You know DC will follow suit soon.. as Market leader, Marvel will dictating the market.. that round number seem like sweet spot tbh.
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COMICS! |OT| February 2015. No ship girls. Oh, we got a Tank Girl though!
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
You know DC will follow suit soon.. as Market leader, Marvel will dictating the market.. that round number seem like sweet spot tbh.
GrandHarrier
Member
Maybe eventually. But one of the highlights of their recent retailer meeting was that a significant majority of their publishing line will remain $2.99. According to one attendee, a retailer asked if they'd raise the average book to $3.99 and when they asked those present if that's what they wanted almost every retailer said no.
evilpigking
Member
It also generally doesn't help that trades are not generally released to sync. Obviously the comic keeps going (hopefully) while the trade is hitting press and they want to give time to the singles to sell back issues but when you grab the latest trade and it is still like 5-7 issues behind. Most people don't have the foresight or desire to start buying singles like a month before they grab the last trade (especially if it is a new series and the first trade) so that they can be up to date as soon as the trade drops.
e.g. I want to read Southern Bastards I would have had to start buying the singles at issue 5 which I think came out before the first tpb. That way I'd have 1-7 at this point and be all good to continue.
That isn't a real example because it is Jason Aaron so it is a good bet it will be awesome, in this case it is because it is Image and they are bound to release a HC at some point that I'm waiting for >_>. Part of the problem.
e.g. I want to read Southern Bastards I would have had to start buying the singles at issue 5 which I think came out before the first tpb. That way I'd have 1-7 at this point and be all good to continue.
That isn't a real example because it is Jason Aaron so it is a good bet it will be awesome, in this case it is because it is Image and they are bound to release a HC at some point that I'm waiting for >_>. Part of the problem.
GrandHarrier
Member
Image is actually fairly good about trade release schedule. Often the teams take a month or so off every 6+ issues which is a perfect time for a trade to drop. But other publishers (Lol DC) not so much.
evilpigking
Member
Indeed Image has really closed the gap but their OHCs are too damn nice to pass up and I can't afford to double dip at the moment.
Marvel has actually been getting better at speeding up their TPBs as well. I think the Ms. Marvel one came out around issue 7. But then they announced an OHC at the same time >_>;.
DC is the big offender here as you stated. Ideally I'd grab the singles then wait for a nice collection like I did for most of USM but sometimes that isn't financially an option. Can't afford to drop say $30 (holding the line at 2.99! Right? Just kidding more like $40) then another $18-24 for the HC when it drops (assuming it collects 10 issues) until I get another actual job...which is a few years out if all goes well.
KoruptData
Member
My average per week for my pull list is around $30. I pull mostly DC books so my average comics per week is around 10 books. If they went up to $5 a book, that would drop my weekly average down to 6 books which would be a drop off of 14 books a month. That would be 14 less books im buying, 14 less writers/artist/inkers/colorist/letterers I'm supporting. If $5 became the norm, it would do more harm to the industry than it would help. Comics are already the highest cost of entertainment per hour out of books,video games, and movies.
Coriolanus
Banned
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I'm generally pretty satisfied with Marvel's trade release schedule. About 3 months behind on most books, with Unlimited about 3 months after. I feel like that's a decent setup depending on how much you want to pay and how you long you are okay with waiting.
At some point last year I toyed with the idea of stopping my trade-waiting and beginning to pick up singles again, but that won't happen if $4.99 becomes the standard. I'm more price-conscious than anything when it comes to comics, if it weren't for places like IST and CGN, I would probably just bite the bullet and wait for books to hit MU.
At some point last year I toyed with the idea of stopping my trade-waiting and beginning to pick up singles again, but that won't happen if $4.99 becomes the standard. I'm more price-conscious than anything when it comes to comics, if it weren't for places like IST and CGN, I would probably just bite the bullet and wait for books to hit MU.
Why wouldn't they?
Look what Image does. No ads, far better paper quality, and cheaper. Marvel has no excuse for charging more, with ads, and poor paper quality.
I know right. Some of his dialogue is sensational.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
'cept they know niggas will still buy it
"What you have to understand is that as the market leader, Marvel has to charge high dollar for its products, or fans don't feel like they're getting the full value. $4.99 is what the fans secretly want, and because they demanded, we're supplying it!"
Ennis consistently writes the best dialog in comics for over 20 years
You can't really compare the two though, the creative team decides everything on an Image book, page count, paper quality, trade dress, and I'm pretty sure they also have to cover the cost of hardcover releases themselves.
Marvel and DC are corporate entities trying to make as much money as possible on every book they publish, so if they can gouge fans with crappy paper and increasingly higher costs they will. That is entirely up to the companies and the creative teams have absolutely no say in the matter.
TetraxShards
Member
I didn't think there was ANY Marvel on Kindle, I thought they supported the Nook while DC books were on Kindle.
I wouldn't buy any of those unless you have a tablet to read them on. My Kindle is probably the best thing I own, but it's not for comics at all.
Exactly this, and it definitely won't change while Ike Perlmutter is running the ship and Marvel are consistently doing well in the charts. Unless everyone stops buying them, they'll keep doing it.
Trade waiting is killing books.
Retailers and publishers look at the sales of individual issues. It's a way for retailers to gauge interest in a book and know how much to order month to month.
If you trade wait you're basically telling retailers that you're not interested in a title and they're going to order lower numbers which eventually leads to good books getting canceled.
I know it sucks buying issue to issue but it's the best way to make sure a books you like survive and actually thrive.
The model right now sucks and really isn't helping anyone and this is coming from someone that worked in a retail comic shop and have close friends that continue to work in retail.
Retailers and publishers look at the sales of individual issues. It's a way for retailers to gauge interest in a book and know how much to order month to month.
If you trade wait you're basically telling retailers that you're not interested in a title and they're going to order lower numbers which eventually leads to good books getting canceled.
I know it sucks buying issue to issue but it's the best way to make sure a books you like survive and actually thrive.
The model right now sucks and really isn't helping anyone and this is coming from someone that worked in a retail comic shop and have close friends that continue to work in retail.
Yup, creative team covers the cost of publishing the trade.
Image is great but it's really hard if you're a small creator because you're putting up all the money yourself. Kirkman and other major creatures don't have to worry about this because their books WILL sell based on name alone.
GrandHarrier
Member
And yet it's just as easy to say that it's the fault of publishers for not accounting for the segment of the population that prefers the collected volumes and factoring them into the "health" of a book.
I would still be ok with it, when they would rise the prices for Trades about 2,3€ and give a digital copy with it.
I cant afford buying floppys, because I dont have a good comicshop in my near and would need to order them all the time and pay shipping costs. I just buy milestone issues.
Also, digital books are not longer an option since Marvel started take taxes on their books for orders from germany.
It would be just stupid, especially since the prices for trades were in the last year this insanely cheap. Due to the weak euro, prices went now a bit higher since the last preorder period started, but its still far more affordable than buying single issues.
And I cant say that I feel bad about the way I handle this.
I cant afford buying floppys, because I dont have a good comicshop in my near and would need to order them all the time and pay shipping costs. I just buy milestone issues.
Also, digital books are not longer an option since Marvel started take taxes on their books for orders from germany.
It would be just stupid, especially since the prices for trades were in the last year this insanely cheap. Due to the weak euro, prices went now a bit higher since the last preorder period started, but its still far more affordable than buying single issues.
And I cant say that I feel bad about the way I handle this.
Thing is retailers want folks coming into the shop week to week because it'll promote impulse buys and folks might check out a book they otherwise wouldn't have.
Not saying I agree with the model but it actually helps retailers when folks are coming into the shop and this is a brick & mortar business. We need healthy comic shops because they are the life and blood of this industry.
TetraxShards
Member
And that'll be the end of comics as we know it. It would be like basing the decision to keep a TV series on the air on Netflix reruns.
I guess I don't see where this massive audience that is somehow both waiting for the fourth trade of Superior Foes or whatever and not going to comic shops is coming from. I certainly don't think that audience is big enough to make up the gap between 20k cancellation-level sales and a healthy selling title.
slightconfuse
Banned
Funny enough but most image titles the money is,in the trade and not the single issues.
Its,starting to go that way for,big 2 it seems.
Jim, Zub did a great breakdown of the economics of indie comics on his blog
http://www.jimzub.com
Its,starting to go that way for,big 2 it seems.
Jim, Zub did a great breakdown of the economics of indie comics on his blog
http://www.jimzub.com
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Can anyone recommend me any comic book apparel that isn't the stuff that everyone wears?
I only got this so far.
I only got this so far.
And as much as consumers love that $9.99 price point for the first tpb volume from Image, I've seen Hickman tweet on a number of occasions how much he hates and how bad for business it is. He argued that a $12.99 price for first volumes makes much more financial sense and you wouldn't have as much sales drop offs going from $9.99 for volume 1 to $14.99 for volume 2.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
They also can afford to hire superstars.
This is why when people look to Image as industry saviors I just gotta laugh.
Well, I agree with this. It would be nice if Marvel did the same but what I really meant was "Why wouldn't Marvel put ads in if they can get away with it?"
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It would also be nice in turn if Image could put creators on a payroll so they don't have to starve for the six months between finishing their work and seeing it published.
I guess you could say they both have a lot to learn from each other?
IDW is the most under-rated of the publishers out there. I mean their run on TMNT ia establishing itself as the best comic run in TMNT, even perhaps surpassing the original Laird/Eastman run on the title.
Not to mention how they have turned cheesy 80s properties like Transformers and GI Joe into really great comics.
Cobra is the best comic no one read.
I'm kind of amazed how they've managed to fly under the radar.
I love the Popeye stuff they put out and The Cape wasn't horrible.
The current model totally needs to change but I don't think anyone has a real game plan on how to do it.
Current system doesn't work for creators and it doesn't work for consumers.
Having random discussion with folks on the retail side and everyone knows a bust is coming and it won't be pretty. It's just not sustainable anymore. It drives me insane because brick & mortar stores are so important and folks just aren't getting how hard it is to run a comic shop these days.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Graphitti Designs has a nice selection of DC related shirts. Other than that, pretty much all of my shirts are from just random stores and booths at comic conventions.
Yeah IDW is pretty great. TMNT and Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye are excellent comics. My only complaint is that their trades are very pricey for what's in them-- they end up being more than the individual issues.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
I'll continue buying trade paperbacks at conventions for 3 for $10 thank you very much.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Nothing like finding a trade for dirt cheap at a booth and then going online and seeing the Out of Print prices for it later on.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The Kipps of the world stay killin this industry
I have very little knowledge of inner publisher politics, so I'm going to say... yes? It sucks that Image creators get treated badly when they're starting out if that's the case.
Edit: Going back to repping my MyNameIsEd avatar now that Squirrel Girl week is over.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It's hard but not impossible. You could say I'm the Isak Borg of LCSes. I know a few bros doing the work.
It isn't that Image treats them "badly". Image doesn't hire writers or artists or anything. There is really no such thing as "Image creators". They are just a vehicle to publish creator owned work. They don't come up with any of the material themselves. The creators hire all the staff they need themselves, determine print runs, paper quality, release schedule, etc. Image is just a middle man. They don't own any of it. Technically Vaughn could switch Saga over to Marvel or DC mid-run if he so desired.
Dark Horse and the other small guys still act like typical publishers, they hire writers, come up with concepts, determine when to release things, etc. Image just publishes whatever creators come to them with and the creators take on all the responsibility but maintain 100% ownership as well.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Thanks boo.
Coriolanus
Banned
Complaining about trade waiters seems superfluous. Obviously you will not be able to change the minds of consumers as easily as you can change your business model. This was a harsh lesson that the music industry eventually learned and most of the film rental industry died before they learned.
This is a service problem, and as such, it falls upon the service provider to come up with a solution. Or die.
I, for one, welcome our future Digital Delivery subscription overlords.
As for small artists having a difficult start, that's what webcomics are for nowadays.
This is a service problem, and as such, it falls upon the service provider to come up with a solution. Or die.
I, for one, welcome our future Digital Delivery subscription overlords.
As for small artists having a difficult start, that's what webcomics are for nowadays.
There is a very thriving zine/self published scene that is really thriving.
CMX Submit is also an interesting model but not sure if people are actually paying attention to what is released on that platform.
Not sure if web comics dilute your brand and create expectations of free content from your audience. Still debating in my head how I feel about the whole free web comic thing.
Coriolanus
Banned
Look towards the indie music scene, and you`ll have your answer.
Then again, the parallel kinda falls apart due to the concert/convention difference.
Anyway, when you making shit money and have no name, exposure can't harm.
The zine bit can morph to be more reliant on kickstarter models, but that is dependent on already having some online presence. Hrm.
my name is ed
Banned
Have you ever picked up an Archaia comic? Those dudes really care about presentation. Everything image does well in that regard, Archaia does better.
I would agree with that point. The market is changing, and as a publisher you have to recognize it. Publishers shouldnt complain about people buying their books...
Which is crazy, right? Considering they are the 2nd cheapest to produce. This is why I like dense writing in comics. Fraction touched on this in a bit in an interview about Hawkeye. He said that more panels tends to make people feel they get more out of their comic even if the amount of dialogue is the same.
This would be a welcome change and a good step for Image to make in the future. It's kind of crazy that Image makes the same amount of money on Walking Dead as it does on any of its smaller titles. It's nice for some, but the publisher could do better if they let themselves invest more into their books and actually reap the rewards of their popularity rather than just be a publisher of quality books.
GrandHarrier
Member
Who are we going to become comic groupies for?
GrandHarrier
Member
I'd like to imagine you at a Con would be going down the rows, booth by booth, telling each creator what it is they've done to disappoint you.
And then giving them a random rating.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
listening to my idolm@ster music while reading Avengers in my bed
#justlittletyrantravethings
#justlittletyrantravethings
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
The only successful-enough-to-still-stay-open comic shops I've seen, outside of the mega-ones like Forbidden Planet and Midtown Comics, have to hock every other form of collectible to stay afloat, and then some. My old shop had to convert half of its space into a fucking longboard shop and had a bootleg as Blockbuster system where you could "rent" games and dvds. The comics weren't making the shop any cash.