolis but all the bad shit compounding on his life with that man of Steel ending breaking the camels back. That's fine.

Superman sucks so much tho. He is literally tethered to the world solely by the two women. They actually want to go the injustice route with him smh.

Spoiler

the knightmare sequence says enough

 

[Mitch]

Was there anything specifically jaw-dropping in IMAX? I saw it in 3D and thought the visuals were more than adequate.

Saw it in IMAX 2D. It was quite the experience in large format.

 

[Fancy Clown]

No, he does it for the world.

Spoiler

"This is my world. You are my world."

He does it for both.

Also, this



Is lol. "You never see him do anything heroic other than that montage of him doing heroic things!"

I mean, besides

Spoiler

him immediately dragging Doomsday's ass to space, away from any civilians, and keeping on him when he sees the nuke coming, and willingly sacrificing himself to kill Doomsday. You could also infer from the way they talk about how he's doing heroic stuff all the time that he's doing heroic things all the time. Or the way he abandons his pursuit of Bruce to go save people in Mexico.

And you're COMPLETELY misreading the Ma Kent scene, and probably his whole arc. The point is that he's not sure that he's doing more good than harm. She's saying that he can't let that get to him, that he has to decide what's right.

Oh, and one final note,

Spoiler

WW isn't doing her own thing. She's in hiding. And Batman is only barely a hero these days.

My point is the movie spends waaaay more time and effort showing how he cares about one woman, and an insignificant amount of time dealing with humanity (who he's supposed to be a symbol for). So any of his heroic acts get colored by the storytelling here, he saves a woman, she's his world. As Disco points out, the

Spoiler

knightmare sequence reinforces that Lois is the only thing standing separating Superman from using his powers for evil

 

[Serpentine]

I got a little one. I want a downtown hotel mostly just for convenience.

I gotcha. Do hotels typically get fully booked in the first sale? i thought it was weird last year how i just booked a month before the con no problem

 

[Poodlestrike]

My point is the movie spends waaaay more time and effort showing how he cares about one woman, and an insignificant amount of time dealing with humanity (who he's supposed to be a symbol for). So any of his heroic acts get colored by the storytelling here, he saves a woman, she's his world. As Disco points out, the

Spoiler

knightmare sequence reinforces that Lois is the only thing standing separating Superman from using his powers for evil

I hate the Knightmare for a variety of reasons, not least of which that it's perfectly unnecessary, but it's

Spoiler

a super weird ambiguous Bad Future featuring like 15k signs of Darkseid, king of fuckery. Not sure how much of that you can take as a real sign of Supes' potential to go evil. But I really just don't think you can fairly discount his heroic acts by saying "oh, well, he doesn't have many personal connections."

 

[VanWinkle]

I'm actually really excited to watch BvS again when it comes to blu-ray.

 

[Mitch]

I'm actually really excited to watch BvS again when it comes to blu-ray.

Can't wait for the Director's Cut. Day one buy.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

My favorite pasttime is trying to see how far into nonsense I can take this and still have it be recognizable as Beesinthetrap Combover

Gotta be the fucking winner.

 

[Zombine]

What if The Flash was warning Bruce about Convergence? I mean it is fucking horrible.

Good Guy Flash.

 

[Poodlestrike]

What if The Flash was warning Bruce about Convergence? I mean it is fucking horrible.

Convergence already happened by then tho. The horror had passed.

You know what I'd like? If both companies could at least admit their competitors exist in the 'verse. I'd like to see the Red Batman gag on Daredevil, stuff like that.

 

[Discotheque]

Spiderman 2 had the Superman name drop from aunt may

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Spiderman 2 had the Superman name drop from aunt may

*1

 

[TheFlow]

Water is wet and BvsS is crap. these are things everyone should know.

also picked up the first volume of lazarus

 

[Poodlestrike]

Water is wet and BvsS is crap. these are things everyone should know.

also picked up the first volume of lazarus

no u

 

[Zombine]

If The Dark Knight takes place in our world, that means Marvel and DC comics exist. What if Bruce was a fan of Batman and decided to become Batman?

I bet Bruce was a day 1 PS3 guy and tried to justify his horrible investment by making blanket statements about how much more powerful it was than the Xbox 360, even though he knew deep down that it got the worst third party ports.

He was so sad because of Bayonetta.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Man I came in this thread to remind myself that comics were cool, I see people talking about how terrible/not terrible Batman vs Superman was

could ya'll niggas

not

 

[Zombine]

Man I came in this thread to remind myself that comics were cool, I see people talking about how terrible/not terrible Batman vs Superman was

could ya'll niggas

not

It's totally not terrible. It's better than episodes 5-8 of Daredevil season 2. It's better than Peewee on Netflix too.

They had to use tape on his face. Dude is like the Michael Jackson version of Marv from Sin City.

 

[Messi]

Man I came in this thread to remind myself that comics were cool, I see people talking about how terrible/not terrible Batman vs Superman was

could ya'll niggas

not

Comics are pretty cool. Well I like to think they are.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Comics are pretty cool. Well I like to think they are.

I think we all know comics are terrible.

Water is wet and comics are crap. These are things everyone should know.

 

[ElNarez]

when you're right you're right JC, so, in the spirit of discussion

Captain America: Sam Wilson #7 trying to cram all the pathos earlier issues in Standoff should've had was kind of a bad look

but at least it wasn't that Whedon/Cassaday feature because

yikes

 

[Mitch]

My hobbies change every 6 months or so, but comics have always been something I go back to. Comics are great, especially when you have a group of people giving great recommendations.

You guys are great. I'm a little drunk.

Reading more Batman, since I finished Saga and needed to keep this streak up.

 

[Zombine]

Wonder Woman.

Earth One.

Tuesday.

 

[tim1138]

Wonder Woman.

Earth One.

Tuesday.

Oh, are you just now reading that? ;D

 

[Messi]

Wonder Woman.

Earth One.

Tuesday.

I am excited yet apprehensive.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Oh, are you just now reading that? ;D

you can't just say this

 

[Fancy Clown]

Okay srry guys I will go back to talking about good works of fiction that feature Batman.

Finally finished rereading Morrison's run and good lord it's amazing. Liked it the first time around, loved it this time. Pretty amazing how thematically cohesive and dense he could make his story over like 5 different series, a dozen artists, a continuity reboot, and seven years of writing.

Also started Dark Knight Returns before seeing B v. S and it's awesome so far. Really interesting take on the Batman/Wayne dynamic, and great visual storytellig, cool art, and tons of great hard boiled lines. Tho I'm not a huge fan of some of the pages where it's like 20 tiny panels with a bunch of scrunched up dialgoue lines above them.

 

[my name is ed]

Man I came in this thread to remind myself that comics were cool, I see people talking about how terrible/not terrible Batman vs Superman was

could ya'll niggas

not

I read comics today *and* told people irl to read comics

 

[Messi]

I think we all know comics are terrible.

Water is wet and comics are crap. These are things everyone should know.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Wonder Woman.

Earth One.

Tuesday.

Okay srry guys I will go back to talking about good works of fiction that feature Batman.

Finally finished rereading Morrison's run and good lord it's amazing. Liked it the first time around, loved it this time. Pretty amazing how thematically cohesive and dense he could make his story over like 5 different series, a dozen artists, a continuity reboot, and seven years of writing.

Also started Dark Knight Returns before seeing B v. S and it's awesome so far. Really interesting take on the Batman/Wayne dynamic, and great visual storytellig, cool art, and tons of great hard boiled lines. Tho I'm not a huge fan of some of the pages where it's like 20 tiny panels with a bunch of scrunched up dialgoue lines above them.

I read comics today *and* told people irl to read comics

see, this is what Im talking about

 

[ElNarez]

I am excited yet apprehensive.

if that doesn't work out, we'll always have Sunstone anyway

 

[Messi]

see, this is what Im talking about

Are you buying Wonder Woman JC?

if that doesn't work out, we'll always have Sunstone anyway

Exactly

 

[Poodlestrike]

Okay srry guys I will go back to talking about good works of fiction that feature Batman.

Finally finished rereading Morrison's run and good lord it's amazing. Liked it the first time around, loved it this time. Pretty amazing how thematically cohesive and dense he could make his story over like 5 different series, a dozen artists, a continuity reboot, and seven years of writing.

Also started Dark Knight Returns before seeing B v. S and it's awesome so far. Really interesting take on the Batman/Wayne dynamic, and great visual storytellig, cool art, and tons of great hard boiled lines. Tho I'm not a huge fan of some of the pages where it's like 20 tiny panels with a bunch of scrunched up dialgoue lines above them.

Yeah, Morrison's Batman is a trip and a half. The sheer scale of it is mindboggling. This is a run that ate not one, but two line-spanning events for lunch.

 

[Serpentine]

Man I came in this thread to remind myself that comics were cool, I see people talking about how terrible/not terrible Batman vs Superman was

could ya'll niggas

not

Yeah, seriously, i'm trying to talk to Bii about hotels here

 

[TheFlow]

explain earth one and earth two to me?

 

[Poodlestrike]

explain earth one and earth two to me?

What, in general?

If you mean the titular books, they amusingly don't have much to do with eachother. The Earth One line is a series of OGNs focusing on their principle members as the only (or first) heroes in their world. At least, that's what Superman, Batman, and Teen Titans Earth One have been.

Earth 2 is a book that started with the Nu52 that focuses on... Earth 2. It's pretty good.

 

[TheFlow]

What, in general?

If you mean the titular books, they amusingly don't have much to do with eachother. The Earth One line is a series of OGNs focusing on their principle members as the only (or first) heroes in their world. At least, that's what Superman, Batman, and Teen Titans Earth One have been.

Earth 2 is a book that started with the Nu52 that focuses on... Earth 2. It's pretty good.

ahhhh that makes sense now.

 

[Zombine]

I feel so bad for telling Boogiepop to buy the Walking Dead character specials. I forgot that it's legit only like 3 pages of new material and the rest are the introductory issues. I also forgot that they give those things away for free every year during Free Comic Book Day.

I owe you like $3.